Please Remove Friendship Doors.

[SquirmyBurrito]

This is what I'm referring to

 

New year, new thread (my previous threads were archived). READ THE ORANGE TEXT BEFORE READING THE REST OF THE POST. IF YOU FAIL TO STAY ON TOPIC I WILL REPORT YOUR POST(S).

 

"The topic is the removal of the doors due to them benefiting no one and only serving to prevent players from progressing for however long it takes for the second person to get there and open the door. They do not guarantee that slower players will be able to keep pace with the rusher for the rest of the mission. They don't benefit anyone. Discussing the experiences of a non-rusher and comparing them to a rusher's (or vice versa) is perfectly fine as long as its aim remains to discuss the doors. Do not attempt to have a Rusher vs. Non-Rusher argument in this thread. This is no the place for it and I will immediately report any posts that I see doing it."

 

The reasoning behind my request stems from their (the door's) failure to positively affect anyone's gameplay experience. I will explain how this applies under different assumptions:

 

If the doors were meant to be an anti rush mechanic, they fail because if a Rusher is moving fast enough that that it manages to get to the door well before the other players do, forcing said rusher to wait for them to catch up doesn't provide them (the other players) with any benefit. Because catching up with the rusher for that one door means nothing. As soon as that door is open that rusher will most likely leave them in the dust again. 

 

If the doors were meant to stop rushers from killing the boss/ending the mission too quickly they fail again because nothing is preventing the rusher from going back to rushing the second the door is open. When you have a full party the extraction timer will not start until more than one person is at extraction.

 

If the doors are meant to allow/force players to re-group... They still fails as it only requires two people to interact with it for them to proceed, meaning the first two players don't have to wait for the other two.

 

So what I'm saying is:

 

1. The doors don't work as an anti-rush mechanic.

2. They don't contribute to a positive gameplay experience. 

3. They don't benefit anyone.

4. They are still present in solo.

5. They can be reworked but until then, they should be removed.

6. Countermeasures to prevent a single fast player from ending the mission early in a full party game are unnecessary as it is already impossible for a single player to start the extraction timer when the other three are alive and not present at extraction.

7. I have no problem with friendship doors (or a better alternative) being placed right before objective tiles.

 

"When there are two rushers, the door is a minor inconvenience that adds nothing to the experience. As such, it fails to keep the two rushers with the two slow players. Door fails.

With one rusher, the door is a large inconvenience, but the rusher will not stay with the group either way as soon as the door is opened, it adds a negative experience to the rusher but no positive experience to the slow players. Door fails, only garners negativity. 

With no rushers, the door is a minor inconvenience that adds nothing to their experience, its purpose is unneeded. Intention succeeds, but not because of the door which was pointless in this scenario, thus still 'failing'.  

The rushers should play solo is largely irrelevant to the debate, the doors always fail at doing what it's intended to do, regardless of any number of rushers. The only time you need a friendship door is in front of a boss tile. I would say other mission objective tiles as well but nothing is really that significant except for maybe Capture targets. The door does nothing but add a minor inconvenience to the game, at least lockdowns create a unique experience and provide a full breathing room if needed as well as a puzzle to solve-simple though it may be.

This is not about playstyle but the doors purpose. In the majority of cases, the door fails or is not needed. The last case, one rusher in a group of four, is highly subjective to each case but most likely it still fails at that purpose because it's randomly placed." <----------quote tag broke, lol

 

For those wondering, yes I did copypaste my last thread. It already contained most of what I had to say on the subject and I didn't really want to spend half an hour retyping what I already stated (if this thread goes the same direction the previous threads did, I'll end up having to repeat myself anyway -_-"). Yes, I know this was 'addressed' in a poll on a community hot topic thread and I do not care. Rallying is the only way to get things changed.

 

 

Just going to add this to the OP

 

As I've already thoroughly explained, the doors aren't providing you with any benefit. In your example you bring up a situation where there is only one rusher. If there is one rusher the doors are doing nothing but crapifying the rusher's experience. They provide you with no benefit. If the doors weren't there that single rusher wouldn't be able to do anything. It takes more than one person to start the extraction timer. If there is more than one rusher your entire argument falls apart. You can claim you didn't experience any inconvenience, but the fact is that claim is false. The very act of having to stop what you're doing to activate a console just so you can proceed is an inconvenience. It doesn't add to a positive gaming experience. As I already stated, a single rusher can't do anything to hurry a four man squad with three non-rushers. Even in assassination missions the only thing the rusher can do is kill the boss and run to extraction (assuming no friendship doors pop up). That rusher can stand at extraction for twenty hours while you and your other squad mates take turns counting the amount of pixels in the rest of the level and the mission will still not forcibly change your style of play. The biggest inconvenience that the rusher's presence in extraction can cause you is the annoyance of having a small portion of your screen taken up by the message that a player is waiting in extraction. The doors literally do nothing except aid in the creation of a negative gaming experience. Your claim that there is no difference between solo and group play for a rusher is blatantly false and screams ignorance on your part.

 

Now, can you ACTUALLY provide a solid argument for why the doors should stay as-is that DOESN'T boil down to "I don't like rushers, these doors annoy them, so they should stay"? Because if that is the only argument you can provide, I'm going to have to ask you to leave this thread. That argument is the same one that caused the derailment of my other threads.

 

Oh and, if you read the OP why are you still bringing up solo play? As I stated IN RED, friendship doors are still present in solo play. They function like normal locked doors, except they don't have a puzzle. So they're basically randomly generated brief pauses that add nothing positive to gameplay. They're a minor inconvenience (at best) and any inconvenience that doesn't contribute to a better gaming experience is one that shouldn't exist. So to recap:

-The 'just play solo' argument has been completely stomped into the dirt.

-"I don't like rushers and therefore I'm in support of anything that annoys them" isn't a valid argument.

-The doors fail to achieve anything meaningful in there current state.

-One rusher can't force a group of non-rushers to extract earlier than they want to.

-If you're in a group with more than one rusher you are no longer in the majority and the doors will completely fail to benefit you (the non-rushers) while only providing a minor inconvenience for the rushers.

 

Edited February 3, 2015 by Letter13
Moved orange text higher up, as it ought to be read first.

[(PSN)torvahn]

Didn't read

I support the removal of these doors, they are pointless.

When something legitimately detracts from an enjoyable gameplay experience i will support it,these doors are an absolute menace.

Edited January 22, 2015 by (PS4)torvahn

[Morgax]

I don't mind them that much, the only thing i hate about them are the console placements, sometimes they collide with wall textures or leave very little space to activate them.

[TheErebus.]

To quote myself from a previous thread:

 

I supported it :>

And I shall support it now :>

[Turnoverman]

Agreed, of course.

 

Pointless, painful mechanic is pointless and painful.

 

Gotta go Fast!

~Sanic Volt

[SgtFlex]

Yeah, there's really no point to these doors.. Rushers will be rushers anyways

[VKhaun]

I really want to disagree because when you step away from the microscope and view them in context of the rest of the game, they CAN help if just one rusher is ruining a PUG when combined with lots of other factors... but DE is not putting in other factors and it's not just one rusher anymore. Rushing is the standard meta for anything under lv25 and still common above that, with a weird area in the high 30's where people start dying.

 

So I guess I have to support? I play the same game you do and they're annoying to me too. If they're not going to do anything, be part of anything or support anything then lets get rid of 'em I guess. I'd rather see a dev post about the subject of rushing in general though. :/

 

EDIT--

I've been on the boards since people were arguing Rusher vs Explorer. When I say "RUSH" I mean ignoring enemies and running past them to do the objective because they can't stop your OP setup, not simply playing quickly. If you're killing all the things then I have no problem with speed, though I might like it better if speed had a higher skill cap sometimes. Rhino Prime + Arcane Thrak + Rush + Iron Skin + No Fucks Given is annoying to group with.

Edited January 22, 2015 by VKhaun

[d3me]

Or they could be turned into hack doors (you must hack a console to pass), like that carts that block passages in Grineer Asteroid tilesets

[Krion112]

Sometimes, it's also very detrimental. As I've talked about forever ago, my friends and I will often split up in missions that give us the ability to, such as Hive, Spy, and Survival. Occasionally, we'll be going our different ways and one of us will be stuck at a friendship door.

 

Also, some tilesets don't even have friendship doors. Just, all around, they don't seem to do what they intended to do and are only making the experience worse for all Tenno. I say I agree, let's get rid of them.

[SgtFlex]

Or they could be turned into hack doors (you must hack a console to pass), like that carts that block passages in Grineer Asteroid tilesets

This doesn't actually sound half bad IMO because it slows down the rushers, but it still allows a single player to get through anyways.

 

 

Perhaps even if you failed to hack in time, Alarms would go off, the door would be in lockdown mode for 15 seconds, and a full squad would bum rush the hell outta you

[Arcane_Intelligence]

Or they could be turned into hack doors (you must hack a console to pass), like that carts that block passages in Grineer Asteroid tilesets

 

This could work, but I can´t say what others think.

[Acos]

Your argument hinges (heh, door pun) on the idea that the doors are purposefully meant to stop people from doing speed runs as efficiently. I think you need to first prove that the doors intended purpose is what you describe.

It's entirely possible that they are meant as a re-grouping mechanism for a normal group of players to aide in keeping your team together as it is quite easy for a novice team to get split up given the hectic nature of the game. I had assumed that was their intended purpose before speed running became as prevalent as it has been in this game and before it became a topic of discussion.

Assuming they are meant as a subtle method of keeping your group together rather than an anti-speed running mechanism, I find them effective. The message that someone needs you to help open a door effectively persuades people to stop whatever they were doing (battle lust and all that), and instead attempt to find you and assist you opening the door. Elevators, Lock-Down status, and Grineer hacking obstacles all serve a similar purpose.

All that being said, I do agree with you that they aren't a huge impediment to speed runners. Your argument under those assumptions is pretty solid.
 

During one of the Alad V events awhile back there was an event during the mission where Lotus would need to remotely hack the door while you fought off a wave of enemies. I actually thought this was a much better mechanic to discourage speed running as it *forced* you to stop progressing through the level, gave other people a chance to catch up, and would encourage players to stick together so they wouldn't have to face the enemy reinforcements alone. If the 'Friendship Doors' were changed to do that instead I would find them significantly more useful at halting speed running (assuming, again, that is their intended purpose).

Edited January 22, 2015 by Acos

[--Q--uaint]

I agree, with one exception. The friendship door at the entrance to the Rescue room should stay, because it gives you control of when you open it. This gives you the opportunity to clear out any nearby enemies, turn off the alarms, and proceed with your stealth.

[SquirmyBurrito]

snip

 

I used that as the premise of my argument because that is the only purpose that makes any sense. If they're meant as a re-grouping mechanism they fail horribly as only two players are needed (and the fact that they still exist in solo mode kinda conflicts with that). Assuming the norm is four player co-op, these doors only make the two fastest players re-group momentarily and then do nothing to prevent the faster player(s) from separating once more. 

 

The issue with the way those event doors worked is it halted mission progress by a sizable amount of time. Some of us didn't/don't like the idea of having non-defense missions turned into defense missions everytime the game decides to throw a friendship door at us.

[Repligon]

They annoy rushers. For only this reason they should stay.

 

If you want to rush - play solo, don't ruin fun to your non-rushing pug squadmates.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Repligon

[--Q--uaint]

They annoy non-rushers just as much, if not more.

[MonkeyWaffles]

a possible middle way is to put a timer if there arent more than one players present to open the door

[SquirmyBurrito]

If you want to rush - play solo, don't ruin fun to your non-rushing pug squadmates.

 

Re-read the OP. I am NOT about to start this crap again. I have already addressed this argument numerous times in the past and even preemptively addressed it in the OP. You using it can only mean you didn't bother reading the OP in its entirety. 

 

Also, do not start a rusher vs. non-rusher discussion in this thread. That is off topic.

[counterflux]

I kinda like them in rescue missions.

rushers often get to the holding area first and then they simply die to the stronger enemies there

or they activate the security causing the hostage to die.

 

If the squad isn't togheter at that point a lot of missions fail. (unless you bring overpowered frames to that area that is.)

 

for other missions they can be removed. But this will give newer (slower) players a bad feeling about warframe. They usually can't rush them and have to kill all enemies by themself while there are X people waiting at the extraction point. So I suggest remove them only from mid/high levels.

Edited January 22, 2015 by counterflux

[SquirmyBurrito]

I kinda like them in rescue missions.

rushers often get to the holding area first and then they simply die to the stronger enemies there

or they activate the security cousing the hostage to die.

 

If the squad isn't togheter at that point a lot of missions fail. (unless you bring overpowered frames to that area that is.)

 

for other missions they can be removed. But this will give newer (slower) players a bad feeling about warframe. They usually can't rush them and have to kill all enemies by themself while there are X people waiting at the extraction point. So I suggest remove them only from mid/high levels.

 

I stated in the OP that I do not mind them being present prior (immediately before) objective tiles.

 

I also explained how their (the doors') presence doesn't really do anything to help players catch up for more than a few seconds (if that, two rushers can guarantee that the two non-rushers never catch up). As for the new players, I personally think they're more of a detriment as once a player gets to the door and starts activating the console all the other players have to deal with a message that basically says 'hurry the hell up' (in nicer words obviously, lol). If there are two or more rushers present, the door's presence will only end up adding a few seconds to the total amount of time that the slower new player has to get to extraction which rarely (if ever) actually helps. If DE wants to add something more effective in their place, I have no problem with that. As long as they're  more than a simple (and temporary) annoyance for some players.

[--Q--uaint]

I stated in the OP that I do not mind them being present prior (immediately before) objective tiles.

 

Rereading, yes, I see that. But it's a passing mention. Maybe edit it into your bullet points?

[SquirmyBurrito]

Rereading, yes, I see that. But it's a passing mention. Maybe edit it into your bullet points?

 

Sure.

Edit: Done.

Edited January 22, 2015 by SquirmyBurrito

[Repligon]

Re-read the OP. I am NOT about to start this crap again. I have already addressed this argument numerous times in the past and even preemptively addressed it in the OP. You using it can only mean you didn't bother reading the OP in its entirety. 

I did read the OP.

Because catching up with the rusher for that one door means nothing. As soon as that door is open that rusher will most likely leave them in the dust again. 

If door lets me (and my squadmates) actually enjoy game at least until I (we) reach it - then it is doing good. If there are more rushers then, well, I am minority and I don't mind. But usually for me pugs don't rush much and it's good when one single rusher can't ruin fun for whole group for at least part of the mission. Maybe incovenience of the door will urge him to not be lazy and switch to solo next time. Because there is no difference between solo and group for rusher. But at the same time playing in group is more enjoyable for non-rusher.

 

I've played syndicate mission not long ago. Of course I wanted to search for medalions but in the middle of the mission a rusher joined. I was so happy when he bumped into friendship door just near extraction so I didn't had to restart the mission.

 

And no, I am not saying that non-rushers are better than rushers. I myself rush sometimes but only in solo or if my squadmates want to rush too. And I never experienced any inconvenience caused by friendship door. If you did, then maybe at the same time you caused someone else feel bad because of sudden forced change of playstyle.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Repligon

[SquirmyBurrito]

I did read the OP.

If door lets me (and my squadmates) actually enjoy game at least until I (we) reach it - then it is doing good. If there are more rushers then, well, I am minority and I don't mind. But usually for me pugs don't rush much and it's good when one single rusher can't ruin fun for whole group for at least part of the mission. Maybe incovenience of the door will urge him to not be lazy and switch to solo next time. Because there is no difference between solo and group for rusher. But at the same time playing in group is more enjoyable for non-rusher.

 

I've played syndicate mission not long ago. Of course I wanted to search for medalions but in the middle of the mission a rusher joined. I was so happy when he bumped into friendship door just near extraction so I didn't had to restart the mission.

 

And no, I am not saying that non-rushers are better than rushers. I myself rush sometimes but only in solo or if my squadmates want to rush too. And I never experienced any inconvenience caused by friendship door. If you did, then maybe at the same time you caused someone else feel bad because of sudden forced change of playstyle.

 

As I've already thoroughly explained, the doors aren't providing you with any benefit. In your example you bring up a situation where there is only one rusher. If there is one rusher the doors are doing nothing but crapifying the rusher's experience. They provide you with no benefit. If the doors weren't there that single rusher wouldn't be able to do anything. It takes more than one person to start the extraction timer. If there is more than one rusher your entire argument falls apart. You can claim you didn't experience any inconvenience, but the fact is that claim is false. The very act of having to stop what you're doing to activate a console just so you can proceed is an inconvenience. It doesn't add to a positive gaming experience. As I already stated, a single rusher can't do anything to hurry a four man squad with three non-rushers. Even in assassination missions the only thing the rusher can do is kill the boss and run to extraction (assuming no friendship doors pop up). That rusher can stand at extraction for twenty hours while you and your other squad mates take turns counting the amount of pixels in the rest of the level and the mission will still not forcibly change your style of play. The biggest inconvenience that the rusher's presence in extraction can cause you is the annoyance of having a small portion of your screen taken up by the message that a player is waiting in extraction. The doors literally do nothing except aid in the creation of a negative gaming experience. Your claim that there is no difference between solo and group play for a rusher is blatantly false and screams ignorance on your part.

 

Now, can you ACTUALLY provide a solid argument for why the doors should stay as-is that DOESN'T boil down to "I don't like rushers, these doors annoy them, so they should stay"? Because if that is the only argument you can provide, I'm going to have to ask you to leave this thread. That argument is the same one that caused the derailment of my other threads.

 

Oh and, if you read the OP why are you still bringing up solo play? As I stated IN RED, friendship doors are still present in solo play. They function like normal locked doors, except they don't have a puzzle. So they're basically randomly generated brief pauses that add nothing positive to gameplay. They're a minor inconvenience (at best) and any inconvenience that doesn't contribute to a better gaming experience is one that shouldn't exist. So to recap:

-The 'just play solo' argument has been completely stomped into the dirt.

-"I don't like rushers and therefore I'm in support of anything that annoys them" isn't a valid argument.

-The doors fail to achieve anything meaningful in there current state.

-One rusher can't force a group of non-rushers to extract earlier than they want to.

-If you're in a group with more than one rusher you are no longer in the majority and the doors will completely fail to benefit you (the non-rushers) while only providing a minor inconvenience for the rushers.

[--Q--uaint]

As I stated IN RED, friendship doors are still present in solo play. They function like normal locked doors, except they don't have a puzzle. So they're basically randomly generated brief pauses that add nothing positive to gameplay. They're a minor inconvenience (at best) and any inconvenience that doesn't contribute to a better gaming experience is one that shouldn't exist.

 

*Except for right before objective rooms. I still like those in solo.