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Jax_Cavalera

Tactic Selections - Putting A Stop To Macro Farming, Rng And Grind Walls

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The game is about warframe that have abilities and you want to prevent us from useing them?

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What do you use for energy management? (This is not a combative post, I'm just curious to know how others approach modding.)

Usually just Streamline and Flow, even normal Flow is fine although I do have Primed in case I want to mess with it. I also normally only spam when I'm getting overrun and in Nova's case I don't have the duration or the slow maxed out, since that slows things down too much to suit me, although I do like to have a wide radius on defenses matches.

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I am behind tactics locking 100% For example anyone joining a stealth tactics mission should not be allowed to equip weapons that are audible and join the queue. This would guarantee that they have no reason for ignoring the team tactic choice. Additionally I almost want to say that creating some team kick mechanic would not be out of order here as well for use on players that absolutely refuse to work with the team once inside in order to troll the teams affinity/loot bonuses. Of course that could easily be resolved by giving the bonus to all team members except the one that broke the tactics rules, however that brings to mind the idea that people would look to game the system.

 

One player rushes in front spamming 4 while the others chase. The three in back did not specifically break the tactics rules and therefore get the multiplier without doing anything at all from shared affinity. So I would estimate the best idea be a team kick mechanic to remove problem children from the run and lock them out for the remainder of the mission regardless of how much has been completed.

 

This idea of tactics missions also brings to mind an Idea that I had previously about an ignore mechanic to automatically filter out people that you cannot stand playing with from joining missions you are queue'ing for. That way players would only have t ignore an individual once and never deal with said person again. That could also help to weed extremely toxic people out of our general gameplay experience as a whole.

 

I think that locking down the loadouts would work to stop trolls and would also hinder the freedom of choices in cases where abilities are able to turn a regular weapon into a stealth one etc.  There would be a strong risk now that I think about it, that player creativity would be crushed b locking loadouts down.

 

I think something similar to a Kick + ignore could be a good structure, though as you mention would need to be added carefully to avoid exploitation.

 

Here is the idea I had so feel free to expand and modify what I've got so it's even better still and we can just keep evolving the concept further as Tactic Selections will not work problem free without some form of self regulating system like this.

 

 

 

At the end of a mission, any players responsible for a 10% or higher reduction to the Tactical Reliance can be kicked from the squad.  This includes cases where the mission took a turn for the worst due to a troll so the Host Aborts the mission early 

 

Players that are being Ignored by a current member of a squad will not have permission to join that squad.  I think t would be fair to announce a Failed to Invite or Player Failed to Join, message into the squad chat field identifying which current member has the problem player set to Ignore.

 

This would help reduce anonymous acts of bullying and also promote civil resolutions in cases where it was just a matter of inexperience and not a genuine troll.  It will also help the host to identify which players may be a potential issue if they have a trusted friend they are trying to invite into their Pub game but they can't join since a Troll is hiding inside the existing squad.

 

I had considered more automatic measures instead but they always wound up with loopholes that could be easily exploited.  This approach keeps the situation in the hands of the players and has a strong effect at virtually isolating Trolls from being able to join any squads fairly quickly as often one player in a 4 man squad will have had a run-in with the Troll unless they are just getting started in that line of "work".

 

 

 

 

The game is about warframe that have abilities and you want to prevent us from useing them?

 

I think you might have posted in the wrong thread, this isn't a topic about removing warframe abilities.  Just double check to make sure that you are looking at the correct tab when you post replies.  This has happened to me before as well.

 

 

Summary

 

Ok so after further considerations, I think that Headshots as a Tactic for Defense would be way too difficult to accomplish especially on the Infested so unless others feel it needs to stay, I am thinking that it can be removed from the Defense Tactic Selections list.

 

I would like to think up or have you guys come up with a few more tactics for this mission type that would involve the use of certain abilities in conjunction with kills.

 

Things like :

 

-  Blinded Slaughter  -  clear waves by killing enemies that are unable to see due to being blinded.  (there are a lot of warframes with the ability to blind enemies.)

 

-  Cleansing  - Clear waves by killing enemies whilst they are standing over Oberon - Hallowed Ground or have emerged from Hydroid - Undertow pool.

 

(These examples would involve at least 1 squad member owning a compatible warframe to complete the Tactic.  Would be a cool way of encouraging players to give other frames a go.)

 

 

I will make a solid update to the OP reasonably soon once we have gathered a few more Tactic Options for Defense Missions from other contributors.

 

Also will add in the Bonus XP concepts that have been suggested and allocate a spot for this in there too properly.

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Just a quick update here to let you all know that the Opening Post has had major reconstruction surgery and better reflects the state of the topic.

 

If you have ideas for Tactic Selections or Way of the Shinobi moves please feel free to have your say.

 

If you wish to discuss any aspect of Tactic Selections, please do so in a respectful and clear fashion that includes a little rationale behind your statements as this will promote positive and constructive development of this topic and how we are able to improve warframe to avoid a reliance on Ability Spam.

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I gave up reading all these after page 10

IMO the reputation should not be related to kills, reputation is about making favors to syndicates

Which recent update did a great job, making ability spam just not efficient at rep farm and syndicate mission actually relevant now

It is not about "how you did it", it is about "did you get it done" if we are asked to make favors to syndicates

Killing random mobs or how you did the mission (your "tactic selection") is just irrelevant lore-wisely, and not necessary

 

If you really want to get rid of mindless spamming of certain abilities, the overheating mechanics (which I saw in somewhere in this thread) would be a appropriate way to do so

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I gave up reading all these after page 10

IMO the reputation should not be related to kills, reputation is about making favors to syndicates

Which recent update did a great job, making ability spam just not efficient at rep farm and syndicate mission actually relevant now

It is not about "how you did it", it is about "did you get it done" if we are asked to make favors to syndicates

Killing random mobs or how you did the mission (your "tactic selection") is just irrelevant lore-wisely, and not necessary

 

If you really want to get rid of mindless spamming of certain abilities, the overheating mechanics (which I saw in somewhere in this thread) would be a appropriate way to do so

 

I gave up reading all these after page 10

IMO the reputation should not be related to kills, reputation is about making favors to syndicates

Which recent update did a great job, making ability spam just not efficient at rep farm and syndicate mission actually relevant now

It is not about "how you did it", it is about "did you get it done" if we are asked to make favors to syndicates

Killing random mobs or how you did the mission (your "tactic selection") is just irrelevant lore-wisely, and not necessary

 

If you really want to get rid of mindless spamming of certain abilities, the overheating mechanics (which I saw in somewhere in this thread) would be a appropriate way to do so

I would agree with you except for one thing. When you get stuck in a mission by yourself, either because your teammate(s) dc'd or because you got trolled, sometimes it helps to be able to ability spam, and it can make the difference between whether you beat the mission or fail. Although, I do think that spamming should only be used when one has no other choice, because it is irritating to other players and also from a personal standpoint I find it irritating myself to have to spam a particular ability.

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I gave up reading all these after page 10

IMO the reputation should not be related to kills, reputation is about making favors to syndicates

Which recent update did a great job, making ability spam just not efficient at rep farm and syndicate mission actually relevant now

It is not about "how you did it", it is about "did you get it done" if we are asked to make favors to syndicates

Killing random mobs or how you did the mission (your "tactic selection") is just irrelevant lore-wisely, and not necessary

 

If you really want to get rid of mindless spamming of certain abilities, the overheating mechanics (which I saw in somewhere in this thread) would be a appropriate way to do so

 

I agree that DE have done a good thing to an extent with Rep now.  It is still linked to XP but is more nerfed in how much a player can get per day making the Syndicate rewards a bit more valuable than prior.

 

I am not wanting to get rid of ability spam, I'm wanting to get rid of the need for ability spam.

 

The most recent update with the new stealth system has provided us with 1 new Tactic to achieve this goal.  Now when you get that multiplier up high enough you are looking at over 13k per stealth kill which is nice as it means stealth can now be used to gain just as much XP/Rep as ability spam farming.

 

What this topic provides is basically an extension on this.  Now the idea was being born prior to DE releasing their Stealth 2.0 so it's good to see that they are also seemingly thinking along the same lines as the rest of the community here.

 

 

It's nice that there are 2 ways to earn fast XP and Rep now, I would like to see more.  I do understand there is a lot of content to try and read through to "catch up" which is why I have included summaries at the end of the Opening Post which cover the progress in stages as things developed.

 

 

The problem currently is that both Stealth 2.0 and previously Ability Spam tactics fail to address the underlying issue.  Grind Walls.

 

DE has a consistent reliance on Grind Walls that each have a strong reliance on RNG.  This is what I mean when I say Casino Style Gameplay Mechanics.  I believe players would have better odds at winning on the Pokies than they ever would in Warframe simply because the pokies are programmed so eventually they HAVE to pay-out after a specific number of losses.

 

When I refer to ability spam, I am talking about a mindset and not the physical act of spamming an ability.  The reason why we are/were driven to use this and why we will find players soon speed farming exploiting the new stealth 2.0 mechanic as well.  Where there is a will there is a way and whilst DE refuse to address the cause that provides players a will to speed grind the RNG, the problem will continue to pop up in new forms over and over again.

 

Tactic Selections cuts this problem off at the head by getting rid of the grind walls and RNG.  it relies on player skill and players owning a variety of equipment to handle each tactic to get the unique rewards offered.  It achieves all of this and boosts platinum sales, without pushing players to buy out of frustration but instead buying because they are just impatient and don't want to try and work their way towards the necessary loadouts to achieve specific tactics they are after.

 

This also crushes the motivation behind Macro Farmers because their macro tactics can't extract every rare and possible reward from a node now without user input giving them little to no advantage over human players.

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Updates On Tactic Options

 

Mobile Defense :

☆ First, Second and Third Abilities + Weapons
☆ Fourth Ability + Weapons

☆ Primary Weapons Only
☆ Secondary Weapons Only
☆ Melee Only

☆ Stun Kills (Enemy must be stunned at the time of death)
☆ Demolition (Explosive Kills Only Includes things like a charged Nova Antimatter Drop...must be shot at least once to count)

☆ Line of Defense  (Keep enemies 15m from the Terminals whilst they are being hacked by Lotus)

☆ Guard the VIP  (Ensure the player carrying the Data-Mass takes NO damage when holding it)

 



Interception :

☆ First, Second and Third Abilities + Weapons
☆ Fourth Ability + Weapons

☆ Primary Weapons Only
☆ Secondary Weapons Only
☆ Melee Only

☆ Stun Kills  (Enemy must be stunned at the time of death)
☆ Demolition  (Explosive Kills Only Includes things like a charged Nova Antimatter Drop...must be shot at least once to count)

☆ Hold the Fort  (No more than 1 Squad Member can be within a 25m Radius of each Tower)  **excludes downed members with a 5 second grace period after reviving a downed player to get out of range**

 

☆ Close Call  (Only 2 Towers can be held by the squad at the same time...No 4th Abilities Allowed)  **players are allowed to keep additional towers Neutral but not Captured**



Survival :


☆ First, Second and Third Abilities + Weapons
☆ Fourth Ability + Weapons

☆ Primary Weapons Only
☆ Secondary Weapons Only
☆ Melee Only

☆ Stun Kills  (Enemy must be stunned at the time of death)
☆ Demolition  (Explosive Kills Only Includes things like a charged Nova Antimatter Drop...must be shot at least once to count)

☆ Stealth  (Would require a 2x drop chance on life support for this tactic to work due to time required for stealth kills vs normal kills)

 

☆ Oxygen Surplus  (Keep oxygen levels above 40%)

☆ Greedy Kills  (1 Player in the Squad must hold 75%+ damage dealt)

☆ Shared Kills  (All Squad Members must hold the same % of damage dealt within a 10% margin of error before reductions to Tactical Reliance occur


 

 

 

Let me know what you all think of the proposed options, changes... additional ideas that could work well for these mission types etc.

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Just wanted to clarify a point for players that think p#2w is a non-issue. In the recent by the numbers they noted the most used abilities in the game(barring Tailwind) are players ultimates. This is simply not appropriate at all and proves that energy is not gating the use of said skills properly.

 

Here's the link in case you do not want to look for it. Radial Javelin clearly tops the charts as the most used ability in game(as I said barring Tailwind)

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/399939-by-the-numbers-warframe-powers/?p=4413024#entry4413024

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Just wanted to clarify a point for players that think p#2w is a non-issue. In the recent by the numbers they noted the most used abilities in the game(barring Tailwind) are players ultimates. This is simply not appropriate at all and proves that energy is not gating the use of said skills properly.

 

Here's the link in case you do not want to look for it. Radial Javelin clearly tops the charts as the most used ability in game(as I said barring Tailwind)

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/399939-by-the-numbers-warframe-powers/?p=4413024#entry4413024

So players using their powers is an issue? Uh, no it isn't. So players like using their ultimates, there's nothing wrong with that. It isn't appropriate in your opinion just because they have their own play styles. Let them be, they don't get angry at you and try to change the game to their play styles simply because you differ from theirs.

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I don't think players using their powers is an issue as a blanket rule.  I think the problem arises when said powers lend themselves to automation via macro mechanics.  When this occurs, it is no longer players using abilities but a script executing their abilities on multiple accounts.

 

However, even then, trying to prevent abilities from being macro enabled is just a band-aid fix to the real issue and the real issue is the question of, "what is the motivation behind players automating the game?"

 

Grind walls and RNG, a system that rewards players with end game goals based on kills instead of performance.  It is infinitely harder to automate completing non-endless missions and even endless ones if they each use tactics that require some level of mobility or aiming of a weapon.

 

Whilst endless missions can be completed using a single keystroke command, the only people who will benefit from DE nerfing things are those automating the game because they don't have to physically sit there and grind... their scripts do this for them and they get to sell rewards for high prices because they are normally too painful for regular players to grind and get.

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Few things to update on :

 

I've adjusted the Opening Post so it includes concepts for Spy missions as well and added in the concepts for the previously listed Tactic Selections too.

 

The title has been changed as well to be more suitable and in-line with what tactic selections can resolve as I suspect listing that it was only to prevent Ability Spam exclusively may have become misleading as the topic has evolved.

 

At this particular juncture Tactic Selections is really focused on removing the motivation behind Macro Farming as well as promoting diversity in how players take on maps by evening out the reward structure to encourage players to feel more free to tackle a mission the way they want to.

 

If there is a particular game mode you have always loved but never feel like you can just try to beat it the way you want because :

 

1. There is a more efficient way of doing it

 

2. Speed of completion directly relates to re-rolling the drop table of rewards so getting as many re-rolls as possible is the only way to progress in the game.

 

3. Your favourite frame simply is not that good at the most efficient approach to the level so it is always back-benched by the rest of the squad in favour of more stereotypical options.

 

4. Kills = XP and Rep so not getting a bunch of kills means you aren't progressing fast enough with your Mastery Rankings or levelling of gear

 

etc..

 

 

There seems to be little point having so many frames in a game if only a handful of them get a lot of play time whilst others sit cold on the back-bench waiting for buffs so they can compete.

 

 

I would love to also have a dedicated Tactic per Gamemode that is designed to encourage the usage of each warframe so players need that frame in their squad to keep a 100% Tactical Reliance.  This would allow players to really get out there and either test every single frame to obtain all possible rewards on offer or at the very least watch another player who does use that frame use it to do what it does well.

 

Things like

 

Defense - Firewall Tactic  =  Knockback Enemies using a wall of fire to protect the pod from enemy attacks.

 

This would be a tactic relying on Ember to use her ring of fire ability that also sends out the knockback wall of flame pushing mobs off the pod area.  Once knocked Back a mob can be killed by any means but they must have been knocked back at least once by the wall of flames.

 

 

Defense - Forced Submission  =  All enemies must be pulled to the ground at the time of their death.

 

Would encourage the use of a Mag to pull masses of enemies over before other frames went through and slaughtered them.  Would have a 10% Tactical Reliance error margin before negative values kick in to allow for things like taking out Ancient Healers which seem to block all use of warframe abilities.  Nullifiers and Blizzard Eximus mobs can have their shields disabled so they aren't a real problem in this scenario.

 

 

 

 

With all the above in mind, it may be time that this thread is moved to a more suitable location where the feedback regarding the idea and the rationale behind how it was created can be better suited.

 

It seems and may not be the case, that DE have removed a major reliance on Ability Spam out of the game with recent changes and believe that there is no underlying problem still there waiting in the dark.  The issue is.. the problem hasn't changed or gone away, it's just in the dark right now lurking and will re-emerge again if untreated.

 

Ability Spam was the face to a problem that goes much deeper, the problem of Macro Farming, RNG, Grind Wall Mechanics, Kills = XP/Rep.

 

Without this being addressed I will guarantee that more threads with subject matter similar to :

 

 

"What's wrong with ***insert warframe here*** for ***insert endless mission*** never being good enough for the squad"

 

"I can never get ***insert prime part*** after completing the mission.. does it even drop ?"

 

"The latest ***Insert weapon or warframe*** is a terrible grind and not worth doing but I refuse to spend the plat to just buy it from the market"

 

 

I could go on but we all know these type of posts will continue to pop up and dominate the forums until something like Tactic Selections is properly reviewed and some level of acknowledgement that the solution is to deal with the underlying motive behind things like Ability Spam instead of trying to simply stop players from spamming abilities and then thinking that removing the motive behind JUST ability spam will solve the other issues.

 

 

Yesterday was running a T4 Intercept, my friend was up in a tree at the end of the mission discussing what we needed to alter in our tactic for the next wave of enemies whilst I was just jumping around wall to wall using push to talk instead of typing.  We kill the remaining enemies and only I get the R5 Fusion Core Reward for the previous wave.. why?

 

Well... because instead of DE removing the motive behind Macro Farmers wanting to use scripts to speed farm their game.. they added in Anti-AFK which prevents idle players getting rewarded.  Seems that talking in squad chat still constitutes as being idle to DE.  If Tactic Selections were introduced, there wouldn't even need to be an Anti-AFK system because Macro Farming would be of no use in the context of Tactic Selections compared to how prevalent it is now.

 

Worst thing is. we all know a system that relies on a script to detect if a player is afk. can be circumvented using... that's right... another script by the macro farmers.. so the only players being hurt by this change are regular players and not the ones DE are trying to prevent from exploiting their game.

 

Just one real-case example of how the approach DE are taking can be improved to better target the real causes of issues here instead of dealing with the face value problem like anti-inflammatory cream for an allergic reaction instead of removing the cause of the allergy away from the victim.

 

 

 

TL:DR

 

1.  Added in new Tactic Selections for Spy

2.  Changed name of topic to better represent evolved subject matter of discussion

3.  Requested that the topic be moved to a more suitable location if this is not still the best option for it

4.  List that DE are only treating the symptoms instead of removing the cause of the disease by providing examples

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Quick Update

 

I have added both Excavation and Void Sabotage Tactics to the Opening Post.  These are all just base Ideas of course and I am interested to hear community feedback and input so they can be better shaped to suit the scenarios.

 

New ideas for any Mission type are more than welcome to be added to the discussion for feedback and development as well.

 

I would really like to hear community ideas about which warframes would be best suited for various missions so that special Tactic Selections that involve a squad member owning that particular frame (try to aim for 2+ frames that could achieve the same objective).

 

This is to encourage players to try and / or own multiple warframes and really explore the game content further as well.

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How does stealth work in survivals? Doesn't survival consist of setting off all alarms in order to distract enemies?

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How does stealth work in survivals? Doesn't survival consist of setting off all alarms in order to distract enemies?

 

Well you can do stealth kills but in the context of the game mode that's probably one that should be removed, good spot there :)

 

The only way I found to easily get stealth kills in Survival was with a loki and I would disarm or irradiating disarm the enemies and then quickly sneak up behind them and melee them or simply wait invisible till they settle down then start melee killing them one after another.

 

In general though this isn't the most well suited tactic for that gamemode so I will remove it now.

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this idea in general seems to have the potential to give skillfull action gameplay the place it should have in every warframe´s mission: a place as rewarding as mass murdering, however im more inclined for wider approaches, what i mean is, intead of stun kill, debuff kill, thats wider, and easier to sell i guess

 

+1 to OPs general idea, my favourite booster was the coordinated hacking, that would be freaking cool to do

 

Also, i hadnt seen this topic before, dont know why, i dont even know if the issue of skills game has been around for so long, but i hope that everyone that shares this concern takes an attitude to educate the community that reacts in fear of being stolen of his ability spam game, if the message is repeated a lot people will see that p42w is unhealthy for the game and themselves

 

 

+ Medallions already proven that mass murdering isnt the only way to give fair rewards while having fun

+ Stealth kills affinity already showed that mass murdering isnt the only way to rank up stuff while having fun

 

this is the way to follow imo, reward players for doing things that they enjoy

 

 

 

for Void Sabotage, killing venkra and sprag within 30 seconds of difference would make another booster 

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this idea in general seems to have the potential to give skillfull action gameplay the place it should have in every warframe´s mission: a place as rewarding as mass murdering, however im more inclined for wider approaches, what i mean is, intead of stun kill, debuff kill, thats wider, and easier to sell i guess

 

+1 to OPs general idea, my favourite booster was the coordinated hacking, that would be freaking cool to do

 

Also, i hadnt seen this topic before, dont know why, i dont even know if the issue of skills game has been around for so long, but i hope that everyone that shares this concern takes an attitude to educate the community that reacts in fear of being stolen of his ability spam game, if the message is repeated a lot people will see that p42w is unhealthy for the game and themselves

 

 

+ Medallions already proven that mass murdering isnt the only way to give fair rewards while having fun

+ Stealth kills affinity already showed that mass murdering isnt the only way to rank up stuff while having fun

 

this is the way to follow imo, reward players for doing things that they enjoy

 

 

 

for Void Sabotage, killing venkra and sprag within 30 seconds of difference would make another booster 

 

Thank you for the support and yes that's a great idea I think, I'll add it to the list of Tactics under Void Sabotage (I know void's getting removed but till that time it's still really good as a tactic option)

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To the OP you lost my interest when you said that you get no XP for kills, how do you level up during the match? What happens if your game is bugged and it says your unranked how do you level up then. Also if you fail the mission you would gain nothing at all for your time played. Your an idiot.

Your bunch of stupid ideas on this tactical play make a great suggestion for new affinity challenges.

DE need better macro detection, they need to force you to play the game rather than be AFK the entire time, they did this in excavation but they made it unplayable because they couldn't find a new power core, the people that drop the power cores need to spawn when the excavator stops.

Nullifiers stopped everyone macroing t4 survival after having so many keys from the syndicate exploit, the swarms made it so you would die if you were AFK vsing infested, the grineer I have no idea what they do against macros.

Interception needs to be adjusted for players in the Solo game mode, DE are stupid for putting this nerf for solo players.

As for console players we cant macro and don't deserve to have these annoying npcs, the swarms need to go asap, the nullifiers can stay even though they are a pain.

Macroing will always be around, they need to make macroing less effective by making players play objectives and giving them less AFK time which they have already done.

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To the OP you lost my interest when you said that you get no XP for kills, how do you level up during the match? What happens if your game is bugged and it says your unranked how do you level up then. Also if you fail the mission you would gain nothing at all for your time played. Your an idiot.

Your bunch of stupid ideas on this tactical play make a great suggestion for new affinity challenges.

DE need better macro detection, they need to force you to play the game rather than be AFK the entire time, they did this in excavation but they made it unplayable because they couldn't find a new power core, the people that drop the power cores need to spawn when the excavator stops.

Nullifiers stopped everyone macroing t4 survival after having so many keys from the syndicate exploit, the swarms made it so you would die if you were AFK vsing infested, the grineer I have no idea what they do against macros.

Interception needs to be adjusted for players in the Solo game mode, DE are stupid for putting this nerf for solo players.

As for console players we cant macro and don't deserve to have these annoying npcs, the swarms need to go asap, the nullifiers can stay even though they are a pain.

Macroing will always be around, they need to make macroing less effective by making players play objectives and giving them less AFK time which they have already done.

 

Whilst the message is somewhat aggressive, I can appreciate the input data provided.  There are 2 mindsets to the problem of no affinity if you fail a mission : 

 

The first mindset would be to resolve the issue by providing base affinity as milestones are completed :

 

Missions can be easily broken down into stages where packets of affinity are rewarded as you complete each milestone and then if you successfully extract you would get the bonus xp based on this as well.

 

e.g :

Exterminate (every 25% of the total enemies are killed)

Spy (Each Terminal you hack)

Deception (Reaching the objective and delivering the payload)

Sabotage Corpus (Destroying the core)

 

etc.. and the total affinity would be equal for each mission type and since you would need to complete the entire objective to pass anyway, this is just so those who are not strong enough to complete a tactic can keep trying it to gain some affinity even if they fail half way through

 

 

 

The other more logical option which would require no adjustments :

 

Logic would clearly state that if you aren't passing a certain Tactic Selection Option.. why not just find one you can complete and use that to level up until you are strong enough to handle the desired option you were previously failing??

 

It seems to be a pretty obvious solution and one that players opt for even now with the way affinity is obtained so I just don't get how this would be a problem.

 

It could only be considered as an act of futility to keep trying to pass a mission you are not yet ready to take on when you could more quickly complete the previous mission leading up to that one a few times and level your equipment so that you suddenly can beat the difficult mission.

 

 

One thing that I am considering adding in the OP is a way to address the issue of macro farmers still abusing to get rare drops and resources:

 

-   50% of the Affinity gained from breakables/lockers would be kept even in the case of failing a mission with boosts to the drop rate of affinity orbs also being increased.

 

-   Increases in both resources/credits and also the inclusion of mod drops would be added to lockers and storage containers.

 

-   Enemies would no longer drop resources/credits or mods as this would still provide macro farmers with incentive to abuse the game.  DE can now decide how many goodies (credits, resources, mods) they would expect players to get from a single run of a mission by tweaking the drop rates of breakable storage containers and lockers.

 

-   Bosses and unique 1-off enemies like T4 Vor or the Sisters in Tower Sabotage etc.. would still drop their unique items as they can not be macro farmed like regular enemies that spawn in cloned packs.

 

-   More breakable containers would need to be added into missions or put back into missions that have had them all removed such as Tower Defense and Draco to name a few I have personally noticed.

 

-   The Mod "Master Thief" would be altered so that each squad member can use it on the same locker giving the team 4 chances to crack it open if all 4 members were running the mod.

 

(currently it does not work this way and once 1 squad member has had a crack at the locked locker that's all you get even if all 4 are running that mod)

 

-   In missions where the tile set does not change such as Tower Defense or Draco etc.. Breakables could be included in treasure rooms that are locked behind Terminal Panels which need to be hacked.  Hacking terminal panels is not something that can be macro'd to work within the limited time allocated to complete a successful hack, but a human player will not have this same problem.

 

 

I would be keen to hear what others think about this before I add it to the Opening Post

 

 

The fact that (XB1)O4K51 finds the steps DE have taken to block macro farming annoying is evidence that trying to band-aid fix the problem using any of the approaches that prelude this statement they make clearly are not the correct way to address the problem and will hurt the majority of regular players who DO NOT use macros.

 

It would therefore be illogical to continue trying to introduce more of the same annoying band-aid fixes into the game when they clearly are not what the community are after and fail to address the underlying causes of the problem.  They don't need better macro detection, they need to adjust the structure of the game slightly so that the impact greatly or completely removes the need for macro farming.

 

If there is no benefit to macro farming this will have a 100% chance of removing the problem.

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So I have been talking with various groups in the Warframe community and something interesting as feedback came up regarding this kind of approach :

 

1.)  DE already make a good level of profits and have to answer to various key players involved in funding further game development and marketing / distribution etc.

 

2.)  The risk of altering the game this much and it not paying off would be too dangerous unless there were serious hard figures showing the majority of player base were in favour of it and not just a scraped percentage but the actual player base.

 

3.)  There would need to be new clever ways to extract platinum sales from players.. wouldn't be that hard to come up with things players would spend platinum on.. heck  prime warframes are almost identical to their regular counterpart for the most part but sell for a fortune and are worth only 6k mastery points.   All DE need to do is introduce new twists on existing missions via the combination of Tactic Selections and Mission Objectives and you would have room for brand new frames weapons and extra items.

 

Add in the ability to mine from a planet and you have consumable mining equipment not just the basic Distilled extractors etc but some real mine mechanics for pure resource farming.  in the context of removing drops from mobs this isnt so bad an idea.  have a refinery and a conversion cost to convert raw ores into their resources with high yields for platinum. or do base conversions with low chance of high yields without etc..ppl will get in on that.

 

 

Anyways long story short is the work required and the risks involved will probably never allow DE at this point to consider something like this because they likely are content with the "if it ain't broken why fix it" motto although they are having to fix things constantly with bandaids instead of taking out the Doctors toolbag and doing surgery to fix it once and for all.

 

Usually if someone opts to fix problems with bandaids constantly instead of getting the proper treatment required to put a stop to the perpetual cause of the injuries.. it means they don't see it being worthwhile.  They believe that in the long run bandaids will get them by until the end so not much point changing gear to remove the issue.  Could this be true for Warframe?  is it that the dev team know approximately how far the lifespan of the game has left to go and therefore are not aiming to fix things up properly to ensure prolonged duration beyond this timeframe?

 

I'm not saying that our idea of Tactic Selections is the only way to fix the issue, but the community have provided this option and it would do the job where Anti-AFK and grind walls are currently not performing well.

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