Nerfing Nova For The Sake Of Challenging Missions.

[Im_All_In]

Give her a break will ya,she basically have no defensive skill(dont even try argue me about antimater absorb..Bcuz u need the range and range cost nova turned ,speed nov in a T4 surv?) She's an offensive ,so pls,staph this madness

[Llyssa]

I'm kind of wondering what the "good points" drew mentioned were.... it's mostly hyperbole about a frame that's pretty mediocre on high-end content being railed against for imaginary BS.

 

Thinking of the other thread mentioned recently, I wonder if the angry posters wouldn't be able to get more challenge by hosting games rather than joining them, and are wrongfully blaming nova for the latency issues.

[Smejky]

Sorry, but I feel I could complain in the same way as you do about nova´s mprime, that saryn/excal/mirage ult clear xy map and "I don´t have anything to shoot at."

But then there are those moments when I am exping fresh warframe and everyone is getting rolled over by roller and dragged around by scorpions and I think to myself "Ugh wish there was any Saryn/excal/nova etc. "  --- It is less fun for you running around with literaly no enemies, or at least slowed enemies?

 

I would say that Nova is fine as it is, it excels in what she does. By nerfing her we could nerf for example: loki´s invisibility to not be invisible for everyone, radial disarm to be timed, rhino´s skin also timed, vauban´ s vortex could suck only some enemies etc. I would rather wanted De staff to focus on something else than Nova ;)

[t045ter]

Honestly I think Nova is maybe a little overpowered still, however the change is the syndicates & void trader!

 

I play Nova with max primed continuity & max primed flow add in the Synoid Gammacor throwing out energy for kills, and the new larger restore packs and this is what I believe is causing the appearance of her being very over powered, because you can spam her ultimate when maxed.

 

The problem is that energy is now to easily available in game, especially with the high damage frames . If you nerf nova next it will be Saryn or Messa or pretty much any high damage cc warframe.

 

Possible solutions, stop the syndicate weapons giving reward for warframe kills, only your pistol kills should count. Have a limit to the number of (energy)Restores you can carry (IE less than 200, yeah I know it is a limit :). Limit the number of primed mods you can use.

 

Not that I like any of those suggestions, however nerfing warframes is not the answer.

[Second_Measure]

She just brings a lot of utility in one single ability of her set.

 

With AMD she can :

 

- Slow down enemies to a crawl (or speed them up, if you are gimmik-y) regarding movement and attack speed

- Prime them for +200% extra damage received

- Cause them to explode upon kill, possibly starting a chain reaction to nearby enemies and wiping a whole squad with this

 

That's so much utility on a single ultimate compared to some frames have in their whole ability set.

[Azawarau]

My point was that Nova was just as disadvantaged against the nullifiers as any other frame.

 

But no, she's by far not the least disadvantaged against them, The majority of frames have defensive abilities (which nova doesn't have) that are less disadvantaged simply because they can protect themselves from being shot by (temporarily) invulnerable enemies long enough to kill their shields or get close enough for melee while Nova is left open and vulnerable (Iron Skin, Snow Globe, Turbulence, Eclipse, Shatter Shield, Rift Walk, Blessing and so on and so forth).

Nova has a much lower survivability than most frames, and she's supposed to be that way since her abilities trade that off for offense, that doesn't make her OP in my eyes.

 

And abilities aside, Nova also has the second lowest shield capacity (only Valkyr has less, but Valkyr has 600 armor) , and pretty insignificant armor. She shares those stats with five other frames, all of which have ways of protecting themselves from fire, Nova doesn't.

She has more of an advantage than most frames against them because of her large range

 

Even if nullifiers are near they cant possibly stop the greater portion of Novas debuff

 

Picking out nullifiers from a crows of slow moving enemies isnt difficult

 

Also Nova primes shields are 25 points higher at base than novas. Dont forget this

 

Give her a break will ya,she basically have no defensive skill(dont even try argue me about antimater absorb..Bcuz u need the range and range cost nova turned ,speed nov in a T4 surv?) She's an offensive ,so pls,staph this madness

M prime is her defense skill

 

Null star should be as well but its sub par as is

 

Honestly I think Nova is maybe a little overpowered still, however the change is the syndicates & void trader!

 

I play Nova with max primed continuity & max primed flow add in the Synoid Gammacor throwing out energy for kills, and the new larger restore packs and this is what I believe is causing the appearance of her being very over powered, because you can spam her ultimate when maxed.

 

The problem is that energy is now to easily available in game, especially with the high damage frames . If you nerf nova next it will be Saryn or Messa or pretty much any high damage cc warframe.

 

Possible solutions, stop the syndicate weapons giving reward for warframe kills, only your pistol kills should count. Have a limit to the number of (energy)Restores you can carry (IE less than 200, yeah I know it is a limit :). Limit the number of primed mods you can use.

 

Not that I like any of those suggestions, however nerfing warframes is not the answer.

I play a max range max power Nova with a slightly lower than base explosion radius and there is no issue collecting energy for me

 

With the amount of enemies hit by 1 M prime i can cover my needs and more

 

In fact its so efficient that i only use one M prime per wave in T 4 defense and capture nearly every enemy with it

[-SLX-J3tAc3]

I don't need crutches to devastate massive armies with my warframe.  Live up to the challenge and get good.  I'm a Tenno.  You just want a free ride. 

Another asinine post: "GIT GUD!"

Whenever I see this, this is another word for saying, "I have nothing useful to say except to see me talk!"

[havikryan]

and then after she is nerfed ANOTHER frame is the ''new'' nova and gets nerfed as well, then another one and another one ect ect

[WhiteCopain]

I really don't like the arguments people are making of "Just don't bring her." Nobody is going to cripple themselves willingly and give themselves less rewards, that's stupid, the whole reason people play Nova is because it lets them get vastly farther without even half the work it would normally take to get that far. You can't just not bring something that can easily be considered the best ult in the entire game do to the damage and utility it brings.

 

Yeah, you could do T4 def wave 600 with a level 1 Lato, but why would you? That's not even a challenge, it's just boring.

 

I'd honestly like a lot of frames to get some nerfs or enemies to get buffs. Nulifiers were a good addition, they added some thought to fight, but barely any, all you have to do is shoot them or go in the bubble and shoot them and people whine like they're the plague and "oh my god they're so broken this is ridiculous!" Oh no, thought! I can't press 4!

 

It is absurd to me how the current "best" way to play the game is to go into missions with people and just spam 4. Want to rep farm? Excal needs to spam his ult, want to go into T4 Def and have an absurdly easy time? Limbo and Mesa with their ults, the pod can't get hurt and Mesa can deal with any non nulfier by one shotting them the moment they enter the room until like wave 30 (when most pubs end there or earlier). People want zero difficulty. I honestly expect the raid boss that's coming to be vulnerable to every ult in the game and for people to do S#&$ like bring 7 Sayrn's and a Nova to instantly kill it because DE really doesn't get the power that we as players have. If they actually make a boss people actually fail at without learning them and building good teams, you could color me surprised, but given we have full heals with super high damage resist, slowing everything to a quarter of it's speed while taking double damage, and moves that are able to pull out absurd amounts of damage without even thinking... I can't see them making anything interesting.

 

They certainly haven't so far, the "Endgame" that is T4 Void that was supposed to solve the whole "boring waves" issue just lead to stronger builds and now we're back to people having a laughably easy time the first half hour you're there.

Edited January 27, 2015 by WhiteCopain

[007-Creed]

When nova's molecular prime was announced as beeing nerfed soon i was a bit worried what kind of changes it would be, until i tried it right after the update. Well what was supposed to be a nerf turned out as a buff: bigger range and massive slow.

 

I agree with OP, Azawaraw and some other people on nerfing Nova. The only problem i see on her is the huge ridiculous amount of slow, 75% too much, enemies barely move on massive range.

I see many people saying she is glass cannon and dies easy, but not when u keep your MP always active with damage boost and the use of another massive damage ability like antimater drop.

 

So imo only needed change is on her slow, change the cap or make enemies lose the slow effect over time (i read it somewhere)

[ThePresident777]

The OP's claims:

1)  Too strong for end game content.

2)  Playing past wave 50 of defense shouldn't be as easy as the first few waves.

3)  Challenge

4)  Competition.

5)  30%-75% slow is exaggerating.

6)  CC + 2x damage is extreme.

7)  Anti-matter drop to obliterate groups of enemies.

 

1)  Too strong for end game content.:

+

2)  Playing past wave 50 of defense shouldn't be as easy as the first few waves.:

 

End game is not defined.  The entire first claim is totally not supported at all, not an ounce of it.  The first claim can be said about anything to the point that level zero becomes end game content because the nerf mentality points downward with no limit at all.  Yet, no one calling for nerfs can define end game.  It's funny that Warframe has end game when nerfs are being called for, otherwise it doesn't.  Or there is, "high waves are not end game" when it suits nerfs.  So, this claim is meaningless.
 

The second claim is basically the same as the first claim.  Wave 50 is arbitrarily chosen.  It spirals downward without limit which makes it meaningless.  It's obviously false that later waves are as easy as early waves.  It's also moot in Warframe because scaling enemies and seeing how far you can go is part of the plan.  There is no concept of limit here in Warframe.  If players can make it to level 9000, good for them, no harm done:    http://youtu.be/L5bAliiJLNs?t=54m52s.

 

3)  Challenge:

 

The OP mentions challenge yet doesn't suggest any.  Challenge is expected to appear because nerfs.  It's a very inactive point of view.  Challenges have to be made.  It requires action to create challenging actions to act against, not just tweaking numbers in a file.

 

And, Warframe has long had active intentions for challenge:  http://youtu.be/yiD1-YxSuM8?t=4m39s.  The passive file tweaking approach to challenge is misplaced in Warframe and has been for a long time, for nearly 2 years already.

 

4)  Competition:

 

It's a coop game.

 

5)  30%-75% slow is exaggerating.:

+

6)  CC + 2x damage is extreme.:

 

Warframe is extreme.  4 Tenno Devastate Massive Armies is extreme and it's the Core of Warframe.  For anyone not familiar with the reference:

 

 

Warframe: Developer Q&A , Answer to Question 4:

The core is the 4 guys against a massive army.  And, generally speaking, they are devastating. The core is not something like in Gears of War where the one on one is something a bit more balanced.  One Space Ninja against a whole ship of Grineer is the idea.  But, that needs to be balanced by boss battles, and by like desperate scenarios.  But, generally speaking, the whole idea of it, even an old ninja (right?) is that the untrained militia get devastated by a single one.

 

Also, Boss Battles and Desperate Scenarios answers the challenge issue.  There is more to Warframe besides The Core.

 

5)  Anti-matter drop to obliterate groups of enemies.:

 

But, obliterating groups of enemies is the reason why OP wants to nerf Mprime.  Which, undercuts the claims for nerfing Mprime.

 

 

P.S.  Mprime was not buffed.  It was nerfed.  The explosion radius was nerfed massively and given damage scaling in it's tiny radius.  And, it hit maximum range sloooowwwwly.  The immediacy was taken out of it.  That's a nerf.  Nullifiers are even more nerf.

Edited January 27, 2015 by ThePresident777

[Second_Measure]

They can cut the 2x damage on debuffed targets if I care.

 

The speed-debuff thing gives it a interesting spin for more creative builds but could use a lower cap on the slow (50% or so).

The chain explosion is fine aswell to a degree.

[007-Creed]

P.S.  Mprime was not buffed.  It was nerfed.  The explosion radius was nerfed massively and given damage scaling in it's tiny radius.  And, it hit maximum range sloooowwwwly.  The immediacy was taken out of it.  That's a nerf.  Nullifiers are even more nerf.

 

The explosion range nerf wasnt big deal. Your MP alone isnt going chain kill high lvl enemies (end game) anyways without use of antimater, but the 75% slow effect persist with no changes, so im sry to say but was a buff, dont compare previous slow with 75% cap atm. The slowly power growth is indeed a nerf that can be easily overcome.

[Soul.Fire]

 

If you want a good argument you have to show how and why nova isnt overpowered

 

I am now amused XD This is definitely an extremely good reason to say how and why Nova is not overpowered.

[Soul.Fire]

Honestly I think Nova is maybe a little overpowered still, however the change is the syndicates & void trader!

 

I play Nova with max primed continuity & max primed flow add in the Synoid Gammacor throwing out energy for kills, and the new larger restore packs and this is what I believe is causing the appearance of her being very over powered, because you can spam her ultimate when maxed.

 

The problem is that energy is now to easily available in game, especially with the high damage frames . If you nerf nova next it will be Saryn or Messa or pretty much any high damage cc warframe.

 

Possible solutions, stop the syndicate weapons giving reward for warframe kills, only your pistol kills should count. Have a limit to the number of (energy)Restores you can carry (IE less than 200, yeah I know it is a limit :). Limit the number of primed mods you can use.

 

Not that I like any of those suggestions, however nerfing warframes is not the answer.

I actually know an easy way to fix that problem of her ult being 'too available,' people could just play like I do and not use the energy restores. It's all up to player preference really, just a few people seem to think that those who actually like and enjoy Nova should get penalized for it.

Edited January 27, 2015 by Soul.Fire

[vaugahn]

points downward with no limit at all

 

False. People like to claim this, but it is an inherently fallacious argument. 

 

Warframe is extreme.  4 Tenno Devastate Massive Armies is extreme and it's the Core of Warframe.  For anyone not familiar with the reference:

 

I'm just going to address this whole point at once, since you like to spam it.

 

First and foremost, the core of the game can change. Not saying it has, but it can.

 

But now, here's where things get good: the reason why four tenno devastate a massive army is not because they can press a button and then lol at the whole army. You argue for balance to go away, to be able to roflstomp everything and anything because of this quote. But you've misrepresented and misinterpreted this quote. 

[Cpl_Facehugger]

I'm really not pleased by anyone saying that Nova makes wave 50 feel like wave 5. Because that's absolute nonsense. Nova, like most other frames, falls off hard at wave 40. Literally all she has is the slow and damage buff at that point, and it's worse because she doesn't even have any actual hard CC so even with 75% slow (which takes time to propagate to enemies in range at that) it's still completely possible to be oneshot.

 

And then there's nullifiers. Just nullifiers.

[Synvul]

I only read the last couple of pages. Could not stop laughing. When I join a match and a minute later the Excalibur or Saryn is already at the extraction then talking about OP is kinda moot to me. I don't have Nova and yet never hate one being on my squad but there are a few others that I really dislike seeing. Does that mean they are OP and need to be nerfed because they ruin my fun?

[kvestwara]

Nova's molecular prime need nerf\change: remove negative effect.

[Soul.Fire]

I'm really not pleased by anyone saying that Nova makes wave 50 feel like wave 5. Because that's absolute nonsense. Nova, like most other frames, falls off hard at wave 40. Literally all she has is the slow and damage buff at that point, and it's worse because she doesn't even have any actual hard CC so even with 75% slow (which takes time to propagate to enemies in range at that) it's still completely possible to be oneshot.

 

And then there's nullifiers. Just nullifiers.

Oh it's better, someone seemed to think that Nova doesn't suffer at all even when nullifiers make any and all of her powers less than useless by covering the entire map and protecting all enemies with their filth so that even her massive range won't help you. Or the ones who insist she isn't a glass cannon because she has better shields than Valkyr. It's actually pretty amazing and really disappointing/insulting how much hate I'm seeing for Nova in the forums and yet the minute you join a PUB game the first question is always, "Who has a power Nova? We need the prime."

[RealPandemonium]

Oh it's better, someone seemed to think that Nova doesn't suffer at all even when nullifiers make any and all of her powers less than useless by covering the entire map and protecting all enemies with their filth so that even her massive range won't help you. Or the ones who insist she isn't a glass cannon because she has better shields than Valkyr. It's actually pretty amazing and really disappointing/insulting how much hate I'm seeing for Nova in the forums and yet the minute you join a PUB game the first question is always, "Who has a power Nova? We need the prime."

Outside of Nullifiers 75% slow is gg.  Most enemies can't even turn fast enough to hit you, and when they do their dps is reduced by 75%.  The 100% damage bonus is just gravy.  You have to be asleep to lose in that scenario.

[ThePresident777]

Enemy DPS may be reduced by 75% but their per shot damage is not.  And, we're not talking about a few enemy here, we're talking about a Massive Army that we're expected to Devastate.  That's a lot of big bullets that can one shot.  It's perfectly legit game play.  It's like nothing you will find in Gears of War.  And I think we should understand by now that Warframe is not Gears of War.  It's not Dark Souls.

 

And if the core of a game can change then that game is low quality, like coffee turning to &!$$, or round tires becoming square.

Edited January 27, 2015 by ThePresident777

[Star]

Cut this challenge thing!...

 

Fast Nova is only used against infested so the defense goes faster. The infested even if faster can't actually hurt the tenno. So don't tell me about challenge with fast Nova.

Only used against infested? Maybe that is how you do it, but I often run speed nova on more than just infested. Anything and everything, because its FUN and more challenging sometimes. "Only used on infested" is a personal choice, not a fact.

[Soul.Fire]

Outside of Nullifiers 75% slow is gg.  Most enemies can't even turn fast enough to hit you, and when they do their dps is reduced by 75%.  The 100% damage bonus is just gravy.  You have to be asleep to lose in that scenario.

Yeah, tell that to my Nova after she gets hit by a few "disadvantaged" bombards, just one has me bleeding out 90% of the time, the slow ability does absolutely nothing to protect me. Your argument doesn't hold up, and as for Nova not being a glass cannon, she is the most glass cannon next to Mesa, and even Mesa has much better defensive capabilities than Nova. The trade-off would have to be pretty damned good in order for me to accept it without a fuss, and even then I think it would piss my husband off, because he's currently happy with my Nova just the way she is. Not too powerful, but not too useless either. I play her purely support, only go offense when I have to, and the kind of nerf that this thread seems to be geared toward would make her a frame no one wants to see. I like Nova, if I have to completely scrap the build I like for her the way I had to do with Ember after the fail she became with the most recent update I don't know how long I'll keep playing. It isn't fair to the people who enjoy her to just nerf her to cater to a few people who have a personal beef. I don't like Mesa's ult, it's much, much more abused that Nova's, and don't get me started on Limbo, but I still think it would be the worst thing they could do to nerf the powers. I'm willing to defend frames who I think are too much abused, it's not fair for my main to get a nerf just because someone thinks she does what she does a little too well to suit them.

[RealPandemonium]

Yeah, tell that to my Nova after she gets hit by a few "disadvantaged" bombards, just one has me bleeding out 90% of the time, the slow ability does absolutely nothing to protect me. 

Corrupted bombards are unbalanced compared to their regular counterpart.  This is itself a symptom of overpowered options being available: DE releases cheesy enemies but because people tend to turn off gameplay with exploitable warframe powers it's not high on their priority list and slips through the balancing cracks.  If you are talking about the regular bombards then you need to learn to dodge their missiles.  Also, the slow does protect you because the firing interval is increased, reducing the number of rockets you have to worry about.