Why Are Alliances Allowed To Lie About Their Rewards For Supporters?

[-GM-Cha_Dude-]

There was a battle pay of 100k for supporting an alliance this morning, so I helped them out. I won the mission, but I got nothing for it... I'm pretty sure this has been going on since the beginning of relays. 

[WingedCrusade]

They quickly change out their credit values because they use this tactic to get credits out of the clan vault to give to their members.

[AXCrusnik]

They quickly change out their credit values because they use this tactic to get credits out of the clan vault to give to their members.

I always wondered what clans/alliances would do with all the resources in the vault (if their dojos are complete, which they likely are), considering there is no way to distribute them among their members (that I know of... other than this), or otherwise use them outside of further dojo/rail funding.

 

If we could redistribute the resources in the vault... leaders might actually be able to distribute resources to members to create specter regiments... if their blueprints weren't such a chore to collect (I don't play DS Conflicts so I can't say.. but do people even use these? Their build cost seems gigantic.)

Edited January 22, 2015 by AXCrusnik

[-GM-Cha_Dude-]

Seems like they could be exploiting their players to me.

Warlord: "Hey everyone, contribute to the clan vault"

Then they go and use the rail conflict to distribute the credits to whomever they want to. 

[-FV-Metheria]

But do people even use these? Their build cost seems gigantic.)

Admit even with the gracious amounts of 0's, ICE has been permanently burned into your skull. It can gain recruits, clans under your alliance, and generally prove your dominance.

[Rydian]

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/287499-warframe-common-problems-and-questions/

 

Q: I ran a conflict mission but at the end got no battle pay, why are they allowed to bait like that?
A: Once a clan/alliance sets battle pay, they cannot change it until it runs out or a couple of hours have passed.  What's actually happening is that other people are completing their runs faster than you are, and so are claiming the reward.  By the time you finish there's nothing left in the credit pool to pay you because payment is done when you finish the mission, not when you start.  Pay attention to how much reserve is left before you take a mission to avoid losing out.

 

Divide their reserve amount by the battle pay to see the number of mission completions that they can pay out, then decide if you think you can beat a mission before that many pass.

[Voaster]

It is also likely that the end-mission rewards screen is bugged. I know alot of people report blank screens and/or having to alt+f4 out of warframe after the mission complete. They also cant tell if they got paid or not unless they go to the market and made a point to see how much credits they had before the mission.

 

or the tickets simply ran out before you finished the mission(alliance cant change the battlepay until the existing tickets have been exhausted)

[UnknownGunneryChief]

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/287499-warframe-common-problems-and-questions/

 

 

 

 

Divide their reserve amount by the battle pay to see the number of mission completions that they can pay out, then decide if you think you can beat a mission before that many pass.

Or the fact that several squads of the same alliance that holds the rail get the core to like 5%, then start camping the spawnpoint and tell the tactician they're ready. When all squads are ready, the tactician sets up the agreed amount of credits and all squads finish their games asap and this way wash money from the vault to their own accounts.

[Letter13]

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/287499-warframe-common-problems-and-questions/

 

Quote

Q: I ran a conflict mission but at the end got no battle pay, why are they allowed to bait like that?

A: Once a clan/alliance sets battle pay, they cannot change it until it runs out or a couple of hours have passed.  What's actually happening is that other people are completing their runs faster than you are, and so are claiming the reward.  By the time you finish there's nothing left in the credit pool to pay you because payment is done when you finish the mission, not when you start.  Pay attention to how much reserve is left before you take a mission to avoid losing out.

 

 

Divide their reserve amount by the battle pay to see the number of mission completions that they can pay out, then decide if you think you can beat a mission before that many pass.

This.

 

To reiterate once again, for the dozenth or so time, alliances literally can't lie about their battle pay. They set it, they set the reserve, and that's it. They cannot change it until it runs out and the reserve hits 0.

 

Check the reserve before you go into one of the missions. Make sure it's high. If it's low, you'll need to be very quick.

[-GM-Cha_Dude-]

It is also likely that the end-mission rewards screen is bugged. I know alot of people report blank screens and/or having to alt+f4 out of warframe after the mission complete. They also cant tell if they got paid or not unless they go to the market and made a point to see how much credits they had before the mission.

 

or the tickets simply ran out before you finished the mission(alliance cant change the battlepay until the existing tickets have been exhausted)

I will say that there was about 44 million in the reserve. They should not have run out.

[-FV-Metheria]

I will say that there was about 44 million in the reserve. They should not have run out.

You underestimate the amount of Corpus amoung us.

[Voaster]

I will say that there was about 44 million in the reserve. They should not have run out.

well if there was credits in the reserve when you went in, and credits in the reserve when you came out, and you are SURE that you didnt get paid(I dont trust the end-mission rewards screen), then Im sorry to say that sounds like a problem on DE's side, not the alliance's.

[Rydian]

Which was it, and can you check your EE.log to see when you did the mission and compare it to the battle pay graph on Deathsnacks?

 

They like to set pay for just a handful of mission and then keep resetting it once it empties nowadays, so it's possible to get caught in the gap.

[-GM-Cha_Dude-]

I definitely didn't get paid. This post wasn't really about me saying, I want the credits, but more about inciting a change into the way the system works. Neither I nor anyone else should have to go into a mission like this thinking we're going to get the rewards. Our time is precious and we can't have it back, don't waste it.

Here's a shot from the EE:
 

2727.038 Sys [info]: Display Progress: DarkSectors

2727.038 Net [info]: LotusSectorGameRules - changing pvp state from PVP_MATCH_STARTED to PVP_MATCH_ENDED

2727.042 Sys [Error]: Keyword || not found in /Lotus/Language/SectorWars/MissionObjectiveSucceeded (can't replace with )

2727.042 Sys [Error]: Keyword || not found in /Lotus/Language/SectorWars/CoreDestroyed (can't replace with )

2735.072 Script [info]: Mission Succeeded

2735.072 Script [info]: EndOfMatch.lua: GiveMissionRewards. success=true

2735.072 Script [info]: Connected: true

2735.072 Script [info]: extractionTrigger is nil! Assuming that all players are touching by default.

2735.073 Script [info]: -GM-Cha_Dude- - IsInTrigger=true

2735.073 Script [info]: adding collected store items

2735.073 Script [info]: adding collected misc items

2735.073 Script [info]: [EndOfMatch.lua GetRewardCreditsToShow] On DB Update calculation

2735.073 Script [info]: [EndOfMatch.lua GetRewardCreditsToShow] Mission Complete Bonus: 0

2735.073 Script [info]: [EndOfMatch.lua GetRewardCreditsToShow] Credit Tax: 0

2735.073 Script [info]: [EndOfMatch.lua GetRewardCreditsToShow] Battle Pay: 0

[.Talia.]

First come first served... If you finish the mission before the reserve runs out, you receive the Battle Pay.

[-GM-Cha_Dude-]

First come first served... If you finish the mission before the reserve runs out, you receive the Battle Pay.

 

I agree that's the current state that the system is in, but I think it should be changed. Only allow people to play the mission if they can actually be payed. It's not that big of a change either. 

[Rydian]

Which mission, and do you know around which time?

[-GM-Cha_Dude-]

It was one of the missions on Sedna shortly before noon est

[Rydian]

Ah yes, this fight again.

http://deathsnacks.com/wf/bl_history.html#5348d2b706c56f583e7b246a_1421929062

 

They pay, a few hundred people run it due to the credits and it runs out, then they set up enough payment for another few hundred.  Looks like they keep setting up more payment as they saw it run out quicker, raising the total offered each time.  At one point near the end they put up 50 million credits in reserve and then 75 million after that)...

 

But the payments still only lasted about 34 minutes at a time on average, with around 4 minutes of downtime for them to see it run dry and set up more battlepay (except for one period where they were sitting with no battle pay for 36 minutes).  So unless your mission lasted into those 36 minutes, you must have  been unlucky and finished your mission during one of those breaks.

 

tl;dr: They kept running out of pay because so many people were running the missions, the system sucks.

[-GM-Cha_Dude-]

Ah yes, this fight again.

http://deathsnacks.com/wf/bl_history.html#5348d2b706c56f583e7b246a_1421929062

 

They pay, a few hundred people run it due to the credits and it runs out, then they set up enough payment for another few hundred.  Looks like they keep setting up more payment as they saw it run out quicker, raising the total offered each time.  At one point near the end they put up 50 million credits in reserve and then 75 million after that)...

 

But the payments still only lasted about 34 minutes at a time on average, with around 4 minutes of downtime for them to see it run dry and set up more battlepay (except for one period where they were sitting with no battle pay for 36 minutes).  So unless your mission lasted into those 36 minutes, you must have  been unlucky and finished your mission during one of those breaks.

 

tl;dr: They kept running out of pay because so many people were running the missions, the system sucks.

 

Thanks for looking into it for me, Rydian. I really wish they could just change the system to not allow people into the mission if there is a possibility of getting no rewards. 

[Rydian]

The first though that comes to mind is "reserve the pay when the mission starts" but then a rival clan could just start a bunch of missions and make no progress, holding all that reserved battle pay so legit players get none.

 

The system is just... too exploitable all-around.

[-InV-Skitz0]

Many Tacticians have asked for a feature that would allow us to add the next set of BP before the current BP runs out. With this it would be very easy for any Tactician to ensure everyone possible gets payed.

[kash._.]

I think DE can fix this very easily by holding onto the credits once the players helps an alliance. Since sometimes the conflict is over and you do not receive any credits, the reserve is depleted or the credits were changed.