Bring Back Iron Skin Face Tanking

[Holeypaladin]

Link still protects a heck of a lot better than iron skin at those high level missions.  If they're going to release high level events like that, then all skills need to be balanced for them.  Especially with raids coming out which will shred Rhino with his iron skin in one shot.

 

Trinity is not intended as a tank, and Rhino is.  Trinity tanks way better than Rhino does.  This is a major problem.... not with Trinity, but with Rhino for failing to measure up to the healer.  What do you get when the healer is a better tank than the tank?  A useless tank, obviously.

 

It doesn't matter if you think Rhino should be a tank or not... what matters is that he is described as a tank, and can't tank.  That's all there is to it.

[trieuazn0]

Link still protects a heck of a lot better than iron skin at those high level missions.  If they're going to release high level events like that, then all skills need to be balanced for them.  Especially with raids coming out which will shred Rhino with his iron skin in one shot.

 

Trinity is not intended as a tank, and Rhino is.  Trinity tanks way better than Rhino does.  This is a major problem.... not with Trinity, but with Rhino for failing to measure up to the healer.  What do you get when the healer is a better tank than the tank?  A useless tank, obviously.

 

It doesn't matter if you think Rhino should be a tank or not... what matters is that he is described as a tank, and can't tank.  That's all there is to it.

but he can tank. . Much better then other frames at that

[NoirTree]

Update:

5 step proposal to balance out damage reduction powers:

Step 1: Remove invulnerability from Valkyr's broken hysteria.

Step 2: Remove power scaling to eclipse and shatter shield.  80% DR for Mesa and 75% for Mirage is more than enough for "glass cannon" type warframes.

Step 3: Buff Rhino's base armor to 300 and apply armor DR to iron skin.  Iron skin health = max shields + max health + power strength.  This makes a full iron skin build require at least four mods (Redirection, vitality, steel fiber, and power strength mods)

Step 4: Add additional aggro mechanics to make Rhino draw enemy fire away from teammates and to himself.

Step 5: Buff Frost's armor to 300.  Give Frost an augment to make snow globe more eximus-like in exchange for a significant chunk of its health.... perhaps using the same health and DR formula as iron skin for the eximus version.

 

Step: 1 Let's nerf Valkyr with underpowered melee to the S#&$

Step: 2 Let's do same with Mesa and Mirage

Step: 3 My Rhino not to OP. Give him IDDQD and Rakta AkBoltor Prime (Agree. Iron skin need that baff)

Step: 4 What that little mobs doing here? Look at my cool Limbo animation. (Agree)

Step: 5 Em. no buff Rhino\nerf other. Well (( (Realy good idea for Frost)

I'm just joking. Don't be angry no one like ungrounded nerfs.

Edited March 1, 2015 by NoirTree

[RealPandemonium]

Try that level 150 escalation match as Rhino.  See how long iron skin keeps you alive.

It's not about "how long" but "if" it keeps me alive.  In the case of the Escalation alert, it did keep me alive.  I used a max range, max efficiency, remainder strength build along with Redirection.  I went down only a couple of times before my team wiped due to poor discipline. 

 

 

Edit: Have you tryed Valkyr in the last Escalation alert? unless within that 1min time frame, you can kill the 30+ mobs that are surrounding you, You'll die once the Duration is over Due to the skill after effect!! Did you know that? bet you did not

Actually you can completely nullify this downside by running away from enemies before it wears off.  Only currently highlighted enemies incur the built-up damage when the ability ends. 

[Grand-Dozer]

 

Edit: Have you tryed Valkyr in the last Escalation alert? unless within that 1min time frame, you can kill the 30+ mobs that are surrounding you, You'll die once the Duration is over Due to the skill after effect!! Did you know that? bet you did not

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/410236-solo-run-phoenix-escalation-alert-valkyr/  lol

[geninrising]

The alert is simply further proof of the ignorance inherent in player's chosen "playstyle" of power spam. DE needs to excise this cancerous portion asap for the future health of the game. Sheer stupidity that pressing 1 button repeatedly can clear the most difficult alert in WF history. DE needs to recognize this quickly.

[Holeypaladin]

but he can tank. . Much better then other frames at that

When Trinity out-tanks Rhino, it means Rhino is underpowered.

 

It's really just that simple.  Rhino is supposed to be a tank, Trinity is not.  But Trinity out-tanks him.  Thus, iron skin needs to be buffed to the same level or higher than Link.

[RealPandemonium]

When Trinity out-tanks Rhino, it means Rhino is underpowered.

 

It's really just that simple.  Rhino is supposed to be a tank, Trinity is not.  But Trinity out-tanks him.  Thus, iron skin needs to be buffed to the same level or higher than Link.

logic ITT

[UnknownBlademaster]

The abilities themselves are not what is broken. It's the infinite availability of said skills that is broken. Energy gating is a failure and needs a rework.

 

The "Cheese" comes from being able to spam in the first place. Quite frankly you could nerf all of the skills to approximately half their current effectiveness and with the infinite energy things would be just as easy if take 2x longer. DE is pretty freaking ignorant to not just tell the community suck this change and like it or leave(refering to a complete revamp of either the entire energy system or separately metering ultimates).

What you just suggested is the #1 way to lose half of your playerbase and therefore, half of your potential income. Something no sane man would ever want or even should do.

[UnknownBlademaster]

When Trinity out-tanks Rhino, it means Rhino is underpowered.

 

It's really just that simple.  Rhino is supposed to be a tank, Trinity is not.  But Trinity out-tanks him.  Thus, iron skin needs to be buffed to the same level or higher than Link.

Just stop spamming your ideology all over this thread. Not everybody sees everything the same *cough The Dress cough*.

 

For your example, Hitler saw the world as an opportunity. Opportunity for himself to be called Emperor, God, he saw it as lands that he could conquer.

Me? I see the world as a whole lot differently. Your vision of the world might be nowhere near my vision, and it's ok.

 

How does this add to the thread? You see Rhino as a tank, and explain why pretty well. The problem here is that you fail to realize some people like me see him a whole lot differently. In my opinion he's a CC god, a half support, half bruiser, but definitely not tank. Just because he's big, has a self-defense ability (which almost every frame has, if not 2 or more), and has been called a tank by his developers quite a long time ago doesn't really mean that he MUST be a tank, not to mention that he must be the BEST tank. People change their minds, you know. Maybe DE though he could be a tank when he was released, but then said "we don't like him as a tank, let's make him something different!"?

 

Another thing is - a frame shouldn't and in most cases CAN'T be meant for only one role. By this point, you can call almost every frame a tank since almost every frame has some sort of shield, damage mitigation ability, stealth or anything else that improves their survivability, yet we still call frames like Mesa damage dealers, or Trinity - support. I'd easily give Rhino the roles of being a tank, CCer, support and bruiser, since he can do all these things easily and effectively. I can't call him a damage dealer since he doesn't have any real damage-focused abilities, can't call him a support since he doesn't have any team-based buffs (except Roar, but it's kinda weak IMO) or healing.

 

I hope you just read this, think about it, and rethink your entire "Rhino must be the best tank in the game" theory to see if it stays the same or this post changes it, be it for better or worse.

[EX-Zanki]

Rhino has been long enough on the beginner's frame of choice... if he is the "official" tank of the game, why don't they give him the tools to be so?

[WernerShadow]

after reading most of the comments i think i might have a solution to the IS scaling a rather simple one that would remain fair for the rhino players why not simply put it on a factor based defense

 

 

(damage x factor) = Damage absorption

 

ea.

 

(125 x 2.2) =  275 

 

125 being the average damage dealt by an enemy at level 1 and the factor being IS multiplier in this case 220%  making you able to take almost 3 hits at level 1

 

this would scale well all the way where this ability can still be buffed using power mods  for instance intensify's 30% resulting in a 286% or 2.8 multiplier.

 

As shown this would never be over or under powered as regardless of level you more or less always take 2.5 hits  would also eliminate rhino being scaled to level where as no other frames are

[Holeypaladin]

Make it 25 hits and it'll work.  2.5, however, is essentially worthless.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

...even trinity is a better face tank. You can in fact pull off melee gameplay without life strike while buffing the whole group. Link doesn't only absorb 75% while damaging others,it also makes you immune to staggers of any sort. Combine it with blessing and you get a short god-mode.

This is what rhino should be. Nothing less.

[WernerShadow]

Make it 25 hits and it'll work.  2.5, however, is essentially worthless.

 

it was for simplicity's sake that i used 2.5 you can use any factor you like 25 making the (125 x 25) = 3125  how ever i do think the default should be much lower and rather maxed it can be like 25-30 potential hits

 

note: one thing how ever some unites do more damage so if the average damage at level 1 is 125 you can take more or less 25 hits or much less than 25. 

 

ea. lets say a Charger does 110 damage,Leaper 120 and Ancient Disrupter 150 the average damage between them is 126.667 so lets round that off to 127 now the fun part :P

 

(127 x 25 ) = 3175 

 

now take that value 

 

Charger 3175 / 110 = 28 hits

Leaper 3175 / 120 = 26 hits

Ancient 3175 / 150 = 21 hits 

 

as you can see you will take different hits depending on the enemy although i think this is rather fair way to calculate the armor value of IS