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[DE]Grineeer

Ember: Surviving Canadian Winters

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So, Ember. Ember is one of our oldest Warframes and her abilities and stats are often a 'hot' discussion item. Her model, powers, stats have received changes in the past, and we find ourselves back again taking a look at what we can tweak.

 

Here are some coming changes to Ember that you'll be able to try out soon, we're hoping to have these shipped in a week or two on PC:

 

Statistic Changes:

-          Base Stamina increased to 150.

-          Base armour increased to 100 (125 for Ember Prime)

-          Movement Speed increase.

 

Ability Changes:

-          Fire Blast has had a mechanic added. In addition to placing a ring of fire on casting location, it -will now also generate a growing wall of fire (like the Arson Eximus ability).

-          World On Fire is now a toggle ability with a 50 Energy cost on cast. It will drain energy over time as well as consider your power duration (affected by mods).

-          World on Fire has had its casting time reduced.

 

As usual... this is all subject to change, this is just a quick look at what the plans are.

 

You just erased all the disadvantages this frame has.

So this next obvious question is, when are you going to remove the disadvantages of all other frames that still have them?

At this point all frames should all have the same stats and the thing that makes them different will be how they react to the mods when equipped. Rhino gets better bonuses to armor compared to Ember. Ember gets better bonuses to flow than Excalibur does.

Because if you are going to erase disadvantages it's all about the bonus, then.

 

Anyway, RiP Ember.

You taught me to actually run-n-gun in this game.

It was really fun running in and out of close combat with Overheat.

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You just erased all the disadvantages this frame has.

So this next obvious question is, when are you going to remove the disadvantages of all other frames that still have them?

At this point all frames should all have the same stats and the thing that makes them different will be how they react to the mods when equipped. Rhino gets better bonuses to armor compared to Ember. Ember gets better bonuses to flow than Excalibur does.

Because if you are going to erase disadvantages it's all about the bonus, then.

 

Anyway, RiP Ember.

You taught me to actually run-n-gun in this game.

It was really fun running in and out of close combat with Overheat.

So you feel after these changes she wont still be a glass cannon? I have to disagree on that and nope... even after these glorious changes she still wont be the best frame in the game by a long shot but she can finally get off being on practically EVERYONES bottom tier.

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Would still like to see her fireblast to create an area that deals damage to enemies INSIDE it instead of ON THE BORDER of it. Just never made sense to me, you have to overlap a ton of them all over the place or it deals no damage because enemies run straight through it and barely take any damage.

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While I find this good.. I am realising that all these toggle ults makes Continuity a bit useless.

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I'm kinda worried about the toggleable WoF. Before I could just activate it and spam Accelerant while running around. The toggeable WoF will make it a tad harder as I will most likely run out of energy pretty fast. I can't get energy while the WoF is active and Accelerant isn't free either.

 

So all in all I would have stick with the current WoF, but the rest of the changes seem good enough.

Edited by Judqment8

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While I find this good.. I am realising that all these toggle ults makes Continuity a bit useless.

 

If I'm reading the post correctly, it does state it will 'Consider your power duration'. This at least seems to imply that it will function like Prism, which has a Duration component. Either it'll be World on Fire will now have a Minimum duration and the Toggle trait is the 'extra time', or perhaps establish the interval between 'payout' per explosion.

 

Can't say really, but Duration is still useful for stuff like Accelerant, and now potentially Fire Blast.

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So you feel after these changes she wont still be a glass cannon? I have to disagree on that and nope...

 

With 100 armor she is only in the bottom of the list of the highest armor ratings in the game.

There are only about 5 frames that have better armor than her.

So i have to ask.... what's your definition of glass cannon?

Her shields werent change but... she got 100 armor!

 

 

even after these glorious changes she still wont be the best frame in the game by a long shot but she can finally get off being on practically EVERYONES bottom tier.

 

I never said anything about "best" i was discussing balance.

And it would be interesting seeing the percentage of players playing Ember.

I actually see her regularly. In fact, i was just in a mission a day ago with two of them.

 

 

My point is that they are slowly stripping away old warframe where there were frames that were easier to use and some that required a bit more dedication.

Back when i started it was just like an old side scroller beat-em-up game. You had one character that was easier to play, one in the middle, and one that was more difficult to play. If DE is going to strip all of that i dont know why they are slowly going one frame at a time. Might as well just do the whole lot. If they cant figure out a way to get more players using her, if this was a problem, besides just stripping away any disadvantage..... might as well just get rid of the frame.

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id recommend giving her a unique harder CC of somekind, not too dominating but better than the soft CC of accelerant and eximus firewall knockdown, to offset the severe elemental damage falloff that will still be prevalent after these great changes 

 

i know ember was always intended to be the pure raw damage destructive frail caster archetype warframe but its getting harder to hold onto these archetypes in the current environment anymore 

 

ex;

a blind effect for all enemies within 5m and LoS of any ember generated fire effects

persistent longer duration heat proc for a decent duration with panic effect minus the damage ticks

etc etc

 

people will keep asking for overheat defensive ability back or keep complaining about her ability in endgame content (damage falloff, no durability)

CC would allow us to see more embers on a meaningful level

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Been some time since Grineer posted in this forum section.

 

Her model got changes in the past? Are you refering to Blaze?

 

Well let's see.

General stat increases, nice.

 

Great now Ember does not need to have an inferiority complex anymore when looking at Eximus blasts. The knockback alone could make this a great defence tool, but also make it more usefull to use on the fly.

Though both the ring of fire and the blastwave might be a bit too strong. Let's see and change accordingly.

 

World on fire sounds good aswell.

Edited by Othergrunty

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I don't understand why everyone is so excited about these changes. None of these adress two of Ember's main issues: lack of damage and survivability.

 

"Statistic Changes:

-Base Stamina increased to 150.

-Base armour increased to 100 (125 for Ember Prime)

-Movement Speed increase."

 

Stamina and speed increases are really nice, but the armor change will be irrelevant.

 

"Ability Changes:

-Fire Blast has had a mechanic added. In addition to placing a ring of fire on casting location, it -will now also generate a growing wall of fire (like the Arson Eximus ability)."

 

That's a good one. Now, if the ring also knocks down enemies and applies the Fire Fright augment's effect... welcome back, Fire Blast! I'm always for more utility.

 

"-World On Fire is now a toggle ability with a 50 Energy cost on cast. It will drain energy over time as well as consider your power duration (affected by mods).

-World on Fire has had its casting time reduced."

 

What I like about this change is WoF becoming toggleable and reducing its painfully slow casting time. What bothers me is the part where it's affected by duration. It should not be. Ember is already relying on most if not all power modifiers, which means that trying to improve on one thing will inevitably lead to hurting all other aspects of an ability.

 

And please, bring back Overheat in one way or another. All other glass-cannon 'Frames have some kind of a power that keeps them alive (Sonic Boom, Hall of Mirrors, Eclipse, Molecular Prime, Shatter Shield etc.) - all except Ember.

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Any plans on giving the reworked Ember a passive or is that further down the line?

Yup, yupyupyup this guy raises a good point.

 

Ember controls fire, so it'd make sense that she's...Less affected by fire! (I know I know, easy logic)

 

Please mr Scott,some frames already got a passive so : elemental frames + % of elemental resistance = Win-win situation!

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Some interesting changes =O

 

I wonder if the eximus like blast will work on duration (like Nova's molecular prime) or range?

 

Curious as to see which ones make the final cut :)

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What about damage buff for World on Fire? Even Loki has more damage in his ult (500 damage to infested and some other enemies). Mesa's Peacemaker as an exemplar of what WoF should be in movement.

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All changes sound good and would be very much appreciated, but without addressing the flat damage of Ember's powers, she'll never be as viable in higher levels and she'll always be extremely niche- for low to mid Infested levels.

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- Fire Blast has had a mechanic added. In addition to placing a ring of fire on casting location, it -will now also generate a growing wall of fire (like the Arson Eximus ability).

Oh so the suggestion in the augment mods might become an actual effect in the ability itself. This is a really pleasant surprise Steve and its nice to see you integrating other ideas thrown by us into the ability. On that note, is this going to have the same effects as an Arson Ring of Fire? Like the same knockdown effect, because that sounds like some much needed crowd control for this Warframe.

Edited by SethCypher
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World on fire should get a damage buff depending on the enemies health (let's say 20% of total health (doesn't ignore armor)) and Ember shouldn't be affected by any fire based damage coming from the enemy

SHE IS FIRE WHY WOULD SHE BE HURT BY FIRE?

 

That said, she shouldn't have a high survivability, she more needs an OMG damage buff, she deserves to shine while the world is darker!

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World on fire should get a damage buff depending on the enemies health (let's say 20% of total health (doesn't ignore armor)) and Ember shouldn't be affected by any fire based damage coming from the enemy

SHE IS FIRE WHY WOULD SHE BE HURT BY FIRE?

 

That said, she shouldn't have a high survivability, she more needs an OMG damage buff, she deserves to shine while the world is darker!

The fire resistance will probably come when they roll out the passive abilities for all warframes 

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The changes are all very nice and the fire blast buff sounds great to give you more control in a area full of infested.

I think 2 things still remain, the issue that you need to stack power efficiency, duration, strength and range all at once, a bit more range on WoF and accelerant or reduced energy cost for her ability's would help a lot to give you more choice when it comes to modding.

Another thing are the argument mods atm. The damage buff to your team should be delivered with fire blast, since it is AOE and much easier to apply to teammates constantly in that way. Fireball could be given additional knockdown/knockback on direct hit what would help players that use it a lot at close range for the added dps and the pocs.

As for WoF, the main problem is that the static damage becomes much less viable later on, a small percentage of the base shield/armor of the target(2-3%) as base damage + the static damage would help a lot with the scaling and remaining viable as damage source against higher level units.

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