Hosting Causes Drastic Increase Of Enemy Accuracy - Please Read, De

[Govorunb]

Calculating received damage seems to be done clientside (I'm assuming to relieve stress from the host) so that the worse your ping to the host is, the more delayed the enemies' shots will be. They'll basically be hitting where you were a few hundred milliseconds ago, and thus you will send data to host that says the enemies missed. The enemies still have pinpoint accuracy, it's just that the netcode favors clients when it comes to taking damage from shots.

[dadaddadada]

Elite Crewmen.

[CapricaSix]

Calculating received damage seems to be done clientside (I'm assuming to relieve stress from the host) so that the worse your ping to the host is, the more delayed the enemies' shots will be. They'll basically be hitting where you were a few hundred milliseconds ago, and thus you will send data to host that says the enemies missed. The enemies still have pinpoint accuracy, it's just that the netcode favors clients when it comes to taking damage from shots.

That might be so, but I've experienced it differently a few times when I've hosted void and my extremely laggy italian friend was standing still every few seconds, and he'd tell me he wasn't getting damaged by anything and doing alright until he "died for no reason" with full health, but he was getting damaged just fine on my end, just took a little longer to take him down than it normally would. Though he was lagging a lot then but I'm not even feeling anything close to that in my example.

 

 

It's a known issue by the veterans or the people who host a lot but most people will say it's not true, however it is, the best way to see this is in the spread of the Lanka for Crewmen or Corrupted Lancers, you'll see that vs a host there will be no spread in the shots while vs a client there will be a spread in a cone.

 

Most people dismiss this but it is most evident because you'll find yourself constantly low on hp and enemies will have insane accuracy aswell (i've seen myself clearly headshoted by a Nullifier while hosting but never when Client).

 

Some people believe this is due to the fact that DE made some changes to enemy accuracy but it seems to weirdly only affect hosts other say it's because there is no latency for the enemy when aiming at hosts.

That's just nasty, game feels a lot more "normal" as a client, yet I can't take any heat when I'm hosting. I'd consider myself a veteran but haven't hosted a lot due to my 8mbps connection, yet only noticing this now. I wonder if DE is aware of it, or did they even address it at some point?

Edited January 16, 2015 by CapricaSix

[Bibliothekar]

it's just that the netcode favors clients when it comes to taking damage from shots.

So ... finally a "bug" where the host is handed the short end of the stick and not the clients?

[CapricaSix]

So ... finally a "bug" where the host is handed the short end of the stick and not the clients?

The scary thing is, if/when they fix it, will it ruin the game for both host and the client? or will they make the enemies act the same way to the hosts as they do with the clients? :x

[Aeiroth]

The scary thing is, if/when they fix it, will it ruin the game for both host and the client? or will they make the enemies act the same way to the hosts as they do with the clients? :x

Well, DE seems to break equally as much as they fix with hotfixes and updates, so there's about a 50/50 chance at either.

[Bipp]

BUMP

[McSkops]

Night and day difference tbh. Very unfair for the host.

 

I can be a client and stand in front of a group of enemies and survive easily, yet while hosting the same map I can be taken down quite easily from just one or two guys because they can land every shot.

[Variatas]

It's kind of annoying that DE hasn't addressed this issue at all.  There's nothing like artificial difficulty to make a game unfun to play.

[xbone]

just no.if you are saying the accuracy is just normal make sure you are in fact the host of the game.it is brutal

[Otaiken]

Well, the more I play... the more this game feels like it has MMO combat. You can't really avoid damage much, you simply use your stats. So it's all about who can kill the other faster, damage mitigation, abilities, positioning, etc.

 

It feel really weird.

 

Also, the slash procs are getting kinda annoying. "Oh... another one. Let me just get my melee out and hea... dammit AGAIN!?"

Edited January 20, 2015 by LocoWithGun

[Thaumatos]

Fellow Tenno, this is by far the BIGGEST balancing issue the game has right now.

DE will NEVER be able to balance the enemies / warframes / weapons as long as they don't homogenize the difficulty so that being Host and Client becomes irrelevant.

if they balance in favour of the host, clients will have it too easy.

if they balance in favour of the clients, host will have it way too hard.

Warframe will not be able to reach a feeling of balance as long as hosting a mission is 3 times harder than clienting it.

I strongly suggest we stop worrying about ember being too weak, nullifiers being to strong, enemies having way too much accuracy, etc. Start asking for this to be fixed so that when we speak about something being "too powerful" or "too weak" we can actually do it from the same perspective.

PD: sorry for my english.

 

This, we need to speak up.

Agreed.

 

It should definitely be putting most, if not all, balance issues on the back burner for right now.  I'm not sure if its as big of an issue workload-wise, but it's definitely a game-changer to be the host in Warframe.

[(PSN)Gaelic-_-Flame]

Maybe we should try to push this topic into upcoming Devstream questions?

[Thaumatos]

Maybe we should try to push this topic into upcoming Devstream questions?

Hell yes.

 

Anyone on the usual list of suspects that gets their questions read live, please pose this one as well.

[Bipp]

Come on, DE. This is a serious issue here and we've had yet ANOTHER update for the game and still nothing about this (unless I haven't yet read it).

BUMP

[Thaumatos]

Come on, DE. This is a serious issue here and we've had yet ANOTHER update for the game and still nothing about this (unless I haven't yet read it).

BUMP

Not just an update, but another devstream which left this issue out.

 

Honestly, this isn't being talked about in the exclusive forum at all?  Not even a little bit?

 

Edit:

 

I was playing as a client to a Valkyr host on Kiste today who so obviously didn't host much because the guy ran in without Hysteria and got killed in 2 seconds.  From then on, it was Hysteria or hide in a corner.  And he still dropped 3 or 4 more times in the mission.

 

He didn't suck or anything.  MR 12 IIRC.  Definitely rank 30 everything.  He just played as a client most of the time.

 

Hosting higher level Grineer missions is a real kick in the teeth man.

Edited January 24, 2015 by Thaumatos

[ShardsSuperior]

Enemies track players through Latency. It's only a hit if it registers on the player's screen.

 

If there's lag, enemies are aiming for where the player was ~100ms ago. If the player is not moving, then the bullets are going to hit. Otherwise, the bullets will target where the player was a split second ago.

As host, there is no latency. Bullet will always aim at where are you RIGHT NOW. Thus... dead Tenno.

 

This isn't a simple coding problem. This would require a massive overhaul of the game engine, I think.

[Thaumatos]

Enemies track players through Latency. It's only a hit if it registers on the player's screen.

 

If there's lag, enemies are aiming for where the player was ~100ms ago. If the player is not moving, then the bullets are going to hit. Otherwise, the bullets will target where the player was a split second ago.

As host, there is no latency. Bullet will always aim at where are you RIGHT NOW. Thus... dead Tenno.

 

This isn't a simple coding problem. This would require a massive overhaul of the game engine, I think.

It isn't just that.  I can stand still in a pile of Grineer on Kiste as a client and laugh, on xcal, before chopping all their heads off with a Galatine.  If you host and stand toe to toe with an elite lancer for 3 seconds, with the same build as I use in the previous scenario, you're done.  They even shoot faster.

 

Even if it was just as you say, it'd be a simple fix of having the AI treat the host as a client with an average ping based on their connection speed rather than 0.

 

Edit:

 

And before you say anything about exploits, I doubt anyone will break out their 56k modems just to make it easier than it currently is as a client.  Not only that, but even playing solo you need to have an internet connection just to get to the servers you're connected to outside of playing the game.

 

Just to make it fair, you could probably say a fixed 60 ping would suffice.  It's terrible for shooters these days but still d@mn decent in the realm of MMOs.

Edited January 24, 2015 by Thaumatos

[ShardsSuperior]

It isn't just that.  I can stand still in a pile of Grineer on Kiste as a client and laugh, on xcal, before chopping all their heads off with a Galatine.  If you host and stand toe to toe with an elite lancer for 3 seconds, with the same build as I use in the previous scenario, you're done.  They even shoot faster.

 

Even if it was just as you say, it'd be a simple fix of having the AI treat the host as a client with an average ping based on their connection speed rather than 0.

 

Edit:

 

And before you say anything about exploits, I doubt anyone will break out their 56k modems just to make it easier than it currently is as a client.  Not only that, but even playing solo you need to have an internet connection just to get to the servers you're connected to outside of playing the game.

 

Just to make it fair, you could probably say a fixed 60 ping would suffice.  It's terrible for shooters these days but still d@mn decent in the realm of MMOs.

From testing, standing still on Kiste gets you killed. Even if you're client. I don't know what you're doing, but here are some possible explanations:

teammates splitting aggro

higher latency than what I've been playing at

luck

 

Also, soloing means you download all the parts of the game (or maybe just the instructions?), from which you then play it completely from your computer. Solo a game with a bandwidth monitor. It's almost flat during the actual game, with spikes when entering and extracting. So, it's basically 0 ping.

 

I'm not sure how the game network works, but I'd hazard a guess that implementing that is not as simple as you make it seem.

Edited January 24, 2015 by ShardsSuperior

[Thaumatos]

From testing, standing still on Kiste gets you killed. Even if you're client. I don't know what you're doing, but here are some possible explanations:

teammates splitting aggro

higher latency than what I've been playing at

luck

 

Also, soloing means you download all the parts of the game (or maybe just the instructions?), from which you then play it completely from your computer. Solo a game with a bandwidth monitor. It's almost flat during the actual game, with spikes when entering and extracting. So, it's basically 0 ping.

 

I'm not sure how the game network works, but I'd hazard a guess that implementing that is not as simple as you make it seem.

Sure it is, however the AI adjusts to you as a client at 60 ping should be easy enough to replicate at 0.  Unless there's an underlying factor that we don't know about, such as FPS playing a role in how fast Grineer shoot as a host...or something weird like that.

 

Even so, I never said standing still won't eventually get you killed.  I was making the point that you don't die nearly as fast as if you were hosting.  And so would many others here.

 

Test both.  Stand still as a client and stand still as a host.  Make a note of how much faster they shoot when you're hosting.

[Macframe]

I can also attest this, if you are the host it's very painful, not just accuracy, it seems host also attracts AI bots' attention/gunfire more. At Draco's level, there is nothing you can do to avoid getting hit if you happen to be in the middle of $hit storm, roll, run, slide are useless, the only way is to get out of their line of sight or use ability to save you. As a non host it's noticeably easier, so next time when you laugh at someone seems getting downed a lot, think about this.

[Dogoframe]

I dont think this issue can even be debated without taking dedicated servers into consideration. I am not an expert by any means, but as a layman I suppose nothing can be changed while the Beta Testers do their own hosting. And I really dont see the company providing the Beta changing their stance on dedicated servers.

[SlyBoots]

i don't think a fix for this would need dedicated servers at all, simulating latency for the host seems very plausible to me. but what use is it when we speculate about how to go about fixing it? for now we need DE to finally see/acknowledge this.

[[DE]Rebecca]

Merged similar threads.

 

The whole host/client thing might be part of it. If you're not hosting, then you're playing easy-mode; if you're hosting or soloing, then you're experiencing the enemy accuracy as it's intended to be.

 

This thread has a substantial amount of reports claiming the above, which I don't doubt likely point to an issue, but I am eager to see if anyone has data or footage to reflect the claims with 100% verification. That might be tough to do which might explain the lack of comparison footage thus far... 

 

I guess the simplest request would be to determine the most reliable way to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the issue is 100% present. I have a few methods that I'll try (with the help of some Tenno), but open to the testing methods of others.

[Jeloxale]

Merged similar threads.

 

 

This thread has a substantial amount of reports claiming the above, which I don't doubt likely point to an issue, but I am eager to see if anyone has data or footage to reflect the claims with 100% verification. That might be tough to do which might explain the lack of comparison footage thus far... 

 

I guess the simplest request would be to determine the most reliable way to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the issue is 100% present. I have a few methods that I'll try (with the help of some Tenno), but open to the testing methods of others.

I personally as a 4everalone Tenno couldn't care less if the enemies hit better in solo. I just do what I always do and kill 'em all. Not so big deal if you ask me.

I would love to help anyway... if I didn't have exams this week that is.