Energy 2.0: The Anti-4 To Win And A Bit Of Balancing

[geninrising]

My suggestion:

 

Only for ultimates :

 

If the ability is repeatedly casted within a certain time, the power of the ability will keep decreasing unless another interval has been passed.The time interval will increase every time the ultimate is recasted within the time.

 

EG: Let's say the initial time interval is 20 seconds.  And let's use Radial Javelin (RJ) as an example.

 

If RJ is recasted within 20 seconds at one point, this time all the effect of it will have a 10% reduction. (Damage, range, and stun effects if there is any etc) Also, the next time interval become 25 seconds.

 

If RJ is recasted again within the next 25 seconds. all the effects of it will deducted by 30 %, and the interval for next time will become 30. And this repeat. The minimum cap of the ability could get is 70% reduction.

 

If RJ is not recasted with in the time interval, it is reset to normal - 100% full strength in all perspective and the time interval will be reset to 20 again.

 

The initial time interval can be adjusted according to the nature of the ultimate / skills eg. RJ could be 20 s, while Vauban's vortex could be 15s due to it's nature and effects' different. (just my interpretation) Abilities like Catalysm may have no limited time interval as it cannot be recast while in effect and hence cannot be spammed.

 

--

 

Alternatively, if reducing power of abilities is not preferable, it can be Increasing energy cost. eg. +10 %  ...+ 30% (OF the maximum energy / the original energy cost  ie do not affected by streamline etc) if recasted within time interval. So ultimately the ultimate will always cost 100% energy to cast if repeatedly casting within time interval

 

Note: I don't suggest it to be applied on survival / interception / excavation etc missions due to the nature of those missions.

 

For defense, I think the time interval can be reset in every new wave. (NOT every 5 waves)

This I can get behind however multiple variations of this system would need to be implemented for various ults that only use range as a concern versus power(speaking of loki specifically).

 

Also I would add an extra feature that I have seen some here espouse. Using other abilities lowers the cooldown on the ult. This would allow players whose builds are built for the ult to have a way to get it back faster and allow those that want to use their weapons time to do so.

 

The idea about increasing energy loophole I think could potentially still be exploited due to Energy Vamp and energy restores with your last suggestion. However, in your last suggestion that idea might work if total energy possible was reduced to a cap limit. Currently frames like Loki Prime and Nova Prime have way too much energy for increasing energy costs to effect in the slightest.

[Azawarau]

The powers are fine how they are. If I wanted a different system, i'd play another game.

North Korea is fine how it is

 

If i didnt want to live under a dictatorship id risk my life and the lives of my family, who surely will be placed in concentration camps when its discovered that i ran away, to go to another country

 

Makes sense to me

[Temmron]

hmm to be honest I dont and probably never will see the problem about people that only press 4 2t win.

I allways use 2-3 powers of my warframe and to be honest the new warframes have a lot better synergy with their skills than old ones.

Mesa has 4 usefull abilities so I use all 4 in my gameplay.

Limbo depends on his 2,3,4

Hydroid can have amazing synergy if played right. puddle to heal allies 4 to dmg while healing 2 to cleanse your allies

Zephyr can fly dive bomb tornado and shield. all skills are usefull

Novas portal is usefull for transportation and her 2 and 4 are amazing together

etc.etc.

 

The only frames that come into my mind where press 4 to win is a thing are excal/saryn/ember

Thats is mainly because they dont have high utility 1 2 3 skills and their 4 is a dmg nuke

 

We dont really have a press 4 to win issue, we have a farming issue that utilizes high dmg nuke tactics and missing utility on some frames

In my opinion excal needs new skills not just a rework but a rework 2.0 same as ember and saryn. 

[Azawarau]

hmm to be honest I dont and probably never will see the problem about people that only press 4 2t win.

I allways use 2-3 powers of my warframe and to be honest the new warframes have a lot better synergy with their skills than old ones.

Mesa has 4 usefull abilities so I use all 4 in my gameplay.

Limbo depends on his 2,3,4

Hydroid can have amazing synergy if played right. puddle to heal allies 4 to dmg while healing 2 to cleanse your allies

Zephyr can fly dive bomb tornado and shield. all skills are usefull

Novas portal is usefull for transportation and her 2 and 4 are amazing together

etc.etc.

 

The only frames that come into my mind where press 4 to win is a thing are excal/saryn/ember

Thats is mainly because they dont have high utility 1 2 3 skills and their 4 is a dmg nuke

 

We dont really have a press 4 to win issue, we have a farming issue that utilizes high dmg nuke tactics and missing utility on some frames

In my opinion excal needs new skills not just a rework but a rework 2.0 same as ember and saryn. 

Nova,Mirage,Mesa and more

[inappropriatename5818]

My suggestion:

 

Only for ultimates :

 

If the ability is repeatedly casted within a certain time, the power of the ability will keep decreasing unless another interval has been passed.The time interval will increase every time the ultimate is recasted within the time.

 

EG: Let's say the initial time interval is 20 seconds.  And let's use Radial Javelin (RJ) as an example.

 

If RJ is recasted within 20 seconds at one point, this time all the effect of it will have a 10% reduction. (Damage, range, and stun effects if there is any etc) Also, the next time interval become 25 seconds.

 

If RJ is recasted again within the next 25 seconds. all the effects of it will deducted by 30 %, and the interval for next time will become 30. And this repeat. The minimum cap of the ability could get is 70% reduction.

 

If RJ is not recasted with in the time interval, it is reset to normal - 100% full strength in all perspective and the time interval will be reset to 20 again.

 

The initial time interval can be adjusted according to the nature of the ultimate / skills eg. RJ could be 20 s, while Vauban's vortex could be 15s due to it's nature and effects' different. (just my interpretation) Abilities like Catalysm may have no limited time interval as it cannot be recast while in effect and hence cannot be spammed.

 

--

 

Alternatively, if reducing power of abilities is not preferable, it can be Increasing energy cost. eg. +10 %  ...+ 30% (OF the maximum energy / the original energy cost  ie do not affected by streamline etc) if recasted within time interval. So ultimately the ultimate will always cost 100% energy to cast if repeatedly casting within time interval

 

Note: I don't suggest it to be applied on survival / interception / excavation etc missions due to the nature of those missions.

 

For defense, I think the time interval can be reset in every new wave. (NOT every 5 waves)

 

 

You're basically giving it a cooldown. Stop trying to get abilities nerfed, it's what the game is about. If you want to wait 20 seconds between javelins be my guest, wait, but don't screw over other people that like spamming abilities.

[SteavewithanA]

Instead of changing the game to suit your playstyle and eliminating the playstyle of others why not use the tools and resources at your disposal to find a like minded group of players to play with? Add each other to your friends list. Start a clan for those that are against spamming powers. Create a thread in recruiting to gather a list of players who share your mindset that want to play in a similar manner as you. Form random groups in recruiting and specify no ability spam. There is no reason to invalidate to playstyle of others just so they conform to yours. More choice not less. Everyone wins.

[Temmron]

Nova,Mirage,Mesa and more

lol mirages 1 and 3 are amazing for dps output and almost everyone uses it

Novas portal as already said is nice for transportation and antimatter drop with or without antimatter absorb augment does amazing damage later on and is used frequently by GOOD players.

Mesas 2 and 3 are awesome for damage reduction 1 is good for taking down big units and 4 is an oh-S#&$ button with heavy drawbacks which even DISCOURAGE 4 to win (shoot only 2 at a time and cant move)

 

Your argument is practically invalid, Its not warframes fault you only farm defense all day or that you play with players that dont know how good and important other skills then 4 are

Edited January 11, 2015 by Seyenas

[Mokkania]

Your argument is practically invalid, Its not warframes fault you only farm defense all day or that you play with players that dont know how good and important other skills then 4 are

don't know for what he said and I agree with what you say about certain players doing things properly

but if the game intuitively make people go to spam 4 it means what it means.

And if it's related to the energy system, it's what this thread is about.

[AlphaHorseman]

If you don't want to use your powers, you know what you have to do? You just have to have the physical ability to not use those abilities. There, problem solved, voila. You don't get somehow annoyed by having your powers available to you, and the people that like using their powers can continue to use their powers.

Edited January 11, 2015 by AlphaHorseman

[Jeigo]

If you don't want to use your powers, you know what you have to do? You just have to have the physical ability to not use those abilities. There, problem solved, voila. You don't get somehow annoyed by having your powers available to you, and the people that like using their powers can continue to use their powers.

What happens when those two people play together? We can't divide the community now can we?

 

On topic, I don't think the point of the overall 'power spam' discussion is about favoring one side or the other but about introducing a comprimise with alternative methods of regulating powers. Not all of the suggestions are even 'nerfs' as they openly recommend adding compensation for the reduction of 'spammability', if you will.  Also, clearly if powers were 'fine' the community would not be so divided on the matter. The devs themselves have openly voiced where they stand on the matter despite them being the ones responsible for the situation. Further, we already have certain abilities that work well with cooldowns such as rhino stomp, where you can 'skip' the cd if you kill all the enemies affected but can't continually spam the ability otherwise(I don't support cooldowns, but they can and are working in the present warframe). 2015 is dubbed the year of quality, and I'm hoping a more thought out approach to abilities is at the top of their list.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Jeigo

[Jeetza]

North Korea is fine how it is

 

If i didnt want to live under a dictatorship id risk my life and the lives of my family, who surely will be placed in concentration camps when its discovered that i ran away, to go to another country

 

Makes sense to me

Nice job comparing a video game to a dictatorship, makes COMPLETE sense.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Jeetza

[Azawarau]

lol mirages 1 and 3 are amazing for dps output and almost everyone uses it

Novas portal as already said is nice for transportation and antimatter drop with or without antimatter absorb augment does amazing damage later on and is used frequently by GOOD players.

Mesas 2 and 3 are awesome for damage reduction 1 is good for taking down big units and 4 is an oh-S#&$ button with heavy drawbacks which even DISCOURAGE 4 to win (shoot only 2 at a time and cant move)

 

Your argument is practically invalid, Its not warframes fault you only farm defense all day or that you play with players that dont know how good and important other skills then 4 are

Mirages 1 and 3 have nothing to do with whether or not her 4 is a press 4 to win power

 

Novas 2 and 3 have nothing to do with whether or not her 4 is a press 4 to win power

 

Mesas 2 and 3 have nothing to do with whether or not her 4 is a press 4 to win power

 

Youve ironically defined an invalid argument

 

And then you jump on the assumption that i spam defenses all day with bad players with nothing to back it up

 

Trash talk isnt getting you anywhere

 

Novas 4 reduces enemy damage output to 25% alone. Their ability to react to anything is reduced to near nothing as well

 

Mirage can effectively kill kill and CC enemies on a ridiculous range on top of having a high ability to avoid being hit

 

Mesa can use her 4 to play the game for her and destroy enemies easily with minimal player input

 

When she isnt doing that shes face tanking enemies

[SteavewithanA]

What happens when those two people play together? We can't divide the community now can we?

Yes you can. There will always be people with different play styles. Some want to play one way and some another. There is absolutely nothing wrong in having a community divided amongst preference. The "play how I want" group wants to invalidate and remove the play style of the "press 4 to win" group. This is a problem. The p42w group doesn't care how you play and are perfectly content if you don't use a single ability. They are not advocating for the game to be changed to better suit their personal preference. If anything they want there to be freedom for each to choose how to play.If anyone cares enough about how someone else plays or wants them to only play the way they think the game should be played, regardless of where they fall in the spectrum of play styles, then they should put in just a little effort to find like minded individuals to play with instead of advocating for the game to be changed to suit their style and remove the style of another thereby eliminating individual choice and freedom.

[geninrising]

Yes you can. There will always be people with different play styles. Some want to play one way and some another. There is absolutely nothing wrong in having a community divided amongst preference. The "play how I want" group wants to invalidate and remove the play style of the "press 4 to win" group. This is a problem. The p42w group doesn't care how you play and are perfectly content if you don't use a single ability. They are not advocating for the game to be changed to better suit their personal preference. If anything they want there to be freedom for each to choose how to play.If anyone cares enough about how someone else plays or wants them to only play the way they think the game should be played, regardless of where they fall in the spectrum of play styles, then they should put in just a little effort to find like minded individuals to play with instead of advocating for the game to be changed to suit their style and remove the style of another thereby eliminating individual choice and freedom.

To clarify a point made by DE Themselves the p42w group is utilizing an energy loophole that they are in the process of figuring out a resolution to. That is not a playstyle intended by the dev's so much as an exploit. Therefore you will either get the nukes nerfed or the energy usage system itself nerfed so you had best get on one bandwagon or the other prior to the fix rather than just blindly defending that way of playing or else you will have only complaints and not an actual voice should de view various feedback threads on here for a potential fix.

 

As a point you may want to look deeper into, the majority of players I have seen ask for balance and a change to how powers work or how the energy system functions. The vocal minority thus far supports p42win and as far as I have seen the only ones advocating fairness and balance are the ones asking for change, while the majority of p42w advocates simply scream NO at the top of their lungs and become derisive or insulting to the others.

 

Which do you honestly think a business will listen to?

[Kruglov]

Yet another poorly thought out giant blanket nerf for all frames because a few frames out of the 22 we have have annoying powers.

Rather than fixing the few abilities which trivialize content....lets just trivialize all the spells instead.

 

 

Abilities are half of the game and they don't need to be nerfed out of use. This is ridiculous.

 

No support. -1

 

And this.

 

If you want to fix Warframe, fix the abusive abilities on an individual basis.

 

Stop trying to turn this game into Tribes where everything is guns and speed only.

[SteavewithanA]

To clarify a point made by DE Themselves the p42w group is utilizing an energy loophole that they are in the process of figuring out a resolution to. That is not a playstyle intended by the dev's so much as an exploit. Therefore you will either get the nukes nerfed or the energy usage system itself nerfed so you had best get on one bandwagon or the other prior to the fix rather than just blindly defending that way of playing or else you will have only complaints and not an actual voice should de view various feedback threads on here for a potential fix.

 

As a point you may want to look deeper into, the majority of players I have seen ask for balance and a change to how powers work or how the energy system functions. The vocal minority thus far supports p42win and as far as I have seen the only ones advocating fairness and balance are the ones asking for change, while the majority of p42w advocates simply scream NO at the top of their lungs and become derisive or insulting to the others.

 

Which do you honestly think a business will listen to?

If ability spam is not intended then DE is the most short sighted dev I have ever come across. They have absolutely no idea of the mechanics their game is built on. They just released Primed Flow, Large Team Energy Restores, Syndicate weapons with Entropy and Blight effects, both of which restore 25% of maximum energy upon gaining a measly 2000 affinity. Ability spam may be something they "say" they don't want but looking at recent items their actions speak otherwise.

 

Using game mechanics as they were designed is not an exploit. In any way. Shortsighted development? Debatable. But not an exploit.

 

I will get on neither bandwagon. I support having the freedom to chose how to play and don't wish for anyone else to conform to my idea of what should be done.

 

From what I see on the forums, which is not the majority of the player base, it seems to be the same handful of people on both sides of the argument. I have never encountered anyone in game that has expressed a concern with it during any of the 1000's of missions I have done. Not once.

[7grims]

Abilities are half of the game and they don't need to be nerfed out of use. This is ridiculous.

 

No support. -1

 

AGREE +1

 

Back in the days nova was a problem and really needed a nerf this made allot of sense

Nowadays frames and weapons get picked by the devs almost randomly, and get buff/nerfs that also feel random, we end up with broken gear that make you feel that frame/weapon is no longer good.

 

If the devs were doing a good job on the nerf/buff works I would support more balancing changes, but after exca, trin, and braton prime destruction, i feel like these treads need to calm down.

[climatiseur]

You're basically giving it a cooldown. Stop trying to get abilities nerfed, it's what the game is about. If you want to wait 20 seconds between javelins be my guest, wait, but don't screw over other people that like spamming abilities.

 

You can still spam the hell out you like, it is not like disabling the casting

 

Screw the people who like spamming powers huh, and spamming powers just screw the other players in your team who prefer not spamming it.

 

 

 

If you don't want to use your powers, you know what you have to do? You just have to have the physical ability to not use those abilities. There, problem solved, voila. You don't get somehow annoyed by having your powers available to you, and the people that like using their powers can continue to use their powers.

It's not like "we want to wait, so we suggest it."

 

It's like we want the game be better, so we suggest it.

 

And spamming players are "we like spamming abilities. and we don't care how is this game like and how other players' feeling. We just like the thrill."

 

Instead of changing the game to suit your playstyle and eliminating the playstyle of others why not use the tools and resources at your disposal to find a like minded group of players to play with? Add each other to your friends list. Start a clan for those that are against spamming powers. Create a thread in recruiting to gather a list of players who share your mindset that want to play in a similar manner as you. Form random groups in recruiting and specify no ability spam. There is no reason to invalidate to playstyle of others just so they conform to yours. More choice not less. Everyone wins.

So I see you notice the spamming players are affecting the other non-spamming players ingame, and solution is that the non-spamming players should compromise and spend more time finding their like-minded to play, while the spammers can freely spamming their abilities all day long without making effort to be more considerate, while at the same time make it the other players' FAULT.

 

Well played.

 

Why not the more affecting ones find their own like-mind spammers and spams throughout the game they want?

 

All in all, spamming is a Problem, not play style.   Don't use PLAYSTYLE as an excuses to hinder the improvement of a game.

 

But I do agree on some replies that, it's some power should be  fixed to a more appropriate version. (And there comes the people who say don't touch the ability, duh)

[AlphaHorseman]

Yes you can. There will always be people with different play styles. Some want to play one way and some another. There is absolutely nothing wrong in having a community divided amongst preference. The "play how I want" group wants to invalidate and remove the play style of the "press 4 to win" group. This is a problem. The p42w group doesn't care how you play and are perfectly content if you don't use a single ability. They are not advocating for the game to be changed to better suit their personal preference. If anything they want there to be freedom for each to choose how to play.If anyone cares enough about how someone else plays or wants them to only play the way they think the game should be played, regardless of where they fall in the spectrum of play styles, then they should put in just a little effort to find like minded individuals to play with instead of advocating for the game to be changed to suit their style and remove the style of another thereby eliminating individual choice and freedom.

 

If ability spam is not intended then DE is the most short sighted dev I have ever come across. They have absolutely no idea of the mechanics their game is built on. They just released Primed Flow, Large Team Energy Restores, Syndicate weapons with Entropy and Blight effects, both of which restore 25% of maximum energy upon gaining a measly 2000 affinity. Ability spam may be something they "say" they don't want but looking at recent items their actions speak otherwise.

 

Using game mechanics as they were designed is not an exploit. In any way. Shortsighted development? Debatable. But not an exploit.

 

I will get on neither bandwagon. I support having the freedom to chose how to play and don't wish for anyone else to conform to my idea of what should be done.

 

From what I see on the forums, which is not the majority of the player base, it seems to be the same handful of people on both sides of the argument. I have never encountered anyone in game that has expressed a concern with it during any of the 1000's of missions I have done. Not once.

You, I like you, you get it. +1 from me.

[AlphaHorseman]

You can still spam the hell out you like, it is not like disabling the casting

 

Screw the people who like spamming powers huh, and spamming powers just screw the other players in your team who prefer not spamming it.

 

 

 

It's not like "we want to wait, so we suggest it."

 

It's like we want the game be better, so we suggest it.

 

And spamming players are "we like spamming abilities. and we don't care how is this game like and how other players' feeling. We just like the thrill."

 

So I see you notice the spamming players are affecting the other non-spamming players ingame, and solution is that the non-spamming players should compromise and spend more time finding their like-minded to play, while the spammers can freely spamming their abilities all day long without making effort to be more considerate, while at the same time make it the other players' FAULT.

 

Well played.

 

Why not the more affecting ones find their own like-mind spammers and spams throughout the game they want?

 

All in all, spamming is a Problem, not play style.   Don't use PLAYSTYLE as an excuses to hinder the improvement of a game.

 

But I do agree on some replies that, it's some power should be  fixed to a more appropriate version. (And there comes the people who say don't touch the ability, duh)

Don't go shoving words into people's mouth.

 

We mean exactly what we say how we say it. You have options, you have choice, you have the capability to make those choices, so make them. You can do as you wish, play as you play, and enjoy as you will. That does not give you the right to take away choice and the ability for people to play how they want to play, simply because you think its some backwards way of saying "we want the game to be better."

 

You think that spamming powers isn't a play style, well that's good for you. That doesn't mean others think it isn't, and if they want to spam their powers and be space wizards, then good for them. You can choose how you want to play, and go and play as you want to play. Hurting powers isn't a way for you to be able to choose your play style, you already can do that. Hurting powers just serves to hurt people who like using their powers.

 

If you want to play with people who play like you, then you say so and you go and find those people. You don't implement system wide changes that affect the entire community. 

[SteavewithanA]

 

 

 

So I see you notice the spamming players are affecting the other non-spamming players ingame, and solution is that the non-spamming players should compromise and spend more time finding their like-minded to play, while the spammers can freely spamming their abilities all day long without making effort to be more considerate, while at the same time make it the other players' FAULT.

 

Well played.

 

Why not the more affecting ones find their own like-mind spammers and spams throughout the game they want?

 

All in all, spamming is a Problem, not play style.   Don't use PLAYSTYLE as an excuses to hinder the improvement of a game.

 

But I do agree on some replies that, it's some power should be  fixed to a more appropriate version. (And there comes the people who say don't touch the ability, duh)

The thing here mate is that the non spammers are the ones demanding the game change so the the other group cant play the way they want. No one is coming here and telling you how to play. YOU are telling someone else how to play. You have the problem. Not them. If you have the problem do as I suggested and find like minded individuals to play with. I have seen this attitude in so many MMO's and coop games. One group doesn't like how another plays so they whine and complain that the game be changed to suit them. Meanwhile the other group goes on playing how they want demanding nothing. They don't tell the others to play like them. They don't have a problem. They are enjoying the game in its current state, the way the devs designed it. If there was truly enough people who felt the same way as you then they should have no problem finding groups of LIKE MINDED people to play with. Those that want to play the game in the same manner and derive enjoyment from the same thing. If every group you get in is filled with people who don't play the way you want then you are in the minority.

 

I'll use myself as an example. When I played MMOs and had the time to dedicate to top tier progression raiding I was  one of those guys who enjoyed getting things done in the most efficient way possible. I'm usually not one for "casual" play, I don't think down on people who want to play that way, but it's just not my style. So instead of demanding that everyone run meta group comps with meta builds I join top tier progression guilds and fill my friends list with those that I meet that share the same mindset as me. If I join some public game on the star chart I expect random. I go with the flow of the group I join. If I don't like the way they are playing then I leave. Simple as that. On the rare occasion I run with a random key group from recruit I expect just that. Random. If I don't like the group comp or get annoyed that the Loki in my squad is running a duration build instead of a range disarm build in T4 Survival I leave. I don't let the way others play ruin my gaming experience. And I sure as hell don't demand the game be changed to suit my way of playing.

Edited January 12, 2015 by SteavewithanA

[geninrising]

T

 

Don't go shoving words into people's mouth.

 

We mean exactly what we say how we say it. You have options, you have choice, you have the capability to make those choices, so make them. You can do as you wish, play as you play, and enjoy as you will. That does not give you the right to take away choice and the ability for people to play how they want to play, simply because you think its some backwards way of saying "we want the game to be better."

 

You think that spamming powers isn't a play style, well that's good for you. That doesn't mean others think it isn't, and if they want to spam their powers and be space wizards, then good for them. You can choose how you want to play, and go and play as you want to play. Hurting powers isn't a way for you to be able to choose your play style, you already can do that. Hurting powers just serves to hurt people who like using their powers.

 

If you want to play with people who play like you, then you say so and you go and find those people. You don't implement system wide changes that affect the entire community. 

 

The thing here mate is that the non spammers are the ones demanding the game change so the the other group cant play the way they want. No one is coming here and telling you how to play. YOU are telling someone else how to play. You have the problem. Not them. If you have the problem do as I suggested and find like minded individuals to play with. I have seen this attitude in so many MMO's and coop games. One group doesn't like how another plays so they whine and complain that the game be changed to suit them. Meanwhile the other group goes on playing how they want demanding nothing. They don't tell the others to play like them. They don't have a problem. They are enjoying the game in its current state, the way the devs designed it. If there was truly enough people who felt the same way as you then they should have no problem finding groups of LIKE MINDED people to play with. Those that want to play the game in the same manner and derive enjoyment from the same thing. If every group you get in is filled with people who don't play the way you want then you are in the minority.

 

I'll use myself as an example. When I played MMOs and had the time to dedicate to top tier progression raiding I was  one of those guys who enjoyed getting things done in the most efficient way possible. I'm usually not one for "casual" play, I don't think down on people who want to play that way, but it's just not my style. So instead of demanding that everyone run meta group comps with meta builds I join top tier progression guilds and fill my friends list with those that I meet that share the same mindset as me. If I join some public game on the star chart I expect random. I go with the flow of the group I join. If I don't like the way they are playing then I leave. Simple as that. On the rare occasion I run with a random key group from recruit I expect just that. Random. If I don't like the group comp or get annoyed that the Loki in my squad is running a duration build instead of a range disarm build in T4 Survival I leave. I don't let the way others play ruin my gaming experience. And I sure as hell don't demand the game be changed to suit my way of playing.

 

The problem with BOTH of your arguments is you are doing the exact same thing as everyone asking for the change except our way just simply wants balance which is for the benefit of the game.

 

We claim spammers are invalidating our playstyle taking away our choices.

You claim we are trying to take away your choices.

 

You claim you are doing as intended.

DE claims it is not intended and anyone that does it is exploiting a loophole.

 

You claim we should play solo or go recruiting people to play our way.

Wait a sec, we never told you to go to a hole somewhere and not be able to play in pugs.

 

So how about the Spammer recruit people who are okay with p42w as they are clearly the issue?

After all it's not melee or gun users ruining the fun in peoples games.

 

Shouldn't it be THEIR burden as a consequence for exploitation of the system in place?

[AlphaHorseman]

T

 

 

 

The problem with BOTH of your arguments is you are doing the exact same thing as everyone asking for the change except our way just simply wants balance which is for the benefit of the game.

 

We claim spammers are invalidating our playstyle taking away our choices.

You claim we are trying to take away your choices.

 

You claim you are doing as intended.

DE claims it is not intended and anyone that does it is exploiting a loophole.

 

You claim we should play solo or go recruiting people to play our way.

Wait a sec, we never told you to go to a hole somewhere and not be able to play in pugs.

 

So how about the Spammer recruit people who are okay with p42w as they are clearly the issue?

After all it's not melee or gun users ruining the fun in peoples games.

 

Shouldn't it be THEIR burden as a consequence for exploitation of the system in place?

You are telling people "we will change how you play because we think it is better for you and the game" when we're saying "Play like how you wanna play, and we'll play like how we wanna play." The only problem I see here is that you're trying to force people to play a certain way, and yet we are telling you that should never be the case. I don't know how this isn't getting through to you, but all we're saying is that you can play as how you want, and be happy with it. We will do the same. If you don't like how some people play, that doesn't give you the right to change it.

 

You're going to run into people you like and you don't when it comes to pugs, that's the nature of pugs. That doesn't mean you need them to play the game your way, nor they force you to play the game their way. If you want to play with people who play like you, caster or gunner, you can go out and find those people through recruiting. But DON'T expect everyone in a PUG match to play like how you play, and DON'T tell them that they should play like how you play. You'll meet people with like minded play styles, and people who have different, but you shouldn't force a system wide change simply because people have different play styles from you.

 

DE is DE, you're not their voice, don't try to be, because you are falling flat with it.

 

If you go to recruiting and want certain people, then ask for them. It isn't an "issue" to ask for people who want to play like how you play, or have complementary styles of play to yours. What is an "issue" is when people think they should be able to force a certain mentality on others simply because the mentality is not their own. I've seen people complain about the guy with the Quanta or the guy with the Boltor Prime killing everything in sight, essentially your argument about "sapping the fun out of the game" so don't you dare try that argument with me and guns. Should those guns be nerfed? No, they function as intended and do their jobs well.

 

Using powers is exploiting the system? Oh gosh hand me a glass of whatever concoction of "reason" you're drinking.

 

There are already ways to which the game hampers powers. Eximi and Nullifiers are prime examples.

[Chaosdreamer]

We already got to many nerf for power , I did'nt read the whole thing anyway

 

Do you know why people use 4 instead of 1-2-3 ? Because it's simple the best to use ,the only that using every skill is probably Trinity but she eat all kind of nerf

 

Also , just think most of frame is this way 1 = Buff or attack 2 & 3 support or buff 4 = attack 

 

Let's take few frame : Mesa , Volt , Rhino , Nova , Trinity (could add others but I'm lazy...)

 

If you look at Mesa : People don't use 1 : reason ? to weak , They use 2 for buff , 3 to stay alive , 4 to massive killing

 

Rhino : 1 used to rush (you won't see any rhino doing it to damage stuff so) , 2 to stay alive , 3 to buff , 4 It's used to be killing now it's more to put them in stasis

 

Nova : 1 : Damage (but you need to refresh often so less used) 2 Damage ,but also support since now it can absorb bullet almost can say to stay alive - 3 well teleport support , 4 you hate it mass killing over nerfed

 

Volt : 1 attack , to weak gotta use alot... 2- Buff you love speed - 3 shield you need to stay alive 4-pinata mod , you kill stuff but you stay in one spot (ok it used to be worse)

 

Trinity , 1-2-3-4 Buff & support 

 

Now I could continue with others but it's same thing , If people does not find usefull one  skill they won't use it , if they feel that they need to use alot to get it working well, samething they wont use it

[SageBanshee]

A super bar would be very limiting to warframes, and destroy some warframes ability to t4 grind. And since I am against nerfing, I say buff. Abilities are meant to be spammed. My main dislike is how some frame abilities are not worth spamming and, as a result, players spam their strongest ability. Let me break down some math.

Abilities are cast at the energy cost of 25/50/75/100. For the concept of balancing, an abilities usefulness is decided by its overall effectiveness and the price used to cast it. Effectiveness, which is the main thing in question, is decided by cast time, ease of use, and an effect worthy of being used. The effects of abilities include damage, CC, evasive utility, stealth, and so forth. Now to get a little deeper into it.

An ability that costs 25 energy should be easy to use. The problem with many abilities is that they have to be directly aimed at enemies and refuse to cast until they are. Most do not do enough damage to be worth This is a line of sight limitation that makes many low level abilities hard to use, which decreases their overall usefulness. While not a big deal to some players, others find this a bad constraint and just decide that the ability is not worth using when others are much easier.

An ability that costs 25 and is cast four times should be just as effective, if not more so, as one cast of a 100 cost ability, presuming it is of the same effect type. It should be that the effect is a little more useful since casting four abilities takes more time and keeps players constantly using it for its full effect.

Abilities that synergize with melee and ranged weapons are my personal favorite. Mirage's hall of mirrors and volt's shield ability are prime examples of that. however there also needs to be a balance between gun usefulness and abilities. Most good weapons do high dps to single target enemies, and all for the cost of a little ammo. Abilities that deal damage to single targets, however, are quite lacking when compared to their gun counterpart and drain precious energy. An ability that specializes in single target damage should be more effective than guns or players will not use them.

Just about every warframe has an ability that is relatively obsolete. Dive bomb, flame blast, psionic bolt, and hallowed ground are all worthy mentions of abilities that need some changing in order to be used more. This does not mean to create a mod to add on what the ability should already do in the first place. Nobody should have to pay use mad slots to turn a bad ability into something actually worth using. This is all for now.