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[DE]Drew

January 16Th: Community Hot Topics!

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On the subject of single power usage, you guys do realize that only a tiny portion of people would admit to abusing this system right and this poll in no way accurately reflects player behavior. What needs to be done honestly is actual player monitoring by DE employees in game and watch how players work in game.

 

Unfortunately no one is going to tell you that they spend most of their warframe builds abusing the crap out of the broken energy system, it will be on you guys to find this out.

 

Asking people to admit they are doing something along these lines is like the police asking someone if they have drugs.

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Leave coptering and directional air melee alone.
They are essential for Sword only players.

Otherwise how are you going to close the distance or even hit air targets (which is why directional melee is created in the first place) ?

 

Instead it would be better if we start by removing or greatly reducing stamina drain when sprinting or wall running.

We are magically Ninja in spess, sprinting non-stop should be possible. I mean we can't use our guns anyway when sprinting, that is a fair enough trade off.

 

After that, we can then start redoing the stamina system, so block doesn't suck and re-work it so that channel builds use more stamina instead of energy (2 to 5 energy is still incredibly inefficient when compared to abilities). 

 

 

So I vote NO to changes of coptering, wall flinging and directional melee but adjustments to the stamina system so parkour isn't so crippled for a start.

 

 

I will ignore the 2nd and 3rd poll because I am neutral on both aspects.

But for option 4, yes I routinely use ALL abilities.

 

Check my profile DE, I main Loki.

I will be using at least 3 abilities all the time, no matter is it a disarm Loki or an invisibility Loki.

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I voted to remove the acceleration of sliding, coptering, etc.  The movement has long been a pain point for me in Warframe, and it comes down a bit to a lot of it just feeling unintentional (which it was in this case, initially) and very unbalanced.  It may have become a somewhat iconic maneuver, but I do not see that as a positive thing.  Flinging myself across the map in defiance of any kind of physics breaks immersion; it makes me feel less like a space ninja and more like an actual glitch in a video game.

 

I also think that it's bad for level design, because either you design with the broken behavior in mind and have to teach it to players ("did you know you can fling yourself crazy fast for long distances in some situations in certain ways?") or you don't, and levels become unbalanced for those who take advantage of the unintended "features".

 

If maps take so long (or are so boring) to traverse that players need to rely on this kind of glitch to make it tolerable, perhaps the way levels are designed needs to be looked at.  Or, as was suggested by the poll, maybe we can just run faster.

 

As a point of general feedback in light of parkour 2.0 on the horizon:  The reason I tend to avoid parkour situations currently is that it's difficult to control.  I tend to have a lot of unintended vaulting, rolling, flinging, and wall running.  Sometimes one small failure leads to a chain of uninterrupt-able parkour animations that end with me falling into holes, or just dying from the hordes of enemies once they stop laughing at my shenanigans.  I'm sure it could be said that it just takes practice and extra control, but I feel that it's a bit difficult to pick up for something we can't avoid.  Before you've mastered it, it's more of an uncontrollable nuisance than a helpful or cool feature, which does nothing for making me want to learn it.

EDIT: As a matter of fact, I just tried to finish the rank up mission for rank...8, the whole shoot the targets to make the path? The vertical wall run after the horizontal one didn't work.  I hit the wall, did a wall running animation, and never actually went up.  Fell all the times until I failed and now have to wait 24 hours.  Hooray, that was fun.

 

As far as damage mods, I voted they should be removed.  It's hard enough to balance weapons for content and difficulty tiers without having to guess exactly how much damage players have modded into their weapons.  Do you balance the weapons for no damage mods?  Easy mode if you use them, who wouldn't?  Do you balance for maxed damage mods?  We'd be stupid not to use them, since we'll be severely under-powered otherwise.  Anywhere in the middle, and it'd still be in most people's best interest to just max out their damage to be on the overpowered side.

 

Without damage mods, players are still able to increase their effectiveness using mods for RoF, mag, elements, etc.  Sounds much easier to balance to me, you won't even have to worry as much about what rank the weapon is or exactly how much extra base damage someone may or may not have stacked on it.

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As far as damage mods, I voted they should be removed.  It's hard enough to balance weapons for content and difficulty tiers without having to guess exactly how much damage players have modded into their weapons.  Do you balance the weapons for no damage mods?  Easy mode if you use them, who wouldn't?  Do you balance for maxed damage mods?  We'd be stupid not to use them, since we'll be severely under-powered otherwise.  Anywhere in the middle, and it'd still be in most people's best interest to just max out their damage to be on the overpowered side.

 

Without damage mods, players are still able to increase their effectiveness using mods for RoF, mag, elements, etc.  Sounds much easier to balance to me, you won't even have to worry as much about what rank the weapon is or exactly how much extra base damage someone may or may not have stacked on it.

I agree with this, the only stipulation I can think to add however is that they also remove damage from elemental mods as well otherwise they become "false choice" mods as well. Meaning you must maintain X amount of elemental damage mods in build or it's far underpowered comparatively.

 

Currently both base damage mods and multishot mods fall into this "false choice" category because if you do not use them you are not building your weapon correctly to do it's job.

 

If we then leave elemental damage mods in game they become the defacto damage buffing mods which perpetuates the problem. What we need to do for the elemental mods is take them partially back to the damage 1.0 days where we automatically get a proc of a certain type from them.

 

Ice-slows targets

Fire-dots and provide a small panic

Elec-chains damage and small stun

toxin causes armor/shield ignoring dot

 

So a player has choice of modding their weapons for specific purposes and not just raw DPS. This would allow the devs to bring lesser used weapons into the limelight at least marginally. Further balance passes would make even more weapons viable but until we actually get a tiered weapon system to perform said balancing nothing will change.

 

Additionally I'm not even sure if any of this would make a difference as Primed weapons will always be released as stronger and stronger versions over time otherwise there is no draw to farm them or buy them and thus the company loses money.

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Sliding, Coptering, and Wall Flinging:

 

Discussing this is another classic example of taking something that isn't actually broken and doing just that.

People that like to use the current system get hosed in the process of changes to them.

People that don't like the current systems will offer mixed reviews to any changes to it. 25% of players will be happy with it.

Mutually beneficial and rewarding gameplay comes from changing mindsets, not game systems.

if you want to stop rushing, reward players for not rushing. Less rushing occurs.

 

Pickups:

 

They could be better... But I would be more interested in useful changes to the loot tables as a whole than I would be to orb pickups.

It's definitely a QoL issue but it's miniscule compared to 7 Thumpers in the same Void run or an item I likely will never use (Forma) as a mission reward. Or the fact that we have a number of different types of fusion cores when we really only need 2 (not counting legendary).

 

Damage levels, Powercreep, and Required Mods:

To me, this is a trap...

Consistent with DE's handling of issues of this type historically; The only thing removing these mods will do is open the door for new systems like Focus or MR Rank benefits.

 

I don't care to feed new systems with what I already have and that's what I see as the ultimate outcome with removing +damage, and multi-shot mods.

 

Giving with one hand and taking with the other is a trend in this game...

So my largest question is: Why should I opt to give up those stacking mods that I spent hours/days/months acquiring and leveling when I will just have to earn them all over again in the Focus system or some other adjunct to it down the road?

 

Change player's mindsets, not game systems. Present new types of appealing mods that are reasonable to acquire and can't be stacked with other +damage mods or more than one of them. In the process, remove needless mods like basic Sentinel precepts (Looking at you, Thumper...)

 

Multi-shot mods and +damage mods aren't the problem... The lack of viable options in place of it is.

If a player could be comparably efficient not slotting multi-shot, + damage, and 2-4 elemental mods you would see more diversity.

That said, removing mods like Serration and Multi-shot mods is a bad idea because it limits options... Some players will want to see status effects while others will want to see insanely big numbers from their weapons.

 

Moreover... Your trading system coupled with your intended drop tables has created a scenario where people have spent money to buy platinum to purchase these things because they couldn't acquire them any other way.

 

We can argue that this is the player's fault, but once DE removes that item it, functionally, become DE's issue.

 

Change mindsets, not game systems.... Create viable alternatives and you'll get the same effect without alienating players.

 

 

Grab and Throw Mechanics:

Yes, please... More options are good.

Consider add the following to the list of what would be nice additions:

Cover mechanics

Hide mechanics

Distract mechanics

An Enemy Sense mod that shows me what direction the enemy is actually looking in.

Bundle mods ancillary and/or redundant mods but at slightly higher costs (Rush and Maglev spring to mind, so do Thief's Wit, Enemy Sense, and Master Thief) . 

Lockpicks in the gear section

 

Abilities and “Energy 2.0”:

I use what works...

Freeze, for example, is a skill I like but don't often use because it's energy cost punishes missed or failed shots.

Given that some of the enemies actually react to player targeting reticles now (Sneaky DE),  I am guaranteed missed shots on a number of mobs.

If Freeze were re-worked into any of the dozens of versions players have suggested, I would use it more.

It worked for Ash, didn't it?

 

Re-designing the energy system is another scenario where changing the player mindset would get more mileage.

 

Mesa is a good example of this...

Her number 4 is awesome.

But it's really awesome if her number 3 is active with it (You live!).

It's even more awesome if her number 2 is active at the same time(You or someone else lives!).

The synergy of her abilities play on each other.

Her number 1 is worth having on even if you don't find a reason to use it in that mission. It would be more awesome if it gave some type of buff to the rest of the group while it was active though.

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In response to using abilities: I usually use my warframe's fourth ability. However, if I don't have enough energy, or if using one of the other abilities is more beneficial, then I will use one of the other abilities. :) Hope that helps!

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I think we should retain all slide attack speed in each weapon.  

Repeatedly use of slide attack should have some penalty.

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The reason why so many people don't wan't coptering to be changed is because of the grind and repetitiveness. I personaly would still wan't it to change.

 

Half flying across the map kinda looks ridiculous. Coptering is supposed to be used in combat. You should lose your momentum with coptering so you can land on the battle instead of feeling like you're slipping on ice. Hitting the enemy with coptering should do more damage than slide + melee since it harder to hit with.

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I personally think you should be focusing more on bugs and endgame, the modding system is actually something I have a great deal of fun with, if you want to make it less grindy to get some mods Heavycalheavycalheavycalheavycalheavycal, then just give a large abundance of them to the market or Baro kiteer for cheap credits so players can just buy the mods they need and go headfirst into the game.

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About sliding, coptering, running etc: what if the whole stamina system is scrapped, and all actions that used stamina would drain energy? That would force the player to choose between rushing and using tactics, using abilities that enhance mobility would  become more feasible. Lore-wise it would make sense, after all, the purpose of the frame is to enhance the tenno's abilities.

 

As for the abilities I use on frames: it all depends on the frame I'm using, the mods I have equipped and the situation I'm in. Though some abilities, in their current state seem underwhelming (like Nyx's bolts, Excal's jump etc) and get ignored by most players.

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Wow, so many players dont seem to like the fast parkour movement style of this game?

 

its what makes this game unique compared to every other 3rd person shooter out on the market today imo...

If it were removed, and replaced with just normal sprinting, i would drop this game like a rock...

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Wow, so many players dont seem to like the fast parkour movement style of this game?

 

its what makes this game unique compared to every other 3rd person shooter out on the market today imo...

If it were removed, and replaced with just normal sprinting, i would drop this game like a rock...

The point is that a special movement is required to keep up under 90% of the circumstances just to participate in missions. Also Parkour is getting a rework this year sometime HOPEFULLY which will negate the necessity for coptering in order to keep up. Also there are a number of players that cannot even copter in the air due to limitations on a lot of keyboards only allowing 3 keys at a time to be pressed simultaneously Thus preventing some from even being able to do it if dextrous enough. I can spin attack all day every day just fine but coptering is impossible for me due to the fact I must release a key in order to jump-copter and for some reason I lose a ton of momentum.

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Regarding Pure Damage Mods, I think they should either be replaced by something else, or given less ranks like Pressure Point.

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Coptering

As long as there will be no other way to move as quickly and easy as this way, I don't want that you change that. In my opinion the animation of the slide attack looks really awesome, but this is personal preference how I learned in the last weeks.

 

Pickups

Only one thing that needs to be changed:

Enemies need a certain chance to drop health orbs. They have so much ways to bypass shields, but you can't regenerate your health without using specific warframes, mods or equipment. For example Grineer proc really often slash and your health will shrink until you die and you can't do anything against it.

 

Pure dmg mods

You need them in every build, so you have only 7 mod slots to modify your weapon.

But I'm only for a removal under one condition:

Weapons need to scale with the level like Warframes. That means that they should increase their dmg by ~6% for every level (=180% increased dmg on lvl 30 for every weapon type (yeah, a buff for rifles, shotguns and melee weapons, but a nerf for secondaries :P )).

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Pure dmg mods

You need them in every build, so you have only 7 mod slots to modify your weapon.

But I'm only for a removal under one condition:

Weapons need to scale with the level like Warframes. That means that they should increase their dmg by ~6% for every level (=180% increased dmg on lvl 30 for every weapon type (yeah, a buff for rifles, shotguns and melee weapons, but a nerf for secondaries :P )).

We can also add multishot to that "MUST HAVE" category. I'd like to see it removed as well.

 

Of course a re-balance of enemies would be necessitated by that change and a re-balance/change of the energy system as well.

 

All of these things would be quite healthy for the game.

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I'd be fine with getting rid of coptering, as long as you give us some way to get around more quickly. Such as: sprint speed increase (would likely have the problem of moving too quickly to actually maneuver as well), sprint speed increase during a sustained sprint (would get rid of the weird run slide thing everyone does), wallrun speed increase(would make it faster to travel on walls than on the ground, giving a reason to do that)

 

Grab and Throw: eehhh, maybe. If it's done well.

 

Abilities: damage should scale somehow. More damage to higher armor enemies, to higher shield enemies, or just plain old higher hp enemies.

 

Damage mods: I would be perfectly fine with getting rid of serration. Just throw a legendary core at people or something and be done with it. Put the stats on the weapons (on level up), nerf the other damage mods (including serration if you'd rather not remove it completely) significantly so they are actually choices which utility mods can compete with (hmm, +25% damage or +12 meter range on my gun...)

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The ability question kinda depends on the frame and user.

 

Banshee for example has abilities that are all good.

Ash on the other hand only has smoke screen and blade storm that are good in my opinion.

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Coptering:

I do not really care what goes with coptering, I will be fine either way. My opinion though that HEavey weapons should fling you further but not with a lot of speed. Light weapon fling you short distance but fast.

Pickups:

Health: Yes, make them percentage based.
Energy: This is a bit more difficult case but I guess they should alsot give % based enegery based on your pool
Ammo: Yes, yes, yes, and more yes. Glaxion, Khom need this very desperately. Also for the OCD sake rename the sniper ammo to "Specia" ammo.

Serration and Damage mods:

Remove it but give something instead.

Heavy caliber is very good example. However it should be "Chose your poison" way. Caliber lowers your accurassy, another mod lovers your firerate, another gives you lower clip etc. 
Basically make more options but make them with downsides.

Grab: 

Grab? Grab!  I do not see why not.

Abilities:

Depends on the frame and the build. But mostly I try to use most of them.

For example I have normal Nekros, I do not use desecrate at all. And I have "Desekros" where I use desecrate only. 
Same goes for almost all other frames.
 

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1) Coptering - leave it be.  It's one of the fun movement mechanics of the game.

 

2) Pure damage mods - leave them alone, unless you are also including melee.  Melee damage mods are woefully lacking when compared to their comparable primary/secondary damage mod siblings.

 

What attracted me to this game, and has kept me playing it for 2500 hours are what I see as the core mechanics of the game:

1) Parkour and melee elements

2) The mod system.  Start with a base item and customize it however you want.  You don't have to farm for it, you can purchase it - which results in more cash to the developers = continued game development and support.

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I can't believe people are OK with serration.

The damage buffs needs to apply to the weapons naturally as they level up instead of having an oligatory mod that wastes a slot. 

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Sliding, Coptering, and Wall Flinging:

Coptering :

While it servers the purpose of a Dash it´s super stupid to move all the time with a whirling weapon swing like a beyblade. It´s just stupid if you think more than two seconds about it. It looks unnatural, it feels unnatural, it´s kind of a bug in the first place and just a abused band-aid because there´s no natural Dash.

Give me better and faster movement through a real dash and parkour and i won´t miss coptering a second.

Sliding :

Sliding itself is fine.

Wall Flinging :

Feels like a bug. Too unreliable. Makes no sense. I hope for parkour 2.0.

A personal note on parkour :

Please please rethink about how parkour is triggered. Right now you trigger movement with obstacles through holding the jump button. Please test it out in your office how it feels to just naturally trigger obstacle movement by just holding down the run button.

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