Flowen231 Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 It's not pay to win if the items are no longer available to purchase. If you really want to reach, then it'd be paid to win two years ago. And this is simply putting Excal Prime in line with the other Primes, not above. The problem is that if excal prime was buffed 2 years ago, there would have been more people who bought the founder's package simply because he was a better excalibur. As the founders often say to defend why Eprime should not be released again (just throwing this out there, I don't want excal P to return): They got what they payed for. Now, if there's another, special excal that get's released with upgraded stats and the ability to gain energy from death orbs, then I'd be in favor of an excal p buff. I'm fine with the fact that founders have a leg up on mastery, but buffing excal prime would technically make it a pay to win situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon_J Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 My only guess as to why they wont buff excal prime is because he is exclusive. A lot of people would be upset if there favorite frame has a better unobtainable version instead of just an ascetic difference. i honestly dont care either way though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yezzik Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 The problem is that if excal prime was buffed 2 years ago, there would have been more people who bought the founder's package simply because he was a better excalibur. As the founders often say to defend why Eprime should not be released again (just throwing this out there, I don't want excal P to return): They got what they payed for. Now, if there's another, special excal that get's released with upgraded stats and the ability to gain energy from death orbs, then I'd be in favor of an excal p buff. I'm fine with the fact that founders have a leg up on mastery, but buffing excal prime would technically make it a pay to win situation. I don't think founders should even have a leg-up on Mastery. I don't think anyone should. If it's ever to matter in a more meaningful manner to the gameplay, then a player who joined yesterday should always be able to reach the exact same Mastery rank (given time) as someone who's been here since the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagPrime Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 It will be pay to win if the arguments used now show up again the next time there's power creep--like if we end up with Prisma'ed Primes, for example--as that will mean the Founders get to ignore progression (by farming something) without needing to farm or buy Platinum. I'm sorry this didn't make any sense to me. The problem is that if excal prime was buffed 2 years ago, there would have been more people who bought the founder's package simply because he was a better excalibur. As the founders often say to defend why Eprime should not be released again (just throwing this out there, I don't want excal P to return): They got what they payed for. Now, if there's another, special excal that get's released with upgraded stats and the ability to gain energy from death orbs, then I'd be in favor of an excal p buff. I'm fine with the fact that founders have a leg up on mastery, but buffing excal prime would technically make it a pay to win situation. How is it pay to win when you can't buy it anymore? Please correct me if I'm wrong but isn't pay to win where a player purchases items with real world money in order to excel in any and all content, and said items are always available? Changing Excal Prime wouldn't give any of the Founders the ability to excel at any and all content and the 'frame isn't available to purchase anymore. How is pay to win? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yezzik Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 (edited) I'm sorry this didn't make any sense to me. When the Prisma Skana came out and the extra crit meant it could do more damage than the Skana Prime, some people wanted the Prime buffed to be equal or better than the Prisma. It's power creep--later weapons in a game being more powerful than earlier ones, to the point where the earlier ones are just worse in every category than their counterparts. Imagine if Baro brought us a Prisma Excalibur, and it turned out to have higher stats than the Excalibur Prime. pay to win where a player purchases items with real world money in order to excel in any and all content, and said items are always available? Pay to win doesn't require the items to always be available. "Pay to win" means you threw money at the screen and got the best stuff--which could include Founder items getting buffed every time there's something more powerful that comes out. Edited June 8, 2015 by Yezzik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagPrime Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 When the Prisma Skana came out and the extra crit meant it could do more damage than the Skana Prime, some people wanted the Prime buffed to be equal or better than the Prisma. It's power creep--later weapons in a game being more powerful than earlier ones, to the point where the earlier ones are just worse in every category than their counterparts. Imagine if Baro brought us a Prisma Excalibur, and it turned out to have higher stats than the Excalibur Prime. Pay to win doesn't require the items to always be available. "Pay to win" means you threw money at the screen and got the best stuff--which could include Founder items getting buffed every time there's something more powerful that comes out. So, how is bringing Excal Prime into line with the other Primes pay to win? When he was purchased, he wasn't the the best, and if he does get buffed, he still wont be. He'd just be the same as his peers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yezzik Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 So, how is bringing Excal Prime into line with the other Primes pay to win? When he was purchased, he wasn't the the best, and if he does get buffed, he still wont be. He'd just be the same as his peers. It's not that. It's that people have been arguing that Skana Prime should be brought up to the level of the Prisma Skana, something that isn't the peer of a prime, just because the Prisma Skana was more powerful. That argument can and will surface again if we get a Prisma Lato or Excalibur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagPrime Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 It's not that. It's that people have been arguing that Skana Prime should be brought up to the level of the Prisma Skana, something that isn't the peer of a prime, just because the Prisma Skana was more powerful. That argument can and will surface again if we get a Prisma Lato or Excalibur. I sincerely wish Prisma never happened. As far as I know, there is no supporting lore for the Prisma generation of weapons. No one can say if they are or are not supposed to be better than Primes. Uhg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl_Facehugger Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 No. You can't have an exclusive like Excal Prime, and then buff it too. That's simply not fair to non-founders. How that any different than Skana Prime being better than normal skana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrsrkr Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 It's not that. It's that people have been arguing that Skana Prime should be brought up to the level of the Prisma Skana, something that isn't the peer of a prime, just because the Prisma Skana was more powerful. That argument can and will surface again if we get a Prisma Lato or Excalibur.That was simply because Founders have been asking for a buff for about a year, and DE not only ignored it, but released another power creeped Skana, and it made them feel understandably salty. Also, primed gear, as Stated by DE, is supposed to be the best and ultimate form of a weapon. This is why you can't put skins on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yezzik Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 I sincerely wish Prisma never happened. As far as I know, there is no supporting lore for the Prisma generation of weapons. No one can say if they are or are not supposed to be better than Primes. Uhg. Hence why I want everything to become skins for base items. That cuts out all the power creep we've been having from the endless number of variants cropping up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagPrime Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Hence why I want everything to become skins for base items. That cuts out all the power creep we've been having from the endless number of variants cropping up. Which makes DE's hesitation to balance everything understandable. I wouldn't mind some skins that changed our abilities, but I doubt anyone would get behind that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yezzik Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Which makes DE's hesitation to balance everything understandable. I wouldn't mind some skins that changed our abilities, but I doubt anyone would get behind that. We already have stat-altering skins for some melee weapons like the Brokk skin for the Fragor. And I can imagine Valkyr's proto-skin would need some visual tweaking if it's meant to be her before Salad got his mitts on her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagPrime Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 We already have stat-altering skins for some melee weapons like the Brokk skin for the Fragor. And I can imagine Valkyr's proto-skin would need some visual tweaking if it's meant to be her before Salad got his mitts on her. The Brokk skin changes stats?! What does it change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrsrkr Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 The Brokk skin changes stats?! What does it change? Swing speed for damage.However, as I said, Primes are supposed to be the ultimate form of weaponry, which is why it cannot equip skins. This is also why the Primes should not turn into skins. I am under the impression that the Founders got what they paid for, which was a Prime Warframe and Primed weaponry. This is the same as any other Prime weapon or Warframe, and should be treated as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagPrime Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Swing speed for damage. However, as I said, Primes are supposed to be the ultimate form of weaponry, which is why it cannot equip skins. This is also why the Primes should not turn into skins. I am under the impression that the Founders got what they paid for, which was a Prime Warframe and Primed weaponry. This is the same as any other Prime weapon or Warframe, and should be treated as such. Oh. And I agree. If it's Prime, then it should be balanced accordingly, regardless of exclusivity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yezzik Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Swing speed for damage. However, as I said, Primes are supposed to be the ultimate form of weaponry, which is why it cannot equip skins. To use that logic, then, Excalibur Prime shouldn't be able to use the Proto-Excalibur skin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrsrkr Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 To use that logic, then, Excalibur Prime shouldn't be able to use the Proto-Excalibur skin.And the Glaive shouldn't be able to use the Proto Skin. However, these are model skins from the first Tenno, Hayden. Technically, Excalibur is a skin of him. Anyway, that's more fan service for Dark sector than anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagPrime Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 To use that logic, then, Excalibur Prime shouldn't be able to use the Proto-Excalibur skin. Technically, those aren't even cannon. They're more a nod towards the Dark Sector beginnings, a "Hey look, I'm Hayden!" type thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yezzik Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 And the Glaive shouldn't be able to use the Proto Skin. However, these are model skins from the first Tenno, Hayden. Technically, Excalibur is a skin of him. Anyway, that's more fan service for Dark sector than anything. And the pre-Corpus Valkyr skin? http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Valkyr_Pre-Corpus_Skin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrsrkr Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 And the pre-Corpus Valkyr skin? http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Valkyr_Pre-Corpus_Skin Is that Valkyr Prime? Nope, no gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yezzik Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Is that Valkyr Prime? Nope, no gold. I know that. But if you bought the skin and then earned or bought the eventual Valkyr Prime (Or whatever her name was before then), surely you'd want to be able to use that skin on her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bl4ckhunter Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 (edited) Is that Valkyr Prime? Nope, no gold. judging by all the blue it could be prisma, the color scheme matches at least it probably just serves the purpose of justify a warframe with pieces of corpus tech still hanging, i'd prefer if they used it for another frame and just made a valkyr prime without corpus bits that at least looks something like valkyr Edited June 8, 2015 by bl4ckhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrsrkr Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 I know that. But if you bought the skin and then earned or bought the eventual Valkyr Prime (Or whatever her name was before then), surely you'd want to be able to use that skin on her.I want to use the Manticore Axe Skin on my Scindo Prime. I can't though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yezzik Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 (edited) I want to use the Manticore Axe Skin on my Scindo Prime. I can't though. And I say you should be able to, even if it doesn't come with the stat change. Edited June 8, 2015 by Yezzik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts