Please Remove Friendship Doors.

[superbot34]

I have already explained what the problem is and will not repeat myself.

 

 

yeah, you have explained to us that you are so disadvantaged by pressing a button that you demand it removed from solo missions so you can rush as fast as possible and go the easiest way through a mission. we already got that hint, while everyone else presses the button without whining about it on an entire forum post -_-

[SquirmyBurrito]

yeah, you have explained to us that you are so disadvantaged by pressing a button that you demand it removed from solo missions so you can rush as fast as possible and go the easiest way through a mission. we already got that hint, while everyone else presses the button without whining about it on an entire forum post -_-

 

If you don't like the content of my posts or the OP, add me to your ignore list or leave.

_______________

 

Mokkania I'm not ignoring your post, I'm just not looking forward to responding to such a large post. I will respond to it after work tomorrow assuming I don't get distracted.

[KirukaChan]

I like the friendship doors, because enemies can't open them and I can shoot them through it with my Redeemer.

[Big_Gunz]

Friendship doors are fine.

 

1) Cuts off enemies.

2) Speed runners annoy me...

[SquirmyBurrito]

Friendship doors are fine.

 

1) Cuts off enemies.

2) Speed runners annoy me...

 

1. Enemies can spawn behind you.

2. Irrelevant.

[(PSN)theelix]

1. Enemies can spawn behind you.

2. Irrelevant.

Except when you've killed all the enemies on your side. The enemies on the other side will just run into the door and you can shoot through it.

Also negatively impacting gameplay, because it's exploitable.

[BrazilianJoe]

Well I have posted once in this thread and I think I'd like to chime in again. 

 

OP trying block the rusher vs. non-rusher argument out of the thread is badly worded in a way too aggressive manner.

 

The problem is the raison d'etre of the friendship doors, one can't really discuss their  usefulness without talking about rushers. 

 

I understand that they are not the core subject of the thread though, and the OP does not want the thread to be a rusher vs. non-rusher feud.

 

I see OP being way too annoyed by friendship doors and portraying the "problem" as being huge, but that's just OP's perception.

 

I took myself through the trouble of researching what my memory served me, and digged up the hot topic when friendship doors were polled.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/286178-august-8th-community-hot-topics/

 

It can be seen there that:

 

62.1% of the community wanted them to stay.

22.16% wanted them  to be removed. 

7.45% wanted them to be changed somehow.

8.28% didn't care. 

 

So it's a 3-to-1 ratio of players which would rather have them stay. Note that the 7.45% can be added to the 62.1 in the 'don't remove' topic. THey just want them changed. 

 

We have some very vocal proponents of "remove the doors!" here, but they are not many different posters. The amount of posts they make to the forums demonstrates that they are deeply commited to the game, so I will not just dismiss their opinion.

 

But there are a few hard facts right there about the opinion of the majority of the player base.

 

It's a statistic, a sample of the player base. While it's not a census of the entire player base, it's a random sample of the player base. But can we trust it? 

 

While I'm not a statistician, I have been exposed to statistics in my line of work, and have some tools programmed by statisticians available to me. 

 

 

I have simulated an active player base of 6 million to answer the question:

 

What's the sample size necessary to get a poll result which will be within 0.05% of the actual opinion of the whole population with 99.9% confidence? 

 

The result was: 1083 individuals of the population. 

 

If the active player base is smaller, the sample would be smaller. 

 

Since that answer to the poll has 2053 answers, we can be damn sure it's pretty representative of the player base. 

 

 

The majority of the active player base is not bothered by the friendship doors and want them to stay, mathematically proven. 

 

Still, we are in an exercise of continuous improvement and the YOQ (year of quality) in Warframe. While I do not share the opinion of  OP that the doors should be removed, I think the questions: "are they adequately serving their purpose?", "can they be improved?" are very valid ones. 

 

 

And that inevitably leads us back to the rusher vs. non-rusher issue, which is a partially social problem - the social part can't be fixed by code.

But there may also be some deterrents in-game, the friendship door is our mostly saviour, sometimes bane. 

 

If it is not optimal at doing its task at hand - deterring the antisocial, fun-spoiling rusher (rushing is a valid gameplay in certain circumstances) - it does NOT lead to "remove the doors" as the ONLY valid solution. What else can be done to improve them?

Edited February 2, 2015 by BrazilianJoe

[SquirmyBurrito]

Except when you've killed all the enemies on your side. The enemies on the other side will just run into the door and you can shoot through it.

Also negatively impacting gameplay, because it's exploitable.

 

That only applies to extermination missions.

 

Well I have posted once in this thread and I think I'd like to chime in again. 

 

OP trying block the rusher vs. non-rusher argument out of the thread is badly worded in a way too aggressive manner.

 

The problem is the raison d'etre of the friendship doors, one can't really discuss their  usefulness without talking about rushers. 

 

I understand that they are not the core subject of the thread though, and the OP does not want the thread to be a rusher vs. non-rusher feud.

 

I see OP being way too annoyed by friendship doors and portraying the "problem" as being huge, but that's just OP's perception.

 

I took myself through the trouble of researching what my memory served me, and digged up the hot topic when friendship doors were polled.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/286178-august-8th-community-hot-topics/

 

It can be seen there that:

 

62.1% of the community wanted them to stay.

22.16% wanted them  to be removed. 

7.45% wanted them to be changed somehow.

8.28% didn't care. 

 

So it's a 3-to-1 ratio of players which would rather have them stay. Note that the 7.45% can be added to the 62.1 in the 'don't remove' topic. THey just want them changed. 

 

We have some very vocal proponents of "remove the doors!" here, but they are not many different posters. The amount of posts they make to the forums demonstrates that they are deeply commited to the game, so I will not just dismiss their opinion.

 

But there are a few hard facts right there about the opinion of the majority of the player base.

 

It's a statistic, a sample of the player base. While it's not a census of the entire player base, it's a random sample of the player base. But can we trust it? 

 

While I'm not a statistician, I have been exposed to statistics in my line of work, and have some tools programmed by statisticians available to me. 

 

 

I have simulated an active player base of 6 million to answer the question:

 

What's the sample size necessary to get a poll result which will be within 0.05% of the actual opinion of the whole population with 99.9% confidence? 

 

The result was: 1083 individuals of the population. 

 

If the active player base is smaller, the sample would be smaller. 

 

Since that answer to the poll has 2053 answers, we can be damn sure it's pretty representative of the player base. 

 

 

The majority of the active player base is not bothered by the friendship doors and want them to stay, mathematically proven. 

 

Still, we are in an exercise of continuous improvement and the YOQ (year of quality) in Warframe. While I do not share the opinion of  OP that the doors should be removed, I think the questions: "are they adequately serving their purpose?", "can they be improved?" are very valid ones. 

 

 

And that inevitably leads us back to the rusher vs. non-rusher issue, which is a partially social problem - the social part can't be fixed by code.

But there may also be some deterrents in-game, the friendship door is our mostly saviour, sometimes bane. 

 

If it is not optimal at doing its task at hand - deterring the antisocial, fun-spoiling rusher (rushing is a valid gameplay in certain circumstances) - it does NOT lead to "remove the doors" as the ONLY valid solution. What else can be done to improve them?

 

I worded it aggressively because I am strongly against it. That flamewar is what caused my other thread to get locked.

I don't care about that poll.

As I stated in the OP, their removal does not have to be permanent. I want them removed until something worthwhile can be created to take their place.

 

Not sure what you mean by 'mostly saviour', the things stated in the OP and by numerous people after that perfectly illustrate why that is false. The four main 'solutions' I have seen brought up across my three threads are:

1. Remove them and replace them with something that worthwhile./Remove them permanently.

2. Leave them in for now and tweak/change them later.

3. Leave them as is.

4. Make them require all four player's input (I assume the number required to open the door would decrease if the total party size was smaller).

 

I put them in order of best to worst idea based on my opinion. I sincerely hope no one actually supports #4 anymore.

 

From, what I remember from the other thread and how it is here too, it's not where you're going, you're basically barring any mention close or far to that.

 

It's not me who is saying rushers are a problem, it's players, and it's players who are answering your thread and whom you are also answering to.

 

There are some yes, some.

 

Well, reading what I can read, the only thing I see is that what makes sense for others doesn't for you

 

If the issue originate from another problem, and the problem is not resolved, a lot of people aren't going to accept it.

But not untrue it could work like that.

 

You went from a generality to a situational.

 

That's not how the situation I described work, and also at the root, not how a preventive effect works

Well, I do remember saying that the thing that came out from all the debates is that basically you can't stand waiting.

 

In other way, you didn't read at all what I said.

You've got an awful way with going from situation A to situation B, thinking that B being a different situation and making the thing look like it doesn't work, invalidate situation A where it works.

But the point about stalker is not untrue (just as a side note it's not the case anymore)

 

The only discussions I am allowing are those on friendship doors, and the ones you and ~1 other person are having with me where you try and tell me I should allow rusher vs. non-rusher discussions. This is to prevent the thread from going off-topic and turning into a flamewar.

 

It is some players.

 

I know, that's what I just said.

 

No, it wasn't that it didn't make sense for me it was that their claim (enemies not spawning behind you) only really applies to certain mission types (extermination). And the antagonistic reasons weren't worth mentioning as they were antagonistic. Saying you (not you specifically) want them to stay because they annoy rushers isn't a valid reason.

 

The issue is, the 'problem' hasn't even been officially (IIRC) declared a problem by DE. The only ones declaring rushers to be a problem are the anti-rushers (not to be confused with non-rushers). DE has said (on numerous occasions) things that sanction both playstyles and has been steadily adding to the rusher's toolkit. Whether or not rushers are a problem is subjective, whether or not these doors force you to stop playing for 1.61+ seconds isn't debatable.  As even if your team is moving at the same pace you will be halted for that 1.61 seconds while the door opens.

 

That isn't situational. If a player activate the console their intent is clearly to proceed.

 

The doors do not work as a preventive incentive. And I'm pretty sure I already addressed that falsehood. I do not mind a meaningful wait. Being forced to wait because of some sort of positive/neutral experience contributing factor isn't something I'd be bothered by. But being stopped by something that contributes nothing positive, can be negative at times, and is at best neutral (players not realizing how annoying it is until they see my thread and start taking notice of all the times they're forced to stand around pressing their activation key hoping another player will come along and allow them to continue enjoying the game) isn't something I'm going to be happy to wait on. Weapon/frame/gear/etc build times I can understand, they have a clear purpose, the wait associated with these doors do not. "but they allow the other players to catch up" --only if the other players are moving at the same speed and even then only for the brief amount of time it takes the rusher to leave them in the dust again.

 

I've read everything you said.

No, I don't.

Yeah I'm pretty sure he locks down the room now. The example still works if you substitute him with normal enemies (especially infested).

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

OP and other posters dislike the friendship doors because they force them to wait for somebody else, often times. 
I like that. It can add a bit of tension as I defend the area until my teammate can hack his way to my location. 

In fact, I'd prefer to add even more wait to these doors.

Excluding them from exterminate missions and possibly sabotage, should you run across one, Lotus finds it to be a bit trickier to hack, and so does it herself. You are given a timer until the door opens and enemies spawn with increased vigor. You are forced to fight hoping for Lotus to finish the hack so you can get out of there. Maybe reserve that for higher level missions, I don't know, but that is how I'd prefer it changed. 

I seem to be the exact opposite of poster's here and would prefer more wait, where they prefer none.

[(PSN)IkariWarrior83]

OP and other posters dislike the friendship doors because they force them to wait for somebody else, often times. 

I like that. It can add a bit of tension as I defend the area until my teammate can hack his way to my location. 

I can't speak for everyone, but I dislike the doors because they serve no apparent purpose, not because I'm impatient.  As I've stated previously, I don't mind them when they serve a purpose: specifically, right before an objective so that if it's a difficult objective, like a boss or a rescue mission, the entire team can gather and coordinate.

 

With the exception of rescue missions, the doors currently serve no purpose.  "To make you wait" is not a purpose.  Do the doors detract from the experience? In general no, but in some instances yes. I agree 100% of the time that they don't add anything to the experience, either.  

 

They're especially annoying during spy missions where 3 consoles are in one direction, and the other console is on the other side of the map.  If you're that outlier who is trying to EXPEDITE the mission by getting that module, you can't because this door is literally in the way.  Then you have two choices; wait for everyone to catch up, or run back to help them.  Either way it's a waste of time.  You don't need 2 people to retrieve a single module.

 

Another possibility is that you start a match, and it's you and one other person.  If that person steps away from their console or pc, or they just want to unlock the node without doing any work, you're screwed for that mission.  If you get a rare mod or a rare resource (Neural sensors are STUPID hard to come by) you lose that stuff because not only was someone inconsiderate, but that door was in your way, and for no reason other than "because."

 

To reiterate: it's not about the wait, but the purpose and placement of these doors that I feel is the issue at hand.

Edited February 2, 2015 by (PS4)IkariWarrior83

[Mokkania]

The only discussions I am allowing are those on friendship doors, and the ones you and ~1 other person are having with me where you try and tell me I should allow rusher vs. non-rusher discussions. This is to prevent the thread from going off-topic and turning into a flamewar.

right, for now it seems okay

 

I know, that's what I just said.

(just an off topic remark, but things aren't going to advance much if the only answer for arguments outside of your own is that you don't understand)

 

No, it wasn't that it didn't make sense for me it was that their claim (enemies not spawning behind you) only really applies to certain mission types (extermination). And the antagonistic reasons weren't worth mentioning as they were antagonistic. Saying you (not you specifically) want them to stay because they annoy rushers isn't a valid reason.

**well, it goes both way, when they cite their reason and ignore the antagonistic, it's the same for you, just where the difference of interest is.

 

The issue is, the 'problem' hasn't even been officially (IIRC) declared a problem by DE. The only ones declaring rushers to be a problem are the anti-rushers (not to be confused with non-rushers). DE has said (on numerous occasions) things that sanction both playstyles and has been steadily adding to the rusher's toolkit. Whether or not rushers are a problem is subjective, whether or not these doors force you to stop playing for 1.61+ seconds isn't debatable.  As even if your team is moving at the same pace you will be halted for that 1.61 seconds while the door opens.

I'm only saying that these people (anti rushers) when they come on your thread, you can't convince them of anything aside from resolving what they consider the problem, if they're here for this you can't get them without resolving it. (from your vision they're off topic, but in effect, no matter the point they should still oppose the removal)

As for the default wait, some are bothered and some are not.

 

That isn't situational. If a player activate the console their intent is clearly to proceed.

It's situational, for exemple, what if I said, random guy's intent is not to proceed?

Well, but we'll have to go back and forth again so I'll explain,

waiting in itself is not anything bad or good, it's neutral, but going from your answer you "sort" of already know,

the situation above you're talking about is already taking account of the fact that the person is going to move forward, but it's not an absolute fact that everyone will always want to go forward

But this one is only a derivative, another exemple is that it's not absolute that someone will always want a continuous pace.

 

The doors do not work as a preventive incentive.

Going back to what I said, it's relative, because we can't really tell without being in the mind of people,

**The exact effect of how it would work is what I described, when the other players coincidentally do not seem to want rush, not wanting to wait at the door, the person decide to not rush (in contrast to the situation you describe where someone is willing to risk waiting at the door thinking he's not going to be the only rusher)

 

But being stopped by something that contributes nothing positive, can be negative at times, and is at best neutral (players not realizing how annoying it is until they see my thread and start taking notice of all the times they're forced to stand around pressing their activation key hoping another player will come along and allow them to continue enjoying the game)

**As I said, there are some people who goes the way you say "some people" but some other are providing some little pieces of arguments, and if in their eyes it's beneficial then it's "not neutral at best"

 

No, I don't.

related points are **

 

The example still works if you substitute him with normal enemies (especially infested).

Point about the overrun thing is that instead or risking being encircled narrowing number of possible entrances make you able to control the flow of incoming ennemies

**Infested can somewhat work against it, yes, point doesn't change though.

[(PSN)LunaticGunner]

Maybe DE can shed some light on the original intent of the doors.  If the original intent is still valid, then we can discuss if we agree it's still valid.  If the original intent isn't there any longer, then remove them.

 

Personally, I don't care for them.  If a player doesn't want me to rush through a level, they simply need to tell me in chat and I will be happy to help them out with whatever searching they want to do.

[Zerakh_Ezekhiel]

A lot of what I say here was included to clarify how I came about my opinion, so if you think it's off-topic then you might as well report/delete the entire thread and not just this post. It's not like I'm talking about your mum's melons.

I used to be an anti-rusher, but then I took a.... zephyr, and am now a rusher myself.

Or rather, I could keep up with rushers before that and would promote teaming up/sticking together by not pressing the button and such but I found that nobody -really- gives a damn (both rushers, non- and anti-) and so I started rushing, with little regard for my squad mates, myself. Everybody pretty much sticks to their play style regardless of the presence of those doors anyway.

 

Honestly... I don't really think the door is that much of a problem. The added waiting time for other players to catch up usually doesn't end up significantly extending my mission time, and during the time they take to catch up I can search for marks. So it's not too bad. And I do respect other players' inability to rush and that they need more time to catch up. In most cases though, I have to admit that I spam the activate button to force the message on other player's HUDs. And in some cases I start asking if they need help or something. This all depends on the rank of my squad mates obviously.

 

Although, players looking for all the marks and such really grind my gears, as it's really more efficient to do a new mission for standings if you're after that. Having said that, I think the problem lies more in what a map has to offer (especially since the addition of syndicates) and not so much the squad dependent obstacles (such as the friendship doors) that are placed in it.

 

I would however like to see more types of doors, like the ones mentioned earlier, such as doors the lotus hacks for you while you have to fight off incoming waves of mobs, or more hackable doors. Stuff like that. Or simply doors that open really slowly. If only to provide more variety when it comes to these friendship doors, because it does seem like every time my rushing is interrupted it's because of the friendship doors.

 

Conversely, during archwing missions where there are no friendship doors, I always end up waiting indefinitely at extract when I'm playing with a 2 < squad. I've found that the lack of friendship doors doesn't change anything, it only changes the location where I have to wait. In fact, not having the friendship doors in archwing might be even worse compared to regular missions that do have them because I have to wait in 1 location for a very long time compared to 2 or more for a shorter amount of time. So in this case as well, it might not be the doors that are the problem, but how extract timers work after missions have been completed.

 

And lastly, I do think friendship doors fit in with the overall lore of the game. It makes sense that you sometimes can't access something on your own. Although DE might do well to improve the locations of the friendship doors, because it's a little silly to have a safety mechanism that is similar to how nuclear missiles are launched in movies to get you access to just another run off the mill corridor.

tl;dr:

- yeah friendship doors might be annoying to some

- but they're not the issue that should be addressed to alleviate problems relating to (non-)rushing

- and they do fit in with the game (so i disagree that they [always] fail to positively affect game experience)

- although their location might be adjusted to better reflect the degree of "security" they border (and so improve the gaming experience).

I think they should stay, removing them would not be an improvement.

[Zerakh_Ezekhiel]

- and they do fit in with the game (so i disagree that they [always] fail to positively affect game experience)

Here's an example of how they positively affect gameplay:

http://plays.tv/video/54663917eda5ee5bae

If that's not positive feedback for having a squad mate in the right spot at the right time I don't know what is...

[SquirmyBurrito]

A lot of what I say here was included to clarify how I came about my opinion, so if you think it's off-topic then you might as well report/delete the entire thread and not just this post. It's not like I'm talking about your mum's melons.

I used to be an anti-rusher, but then I took a.... zephyr, and am now a rusher myself.

Or rather, I could keep up with rushers before that and would promote teaming up/sticking together by not pressing the button and such but I found that nobody -really- gives a damn (both rushers, non- and anti-) and so I started rushing, with little regard for my squad mates, myself. Everybody pretty much sticks to their play style regardless of the presence of those doors anyway.

 

Honestly... I don't really think the door is that much of a problem. The added waiting time for other players to catch up usually doesn't end up significantly extending my mission time, and during the time they take to catch up I can search for marks. So it's not too bad. And I do respect other players' inability to rush and that they need more time to catch up. In most cases though, I have to admit that I spam the activate button to force the message on other player's HUDs. And in some cases I start asking if they need help or something. This all depends on the rank of my squad mates obviously.

 

Although, players looking for all the marks and such really grind my gears, as it's really more efficient to do a new mission for standings if you're after that. Having said that, I think the problem lies more in what a map has to offer (especially since the addition of syndicates) and not so much the squad dependent obstacles (such as the friendship doors) that are placed in it.

 

I would however like to see more types of doors, like the ones mentioned earlier, such as doors the lotus hacks for you while you have to fight off incoming waves of mobs, or more hackable doors. Stuff like that. Or simply doors that open really slowly. If only to provide more variety when it comes to these friendship doors, because it does seem like every time my rushing is interrupted it's because of the friendship doors.

 

Conversely, during archwing missions where there are no friendship doors, I always end up waiting indefinitely at extract when I'm playing with a 2 < squad. I've found that the lack of friendship doors doesn't change anything, it only changes the location where I have to wait. In fact, not having the friendship doors in archwing might be even worse compared to regular missions that do have them because I have to wait in 1 location for a very long time compared to 2 or more for a shorter amount of time. So in this case as well, it might not be the doors that are the problem, but how extract timers work after missions have been completed.

 

And lastly, I do think friendship doors fit in with the overall lore of the game. It makes sense that you sometimes can't access something on your own. Although DE might do well to improve the locations of the friendship doors, because it's a little silly to have a safety mechanism that is similar to how nuclear missiles are launched in movies to get you access to just another run off the mill corridor.

tl;dr:

- yeah friendship doors might be annoying to some

- but they're not the issue that should be addressed to alleviate problems relating to (non-)rushing

- and they do fit in with the game (so i disagree that they [always] fail to positively affect game experience)

- although their location might be adjusted to better reflect the degree of "security" they border (and so improve the gaming experience).

I think they should stay, removing them would not be an improvement.

 

Why would/should I delete my thread just because one poster is off-topic?

 

The catch up argument has been addressed.

 

Not really going to touch on marks as I don't touch syndicate daily missions.

 

I don't really like the idea of mobile defense doors. 

 

The underlined is a point I brought up. Friendship doors don't really do anything that isn't already done by something else. I'd rather wait in one location rather than having a secondary wait (because its not like the friendship door decreases the total amount of time spent waiting unless you alter your playstyle after reaching it) tossed in for no reason. I'm going to make up all the numbers because I'm too lazy to find out what they actually are:

 

Let's say the extraction timer is 30 seconds after the second player reaches extraction. Without friendship doors the first player would reach extraction and then X seconds afterwards the next fastest player would reach extraction triggering the thirty second countdown. If we assume the last two players are farting about and never reach extraction you end up with a wait time of 30+X seconds.

 

With one friendship door tossed into the mix and assuming that no players alter their playstyle-

The first player reaches a friendship door and waits Y seconds until the second fastest player catches up and activates the console. After ~1.61 seconds the doors open and everyone goes back to doing their thing. The first player reaches extraction and is then forced to wait X seconds for the the second fastest player to get to extraction and trigger the thirty second countdown. You end up with a wait time of 31.61+X+Y seconds.

 

2000 mile race, with a pause at 1000 miles to allow the second car to catch up before they can proceed.

 

100 mph car (car A)

50 mph car (car B)

both reach top speed instantly.

 

Car A reaches the the pause in 10 hours.

Car B reaches the pause in 20 hours.

Car A was forced to wait at the pause for 10 hours until Car B finally caught up.

 

Both cars proceed.

 

Car A finishes the rest of the race in 10 hours and waits at the finish line.

Car B finishes the rest of the race in 20 hours.

Car A was forced to wait at finish line for 10 hours.

 

The Race took 40 hours to end, with a final time of 30 hours for Car A, and a total wait time of 20 hours. Car B had a total time of 40 hours with zero wait time.

 

Remove the pause and Car A completes the race in twenty hours, but spends twenty more hours waiting for the race to end. Either way the wait time is the same. Although the total wait time could be extended if (like in warframe) the pause has an inherent wait time associated with it. Friendship doors take ~1.61 seconds to open, adding that to the total race wait time and the time spent waiting with the pause is more than the time spent waiting without the pause.

 

If any of my math is wrong feel free to correct me, I'm tired and am in no shape to be doing math (even math as simple as this).

 

Here's an example of how they positively affect gameplay:

http://plays.tv/video/54663917eda5ee5bae

If that's not positive feedback for having a squad mate in the right spot at the right time I don't know what is...

 

I watched that video seven times and I still can not see what it is that the friendship door contributed to a positive gameplay experience.

Edited February 4, 2015 by SquirmyBurrito

[DietEbolaCola]

Maybe DE can shed some light on the original intent of the doors.  If the original intent is still valid, then we can discuss if we agree it's still valid.  If the original intent isn't there any longer, then remove them.

 

Personally, I don't care for them.  If a player doesn't want me to rush through a level, they simply need to tell me in chat and I will be happy to help them out with whatever searching they want to do.

 

It's a co-op game with a co-op mechanic in place. People don't seem to understand that. 

I think 1 person should be able to hit left and right panel if they are quick enough when there are 2 or less people in squad, however, to prevent AFK player from shutting down the mission.

Edited February 4, 2015 by DietEbolaCola

[OverlordMcGeek]

I would prefer doors to be removed in general. Thanks to lag and such they are the reasons for several un-openable doors. They are horribly annoying to get around(doors in general).

[Zerakh_Ezekhiel]

Firstly, I do not see the point of your elaborate car example SquirmyBurrito, we have established the friendship doors do not change the waiting, so why bring it up again?

 

And I never said anything about daily syndicate missions either?

 

The points I'm trying to make are at the end of my post, but you haven't adressed them... I'm afraid you're not making a lot of sense with your reply. (I guess it must have been because it was late like you said.)

 

I watched that video seven times and I still can not see what it is that the friendship door contributed to a positive gameplay experience.

Guess you don't know the thrill of having a squad mate in the right place at the right time.. the title and description should've given you a clue...

Anyway, I suggest you start playing another game if a set of doors are such a deal breaker for you.

 

As for the different locations to wait in.. I'd rather wait your extra 1.6 seconds (in my vid it's actually shorter but oh well..) if I can do it in separate locations than completely bore my balls out at 1 location at the end. I play this game because it's fun, not because I need to grind for stuff as much as I can. Even when playing solo I don't mind the added wait time. If I wanted to take control of the entire flow of play on a map I'd be on the design team myself, and not bother with procedurally generated maps at all.

 

Like I said based on my experiences, removing friendship doors does not improve gameplay, and it actually decreases gameplay variety. So I think it's better if they stay.

Edited February 4, 2015 by Zerakh_Ezekhiel

[SquirmyBurrito]

It's a co-op game with a co-op mechanic in place. People don't seem to understand that. 

I think 1 person should be able to hit left and right panel if they are quick enough when there are 2 or less people in squad, however, to prevent AFK player from shutting down the mission.

 

It is a terribly lackluster co-op mechanic. 

 

Firstly, I do not see the point of your elaborate car example SquirmyBurrito, we have established the friendship doors do not change the waiting, so why bring it up again?

 

And I never said anything about daily syndicate missions either?

 

The points I'm trying to make are at the end of my post, but you haven't adressed them... I'm afraid you're not making a lot of sense with your reply. (I guess it must have been because it was late like you said.)

 

Guess you don't know the thrill of having a squad mate in the right place at the right time.. the title and description should've given you a clue...

Anyway, I suggest you start playing another game if a set of doors are such a deal breaker for you.

 

As for the different locations to wait in.. I'd rather wait your extra 1.6 seconds (in my vid it's actually shorter but oh well..) if I can do it in separate locations than completely bore my balls out at 1 location at the end. I play this game because it's fun, not because I need to grind for stuff as much as I can. Even when playing solo I don't mind the added wait time. If I wanted to take control of the entire flow of play on a map I'd be on the design team myself, and not bother with procedurally generated maps at all.

 

Like I said based on my experiences, removing friendship doors does not improve gameplay, and it actually decreases gameplay variety. So I think it's better if they stay.

 

If you were to re-read my example in full you'd realize that the purpose of my example was to show that the doors do nothing positive for the total wait and can actually increase the total time spent waiting. To declare that it doesn't change the waiting at all is fallacious. 

 

You kept referring to players searching for "marks", I had no idea what exactly you were referring to so I just guessed.

 

 I didn't address your TL;DR because by that point I had already addressed everything you said that wasn't just you disagreeing.

 

If I want to coordinate with my squad, I can do so without needing the doors. Why would I go play a different game if I can stay here and potentially improve this one? And I don't play this game all that much anymore. I burned out on it months ago and have stayed with it out of sheer determination.

 

I recommend timing the door opening in-game rather then going by a video. I'd rather wait in one location only. And I don't see how "it's not fun" is relevant unless you're trying to say that you find waiting at the doors fun. You don't mind it, I do.

 

I disagree with your claim that it (their removal) wouldn't improve gameplay for the reasons I have already stated numerous times. And if the goal is variety, removing them and adding something positive would be much better. As it stands the 'variety' they add to gameplay is how long you (the first person) are forced to wait at the doors or how many times you get to see the 'a player needs help blahblahblah' message pop up on your screen. I think it is better that if they're removed so that something worthwhile can take their place rather than keeping them in as they are.

Edited February 5, 2015 by SquirmyBurrito

[Zerakh_Ezekhiel]

And I don't play this game all that much anymore. I burned out on it months ago....

This is what I expected from your first response to my post. I really suggest you look for some other game to play, because your lack of willingness to appreciate other people's positive experience of the game (and the friendship doors in particular) is glaringly obvious.

As for the actual content of your argumentation:

(your post in italics)

- It is a terribly lackluster co-op mechanic.

This is a judgement that only gets addressed indirectly towards the end of your last post, and rather poorly at that. Why is it lackluster? What better options are there?

- If you were to re-read my example in full you'd realize that the purpose of my example was to show that the doors do nothing positive for the total wait and can actually increase the total time spent waiting.

We have already established that a long time ago. I guess I should've made it clearer that I don't think they significantly increase my playing time.

- To declare that it doesn't change the waiting at all is fallacious.

You are right, it does change the total waiting time, a little bit. It's the same order of magnitude for when you fall into a pit and respawn for example. Compared to getting stuck under a ledge, such as some pipes on grineer asteroids, it's actually less than waiting for a slow friendship door to open after it's been activated. So assuming you're a perfect player who -never- falls or makes a bad jump or gets stuck under a fence or a ledge, then you would be right, the friendship door adds 1.6s or less to your total mission time if they are present. However, since none of us are perfect players, the added waiting time caused by friendship doors is hardly noticeable. It pales in comparison to time lost for our lack of skill while doing missions, to name a source.

- You kept referring to players searching for "marks", I had no idea what exactly you were referring to so I just guessed.

Since the addition of syndicates, the hidden standings boosters are reason for players to spend lengthy amounts of time searching every nook and cranny for them (especially since the rare exalted ones give 5000 standings), which dramatically increases mission time, both while waiting before a friendship door and at extract.

 

In light of this I claimed that actually doing missions without looking for them gives at least the same amount of standings for the same amount of time spent in missions, even considering the 5k standing boosters which don't appear in every mission. I have no idea if my claim is actually true, but I suspect it is, because the high level missions usually net me a couple grand worth of standings when I rush them while on average I only get an additional couple hundreds worth of standings if I also look for all the marks while tripling or quadrupling my mission time in the process.

- I didn't address your TL;DR because by that point I had already addressed everything you said that wasn't just you disagreeing.

Well, clearly you didn't address everything I said... And you still haven't addressed them. And so I must conclude that you still haven't understood the points I'm trying to make.

- If I want to coordinate with my squad, I can do so without needing the doors.

The doors are but an extra situation that need some degree of team coordination, they are not -the only- means to motivate team coordination. The doors are an obstacle, so they are inherently not -needed-, that's what they do, they hamper your progress, that's their whole purpose. In this case they hamper you in a way that needs team coordination to alleviate. It's just that you don't particularly -like- the solution to conquer the obstacle.

- I recommend timing the door opening in-game rather then going by a video.

Let's just assume the video is real time, just for the heck of it. Even if you can't figure that out by simply watching it, then you have to admit that the doors open a lot quicker than 1.6s. However, it is true that some friendship doors, those in corpus missions for example, open rather slowly.

Video included for reference: http://plays.tv/video/54663917eda5ee5bae

- I'd rather wait in one location only. And I don't see how "it's not fun" is relevant unless you're trying to say that you find waiting at the doors fun. You don't mind it, I do.

Personal preference is relevant, because the whole idea that the doors are annoying is based on personal preference. So any argument involving personal preference should be taken into account. And this includes one's preferred style of playing (rushing or non-rushing) which is affected by these doors. And in this case my personal preference that I rather wait at different locations compared to waiting for a long time at 1 location. Ironically, this whole thread is based on your personal preference concerning those doors. So by your logic, your OP is not relevant.

 

Let me make this really clear, like you, I don't like waiting, however, unlike you, I rather wait multiple times for shorter amounts of time in different locations rather than wait once for a very long amount of time. From my experience, the difference of the total amount of time spent waiting in a mission with friendship doors compared to a mission without is negligible. Especially since there's more opportunity for me to loot stuff when friendship doors are present. It also arguably helps keep your team mates alive because it's easier to rush back from somewhere halfway to revive them if they're in trouble compared to when you're at the very end.

- I disagree with your claim that it (their removal) wouldn't improve gameplay for the reasons I have already stated numerous times.

This is not an argument, if you disagree you have to put in the effort to back it up, again, and not say something like "oh i said it somewhere before, go look it up".

 

Furthermore, I have already shown you, through the vid for example, how they can positively impact game play. It's just that you disagree that it's a positive impact. This mostly tells me you either don't enjoy team play, or you don't think the necessity of another squad member to access a new area is an example of positive game play. The only thing I can say to this is that you should only play solo from now on. Or even better, don't bother with this game at all.

- And if the goal is variety, removing them and adding something positive would be much better.

Now this, finally, is something worth noting, however, I would like to see you say what that "something" is and why that "something" is better. (And don't say you said this before somewhere.) Anyway, to help you out a bit, one of the last posts mentioned how a single person should be able to open the door if they can activate both consoles fast enough. I think this is a decent solution to circumvent the necessity of another squad mate, but provide some sort of challenge at the same time.

- As it stands the 'variety' they add to gameplay is how long you (the first person) are forced to wait at the doors or how many times you get to see the 'a player needs help blahblahblah' message pop up on your screen.

This is not entirely correct, the added variety here is that you need a certain degree of teamwork to get past an obstacle, provided you're not playing solo. In the latter case the added variety is indeed a forced amount of waiting, which can be 1.6s as you say, or shorter, depending on the type of friendship door.

- I think it is better that if they're removed so that something worthwhile can take their place rather than keeping them in as they are.

I'm assuming you're saying you want them to be replaced? Because their removal does not logically lead to a replacement, nor does their replacement logically lead to "something worthwhile". And from my point of view, simply removing them actually decreases the quality of the game, as I've tried to make clear through my example of archwing versus regular play. Because compared to regular play, archwing forces me to wait at extract for a very long time, which I enjoy less than waiting at different locations, regardless of total mission time.Especially since there's not much to do but wait in archwing, compared to regular missions (no containers to loot, no marks to look for).

However, I do understand that you don't think waiting in different locations for a roughly similar total amount of time is better. Even if this means you get to loot less efficiently etc, and that the scenery provides less variety, and that you will lose the possible thrill of having a squad mate help you open the door at the exact required moment, and be of less use to your squad in general.

Edited February 5, 2015 by Zerakh_Ezekhiel

[Zerakh_Ezekhiel]

So in summary.

Presence of friendship doors:

Con:

- Adds 1.6s of mission time at most per door (assuming you're so skilled it becomes a significant time increase on your mission time).

- Breaks your flow/rush (assuming you don't accept these doors being part of the challenge of completing a mission).

Pro:
- Provides a clear regrouping location before an objective.
- Breaks up overall time spent waiting on other players into different chunks of smaller time (assuming you don't like to wait and don't go AFK).

- Increases the amount of waiting locations, and so provides more opportunity to loot while waiting as average distance to loot decreases (assuming you like loot).
- Different waiting locations also means different scenery (assuming variety of scenery is desirable).

- Decreases the average distance to the other players in case they need help (assuming altruism is a positive trait).

- Opening the door with a squad mate is a form of positive game play feedback (assuming team play is enjoyable).

- Helps other squad members keep up (assuming rushers are perceived as an annoyance for those who can't keep up).

- Helps to regulate the flow of mobs (i'm actually not too sure about this one, but somebody mentioned it).

Edited February 5, 2015 by Zerakh_Ezekhiel