Remove Serration And Other Base Damage Mods From The Game And Replace It With A Damage Boost Based On Weapon Level

[Kitzun]

Hoo, quote war, things are heating up.

-snip-

Fixed.

 

First, nothing is mandatory in a game, you play as you want and what content you want, so the mandatory part is not true; if you find serration boring then don't use it and play accordingly.

I have been in WF since the start of open beta and my serration is still at rank 9, the tenth one is simply not worth the cost when there are lots of other things to spend creds/cores on.

 

Second, I didn't wrote about crit damage but crit chance and all other stats, and you didn't answer about that, only about crit damage.

Considering how vehement you are, I'm surprised you are not more thorough to prove me wrong on this very topic.

 

Third, since the beginning you assert all kind of things without ever proving they are true or they will come to pass, you have no way to know a 30% serration will always be used in a build for an example.

You've done it multiple times in this thread.

 

Last, I'm against removal of content if it can be avoided by principle (less game content is less entertainment) and contrary to what you said since the beginning of this thread you never proved base damage mods cannot be fixed or are unfun, you only repeat it ad nauseam without ever proving it.

 

Basically, I'm not convinced at all by what you wrote.

Edited January 15, 2015 by Kitzun

[Slaviar]

I have a feeling majority of people who object serration removal makes profit from levelling it.
Main problem with serration, as OP stated, is simple- it's essential. I can imagine better use for mod slot,14 mod points, a forma, 350+ R5 cores and 800k+ credits.

[SquirmyBurrito]

No, I don't like the idea of anything being based on level. Its bad enough that I have to wait until my frame is level thirty for it to be worth taking to anything serious (since we no longer have ability mod cards or the ability to manage them), I don't want to have an extra level of irritation applied to my weapons. I like that I can slap damage mods onto my weapon as soon as it is rank 4 (with a potato and matching polarity). This change would make leveling (and re-leveling after forma is used) a complete pain in the butt, and I would not appreciate that.

[Kitzun]

I have a feeling majority of people who object serration removal makes profit from levelling it.

Main problem with serration, as OP stated, is simple- it's essential. I can imagine better use for mod slot,14 mod points, a forma, 350+ R5 cores and 800k+ credits.

It's numerically stronger than the other mods, that's why a nerf would be good.

 

And I have a feeling majority of people who want it removed simply want a platinum jackpot with Legendary Cores.

See the problem ?

[Slaviar]

It's numerically stronger than the other mods, that's why a nerf would be good.

 

And I have a feeling majority of people who want it removed simply want a platinum jackpot with Legendary Cores.

See the problem ?

And I want legendary cores to be untradable. 

[SIDESTRE4M]

In regards to this, I was just had an idea and didn't expect the conversation to get so huge. I made a suggestion, and honestly, I don't care either way. I have a maxed serration. Sure I think this would make weapon builds a little more dynamic, if only because it takes secondaries down a notch and buffs melee. But I'm just playing devil's advocate, because I think this makes for a good discussion. If I gave the impression of taking that position I sincerely apologize.

 

I admit freely that it may not give more build variety. But if we still hold ourselves to the same standard in terms of DPS (since it's perfectly fine as it is), some players may decide to put quality of life mods. So if you have something to say, as long as it's relevant, feel free to say it.

 

The discussion is what the impact of such a change would be, and that's what I'm trying to spark debate on. Hopefully it draws DE's eyes away from removal of Serration in favor of conditional damage, and makes them consider the fact that they add mods that are essentially required for high-level gameplay. As long as that conversation exists, I'm fine watching idly.

 

I already contributed. I still think Serration is in a good position to act as progress bar over time. If it's gone, people will have even less to do. If you don't agree on that, we can just mark that as personal opinion, but that's still another position that isn't neccessarily right or wrong.

 

We have 8 slots. Most people aren't willing to sacrifice a slot for Fast Hands, why would they suddenly want without Serration? (Speaking of those who build solely for DPS for T4 or something). You immediatly set a new standard when Serration is gone, because possible DPS increases. So people will just build for that.

 

And to be honest, you aren't the first one with that idea. It was brought up multiple times by different people. Not to say it is bad or something. Constructive contribution is never bad.

 

No, I don't like the idea of anything being based on level. Its bad enough that I have to wait until my frame is level thirty for it to be worth taking to anything serious (since we no longer have ability mod cards or the ability to manage them), I don't want to have an extra level of irritation applied to my weapons. I like that I can slap damage mods onto my weapon as soon as it is rank 4 (with a potato and matching polarity). This change would make leveling (and re-leveling after forma is used) a complete pain in the butt, and I would not appreciate that.

 

Exactly what I was thinking. I may be able to put in an elemental mod instead, but it relativates a few levels after that, when I already can put in Serration "and" an elemental mod. However if I find time, I will make calculations whether it's really worse or not, to be fair. Two elementals instead of Serration and an elemental... maybe is enough.

Edited January 15, 2015 by SIDESTRE4M

[Kitzun]

And I want legendary cores to be untradable. 

But you are not majority of people.

[(XBOX)Strange Destiny]

OPs idea is fine acceptable as a placeholder to keep things going and monitor the situation if DE wished to remove serration immediately. As a long term solution though it's a bit lackluster and could be implimented in far more interesting ways.

[RoddusMS]

All they do is release something cool and ruin it afterwards because (as Van Halen would say...) Oh, whoa, whoa, noobs are crying!

Instead of playing the game. The noobs cry and DE ruins the game of those who were playing before to attend to what they are being cried for.
T-T

Edited January 15, 2015 by warlock_roddus

[manub]

All they do is release something cool and ruin it afterwards because (as Van Halen would say...) Oh, whoa, whoa, noobs are crying!

Instead of playing the game. The noobs cry and DE ruins the game of those who were playing before to attend to what they are being cried for.

T-T

not quite agreeing, balancing is needed in this game for a lot of things

 

the dmg/multishot mods are as of now mandatory to any player that want to go high lvl (T4,...) 

while this doesn't bother me a lot (playing since U7, or U5 I don't remember), it is sort of annoying as if you don't have them, you lose/are forced to leave mission early. & it limits the builds you can use

 

I would welcome some sort of other system that would make damage naturally evolve with affinity progression with weapon, & suppress the dmg mods (multishot mods couldn't be easily replaced though), but I have no idea what that system could be. maybe focus will improve that

[Pandoran_Stallion]

All they do is release something cool and ruin it afterwards because (as Van Halen would say...) Oh, whoa, whoa, noobs are crying!

Instead of playing the game. The noobs cry and DE ruins the game of those who were playing before to attend to what they are being cried for.

T-T

? I'm a little confused.

[Tyrian3k]

Hoo, quote war, things are heating up.

Fixed.

 

First, nothing is mandatory in a game, you play as you want and what content you want, so the mandatory part is not true; if you find serration boring then don't use it and play accordingly.

I have been in WF since the start of open beta and my serration is still at rank 9, the tenth one is simply not worth the cost when there are lots of other things to spend creds/cores on.

 

Second, I didn't wrote about crit damage but crit chance and all other stats, and you didn't answer about that, only about crit damage.

Considering how vehement you are, I'm surprised you are not more thorough to prove me wrong on this very topic.

 

Third, since the beginning you assert all kind of things without ever proving they are true or they will come to pass, you have no way to know a 30% serration will always be used in a build for an example.

You've done it multiple times in this thread.

 

Last, I'm against removal of content if it can be avoided by principle (less game content is less entertainment) and contrary to what you said since the beginning of this thread you never proved base damage mods cannot be fixed or are unfun, you only repeat it ad nauseam without ever proving it.

 

Basically, I'm not convinced at all by what you wrote.

 

1. Yes it is. Why? Because you'll only deal about half your damage without it. If you think it isn't mandatory, please go ahead and find me players who say that not putting Serration on  a weapon in favour of another mod will make it more effective.

 

2. I already covered other mods by saying that those don't apply to every situation equally like Serration does, or have a drawback on them.

Let me explain, though: Critical hits are by definition unreliable, so you will always have hits that deal more damage and those that deal less damage. A weapon with exactly 100% crit chance would defy the point of critical hits.

Reload speed only applies in fights that actually involve reloading in the first place. If you can kill everything in one clip, using that mod was useless in that situation.

Fire rate mods increase your dps, just like Serration, but you have the drawback of having to control more recoil and will end up wasting your ammo faster than without it.

Punch through should be self-explanatory. Every time your enemies aren't behind something, it won't help.

 

Just a few examples. I won't go and cover every single mod here.

 

3. It's my opinion, so demanding proof for that is utterly silly, but to explain my reasoning: Faction mods are generally worth using against the faction they're for and give 30% damage boosts, so a mod that does that against all factions will still be used.

 

 

 

You say that less content is less fun, which is fine if all content has its uses and nothing is essential in every situation, but looking at it right now, we have a huge pile of useless junk because DE doesn't balance it.

[Crond]

Upvoting. This is a brilliant idea!

[Quizel]

I've always felt like these standard high cost mods track ones progression. Once it's max'ed, you essentially reached maximum level. This is a good thing in rpg like genre. The bad part is that it's not a very interesting mod choice. Because space is limited, modding should have some decision making involved and user preference. For these reasons, these types of mods should be removed but a new system or mod (systems or mods) should be implemented which rewards progression within the game-specifically for weapon performance. 

 

 

Some other mods that track progression are redirection and Vitality but they are defensive. What I meant to say is that offensive mods like Serration give a much greater sense of progression than mods like Vitality. If it gets removed something has to fill that void of making my gun feel stronger as I progress.

 

(insert long winded debate about the game doesn't need such a thing to be fun but I think it's better if it did)

[ArsVampyre]

While I favor this idea heavily, we do need to acknowledge that this is essentially an across the board weapon buff. How is it a buff for secondaries? It's an extra mod-slot.

 

To be honest, this has needed to be done for a while; there are some absurd differences in mods for weapon types that don't make sense; why is cold damage for melee weapons so much weaker for the cost? Why is there so much available multi-round and damage for secondary weapons? These odd quirks have made secondary weapons the best weapons in the game for long periods of time (excepting a few extraordinary weapons like Boltor Prime, Phage, etc). Why do frames gain health, shields, and energy with level, but weapons get nothing but mod points?  This fixes all those things, and brings weapons more in-line with each other for theorycrafting. 

 

I do think there are ways of fixing this disparity that don't involve weapon buffs, but all of them instead involve weapon nerfs, and I hate nerfing anything. One of the unique things that makes playing warframe so fun is the real and visible differences small changes can make because of how weapon damage bonuses boost off each other; i.e. elemental damage taking into account base damage increases from mods. Take that away, and warframe loses a lot of flavor.

 

This would also allow a 'primed serration' that's just basically serration again, or some other base weapon damage mod the way shotguns have a few mods that add to base damage (blaze, vicious spread, etc). Why is that good?

 

Because there's a lot of fun to be had in being powerful; in feeling powerful and working toward a long term goal which results in a large boost and a feeling of value in that work. Ranking up serration now gives that feeling, but it makes serration a requirement on every rifle. This alter's that equation; making utility mods more useful and more likely to be used.