Pickup 2.0 : A Pickup System Feedback And Suggestion By Einde

[LascarCapable]

With the current mod system, you are able to improve your warframe into an incredible war machine. Vitality can boost your health above 1000 for the right frames, Flow extends your energy pool to an incredible amount... The devs also keep addsing weapons that are sometimes tweaked for the better and the worst. Yet, the pickup system barely moved, and let's face it : the pickup system shows some evident flaws, even more noticeable when you are an old player.

 

First of all, the health orbs : They are healing you for a fixed amount : 25 health. But what's 25 health when you have 450 max health as a Zephyr ? Not a lot heh ? Now imagine if you pack a maxed vitality on your zephyr : above 1100 health, and an orb still gives you 25 health no matter what. That flaw always made me grinning dumbly...

 

Let's now talk about energy pickups : A rework is much more debatable for those ones due to the way warframe powers works. When you start the game, a single energy orb allows you to cast your first power (and sometimes more powers) once. Further in the game you may be able to cast your first power 4 times before running out with a single orb thanks to Fleeting Expertise and Streamline. The thing is, you have also a mod called flow that buffs your energy pool by a large amount : this gives you an harder time at fully replenishing your energy with only orbs, but does not really matter a lot on your power consumption...

 

Last of them : the ammo pickups : A new trend from DE is to release or tweak weapons with an extended or reduced base ammo pool. It's fine, but for a lot of weapon the ammo pickup system may not follow this. We had a good exemple with the release version of the Kohm : horrendeous ammo efficiency, low amount of ammo grabbed per shotgun pickups and fairly low chances to grab a shotgun ammo pickup made that weapon almost impossible to use once you totally depleated it.

 

To solve everything, I am suggesting those changes :

- Heath pickups are now max health percentage based rather than fixed number based. Lowest amount of health gained is hardcapped to 25 in order to avoid harder starts for beginners. That change would be an indirect buff to Nekros, Oberon and Trinity's Well of Life augment.

- Ammo pickups are now max ammo pool percentage based rather than fixed number based. Lowest amount of ammo gained would still remain the base one to avoid harder starts for beginners.

- Introduction of a warframe mod that increase the amount of energy gained from a single orb. It would be nice as a 10 rank mod IMO. This with flow would just make a good enough alternative to efficiency builds in my opinion, that currently dominates a bit everywhere. If you feel like the two first suggestions are bad, you can also make that mod extending the amount of heatlh and ammo gained from health and ammo pickup.

 

I also think that with the most recent update, some new pickups could be released. An overshield pickup may be nice too see in game for exemple.

 

That's pretty much everything. :)

[counterflux]

I like this.

 

so there is an option for streamline + fleeting expertise + new energy orb increase mod? could be overpowered maybe.

[LascarCapable]

I like this.

 

so there is an option for streamline + fleeting expertise + new energy orb increase mod? could be overpowered maybe.

 

You're using 3 mod slots, heh. And actually I don't feel like it's useful to equip the new orb mod when you have already a max efficiency build. :p

[counterflux]

You're using 3 mod slots, heh.

If 3 mods causes booben to do 8 vortexes with only one orb for example.

 

(it would spam the whole map)

Edited January 15, 2015 by counterflux

[Lactamid]

I'll give it a +1

Had a similar thought about a mod that increased pickup values before.
 

Field Medic - Reduces the time nearby allies suffers froms status procs, speeds up reviving, increases health gained by Orbs.

Uncommon 5.

- Proc time (%): 15/20/25/30/35/40

- Revive time (%): 15/20/25/30/35/40

Bonus health from orbs: 5/7/9/11/13/15

Range: 5m

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/271083-co-op-mods-not-auras/

[-Ropefish-]

yes please ;a;

 

will make those re glowy balls useful!

[Phoenix86]

Coming from Diablo, where most of the pickups are % based i can only agree with this suggestion.

 

Numbers are debatable but i think something along 10% (of max, not of base, value) should be good for HP and Energy

 

Ammos should take in account also rarity:

 

Rifle/Pistol ammos = 5%

Shotgun/Sniper ammos = 10%

[LascarCapable]

If 3 mods causes booben to do 8 vortexes with only one orb for example.

 

(it would spam the whole map)

 

If it's for the glory of Booben I'd do anything !

[(PSN)Drakiza]

Even when you account the aura mods (energy siphon, rejuvenate, and the scavengers) I still think this would be very useful as a whole.

[Centias]

To solve everything, I am suggesting those changes :

- Heath pickups are now max health percentage based rather than fixed number based. Lowest amount of health gained is hardcapped to 25 in order to avoid harder starts for beginners. That change would be an indirect buff to Nekros, Oberon and Trinity's Well of Life augment.

- Ammo pickups are now max ammo pool percentage based rather than fixed number based. Lowest amount of ammo gained would still remain the base one to avoid harder starts for beginners.

- Introduction of a warframe mod that increase the amount of energy gained from a single orb. It would be nice as a 10 rank mod IMO. This with flow would just make a good enough alternative to efficiency builds in my opinion, that currently dominates a bit everywhere. If you feel like the two first suggestions are bad, you can also make that mod extending the amount of heatlh and ammo gained from health and ammo pickup.

 

I also think that with the most recent update, some new pickups could be released. An overshield pickup may be nice too see in game for exemple.

 

I'm not sure what I think on the energy pickups, but I wouldn't want another 10 rank mod. There's already too many of those to level, and they often take up too much mod capacity. But I do like the concept of improving the value of pickups. Maybe call it Scavenger or Survivalist or something if it improves all pickups.

 

For ammo pickups, I've said basically the same thing before, except I thought it should be based on Rate of Fire and/or Magazine Capacity. Grakata with its insane rate of fire needs to be getting like 40 ammo per pickup.

 

Health pickups should have scaled with mission difficulty or something at least. Low level content, 25 health is fine. 30s, 40s and beyond, it hardly dents the health pools for most frames or the damage you take.

 

And a shield pickup would be wonderful for the frames that are more shield-reliant, scaling in the same way health orbs should and applying to overshield if you're at max shields.

[jjpdn]

Sadly... all of those suggestions were done multiple of time agos, and DE still hasn't done them. I do believe that it's on their to-do list though, even if they haven't said anything (i think, i don't watch the livestreams). 

 

Still, I'm +1-ing just like all the other posts before you.

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

You're using 3 mod slots, heh. And actually I don't feel like it's useful to equip the new orb mod when you have already a max efficiency build. :p

We can already cast ultimates for one orb. Imagine if we could cast two or three with one orb? For many frames, it doesn't matter what they lose, because they'll gain even more strength with ultimates. It's already easy to Bladestorm for 40 or 50 minutes in survival without stopping, or to Miasma everything into melting away, when the cost is low. Being able to do it multiple times per orb makes an already broken power spam system worse.

Other than that, I agree with the OP.

Edited January 16, 2015 by (PS4)WiiConquered

[Bernkastal]

Good thoughts, but I fear it'll be a bit lower in priority till they address a few more things. This IS the year of 2.0- I mean quality, so...

[Loswaith]

I agree with the health increase from orbs (likely 10% or 25 whichever is lowest per orb) but I think energy is already fine as it is.

An alternative to health orbs could be gain a base 25 points and +10% regen of your maximum health over time, thus 10 seconds of 1% health gain per second for example.  This way in the heat of battle health orbs really arent any better than currently but in light or no combat it can bring that health up more than it does now.

 

That said larger ammounts could be done my making equlibrium more efficent (or makign pickups with it more efficient as well as the conversion) in that at about rank 5/6 equlibrium would give 100% conversion, and have it increase from there (say about 15% conversion per rank).  Of course we would want to be able to pick up orbs when health/energy is low but the other correlatting to the orb collected is full, to gain benefit for this.

[Burnthesteak87]

snip

I totally agree with you.

I'll add more. Setting the Energy Orb to restore a percentage of your own energy, would also improve the utility of Flow and high Power Warframes... But this also touch the ratio between Warframe power, skills cost and spammability. Can't say if from it can come out something abusable.

(PS: If this would become real, there should also be a buff to Flow Mod to make it also reduce the amount of energy drained by enemies).

Also the Ammo matter is a mess... I'd like they would actually let enemies drop less ammo packs, but with a more relevant number of ammos. Or maybe stop dropping em around so frequently and making them come out every X enemies or waves. Or from specific units (similar to the excavation Energy carriers). So people would stop spamming and start making economy.

This would force the player on using the brain more.

PS: Why not... Ammos only from Lockers and Chests.

 

Edited January 16, 2015 by Burnthesteak87

[fatpig84]

Ammo doesn't matter to me.

I in Red Veil, I bleed large ammo packs.

Lawl.

 

But before doing health orb via a percentage, I wish they will just drop as frequent as Archwings in the first place though.

[Cyberspace100]

"2015 will be a year of quality for Warframe";-Steve Sinclair 2015

 

I like the changes and i do think they will come into effect very soon. But i dont want another rank 10 mod, thats more grind and we dont wan that. 5 ranks like split chamber would do just fine, otherwise +1.

[Quizel]

- Ammo pickups are now max ammo pool percentage based rather than fixed number based. Lowest amount of ammo gained would still remain the base one to avoid harder starts for beginners.

 

 

Finally some attention on this topic >.<. High RoF weapons either need to cause absolutely devastating wreckage as a trade off (probably bad thing to do that) or less punishing do to poor ammo economy. But I think high RoF weapons also gain the advantage in combat of being able to clear groups quickly and shouldn't have equivalent ammo economy to weapons like Latron.  In terms of balance it's tricky business.

 

Anyway, my suggestion would be FIXED_VALUE + VARIABLE_VALUE.

 

The VARIABLE_VALUE could be based on either max ammo pool or just a special value assign to each weapon (granted the ammo pool somewhat already could serve as that special value, but with special values assigned you can tweak it more-but would be confusing to players- Variable_Value based on max ammo capacity best). 

 

As in for weapons like BP and other fairly high teir/efficiency weapons they'd end up exactly where they're at.  For weapons like Grakata, DUAL CESTRA, and Glaxion, they'd get a huge boost from the VARIABLE_VALUE. 

 

One suggestion said that the value picked up should be based soley on RoF.  This would be bad for weapons like Grinlok that truely shine in ammo eccon. Fixed Value + VARIABLE based on RoF could be another solution. 

 

 

Oh, and similar thoughts apply to health/energy pick ups as well. Fix'ed plus variable

Edited January 16, 2015 by Quizel

[Lukap99]

This is needed.

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[Feallike]

Isn't their a mod that can double the amount of healing from Health orbs and energy from energy orbs. x.x

 

 

Equilibrium.... ya you know that mod that no one uses. x.x

 

 

Edit: sorry it only gives 27.5% more energy/health from orbs..... even worse! x.x

Edited January 16, 2015 by Feallike

[Azamagon]

I really like your health orb change. That'd be neat.

 

I wouldn't mind that ammo revamp either, as long as it doesn't cause more problems than it fixes.

 

+1

[SvZz]

1+ even tho I hardly ever need health or ammo, I rarely get hit play a lot of CC warframes and sheild>health for me. A mod that gives more energy on pick up seems like a wast, their are a lot of ways to get energy in my opinion. I would say let them put time into something more useful + people will cry as always.

Tho these ideas have been given a long time ago, still the same 2015 *cough*. A LOT needs to be reworked to keep up with the game.

Quality over Quantity I would really like if DE make a test server because they clearly don't test anything in-game, always have to buff or nerf or fix something after a update. Will never happen because they need to release new stuff every moment for this never ending mastery and grind they created on themselfs. Sorry about going off topic/rant.

[Firetempest]

I would like two new generic drops that look different than orbs. Like the first being Void energy Residue as the void seems to permeate the whole origin system due to the orokin. And the second being sentient related health residue.

You have specific stance like mod slot on how your frame absorbs this Residue. It neither adds nor subtracts mod points.

1. Inhalation. Instant addition of health+energy by a % in contacting residue

2. Absorption. residue regenerates health+energy over time. A % per second that would be higher overall then option 1 but takes time.

3. Ingestion. Instant health, slow absorption for greater energy

4. injection. Slow absorption greater health. Instant energy.

We could all start with 1. then the other options can be introduced via early quests.

Then you have your host of mods that can boost and modify values for mod points.

Edited January 17, 2015 by Firetempest

[Seffard]

So what are the restore kits for? Arent they enough? Regarding the Khom's ammo efficiency it is just an unusual downside people have to deal with.

I dont see what's the point in all this.

Edited January 17, 2015 by Seffard

[unknow99]

Salut Einde,

 

now that I read that, it makes sooo much sense!! I'm with you on this!

 

+1.

 

When things scale, fixed values are meaningless.

Edited January 17, 2015 by unknow99