Staple Mods Are Ruining The Game

[DeMeritus]

Do you guys have any ideas? do you even agree in the point i'm making?

Discuss!

 

According to the forums, the game has been ruined since before closed beta ever finished.

 

Name something, anything, and it's ruined the game, somehow.

 

Just keep playing enjoy your gear, and carry on.  You'll find something new to ruin the game, I'm sure.

[Xeo_Nespydonum]

I agree, more players would be likely to use more unique builds if serration didn't exist.  Some mod types just need buffs, like Rush for instance,  Rush, Marathon, acrobat, quick rest, so on and so forth should just be one big mod that takes more drain and gives all the buffs.

[Lancars]

But... my Primed Point blank D:

[fractal_magnets]

500 hours on steam does not reflect time played.

Wish people would stop using this as a measuring tool, it's meaningless.

[Mazrim]

Do you guys have any ideas? do you even agree in the point i'm making?

Discuss!

Yeah. Stop making these posts. Here's what's going to happen. They'll remove Serration/Split Chamber/Shred, etc from the game with zero compensation. Then the forums will be full of rage and more S#&$posts about how the olden times were better. Then the next nerftrain will be Warframe powers and something stupid like Cool Downs will be implemented. I didn't ask for this when I threw my money into the game. I don't want what people are whining about. You want build diversity? Go ahead and "Build your diversity." Then when your garbage builds proceed to suck, come the forums and complain about that.

 

And quite honestly, nobody uses utility mods because there's no reason for them. Most weapons reload in two-three seconds, you can reload cancel with ease with just about every weapon with a few exceptions. I don't need extra magazine capacity. I don't need extra max ammo. I don't need better reload speed. Or recoil control, or status chance, etc.

 

Back in Damage 1.0, weapons overall did less damage. Sure you had your rainbow builds but here's the thing. There was no poison damage mods. All we had was Fire/ice/shock. And it was cool. Status chance mods were stun chance where an enemy staggered like impact weapons do. If you want to complain about how people "do too much damage," why don't we go back to the old system? That was when a level 40 grineer was immune to everything but specific weapons. It'll be great!

 

 

Something that has been bugging me quite a lot since some time now and this is how the need for staple mods such as at least one mod for durability (Vitality, Redirection, Steel Fiber and/or Vigor), Flow and Streamline, and stuff such as continuity, intensify and stretch. fill out the last 2-4 slots with a few corrupted mods or utility mods such as rage or quick thinking and you got your uninspired generic warframe build.

 

 

 

Possible Fixes for this would be: In Closed Beta there was no mod system, but instead some kind of skilltree where you could spend points on direct upgrades to the weapons instead of mounting mods. mods like serration or split chamber could be exported to a special environment for THOSE mods so the regular slots are free for utility mods such as status chance / duration, magazine capacity, total ammo, etc.

 

No, the skill tree wasn't even CLOSE to that. You had random mods that, my personal favorite was the 500% Multishot that worked on primaries AND sidearms. Then another mod that was +1200% shields. That stuff was hilarious. Skill points merely picked your unlock paths to benefit either your Warframe or your weapons. But hey, you restore the old system, I'll go get a 500% multishot mod and a 300% weapon damage mod. Then this thread will come right back up about how some Loki Prime came in and single handedly invalidated the rest of the team with a Mk. 1 Braton.

 

The "Staple Warframe" build is a thing because why don't you want to be tankier and with better powers? For what? Maglev, a mod that's terrible because coptering exists, or the parkour mods that are for the most part useless due to melee air attacks? More over, you're asking to reduce customization. I have my frames tweaked specifically for what they're built to do. Why yes, this DOES mean I have three different Loki builds, three different Rhino Prime builds, etc.

 

Stop thinking that our frames are "overpowered" and start looking at the mods themselves. 80% of them can be removed from the game with no negative impact because they're just that bad.

 

I mean, hell, Heavy Impact doesn't even work with Super Jump or Tailwind.

[Mazrim]

I agree, more players would be likely to use more unique builds if serration didn't exist.  Some mod types just need buffs, like Rush for instance,  Rush, Marathon, acrobat, quick rest, so on and so forth should just be one big mod that takes more drain and gives all the buffs.

Go on Warframe Builder and give me a "Unique Weapon Build." 

 

Do not use Status/Elemental mods, do not use Serration, Shred, or Multishot. Do not use Heavy Caliber. Don't use their sidearm equivalents either.

Edited January 17, 2015 by Mazrim

[UltimateSpinDash]

By removing Serration and "integrating" it into a weapon, you basically give everyone another mod slot. People will still use the mods that are best for that weapon, wether it's adding more damage or fixing a flaw the weapon has, like a long reload.

[PookieNumnums]

If you remove the staple mods we will be weaker. With the excess space we will compensate with mods that are being sacrificed to achieve our current builds. The power creep will be immediate. If ranking the gear increases the power all the grind weve put into maxing those mods will be wasted even if we get core refunds as most of the mods that need core s are the staple ones. Adding a damage increase with rank makes no sense.

A gun doesn't shoot harder the more times you fire it. With mods in a small way we are physically augmenting the gun by installing the modules.

I'd be ok with adding things like improved handling and accuracy as you increase your affinity win the weapon. If they remove serration all weapons should just get a 165% base dmg buff .

Warframe s are a different story. I believe the frames shield energies health stamina and shield regeneration as well as movement speed should all be attained with the ranking system. As your affinity win the suit goes up it's performance should. Either way you would still have the problem of using all the modules that we have to leave off now and the builds we have would be even more ridiculous.

There aren't enough unique Utility mods and situations to require practical application of those mods we'd use but don't have cu they don't exist.

[Tymerc]

All I ask is that they give us Legendary Cores at the very least. I personally have had to collect R5/Cores in general since late 2013 to max out a variety of Mods that have 10 ranks. Removing them without compensating that much time would actually upset me, which never happens in regards to this game.

[SleepingSentry]

I have to disagree.  The only mod all of my frames all use is streamline.  Though I'd be happy if we got another mod slot or 2, just for augments or utility.

 

Guns are just not very exciting to mod to begin with.  There's mods for fire rate, reload speed, status, damage, crit, and ammo, with a few random ones for more flavor.  If there's some way you want your gun to lean then no problem.  

 

Ice storm on castanas for 3 shots before reload instead of 2 makes a big difference for me.  On hek I use tactical pump, a meager 30% reload increase...but for how much damage every shot packs and how small the clip is, it works for me.  Ogris I use the anemic agility or whatever it's called for rifles, the damage loss for more charging speed on top of speed trigger is fine w/ me.  Personally I don't use heavy caliber except on automatic rifles and ignis, though I always use speed trigger on bows.  

 

I could go on, I could mod differently, except nothing really changes.  It's still the gun firing practically the same way it always has, no matter how you mod it, it just does its job slightly better.  All guns crap out unless you are stacking banshee and nova debuffs, in which case no guns or mods for them are bad...so what difference does it make?

 

Lastly - a lot of mods are just bad even if they were buffed.  The hacking mod is crap, who cares if it is 100 seconds extra to hack. Same goes for resistances, stamina (the system needs an overhaul - not the stamina mods), reduce reload to 0 if you have a clip with 200 bullets in it then it would still be pointless to mod for, etc.

 

New mods would be nice.  New damage types especially would be amazing.  Corrosive is all my weapons are ever set up for, there's never any need to switch elements really unless you're all using corrosive projection (in which case it's just swapped to viral).  Not like I'm ever going to run a 3 hour corpus mission.  All the status effects are not really all that good, not worth building around - just taken for the elemental weakness for the most part, though I usually throw in heat if there's room.  

 

So if any mods need revamping, I'd say it's the elemental damage ones (along with enemy weakness and status effect overhaul). It's incredibly illogical how some elemental mods are 60% and others are 90%.  

Edited January 17, 2015 by SleepingSentry

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

Moved to a more appropriate subforum.

[weak_man_small_hands]

Bah! This is nothing, you should play Magic: The Gathering....

 

Player 1: I wan't to make a Standard deck but I don't know what to build.

 

Player 2: Well you're gonna want Plains, Forest and Swamp, and as many Siege Rhino and Whip of Erebos' as possible.

 

Player 1: Abzan Whip, I heard a lot of people are playing that, but how does it work?

Player 2: Well, you're mainly gonna whip the Rhino. But sometimes, you might have to whip the Rhino. And when you're in trouble, you need to stay calm, and whip the Rhino.

Oh, but if you're playing against Temur Midrange, you need to whip Hornet Queen.


+1 if you understand any of that at all.

[Charaiter]

The issue you are talking about is not necessary a flow. All kinds of modes were never intended to be used, as I guess, However, we still need those "bad" or underused modes to contrast the really good ones. There should always be a plethora of different modes just to constitute a variety but they all don't have to be useful. As people have already pointed out no matter what changes are to come (if any) there would always be the most effective solutions. 

[existentialvoid]

we will still min/max.

 

while I agree with the spirit of the idea, practically speaking, we will almost always settle for 'best' builds no matter how many slots we have.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

You know what cracks me up? People complain about OP gear. DE creates OP-resistant mob types. Community complains about mob types. Rinse. Repeat. If a 5% buff per mod level is too much, then let DE test 4% or 3% as per aura mods.

Also, making other mods competitive is the best theory, but implementation/balancing is time-intensive. Rock-Paper-Scissors strategies will become more prominent I suspect. Rather than stacking endless damage types, I can see more restrictions on stacking damage types so players have to be more dependent on each other. This also requires more mob diversity.

[CY13ERPUNK]

welcome to the party OP

 

while i disagree on the frame mods for the most part, as things like vitality/redirection/etc are not absolutely essential, since there are several alternatives and/or you can build frames either to have better 'stats' or to buff their abilities and use those to survive

 

with weapons however, there is no such alternatives, you have to build weapons for dmg, and the core base dmg mods are 'required', this is the problem with modding weapons in warframe atm, and it's been this way for almost 2 yrs now =/ (since weapons do not gain inherent stat upgrades as they rank 1-30, like frames do ; which always bugged me, the frames were almost immediately adjusted after the mod card swap from the CB tree upgrade system, but weapons have never been addressed... just kind of blows my mind)

 

im not against the possibility of giving the frames 1-2 dedicated augment slots and/or 1-2 dedicated 'utility' slots, but that's almost a seperate issue IMO

Edited January 17, 2015 by CY13ERPUNK

[MonkeyWaffles]

Suggestion:

 

Remove polarities. Instead, introduce mod slots for specific body parts (ie legs, arms, head, skin, shield gen, etc) as well as a few generic slots. a mod is only slottable either in their specific body part (ie, rush slotted in the legs) or the generic slots. forma-ing moves a slot from the generic slot to the specific bodypart slot. Mods slotted in the approrpiate bodypart slot uses half the mod cost, similar to how polarities work. The number of generic slots cannot be increased beyond their starting base. As well, increase the number of mod slots.

 

This will open up slots that can only be used for specific mod types (like polarities) and would increase the usage of currently often unused mods.

 

 

[Xennocide420]

12 mod slots

[Dillon_J]

for warframes yes but weapons no. all my weapon builds tend to be very different though i do only use 10 or so weapons and tend to toss the rest due to not liking them or just being a gimick weapon.

[Inez]

Guy plays Warframes for awhile, but one day it dawns on him just how many credits/cores it will take to rank up Serration/Hornet Strike to rank 10. 

 

Much easier to post on forums then farm up that many cores/credits.

[Prany]

Guy plays Warframes for awhile, but one day it dawns on him just how many credits/cores it will take to rank up Serration/Hornet Strike to rank 10. 

So he ranks it up to rank 7 or 8 and leaves it there until enough wealth is amassed for further ranking. That's what I did and with unfinished Serration and few elemental mods I could waltz through starchart with zero problems.

 

This whole "ranking staple mods is sooo hard and much progression" is highly overestimated. Unless a brickhead, you should understand when (hint: reaching rank 7 is easy peasy) divert your resources from ranking R10 mods to something more usefull. 

[CY13ERPUNK]

Guy plays Warframes for awhile, but one day it dawns on him just how many credits/cores it will take to rank up Serration/Hornet Strike to rank 10. 

 

Much easier to post on forums then farm up that many cores/credits.

 

you are completely missing the entire point of the issue, sadly your attempt at marginalizing a srs game design flaw is only going to encourage others who dont see/understand it fully to not take the matter srsly as well =/

[Vicious_Raptor]

Inb4 16 mod slots, 50 base mod points increased to 100 with a Catalyst, watcha gonna do?

People will use the same damage mods as right now, probably refusing to polarize further to fit in utility mods, since they surely are of help but don't make a big difference after all, exceptions made for extreme situations.

The true solution is far from being found, DE has been thinking on it for a while now, but they either F*** up the entire game or do something that most players, who have their maxed R10 mods (me included) wouldn't approve at all. So I'm just waiting for a devstream where they state what they came up with, fingers crossed.

[Kithawk]

I don't want to see some solution that slashes what we have. However the range of usefulness of mods currently ranges from amazing to I wouldn't use that if I had 40 slots and 300 power. What I propose will create more variety and will encourage use of those medium and low value mods. We create 3 tiers A, B and C. You put the top 12-20 in Tier A you leave the number of slots the same. You then add 4-6 new slots for tier B mods and add an additional 15-30 points that can only be used on those slots. You do the same for tier C mods another 4-6 spots with 15-30 points for those. 

 

You hold an online pole to determine which mods will be in each of the 3 tiers. In addition you need to create balance among those mods take for example the B mods which might encompass things like Antitoxin. You can make sure the energy cost is equal to the usefulness or you can make all tier B mods start at a 2 energy cost up to 5-9 energy depending on how many upgrade levels you want. Then balance them all based on the new 2- 7ish range.

 

Make the C mods start from 0 energy up to 3-7 energy. Then balance those. Now you have something interesting. Maybe as many as 22 mods on a Warframe without hurting play balance. Yes all frames will be more powerful but still balanced and with great options for diversity. I'd love to see someone with more skill than me create the pole so we can vote on which mods could go in each category.

 

I just checked and there are exactly 48 mods for Warframe's which would make a perfect 16 in each tier. I'd actually love to review my middle and bottom 16 mods and get to choose which 4-6 I think will help my frame without having to sacrifice a key mod I already use.

 

The same system can be done for the weapons but perhaps with fewer slots since we start with 8 instead of 10 I'd suggest no more than 4 B's and 4 C's but even that is open to debate.

 

Just for fun here is my list of the tiers A: Fleeting Expertise, Blind Rage, Overextended, Narrow Minded, Trasient Fortitude, Continuity, Constitution, Stretch, Intensity, Flow, Streamline, Vitality, Vigor, Redirection, Rage, Steel Fiber.

 

B Mods: Antitoxin, Diamond Skin, Flame Repellent, Insulation, Lightning Rod, Reflection, Fast Deflection, Fortitude, Natural Talent, Quick Thinking, Thief's Wit, Master Thief, Sure Footed, Reflex Guard, Retribution, Heavy Impact.

 

C Mods: Acrobat, Aviator, Handspring, Warm Coat, Undying Will, Provoked, Shock Absorbers, Marathon, Rush, Maglev, Quick Rest, Shield Flux, Rapid Resistance, Intruder, Enemy Sense, Equilibrium.

 

The bottom 2 groups might need some tweaking since I'm not too familiar with most of them because I've never used most of them.

 

Respectable feedback is welcome.

 

[KyrosQF]

Hi, get off the forums and get off jupiter missions.

Let me assure you, the players at the apex of this game are greatly outnumbered by people like yourself who have very little understanding or comprehension of depth of content.

Make it to at least 2 hours in a survival/defence in the void and tell me that staple mods need to be adjusted. Sure serration is total overkill on low level missions and anyone can buy serration but the amount of players who take that step and take on the true challenges in this game understand very well that the mod system at the moment is fine.

If serration/hornet strike was built in and at level 30 on the gun you had 165% damage increase i could live with that freeing up a slot and offering more diversity in builds but knowing DE they will probably do something stupid and F*** over a lot of people and simply offer them legendary cores to keep the masses happy.

 

No one suggested removing them and replacing them with nothing. Just having a fixed 7% damage increase per level (210% at level 30) would do the following...

 

1. Even up the disparity that secondary weapons have over primaries and melee (don't pretend there isn't one).

 

2. People can level up their weapons by actually using them!

 

3. New players won't get punished so severely for not getting their first Serration or Hornet Strike.

 

 

As for Redirection and Vitality, there's a better solution. Cut the mod effectiveness in half, double the base health and shields on warframes. Players using the mods will still have the same health and shields as they do now and some players can opt out of these mods without being brutally punished.

Edited April 6, 2015 by KyrosQF