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[DE]Drew

January 16Th: Community Hot Topics!

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No, what I mean is people want Serration removed to free up a mod slot and makes more varied build. But by removing Serration, another mod would take its place as must-have on builds. Surely you can see what I'm trying to say.

So because removing a mod that is essential to every single build out there will not fix all of the mod balance, DE shouldn't even take the first step by removing a plain damage mod that adds absolutely no customization? Great logic. These mods only bloat your damage numbers with no penalty for it.

Thanks to damage and multishot, Warframe is essentially running with 45 power and 6 mod slots instead of 60 energy and 8 mod slots. These mods are so essential on weapons that making them part of the weapon won't really make a difference at all since they basically already are a part of the weapon since no one in their right mind would even consider removing those in order to have a more viable build.

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In regards to Helicopter'ing:

 

Remove it from default physics and make an aura mod that gives players extra aerodynamic ability - they can copter with it. Whatever you decide, increase BASE runspeed for all frames. I said this way, way earlier!

While you're at it, remove speed holster, handspring, Quick Rest, Marathon, rejuvenation, energy siphon from being mods at all - make these be default to all suits once they're maxed out. These are core components of being a ninja in a combat suit.

 

Ammo pickups:

Make them give a specific amount of ammo according to firerate of each weapon - weapons that blow through ammo should drop bigger amounts than more ammo-conservative weapons and they should drop according to base ammo reserve as well.

 

Grabbing enemies:

Great idea. Give us the ability to snap necks and break legs with bone-crushing hand-to-hand moves. While we're at it, give players the ability to fight unarmed, in straight hand-to-hand combat. Tony Jaa has some excellent moves we could use as unarmed attacks. If we truly are supposed to be Space Ninjas, being devastatingly effective in unarmed combat is a core tenant - core as in "you are not a ninja unless you can do this".

 

EDIT: I got fast hands mixed up with speed holster.

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So because removing a mod that is essential to every single build out there will not fix all of the mod balance, DE shouldn't even take the first step by removing a plain damage mod that adds absolutely no customization? Great logic. These mods only bloat your damage numbers with no penalty for it.

You're putting words in my mouth. I didn't say they shouldn't, did I? But it should be said that the problem would take so much more to completely fix.

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Nope. There aren't any other mods that are as essential as serration. Multishot comes close, but nothing comes close to multishot. It will give people more freedom to customize their builds. That's all there is too it. 

But removing Serrations without rebalancing the entire damage system would still results in people putting other damage mods into their weapons. Be it corrupted or elemental, people would still want the highest damage possible.

 

Now let's be clear; I'm not against the idea. I'm not against you. I'm just saying doing this would require a huge amount of rebalancing and implementing the change would be a total mess. It would probably take a very long time to finesse into perfection.

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You're putting words in my mouth. I didn't say they shouldn't, did I? But it should be said that the problem would take so much more to completely fix.

My bad for misinterpreting your standpoint. The problem is that saying "It doesn't fix the whole mod balance, so don't do it!" is one of the most common arguments that I've seen so far to keep Serration. I realize that another mod will take the place, but from that point further fixes should happen. Not doing anything won't fix anything either.

Let's assume an ideal playground with four factions where there are as many damage types as there are factions and every faction is highly resistant, but not immune, to one damage type, decently resistant to another and slightly resistant to another while being very weak to the last one. Of course you'd use that one damage type to fight the faction then, but what about the other ones? You can still increase your damage by a bit using the other damage types, but that's where I personally see a potential for choice. Either choose a bit more damage or take some utility, kind of like a system with diminishing returns where stacking one thing is possible, but not as rewarding.

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Although my opinion will most likely be over looked or not seen.... here is how I view things... 

Sliding, coptering and/or wall flinging

Well, i love coptering, and if you incorporate it into your parkour even better! i love it! removing this, or lacking the slide spin attack will lessen the ability with more rangey melee weps! I love sliding pretty fast though mobs with e.g Atterax, Dragon Nikana or tipedo and just cutting a mass to arms and legs! its perfect! and without it, I feel melee would be so un-viable, I wouldn't even touch another one EVER again. Wall flinging? well.... that's kinda glitchy and probs does need to be removed.... that one I can kinda see the complaints of... 

Would you grab enemies if you could?

Now, that al depends on what for, If to say, lob them off a cliff or use them as a meat shield as you slung out your secondary to reck some oncoming hoard of mobs then sure! of course i would do that! but then again, i feel not enough information has been given to say if I would or not... too many variables again.... 

What is your opinion on pure damage mods? 

Well, now THATS a question and a half! because... so many things here equate to these mods and how they work. In my personal opinion, the work, but i mean, they fall off scaling in such horrible ways i feel they need to be reworked better, or, find another plausible system for damage to work by. I mean, theres alot of farming needed to make these mods ( well the rank 10 ones anyway..) viable or even useful in many aspects. One would need to max out serration and hornet strike for starters! as these are needed in ALL primaries and secondary's to even begin thinking of using them for anything higher than T1 or even level 20+ mobs... 

I cannot think nor suggest how they could be changed as I just do not know, but what I can say, is pumping mobs HP and Damage up to insane is NOT proper scaling.... Thus the cry's for such mods as 'Primed Serration' because we just can not go on with this kind of band aid influence! there needs to be a set system that works, that will be made this LAST time and be done with or else alot of people are going to leave/rage quit due to every 2 minutes having to learn revised systems and changes due to the consistently modifying EVERYTHING then calling it '2.0' when in most cases, its not that, its more a downgrade or a get-around due to being exploited or not functioning the ways it is meant to ( e.g - Syndicates, Armour 1.0, unreleased Auras like EMP Aura, Shotgun + Pistol Amp)

On average, do you use all your warframe abilities?

HELL NO

Explanation - Have you ever tried using a max power strength rhino then tried to use charge?!?! its useless! you move maybe an inch! or even, tried to use Mirages Disco ball on a max power strength build?!?!? you blitz all your energy and then get absolutely REKT!

Now, all people know the effects of certain mods, specially the corrupted ones and how they work, and I mean for end gamers, or long runners/solo players know for a FACT you cannot build for all skills on a waframe just too many conflicts and destroying most capabilities of the frame you are using... like trying stealth on a radial disarm is just going to kill you and waste mods and ending out on a shockingly bad build/runs...
YOU CAN however, make okay(ISH) builds using all skills on some frames for beginner use! or even for an all rounder but in the terms of use later will NOT work. Anyone can run around the solar system maps on pretty much any frame with a half done build and do it with they're eyes closed.

If you wanted to make all warframe abilities used to begin with you probably shouldn't of even made mods, and just straight up given us God frames with everything being godly and not a care to how they're built, because, lets face it. If that's how you want everyone to play on they're frames that's what the result is going to be having no consistences like using corrupted mods, or mid-maxing builds and totally break your own game GG no RE GL HF.

Also to point, without ANY farming for mods or anything.... whats the point in the game going to be then? like... all the major fun in this game ( my opinion ) would be GONE. No unique or different from anyone else, all using the SAME wep with not customization, all same scaling might as well play CoD and be done with this upon that path because this would no longer be warframe, but in fact another copy of an FPS and probs seen as a boring game, where it would actually make P2W due to no effort needed due to buying the (Outrageously priced no doubt, 100-250 plat) weps, leveling them and then QQing as being the same rubiish as everyone elses etc etc...

My end verdict is, TOO MUCH CHANGE NOT ENOUGH ACTUAL FIXING! - Try to fix the already existing problems before trying to face bigger topics, I feel there is at this point in time OTHER aspects of warframe that need to be addressed before trying to drasticly break/change the game in its current state. So many bugs and Glitches ( also memory leaks and crashes ) that need attention over ANYTHING else. I love warframe, and almost all its content, but lets be real here, most people would agree that to begin a game, you actually need to be able to play the game stably before anything =P

    

 

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>Do you think Sliding, Coptering, and/or Wall Flinging should be changed in some way?<

Depends, are you actually going to implement a better working/overhauled parkour system afterwards?

 

>Do you think pickups (orbs and ammo) need a revision?<

I can't see anything valuable coming from actually modifying how these work.So no.

 

>What is your opinion on pure damage mods (for example, Serration)?<

Depends on how you mitigate the damage reductions from their removal.

If you manage to keep the best possible base damage DPS the same (with them) as it is without them, then sure.

If your plan is to simply remove them without really changing anything other than scaling: No thanks. This game is a mob grinder/bulletspongeboss runner already. It is painful enough as is to do this without a real story, let alone if you make it take longer.

 

>Would you grab enemies if you could?<

Depends on what I can do afterwards with them- and the actual end-all benefits of doing so. Am I locked in place? etc.

 

>On average, do you use all of your Warframe’s abilities?<

Depends on the frame. With min maxing being a thing, not really. Not to mention many abilities just outright suck in any situation and are just a waste of energy.

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Why cant warframe just ask microsoft for another 30 days to transfer accounts from pc im pretty sure im not the only one prepared to spend money on xbox one with his friends... lazy in my opinion just ask them it would benefit you both... silliness.

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Why cant warframe just ask microsoft for another 30 days to transfer accounts from pc im pretty sure im not the only one prepared to spend money on xbox one with his friends... lazy in my opinion just ask them it would benefit you both... silliness.

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Honestly I would love a Grab/Throw system... but it may cause problems with clipping or related issues once implemented. If it ends up working without any problems, I don't mind being able to use a Grineer as a meatshield against a Heavy Gunner. XD

If not now, later would be a nice time once everything is fixed atm. The more mechanics this game has, the more entertaining it'll be once it's all fixed and done.

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What is your opinion on pure damage mods (for example, Serration)?

Voted "They're fine the way they are" but I am open to alternatives, such as making damage mods a new class of mod, and giving it a reserved seat, similar to Auras.

 

On average, do you use all of your Warframe’s abilities?

On average, no. It depends heavily on the frame though.

 

Frames where I use all four:

Nyx

Rhino

Trinity

Valkyr

Vauban

Zephyr

Mag

Loki

 

Frames where I use just one

Nova

Frost

Banshee

 

All other frames are somewhere in the middle, including my most used frame Saryn. I just don't go melee very often, so I don't have much use for poison blades.

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On Sliding/coptering/Wall flinging:

For these Id prefer for them to apply the correct fudgy physics. 

Sliding (teflon suits?) seems ok, but gaining speed is a bit off, a slowdown and actual dear influences would assist this better

Wall flinging I dont mind too much, more the issue is the short wall run fling where you clip something and shoot off at warp speed rather than the leap off the wall at the end of a wall run.

Coptering.. this is the real elephant in the room.  While coptering concept of a speed boost is nice for gameplay, the current implementation with melee attacks should be seeing more dislocated sholders or melee weapons flying across the room. integrated into the frames themselves (as mentioned in a previous post, shown in the spoiler below) would make for a better look and feel to coptering and give frames another feature to their skillsets.

...

The main issue for players is that it still looks like a glitch, not a feature.  Also I wonder why enemies dont just start weilding pikes (or erecting spike walls) and let the tenno skewer themselves on them with coptering.

 

To those that say rockets would look silly on a frame all I can say is Nova Prime.  Her venting flaps would make for great jet engines to facilitate it.  Though it would be nice if they featured it into frame themes.  These wouldnt do damage as such (other than what coptering would do now) and are more for the visual purpose.

 

Some Examples per frame:

Ash does a short teleport

Banshee has a jet 'pluse' behind her (like Sonic Boom)

Ember breifly catchs fire

Excalibur does a short slashdash

Frost skis on an ice ramp

Hydroid shoots off like a barage shot

Limbo does a short phase blink

Loki does a short teleport (or acrobatic lunge)

Mag draws herself forward with magnetic force

Mesa shoots a shotgun like blast behind her forcing her forward

Mirage shoots forward in a beam of light

Nekros binds shadows about hiomself an teleports a short distance

Nova leaps forward through a small wormhole

Nyx darts forward like like a psychic bolt

Oberon dars forward like a swirling smite bolt

Rhino does a charge forward

Saryn moves forward as a gaseous cloud

Trinity leaps forward in a pulse of energy, or along a link beam

Valkyr shoots forward in her balled up spin

Vauban propells himself forward with a bounce effect

Volt shoots forward as/in a bolt of ligtning (or covered in it)

Zephyr flys forward like Tail Wind

Sure some would be effects like their powers but wouldnt have the associated damage/effects with them, and would look vastly more warframe to the game than even just adding jet engines to a frame.  The balance (for those that are only movement and for the self) would be that instead of using energy you need the key combos.  Though it could even use a small amount of energy too (by small i mean around 10 before efficency).

 

 

On pickups:

Pickups are showing their age in that they were designed around a certain consistencncy across weapon ammunition counts and frame health/energy.  So this needs tweaking.  It would also be good to take a look at how thats handled with network code as well given that it appears the host handles this side of things causing alot of additional network traffic that really doesnt need to be there when the client can likely handle it faster and better themselves (the initial spawnign by the host obviously) while freeing bandwidth for more important data.

 

On pure damge mods:

While this is a point of contention the biggest issue being is that they are considered mandatory, and often the bigest factor of the divergence between the too hard and too easy a game for players.  This factor simply means that the value could be added to weapon growth (with some vaiance for each weapon it could make weapons more unique over their growth too).

 

The downside however is letting players have control over the rank of these boosts (as we haev now) means they can tailor this damage to what they find the best for their style of play.  IE. some players intentionally use lower ranks to make the game more challenging and skill more important.

 

Overall though they for the most part give more damage to everything even specific damage types than the boosters for specific damage types themselves.

 

I guess really a way to hit all factors is to build in some inherant damage growth to the weapons (eases the point of the progression wall), some pure damage mods for boosting that are much lower in specifc damage type boosts for general damage type builds (for those that want the game easier or for building either specalised damage or generalist damage builds).

 

As to prime damage mods, no (lets face it point blank should of been upgraded for consistency, not made a prime mod).  Simply put these for the concept of prime mods (ie ability to rank higher but the same bomus) would need to be rank 15 or rank 20 mods.  Think about a rank 20 mod it will take around 550,000-600,000 R5 cores to maximise them, or about 5 years of playing T4 for 5*R5 packs to rank one to 20.  Also warframe doesnt now need rank 10 of these damage mods to play the game proper as it stands.

 

On Grabing:

Sure I would use this but likely only very occasionally.  Is it worth the development time and effort? not for me at this point in the game's development, melee finishers currently fit the place for this for me as it stands.

 

On power use:

I typically use 2-3 powers on all frames depending on how I build them and the purpose I'm using them for (some are only ever used for very specific tasks, but otherwise not for general playing).  That said I may use 2-3 different powers of the same frame for a different build thus overall using all powers in some ways, just never all at once.

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Make Serration and Hornet Strike as they are now into Primed versions and release weaker version as normal mod.

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On orbs:

 

 

I have never liked the idea of ''orbs'' dropping randomly from some corpses. Why does a big red or blue sphere drop randomly from inside some bad guys? Makes no sense. I especially do not like having such a nonsensical mechanic being the main way of acquiring health and energy in this game. 

 

I would vastly prefer a system in which health and energy restores were more organically integrated into the game (Metal Gear Reveangance is an excellent example of this - in that game you could restore energy and health by collecting enemy cyborg spines but enemies needed to be perfectly slashed open or countered in order to do this). 

 

 

 

 

 

On grappling: Yes please!!!! I already love countering and stealth killing, more melee grapples would be amazing. 

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To the questions:

Sliding/Coptering/etc:

From what I understand and see of them, I think they need to stay pretty much as is.  However, I think sprinting needs to either move faster or take less stamina.  Someone sprinting should have some hope of keeping up, but people who are good at these stunts should instead be able to access shortcuts faster than wall running or shortcuts that can't be taken at all otherwise.

 

Pickups:

There are a few weapons that are off-typed with ammo capacity (like the Kohm) which don't fit well with how pickups work, but hard to tell if you intended these weapons to have to use a slot for ammo mutation or force very careful use of it.  Otherwise, I think energy orbs drop too much in groups, while they drop too little in solo play.  I also think health orbs should drop more, especially in solo play, even if it would have to be balanced by less drops from containers.

 

Serration:

It took me about 50 hours in game to get a hold of either Serration or Viper Strike.  Splitting the damage between leveling up and these primary damage mods should drop their necessity, and then give you another tool to boost up newbie weapons (by giving a higher base and lower per level scaling for example).  If you go situational damage instead, a lower percentage Serration should still exist.

 

Grabs:

While I'd be more than willing to have weapons that grab as part of their primary or alternate fire, given a standard weapon, I do not see myself being able to rotate it in standard sequences.  

 

Ability usage:

I feel like with a lot of frames, there's a dominant ability (usually 4) with 3 other abilities trying to fill in niches.  There is room for use of other abilities, but the primary ability is often the easiest way to do things, and I would suspect that it takes a lot of practice to go beyond that regularly.  

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I think they should upgrade the mastery rank/ affinity system a little bit, i like the "COD" Exp System with Prestige ranks, it's simple and rewarding with a cool new icon (in COD), no im not a COD Fanboy, stopped playing since MW3.

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Now let's be clear; I'm not against the idea. I'm not against you. I'm just saying doing this would require a huge amount of rebalancing and implementing the change would be a total mess. It would probably take a very long time to finesse into perfection.

I welcome the apocalypse with open arms. 

 

Nah, Seriously. Of course it will be a mess. DE will make several oversights and they won't fix all of them within a good amount of time (based on past experience. We still haven't got those base status chance mods buffed) But it's ultimately a change that will have great benefits in the long term. 

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Yes, remove the damage mods because of how much of an advantage they have, it's mandatory to have them on anything, and replace them with a level > damage system, it makes more sense with Warframe's RPG-ish elements.

 

Ammo should be restored based on your weapons fire rate, like a % of the weapon's fire rate. That way a Lex and a Viper won't get 20 ammo back from a pick-up. instead Lex gets 5 and Viper gets 50, because let's face it, how many GOOD weapons you had to put down due to the fact that you could fire them for 30 seconds at max, then switching to your other weapon for 2-3 minutes until you get the ammo back for the other one, rather than use each weapon depending on situation and enemies encountered.

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Pickups:

On the topic of ammo i don't think the ammo amount should be changed as it could make ammo mutations useless making weapons that use these mutation mods gain a power spike due to the weapons not needing the mutations as the extra slot would be used for a damage mod

 

Pure Damage Mods:

Shift some of the power into zoom mods Eagle Eye and Hawk Eye 

Suggestion:

Eagle Eye: 40% Zoom (same as before), 20% Damage, 40% Dead Aim (Increase Damage when zoomed)

and something similar for Hawk Eye

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Don't touch damage mods! You leveling up weapons to 30 for more mod slots available, if this is not enough you put forma in it. All game and your set ups are based on mods. What is wrong with give them boost with mods. If you thinking that we don't need them then maby DE's should remove strenght mods from warfeames as well? Why you need them if you don't need more power on weapons? Warframes are OP not the toys.

Prime serration will not brake anything in the game. However it should bs locked to buy, trade on market. And it should be available from trader at mr15 minimum. Deserve to get this, newbes will nit use OP for normal missions. And if some of you think it would be like "OMG it isOP in game, balance we need" and that kind of your personal thougs simply DON'T BUY IT, DON'T USE IT just FORGET ABOUT THIS and let people who need this your TO MUCH OP use it!!

How simple is that???

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If you thinking that we don't need them then maby DE's should remove strenght mods from warfeames as well? Why you need them if you don't need more power on weapons? Warframes are OP not the toys.

Try this as a mental exercise. Create a build for a frame that ignores strength. I can think of Hydros or Loki off the top of my head, but I doubt they're the only possible options.

 

Now comes the part that requires effort: imagine a weapon build that is effective and ignores damage.

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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Do you think Sliding, Coptering, and/or Wall Flinging should be changed in some way?

No, do not change them at all. 

 

Sliding needs to stay.

Coptering is fine.

Wall flinging is required to get to a few secret loot areas,

so removing flinging will require you to change up those secret loot areas.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Do you think pickups (orbs and ammo) need a revision?

Yes, but only minor change/tweak, nothing major. 

 

The ammo drops should have name changes.

It's weird picking up "sniper ammo" to reload your penta.

 

Health and energy orb drops need to stay.

If the only way to get energy back was with the drop pads and energy syphon aura,

or the only way to heal was with a health pad or healing ability,

that would be more reason to stop playing the game.

 

But, if you do remove the orbs,

then replace them with an over time regen for both health and energy.

and make the healing items cheaper/easier to build/get.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What is your opinion on pure damage mods (for example, Serration)?

They need their damage bonus increased. 

 

Or weapons need to be up-gradable.

My fave weapons are Machete and normal Lato, mainly do to looks.

But they are so weak it's pointless to use them.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Would you grab enemies if you could?

Maybe, depends what I'm fighting or doing.

 

I can see me as Rhino grabbing a boss and holding them in place so my allies can shoot him/her/it easier.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On average, do you use all of your Warframe’s abilities?

Yes, I normally use most/all abilities.

 

I try and use all my abilities at every good opportunity.

 

If you're planing on making it so we can only use a couple of the abilities,

please add the mod slots you removed from the frames back,

when you changed how the abilities worked please.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Don't touch damage mods! You leveling up weapons to 30 for more mod slots available, if this is not enough you put forma in it. All game and your set ups are based on mods. What is wrong with give them boost with mods. If you thinking that we don't need them then maby DE's should remove strenght mods from warfeames as well? Why you need them if you don't need more power on weapons? Warframes are OP not the toys.

Prime serration will not brake anything in the game. However it should bs locked to buy, trade on market. And it should be available from trader at mr15 minimum. Deserve to get this, newbes will nit use OP for normal missions. And if some of you think it would be like "OMG it isOP in game, balance we need" and that kind of your personal thougs simply DON'T BUY IT, DON'T USE IT just FORGET ABOUT THIS and let people who need this your TO MUCH OP use it!!

How simple is that???

I assume this is Ironic? 

 

Why don't most advocates of keeping serration make sensible arguments? 

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The stamina system as it exists works against sprinting exclusively because coptering can restore stamina between animations. The new air melee attack makes parkour obsolete as well.

Fixed ammo recovery disfavors weapons that rely on lots of rounds(aka poor ammo economy). A % of ammo recovered based on the quality of the rounds it fires(i.e. bows vs machine pistols) is preferable.

Damage mods don't feel like a modification but rather the very source of our weapons power. I can do without them if enemies scale accordingly.

I would love to toss enemies and take hostages to use as shields.

Do I use all powers? Depends on the frame - that in and of itself is an issue. Some are one trick ponies while others are just right.

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