Hosting Causes Drastic Increase Of Enemy Accuracy - Please Read, De

[Azawarau]

Were you a host or client?

The run specifically that i was referring to i hosted

[Bipp]

The run specifically that i was referring to i hosted

Well almost all enemies in the void don't have hitscan weapons. And assuming you were hosting others in T4D I'm guessing the enemies didn't often have the chance to get close enough to deal damage. But I could be wrong.

[Thaumatos]

Hosts definitely get plastered in comparison to clients.

 

I can't tell you how many crowds of Grineer I can stand in on Kiste and let them shoot me as a client.  It's like a completely different difficulty level.  When I host a game in Mercury, I can actually die.

 

It's not just accuracy, they're shooting faster too.  I dunno if it's based on frame rate or what.  They friggin shoot so fast as a host, and my frame rate is usually over 200.

[Aratir]

This is easily seen if you use mesa with her armor that bounces back bullers, and you can see that the enemies headshot you from over very long distances. Maybe DE trying to say that everyone can aimbot and wallhack now.......

[Bipp]

Can we take a moment and say that the ultimate pestering bug of Warframe, also known as the Stalker has superb accuracy as well ?

And I'm not talking about normal stuff, he can bend his dread arrows better than Beckham, I kid you not.

I was expecting him to pop up behind me one day(usual stuff), he instead popped up infront of me and I decided to leave him at the mercy of 2 incoming Grineer platoons. It was in Ceres where both the grineer and Stalker-chan were at level 40-ish.

I jump-flipped to my right hand room and the Stalker didn't move a bit.(Someone tagged him, IDK lel, big red marker saying Enemy)

Just when I was about to land, that distinct dread sound from the previous room and INSTA-KILL.

I could imagine the stalker opening a can of Mountain Dew, putting on shades and internally screaming, but yeah, The Stalker is a bona-fide MLG360Quickscoper.

I'm just glad my innumerable stalker marks were mysteriously wiped somehow. Either that or the constant syndicate assassins keep overriding him.

[DiabolusUrsus]

Going off of my own experiences, I think that the problem is two-fold:

It seems (seems, mind you; I'm not speaking authoritatively) that DE used the same algorithm for both Grineer and Corpus (and by extension Void) enemies. The Corpus are much more accurate now, but they all miss fairly regularly at medium distances whether you're the host or client. I find that if  I'm getting hit consistently by the Corpus at medium distances, it's because there are just that many projectiles flying through the air around me, rather than any one particular Crewman with legendary aim. The Grineer, on the other hand, are nightmarishly accurate at all ranges. The reason I say it seems like they use the same accuracy algorithm is that the Corpus can shoot accurately but miss a fair amount of the time, and their weapons have travel time. The Grineer use hitscan weapons, so an algorithm that provides the Corpus with moderate accuracy gives the Grineer godly accuracy.

 

But, DiabolusUrsus, that's ridiculous! For the Corpus to be accurate, they'd have to be leading their targets, which would make hitscan weapons miss entirely!

 

Not necessarily. Corpus units have the same amazing accuracy at closer ranges. Having used the Dera fairly extensively, it seems like the ranges at which Crewmen are accurate are within the range that the Dera doesn't need to be led. You can point directly at a moving enemy and have your shot hit because the (100 m/s IIRC) projectile can catch them. Sure, the crewmen still miss on occasion when you're moving quickly, but that can be attributed to the projectile speed once again. A Tenno can move much faster than a common Lancer or Crewman can when running. What I'm getting at here is that it feels like the enemies have their crosshairs plastered on the middle of your torso. In enemies with travel-time projectiles, this produces seemingly sufficient accuracy that degrades with target speed and range, as intended. In hit-scan enemies this produces accuracy that is reminiscent of an aim-bot that does not degrade nearly as much with speed or range. 

 

Taking the reports of "wobbly" Elite Crewman flux beams as reported by Sorta Random, it should be clear that hitscan weapons are quite likely to be the primary source of the problem, after identical (or almost identical) accuracy algorithms being used for all enemies. All the enemies have wobbly crosshairs when you're moving, but as long as the wobble doesn't take the crosshair off of your character's hitboxes, that means absolutely nothing at any range when the weapons are hitscan. The inevitable misses you see with the Grineer can be largely attributed to the relative inaccuracy of the Grakata, which also explains why high level Grineer get so frighteningly powerful; they swap out their grakata bullet-hoses for Hinds and Karaks, which have little to no spread or recoil. 

 

Solution?

Write a different accuracy algorithm for different enemies, accounting for whether or not they have hitscan weapons, and/or introduce a slight travel time for every weapon. 

[BloodArmoredApostle]

Enemies have perfect aimbot accuracy against whoever the host of the game is, connected players get the intended accuracy.

 

This includes solo play, so they get aimbot accuracy there too. This is a pretty gamebreaking bug and its egregious it was not fixed in recent update.

srry but when you pop the corner and a ballista is running and you are running jump spinning and she crit bleeds you to death...And your bleed out rate is over 100 in the 6 secs lvl 16 ballista i think theres a issue.

[Otaiken]

You can see the accuracy effects very well in Grineer maps where Eviscerators spawn.

 

Since now you have units with both hitscan and heavy travel time weapons to compare. Eviscerators are definitely more accurate than before, especially on shorter range (they were kinda easy to avoid before) and the hitscan Grineer are spot on accurate the moment you leave cover. Best tested on solo too.

 

Also, enemies usually tend to fire in bursts. I get the feeling that they fire more often when solo/host. As a client not only do enemies run around a lot before shooting, they also miss a lot.

 

Anyway, I could could easily run from cover to cover sliding/jumping before and taking minimal damage. Now I take fire the very moment I leave cover. Instantly... doesn't matter whether you slide out, sprint out or compter out.

[Siekier]

Just a moment ago I was doing Draco, Ceres.

After host migration I was the host and the only reason I survived is because I had Regenerative Molt on my Saryn and a Oberon in tram casting Renewal.

 

The accuracy of those grineer is ridiculous, I was coptering and using directional melee with Orthos Prime, moving really fast and they still kept shredding me with their Grakatas. Across the whole map.

Saryn is pretty tanky and still I was just moments away from being downed.

 

Current accuracy system needs to be changed, I don't know if it's intended or it's broken but it sure as hell needs to be adjusted.

[Fraystar]

There's a huge difference between Host and Client, especially if there's enough latency to make them shoot anywhere else except your position.

[Azawarau]

Well almost all enemies in the void don't have hitscan weapons. And assuming you were hosting others in T4D I'm guessing the enemies didn't often have the chance to get close enough to deal damage. But I could be wrong.

I was actually the only one leaving the safety of the frost shield every wave to kill enemies

 

Which is alot of the reason i was the only one really going down often after things started getting heavier on us

 

Not safe to go out with 500 ehp

[Thelonious]

I noticed that a while ago after hosting a few interception Archwing missions on Uranus. You know, the one where there are always 20+ enemies assaulting a single point...

If you're the host, you just melt.

 

I also always have the impression that enemies tend to prioritize attacking the host...maybe it's just an impression, maybe not...But when enemies chase YOU and ONLY YOU till the other side of the map while 3 other ppl are defending the same point, you wonder...

 

But hey, there's a reason why playing other multiplayer shooter games is a nightmare with a ping above 50ms, no reason why it would be any different for an AI.

 

Thing is, in Warframe, if everyone's ping limit was set at 50ms, no one would find a single game.

[Bipp]

bump

[SlyBoots]

yep, and there i was thinking our clanmate who mostly hosts was using saryn miasma spam for no good reason. until i hosted stephano/uranus not spamming my ultimate ability... turns out to stay alive he had no other chance than to kill enemies before they could see him.

Edited January 12, 2015 by SlyBoots

[Bipp]

bump

[Djego27]

I agree that it is broken, when I solo or stay behind doing the last 5-10 waves till 20 in a defence solo in a random group you really feel the massive difference after the host migration. The worst thing are grenier snipers that headshot you with pinpoint accuracity over halve the map when you just be in sight for halve a second and a single hit is strong enught to remove 300 shield +100-200 HP on my Ember even while the enemy level is just 20-25 compared to the 150-200 shield damage you normaly take as client, what makes me believe they headshot every singel time in this scenario.

 

I have not noticed this problem that much when I host a tower mission, but that can also be just by haveing less enemys with hitscan weapons.

[(PSN)Gaelic-_-Flame]

Coming from PS4 and it's the same there.

 

I'm used to play with my brother hosting and I never had any problem strafing enemies, they still can hit you, but their accuracy is pretty low. But then one time we decided to switch hosting to me, and it suddenly became like a nightmare mode, the things I did before would just be suicide.

 

So there's definitely a lot of difference in gameplay between hosting and clienting which makes hosting a disadvantage.

[Lunaroh]

Fellow Tenno, this is by far the BIGGEST balancing issue the game has right now.

DE will NEVER be able to balance the enemies / warframes / weapons as long as they don't homogenize the difficulty so that being Host and Client becomes irrelevant.

if they balance in favour of the host, clients will have it too easy.
if they balance in favour of the clients, host will have it way too hard.

Warframe will not be able to reach a feeling of balance as long as hosting a mission is 3 times harder than clienting it.

I strongly suggest we stop worrying about ember being too weak, nullifiers being to strong, enemies having way too much accuracy, etc. Start asking for this to be fixed so that when we speak about something being "too powerful" or "too weak" we can actually do it from the same perspective.

PD: sorry for my english.

[VoidPunch]

I agree with this. I have noticed the increase in accuracy but I would say the Corpus Elite crewmen just make Corpus levels not fun now. Honestly, Jupiter is one of the hardest tilesets to me, harder then Pluto, this is because the spawn rate of elite crewmen and Detron crewmen are absurdly higher then other corpus levels. Detrons tear through shields in seconds and since they never seem to miss, it's just not fun. Also the elite crewmen spawn in packs there very frequently and never miss as well which I find unfair. 

[VoidPunch]

Fellow Tenno, this is by far the BIGGEST balancing issue the game has right now.

DE will NEVER be able to balance the enemies / warframes / weapons as long as they don't homogenize the difficulty so that being Host and Client becomes irrelevant.

if they balance in favour of the host, clients will have it too easy.

if they balance in favour of the clients, host will have it way too hard.

Warframe will not be able to reach a feeling of balance as long as hosting a mission is 3 times harder than clienting it.

I strongly suggest we stop worrying about ember being too weak, nullifiers being to strong, enemies having way too much accuracy, etc. Start asking for this to be fixed so that when we speak about something being "too powerful" or "too weak" we can actually do it from the same perspective.

PD: sorry for my english.

This, we need to speak up.

[Bipp]

Have DE even read this thread yet?

I would've thought, since this is a massive issue and all, that DE must have heard about it and are at least remotely aware of it. Who knows? Maybe they have and are secretly working on it. Maybe they aren't.

I understand that DE must be really busy but come on. This is far from small potatoes.

What's it gonna take to hear something reassuring from DE about fixing this rage-inducing problem?

It's like trying to get noticed by Senpai.

Edited January 15, 2015 by Keybopsef

[Bipp]

Bumo

[(PSN)clbrad79]

I have not been playing long, but you are correct I have been in matches where I am destroyed by enemy fire in a matter of seconds. Its like the computer has a hive like mind and begins to hunt in unison. Soon as they are killed(blob) the next group are a joke or if you are killed they just run past you on revival and disappear. I cant explain it but there are moments where the A.I. goes all hulk mode and there is nothing you can do. I have also experienced where my shields(900+) are wiped in a few seconds by an unknown force. I clear the room and the only one in the room that can do this is the shotgunner, problem is they are across the room, but I have taken damage from them in the past at great lengths, just not enough to replicate the drop shield moment i described.

[CapricaSix]

[OP - thread merged]

 

This is something I've noticed recently that whenever I join a PUG on Stephano, I do quite well on my own even when going head-on at the enemies and being reckless. But when I host a PUG, most of my shield and health is gone in a couple bursts of damage in a few seconds with the enemies seemingly shooting me with perfect accuracy no matter how fast I move/zigzag, I don't get that when I'm not the host and I'm playing the exact same way in both instances (no lag either) with the exact same gear.

 

I'm guessing either the elementals/bleed/whatever procs more often for the host and not much for the clients, or that AI intentionally prioritises host as the target over clients with %100 perfect accuracy at all times.

 

Is this a known issue?

Edited January 26, 2015 by CapricaSix

[CTanGod]

It's a known issue by the veterans or the people who host a lot but most people will say it's not true, however it is, the best way to see this is in the spread of the Lanka for Crewmen or Corrupted Lancers, you'll see that vs a host there will be no spread in the shots while vs a client there will be a spread in a cone.

 

Most people dismiss this but it is most evident because you'll find yourself constantly low on hp and enemies will have insane accuracy aswell (i've seen myself clearly headshoted by a Nullifier while hosting but never when Client).

 

Some people believe this is due to the fact that DE made some changes to enemy accuracy but it seems to weirdly only affect hosts other say it's because there is no latency for the enemy when aiming at hosts.