(PSN)EmilsTekcor Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I think its hilarious that you guys paid money for a basic warframe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naqel Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 (edited) In short: Buff the primes. No reason not to. The reason not to buff prime warframes is that they were never meant to be better than the regular ones. Excalibur Prime wasn't, Frost Prime wasn't, none of the ones past that should have been better. The problem is DE's "optional" approach to balance. Rhino was slow, so they made the prime one faster. Anyone with two brain cells to rub together could immediately see where this would lead, and here we are: with people arguing to put P2W elements into a game, instead of arguing to remove them. Because someone sometime ago put their money on the line, and DE failed at delivering a game where that money feels meaningful. Because everyone is so damn afraid of the word "nerf" they they can barely breath when they think about it. Edited June 10, 2015 by Naqel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FelisImpurrator Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 The reason not to buff prime warframes is that they were never meant to be better than the regular ones. Excalibur Prime wasn't, Frost Prime wasn't, none of the ones past that should have been better. The problem is DE's "optional" approach to balance. Rhino was slow, so they made the prime one faster. Anyone with two brain cells to rub together could immediately see where this would lead, and here we are: with people arguing to put P2W elements into a game, instead of arguing to remove them. Because someone sometime ago put their money on the line, and DE failed at delivering a game where that money feels meaningful. Because everyone is so damn afraid of the word "nerf" they they can barely breath when they think about it. Whoa there, Salt Prime. DE's "optional" approach, complete with airquotes, I see. Thanks for sourcing that direct quotation from the devs. (Artifact gear equivalents being P2W, though? That's a new one to me.) Aaaah! You said "Nerf!" One of the words the Spaceninja Who Say Ni cannot bear to- oh, bugger, that's the wrong sketch. No, really, I'm fine with the nerf bat when it's not being waved at everything in sight (plus Trinity, even if she's offscreen at the moment). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LustyLost-EN- Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I think its hilarious that you guys paid money for a basic warframe. I think its hilarious we kickstarted the game therefore you can play it. Hahahahahahaha look I am laughing with no emotions whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adaptor-Face Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 To be honest I am a bit sad that all Prime warframes are better than their normal verisons except Excalibur Prime. Stats are the same, the only change is looks and polarities... same goes for frost prime, mag prime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironlixivium Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 If excal prime gets a buff, then he'll have to come back. Otherwise, the best version of Excalibur will be exclusive to people who had enough money two years ago. That's ridiculous. :/ Everyone else's excal will become inferior with no hope of ever being upgraded. I don't think he'll ever be boosted. I know someone will bring it up, there are alternatives to skana and lato prime. excalibur is the ONLY swordsman frame, it would be completely unfair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanadra Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 If excal prime gets a buff, then he'll have to come back. Otherwise, the best version of Excalibur will be exclusive to people who had enough money two years ago. That's ridiculous. :/ Everyone else's excal will become inferior with no hope of ever being upgraded. I don't think he'll ever be boosted. I know someone will bring it up, there are alternatives to skana and lato prime. excalibur is the ONLY swordsman frame, it would be completely unfair. And exactly why it would be a silly thing to do without giving those of us without Excal Prime an alternative with the same performance, like an Excal Prisma or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 To be honest, this thread is good and make sense. But the problem is, some "non-Founder" people disturb this discussion. im apologies if my word slashing your heart, but this is what i feel. Founder pack is not cheap man !, that's why the thread starter did this. Haters gonna Hate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoRanger Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Did I miss something? Have Frost, Mag and Ember received buffs? But yes, he should have a buff to something, I just don't think they will buff him because of the people without him complaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solandis Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 If Frost, Mag and Ember also receive buffs than I hardly see the problem. It won't increase my vague annoyance at my inability to acquire Excalibur Prime. It might be in their best interest to make it a hidden update though if they want to decrease riots and whatnot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrsrkr Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 If Frost, Mag and Ember also receive buffs than I hardly see the problem. It won't increase my vague annoyance at my inability to acquire Excalibur Prime. It might be in their best interest to make it a hidden update though if they want to decrease riots and whatnot. THat's a bad idea, since they would RIOT if they found out about it. And someone WILL start to gloat, because people are dumb. Why not just apply the Death Orb thing to the Proto Skin then? It would make people a lot less salty, and you guys get a buffed Excalibur! Everyone wins! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solandis Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 THat's a bad idea, since they would RIOT if they found out about it. And someone WILL start to gloat, because people are dumb. Why not just apply the Death Orb thing to the Proto Skin then? It would make people a lot less salty, and you guys get a buffed Excalibur! Everyone wins! Mmm. Then we just get people getting salty, I'm sorry MORE salty, about the proto armor. I dunno, I feel like the amount of riots would temporarily increase and then eventually die back down into the standard whinging about our inability to acquire him. Though personally I'm more begrudged at my inability to get the Lato Prime; it looks so cool and it makes unique sounds! I want it. Grumble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagPrime Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 -snip- Thank you for clarifying. ^.^ -snip- My apologies, I misunderstood. THat's a bad idea, since they would RIOT if they found out about it. And someone WILL start to gloat, because people are dumb. Why not just apply the Death Orb thing to the Proto Skin then? It would make people a lot less salty, and you guys get a buffed Excalibur! Everyone wins! I actually like the idea of adding the Death Orb buff to Proto Excal... Him having that buff sorta makes sense, since lose cannon is that the Proto is what the Primes are based off of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malikon Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Did I miss something? Have Frost, Mag and Ember received buffs? But yes, he should have a buff to something, I just don't think they will buff him because of the people without him complaining. Ember P did. I dont think its worth mentioning (25 armor), but she did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FelisImpurrator Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 THat's a bad idea, since they would RIOT if they found out about it. And someone WILL start to gloat, because people are dumb. Why not just apply the Death Orb thing to the Proto Skin then? It would make people a lot less salty, and you guys get a buffed Excalibur! Everyone wins! I actually like the idea of adding the Death Orb buff to Proto Excal... Him having that buff sorta makes sense, since lose cannon is that the Proto is what the Primes are based off of. Actually. That- that's actually brilliant. Give Proto Excal (and, hypothetically, if DE ever REALLY does those Wraith Warframe skins, maybe those) the Death Orb effect... and whatever other stat buff the Prime gets. (And make it a little less inaccessible for most of the year, maybe...) At the very least, that would give everyone else an option without taking away from the founder gear. We already know skins can change stats (hi, Brokk Hammer), so that's an option. Or - you know the slot for Valkyr's Bonds/Mortos? Could be an invisible power-accessory thing there. Although lorewise, agreed that it works best with Proto. Hm. Things to consider, still better than the bickering either way. (This, of course, assumes a whole overhaul of the prime frames so their buffs are on the same level.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsoe Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 (edited) Actually. That- that's actually brilliant. Give Proto Excal (and, hypothetically, if DE ever REALLY does those Wraith Warframe skins, maybe those) the Death Orb effect... and whatever other stat buff the Prime gets. (And make it a little less inaccessible for most of the year, maybe...) At the very least, that would give everyone else an option without taking away from the founder gear. We already know skins can change stats (hi, Brokk Hammer), so that's an option. Or - you know the slot for Valkyr's Bonds/Mortos? Could be an invisible power-accessory thing there. Although lorewise, agreed that it works best with Proto. Hm. Things to consider, still better than the bickering either way. (This, of course, assumes a whole overhaul of the prime frames so their buffs are on the same level.) Makin Excal Prime in line with other frame is something that must happen But Makin Proto eXcal in line with Primes would be a great idea from Le Digital Entertainment as much as i want to keep Excal Prime eXclusive , i dont see any reason for not having an alternative for ppl who missed the chance to get it Sadly i am not ok with the VOid death Orbs Regen that is dedicated to Primes Beside that Proto should have Dedicated Buff (armor-Speed-innate 10% Reflex guard using his energy blade to block :D?) Proto excal is suposed to be the only Proto Frame theirefore he deserve something spêcial too OFC he need his own Energy sword as well Edited June 10, 2015 by Tsoe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagPrime Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 (edited) Actually. That- that's actually brilliant. Give Proto Excal (and, hypothetically, if DE ever REALLY does those Wraith Warframe skins, maybe those) the Death Orb effect... and whatever other stat buff the Prime gets. (And make it a little less inaccessible for most of the year, maybe...) At the very least, that would give everyone else an option without taking away from the founder gear. We already know skins can change stats (hi, Brokk Hammer), so that's an option. Or - you know the slot for Valkyr's Bonds/Mortos? Could be an invisible power-accessory thing there. Although lorewise, agreed that it works best with Proto. Hm. Things to consider, still better than the bickering either way. (This, of course, assumes a whole overhaul of the prime frames so their buffs are on the same level.) Proto Excal and Nemesis Nyx skins giving buffs would be awesome, although I'm ehhh on Nemesis Nyx getting it. The only hitch I see if this community banding together, because they do, and screaming - exclusivity (which it isn't, Proto Excal comes around every year.) Power Creep, or demanding (like only a toddler can) that every 'frame gets the exact same treatment. And if DE caved and put in a Proto skin for every Warframe, kiss meaningful lore goodbye. Edited June 10, 2015 by Noamuth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doom_Bunny Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 THat's a bad idea, since they would RIOT if they found out about it. And someone WILL start to gloat, because people are dumb. Why not just apply the Death Orb thing to the Proto Skin then? It would make people a lot less salty, and you guys get a buffed Excalibur! Everyone wins! If it's left out of the patch notes and assumably going to be like the rest of the primes I doubt there would be riots. I also doubt anyone would brag because the buff is only small unless it anything like Volt's, then we're in trouble. As for proto buff I'd say no for now. Most of the community get that Excal prime is exclusive, won't stop them from hassling but they know. However proto skin is widely available every aniversary. So my guess would be the usual mass attention Excal prime gets would turn towards getting DE to release proto skins permanently. Which isn't a bad thing even if they keep proto Excal to the anniversary but I would imagine we would get the same sort of forum trouble, even if DE say no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30mg Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I like the idea Tsoe put out there. Give the proto skin all the buffs that you will be given to prime maybe a small% higher as the proto skin came first and would be more in line with lore to be more powerful than the prime, yet has no polarities as base. Then everyone would be able to enjoy excal without the feeling that you could only get a watered down version. The founders get an excal buff over the normal version, however there is still the achievable in-game variant that is better ( as i am sure that most people would agree that in a f2p game having the best version of an item, even if by only 1 hp only accessible via a payment would seem out of character for the spirit in which these games are marketed.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malikon Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 The founders get an excal buff over the normal version, however there is still the achievable in-game variant that is better ( as i am sure that most people would agree that in a f2p game having the best version of an item, even if by only 1 hp only accessible via a payment would seem out of character for the spirit in which these games are marketed.) Actually most F2P games only allow the free stuff to whet a person's appetite so they'll buy the best versions of the item which are normally only available by payment. And why try to sneak in that proto skin should be more powerful? This whole thread was working towards the idea of a Excal Prime buff to bring him inline with the other primes and a compromise so non-founders could have something equivalent to the updated Excal Prime. Not something superior to the updated Excal Prime. Please just stop with the one-up attempts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30mg Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I think you are mistaken a recent investigation by the European commission and UK have defined terms that to be called free to play all items should be able to be obtained in game that relate to game play (not cosmetic) also this is paraphrasing the article. Otherwise they game would be called free to download. I was not trying to sneak anything it was just a suggestion with the caveat being "maybe". How does the community having access to an equal frame hurt you? you would be getting a buff for the prime version. I also stated the frame comes with no base polarities which would seem like the prime would be better. The only reason that i said that proto should "maybe" have higher stats is that it would fit the lore better, however this is a debate for another time with regards to which is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R34LM Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 We know some players want excal prime and we know it won't happen. I'd like to see all "older" prime warframes have some improved stats, including excalibur, in the same way the recent ones have them. Right now its just cosmetic, but if excal prime gets some volt prime level stat buffs, what happens to those that would only be interested in the increased stats? (like me) I've always been against players asking for excalibur prime to be re-released and I'm also in favor of buffing the lato and skana prime to be more viable weapons, in the same way the braton prime was buffed. If the founder weapons are buffed and I want a weapon as good as a lato prime I just use a vasto prime or a lex prime. But if I want a buffed excalibur .. then what? I agree with you; I would never ask for a Volt Prime style buff, that would truly be unfair. Just one change to his shield, armor, health, etc. would be satisfactory in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R34LM Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 The founders get an excal buff over the normal version, however there is still the achievable in-game variant that is better The counter argument would be "what the hell did I pay for then?". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FelisImpurrator Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Proto Excal and Nemesis Nyx skins giving buffs would be awesome, although I'm ehhh on Nemesis Nyx getting it. The only hitch I see if this community banding together, because they do, and screaming - exclusivity (which it isn't, Proto Excal comes around every year.) Power Creep, or demanding (like only a toddler can) that every 'frame gets the exact same treatment. And if DE caved and put in a Proto skin for every Warframe, kiss meaningful lore goodbye. Never said anything about Nemesis - I'm concerned only with Proto because there's no equivalent to Excal Prime. DE won't do that. It's not exactly an issue. They released these things for art and lore reasons. The beauty of having an alternative to Excal Prime is that no one has to care about the whiners; they're just going to look stupid complaining about what is essentially the lack of a cosmetic item. I like the idea Tsoe put out there. Give the proto skin all the buffs that you will be given to prime maybe a small% higher as the proto skin came first and would be more in line with lore to be more powerful than the prime, yet has no polarities as base. Then everyone would be able to enjoy excal without the feeling that you could only get a watered down version. The founders get an excal buff over the normal version, however there is still the achievable in-game variant that is better ( as i am sure that most people would agree that in a f2p game having the best version of an item, even if by only 1 hp only accessible via a payment would seem out of character for the spirit in which these games are marketed.) Actually most F2P games only allow the free stuff to whet a person's appetite so they'll buy the best versions of the item which are normally only available by payment. And why try to sneak in that proto skin should be more powerful? This whole thread was working towards the idea of a Excal Prime buff to bring him inline with the other primes and a compromise so non-founders could have something equivalent to the updated Excal Prime. Not something superior to the updated Excal Prime. Please just stop with the one-up attempts. Annnnnnd no, don't ruin it. Not "better". The entire point was that any alternatives should be sidegrades. Strictly. Polarity isn't even an issue, it's one piece of Void Candy Forma. Only thing that would be carried over is stats and they don't need to be any higher. Also - most F2P games do that because most F2P games are also P2W crap. Since Warframe isn't, there's no reason why it should follow anything remotely close to the same formula. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagPrime Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Never said anything about Nemesis - I'm concerned only with Proto because there's no equivalent to Excal Prime. DE won't do that. It's not exactly an issue. They released these things for art and lore reasons. The beauty of having an alternative to Excal Prime is that no one has to care about the whiners; they're just going to look stupid complaining about what is essentially the lack of a cosmetic item. Annnnnnd no, don't ruin it. Not "better". The entire point was that any alternatives should be sidegrades. Strictly. Polarity isn't even an issue, it's one piece of Void Candy Forma. Only thing that would be carried over is stats and they don't need to be any higher. Also - most F2P games do that because most F2P games are also P2W crap. Since Warframe isn't, there's no reason why it should follow anything remotely close to the same formula. I only tossed Nemesis Nyx in because it could be argued that she should get the same buffs as Proto Excal. I'm not a fan of the idea but it's arguable that the lore would support it. And Yeah, not better, just a side grade and lore improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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