Star Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Yeah, tell that to my Nova after she gets hit by a few "disadvantaged" bombards, just one has me bleeding out 90% of the time, the slow ability does absolutely nothing to protect me. Your argument doesn't hold up, and as for Nova not being a glass cannon, she is the most glass cannon next to Mesa, and even Mesa has much better defensive capabilities than Nova. The trade-off would have to be pretty damned good in order for me to accept it without a fuss, and even then I think it would &!$$ my husband off, because he's currently happy with my Nova just the way she is. Not too powerful, but not too useless either. I play her purely support, only go offense when I have to, and the kind of nerf that this thread seems to be geared toward would make her a frame no one wants to see. I like Nova, if I have to completely scrap the build I like for her the way I had to do with Ember after the fail she became with the most recent update I don't know how long I'll keep playing. It isn't fair to the people who enjoy her to just nerf her to cater to a few people who have a personal beef. I don't like Mesa's ult, it's much, much more abused that Nova's, and don't get me started on Limbo, but I still think it would be the worst thing they could do to nerf the powers. I'm willing to defend frames who I think are too much abused, it's not fair for my main to get a nerf just because someone thinks she does what she does a little too well to suit them. I'm with you. If they ruin Nova, I'd have to just stop. I got Nova the day she was released, and her Prime was the first prime I've ever had or bothered to care about. Nova pretty much the reason I play this game, and if they made any changes to her that interfered with my ability to have fun playing her.. well, I would have no more reason to play, really. Nova is what got me into this game hook line and sinker. I'm not saying my personal experience should be a direct argument against any kind of change, just throwing it out there. Just because some people out there have evolved into over 9000 super pro sit in survival for 2 hours and play defense missions for 70 rounds and are apparently god-tier game masters to the point where they think doing that S#&$ is "easy" doesn't mean there is anything truly wrong with the frame. What it sounds like to me is we need new and harder content to appease people who have obviously spent so much time doing the same thing over and over for so long that they have developed the skill to do it with perfection. Even if they beat every frame in the game bloody with the Nerf Bat, those same people are still going to adjust and adapt, and arrive at the same conclusions once they've worked out the details of "how to do it right" - and they will just call for more nerfs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPandemonium Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Just because some people out there have evolved into over 9000 super pro sit in survival for 2 hours and play defense missions for 70 rounds and are apparently god-tier game masters to the point where they think doing that S#&$ is "easy" doesn't mean there is anything truly wrong with the frame. What it sounds like to me is we need new and harder content to appease people who have obviously spent so much time doing the same thing over and over for so long that they have developed the skill to do it with perfection. Even if they beat every frame in the game bloody with the Nerf Bat, those same people are still going to adjust and adapt, and arrive at the same conclusions once they've worked out the details of "how to do it right" - and they will just call for more nerfs. Those players aren't doing "easy S#&$." They're turning off gameplay so that they can continue to "fight" level xxx enemies. The ability to turn off gameplay is the whole issue here. Revising the abilities that allow players to not care about the consequences of their actions and just snooze through missions is key to making the game stay fun in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaHorseman Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Those players aren't doing "easy S#&$." They're turning off gameplay so that they can continue to "fight" level xxx enemies. The ability to turn off gameplay is the whole issue here. Revising the abilities that allow players to not care about the consequences of their actions and just snooze through missions is key to making the game stay fun in the long run. "Fun" is subjective. Whatʻs fun for you may be boring for someone else. Fun is different from player to player. And how do you know they turn off gameplay? How is this turning off gameplay? You still have to shoot the enemies under the CC effect, if they actually turned it off they would just shoot the power off and not do nothing, by which you donʻt achieve your goal or anything in the game. For all any of us know they have good synergy between their team and utilize their equipment and WarFrames to their fullest potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Those players aren't doing "easy S#&$." They're turning off gameplay so that they can continue to "fight" level xxx enemies. The ability to turn off gameplay is the whole issue here. Revising the abilities that allow players to not care about the consequences of their actions and just snooze through missions is key to making the game stay fun in the long run. They're not "turning off gameplay". The gameplay is still there, they have just gotten good to the point where it is no longer challenging is what I am trying to say. Its not like you can just walk into T4 Defense or Survival with a Nova, hit MP and literally just stand there and win without trying. If you don't watch yourself and play well, you will still fail. Molecular Prime is a utility to make doing so more manageable, or in some cases more difficult if you want to. That is part of the magic of Warframe - it is highly customizeable. Things can literally be as easy or hard as you make them for yourself. These players who are calling T4 Survival after 1 hour and Defense past round 50 "easy" are just too good for their own good, and the game as a whole is not offering new and harder challenges to them. Anything you do becomes easy once you've done it enough times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPandemonium Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 "Fun" is subjective. Whatʻs fun for you may be boring for someone else. Fun is different from player to player. And how do you know they turn off gameplay? How is this turning off gameplay? You still have to shoot the enemies under the CC effect, if they actually turned it off they would just shoot the power off and not do nothing, by which you donʻt achieve your goal or anything in the game. For all any of us know they have good synergy between their team and utilize their equipment and WarFrames to their fullest potential. I'm not trying to say that taking a dedicated group into late survivals and defenses and working the tools available to you to the maximum to survive as far as possible isn't fun, but I am saying that that should never be the focus of balance. Many requests for content revisions amount to "make my frame/gun good for dealing with level 100 enemies." Level 100 enemies are an outlier as far as the game's content goes, so it's a fool's errand to go out of the way try to accommodate that aspect of play specifically. It also tends to have the side effect of trivializing normal gameplay ("if it works well against level 100 enemies, level 40 enemies have no chance," or "this basically deactivates the enemies so it doesn't matter what level they are; they're now a non-factor.") Being able to play in level 80+ content is a happy side-effect of the options we have, not the focus. As far as Nova's contribution to this, the ridiculous slow makes the game heaps easier, increasing the efficacy of pretty much everything else by several times, from the slow, to the damage amp, to the chain explosions. Individually each is very powerful, and together they all but neuter enemies. Also, the claim that Nova is a glass-cannon "support frame" is fallacious; she is safer than almost every other frame to play due to Mprime, Wormhole, high energy pool for QT (Nova Prime is a monster when it comes to safety, with her boosted energy AND shields on top of everything else,) and high natural sprint speed. She also "supports" herself as much as anyone else with her massive debuff. There's not really such a thing as a "pure support" in a game where any frame can bring any weapons, including overpowered options. Something more akin to pure support would be Banshee using Sound Quake, sticking her neck out for teammates in their time of need, or to defend the objective, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiskeyGolf Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 RealPandemonium, not everybody has Quick Thinking. I don't have quick thinking. In the time since the first nerf to Nova, I have found that I have to play Nova a lot more cautiously now, because my preferred build has basically turned her into a short range debuffer. Gone are the days when I could MP and then shoot at long range; now I MP and shoot in close combat range. Also, Nova not being squishy? Jesus christ what are you smoking, she's the squishiest frame I've played. The only frame squishier is Mesa, who at least has Shatter Shield. I have played 486 hours of Warframe, of which 15% - or 72 hours - were on Nova. I have 8.4 million XP on Nova. And when I play Nova, I have to be careful because she is squishy and will die if she doesn't kill everyone first. So to those who want to nerf Nova some more, I cordially invite thee to perform the act of fornication upon thyself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotherofHermes Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I think the issue most of us may be arguing is a problem of effects per power. Nova has an extremely hard slow, a damage increase, and an explosion effect on a single power. This ability only needs really 2 stats (duration and pwr str) in order to shine. It has no cooldown (if i'm not mistaken). The issue is that there is a feeling of loss of agency and loss of validation upon attempting to work with such a frame that can do all of these things at the same time. Some frames synergism well with nova (like ashe and excalibur). Other frames can sometimes feel kind of pointless. When I play nyx or ember with a nova on my team i notice the amount of abilities i cast gets reduced dramatically as they are no longer needed in the face of the sheer gun damage increase and the chain reaction explosion effect. essencially it feels like the game is saying: with nova around your powers don't matter. just be a guy with a gun. You don't need to be a tenno. Now i realize this feeling is subjective, that not playing with these people is an option, or playing a nova myself is also an option. How does this make a player with that feeling of agency loss feel: "Oh, the cool kid is here. I better get used to not being as awesome as them, or i better just leave." It's suppose to be 4 guys against an army. That's true. But right now Some people are wanting that power fantasy, seeing the one that nova gets at the push of a single ability, and probably thinking: "why don't I get that on my favorite frame? Why can't my frame of choice also be this effective? shouldn't this game be about playing the way I want to? why does that frame/playstyle get so much favoritism?" Some people think for a moment and realize that if everyone had 3 awesome effects that could cover the entire map with 2 stats focused on with a single button the game would become extremely trivial. As trivial as we saw at vivier and we are seeing at draco now. As such, they are recommending a re-balance of nova rather than a buff of every other frame. (the draco/viver stuff is another thread of discussion) the other issue that happens is that if your favorite frame (let's take ember for example) doesn't have tools >= nova (let's say ember(espcially pre-changes) as an example) most people will refuse to join up with you as they see it as a reduction in team efficiency (which it technically is. nova is very good at killing lots of dudes(which means lots of rewards). other people want do that too or think it makes the game to easy). If anything I think a redistribution of power would be great(not a nerf). Why should nova only have 1 move she is known for? why can't null star be reworked to do something awesome? why can't wormhole do something extra cool too? Concerning difficulty warframe is currently a pve game. you are meant to win. the amount of difficulty required to do so is something that is, in most shooters, decided by the player. As such, the addition of meaner enemies and in the future the options for difficulty would be preferred. As of right now, however, many players see the best immediate option is to balance (or straight out nerf) of nova (including a reduction of the effectiveness of Molecular prime). So what options does that leave us: 1. continue to leave a game/altf4 out everytime someone who doesn't like nova sees in their game a nova and are jealous/dislike her 3 powers in 1 map covering ult ability 2. Do silly things on our own just to increase "perceived difficulty" while getting less rewards. 3. nerf nova. 4. rebalance nova. 5. buff all frames to have more abilitys that do multiple things at the same time and have the same level of utility. 6. allow for changing how difficulty works so more people can play their way. There may be more options than this (there definitely are). I, however, believe that the first 3 options are not viable for a long lasting game where some people play nova and some don't. For those of you responding, please focus on my points rather than my examples, rhetoric, or semantics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPandemonium Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) In the time since the first nerf to Nova, I have found that I have to play Nova a lot more cautiously now, because my preferred build has basically turned her into a short range debuffer. Gone are the days when I could MP and then shoot at long range; now I MP and shoot in close combat range. So you don't use duration mods? I don't see why you wouldn't want to. I like your parting message, though. :P Edited January 28, 2015 by RealPandemonium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaHorseman Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 5. buff all frames to have more abilitys that do multiple things at the same time and have the same level of utility. 6. allow for changing how difficulty works so more people can play their way. I like those two, those sound fun, and way better than nerfing someone else's toy because it's perceived to be better than your own. And besides, who wouldn't want their frames to be better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul.Fire Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Corrupted bombards are unbalanced compared to their regular counterpart. This is itself a symptom of overpowered options being available: DE releases cheesy enemies but because people tend to turn off gameplay with exploitable warframe powers it's not high on their priority list and slips through the balancing cracks. If you are talking about the regular bombards then you need to learn to dodge their missiles. Also, the slow does protect you because the firing interval is increased, reducing the number of rockets you have to worry about. It's not just corrupted bombards, anything over level 35, sometimes as low as 25 in the case of Grineer because of the absurd ability they have to proc slash, regardless of planet, map or creed brings Nova down in three hits maximum. She is squishy, she has no defense, Wormhole is not viable as an escape option, you have to stop to aim it, then you have to physically move through it, it has almost two seconds of cast time, half of that to cast it, half to actually make it show up, and the enemies can and will and do follow you through it, very, very often, and lately I've had to push each button at least twice half the time to get one skill to go off. There is definitely something going on in the coding for the skills that should not be. Antimat-Drop is buggy at best, unusable at worst, it's also not reliable as a damage dealer because the bullet multiplication that it supposedly does quite often does not work as prescribed. Null Star does not do enough damage, it does not do enough of anything at all to be useful in anything but very low levels. 20 is the absolute maximum level enemy it does any sort of damage to, and it falls off drastically after that. MPrime is the absolute only thing she has going for her, it's her only defense and now you want to take even that away and leave her with what? Miserable shields, miserable hit points, miserable armor, and no defense abilities whatsoever. It's not fair, it will never be fair, and it's wrong to expect us to just take a blatant slap in the face, an outright kick in the teeth like everyone who wants to nerf her is proposing without any protest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul.Fire Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I think the issue most of us may be arguing is a problem of effects per power. Nova has an extremely hard slow, a damage increase, and an explosion effect on a single power. This ability only needs really 2 stats (duration and pwr str) in order to shine. It has no cooldown (if i'm not mistaken). The issue is that there is a feeling of loss of agency and loss of validation upon attempting to work with such a frame that can do all of these things at the same time. Some frames synergism well with nova (like ashe and excalibur). Other frames can sometimes feel kind of pointless. When I play nyx or ember with a nova on my team i notice the amount of abilities i cast gets reduced dramatically as they are no longer needed in the face of the sheer gun damage increase and the chain reaction explosion effect. essencially it feels like the game is saying: with nova around your powers don't matter. just be a guy with a gun. You don't need to be a tenno. Now i realize this feeling is subjective, that not playing with these people is an option, or playing a nova myself is also an option. How does this make a player with that feeling of agency loss feel: "Oh, the cool kid is here. I better get used to not being as awesome as them, or i better just leave." It's suppose to be 4 guys against an army. That's true. But right now Some people are wanting that power fantasy, seeing the one that nova gets at the push of a single ability, and probably thinking: "why don't I get that on my favorite frame? Why can't my frame of choice also be this effective? shouldn't this game be about playing the way I want to? why does that frame/playstyle get so much favoritism?" Some people think for a moment and realize that if everyone had 3 awesome effects that could cover the entire map with 2 stats focused on with a single button the game would become extremely trivial. As trivial as we saw at vivier and we are seeing at draco now. As such, they are recommending a re-balance of nova rather than a buff of every other frame. (the draco/viver stuff is another thread of discussion) the other issue that happens is that if your favorite frame (let's take ember for example) doesn't have tools >= nova (let's say ember(espcially pre-changes) as an example) most people will refuse to join up with you as they see it as a reduction in team efficiency (which it technically is. nova is very good at killing lots of dudes(which means lots of rewards). other people want do that too or think it makes the game to easy). If anything I think a redistribution of power would be great(not a nerf). Why should nova only have 1 move she is known for? why can't null star be reworked to do something awesome? why can't wormhole do something extra cool too? Concerning difficulty warframe is currently a pve game. you are meant to win. the amount of difficulty required to do so is something that is, in most shooters, decided by the player. As such, the addition of meaner enemies and in the future the options for difficulty would be preferred. As of right now, however, many players see the best immediate option is to balance (or straight out nerf) of nova (including a reduction of the effectiveness of Molecular prime). So what options does that leave us: 1. continue to leave a game/altf4 out everytime someone who doesn't like nova sees in their game a nova and are jealous/dislike her 3 powers in 1 map covering ult ability 2. Do silly things on our own just to increase "perceived difficulty" while getting less rewards. 3. nerf nova. 4. rebalance nova. 5. buff all frames to have more abilitys that do multiple things at the same time and have the same level of utility. 6. allow for changing how difficulty works so more people can play their way. There may be more options than this (there definitely are). I, however, believe that the first 3 options are not viable for a long lasting game where some people play nova and some don't. For those of you responding, please focus on my points rather than my examples, rhetoric, or semantics. Ember had that brilliant damage dealing ability before they went and nerfed her this last time. I used feel good playing her, now it's just an instant reminder of what all this incessant begging for nerfs gets us x.x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul.Fire Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I like those two, those sound fun, and way better than nerfing someone else's toy because it's perceived to be better than your own. And besides, who wouldn't want their frames to be better? That's a good idea. Some of the rest of the frames need a buff anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul.Fire Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 They're not "turning off gameplay". The gameplay is still there, they have just gotten good to the point where it is no longer challenging is what I am trying to say. Its not like you can just walk into T4 Defense or Survival with a Nova, hit MP and literally just stand there and win without trying. If you don't watch yourself and play well, you will still fail. Molecular Prime is a utility to make doing so more manageable, or in some cases more difficult if you want to. That is part of the magic of Warframe - it is highly customizeable. Things can literally be as easy or hard as you make them for yourself. These players who are calling T4 Survival after 1 hour and Defense past round 50 "easy" are just too good for their own good, and the game as a whole is not offering new and harder challenges to them. Anything you do becomes easy once you've done it enough times. He's not getting it. Him and people like him will always want to nerf this, rebalance that, they'd all have us nerfed and rebalanced into oblivion to the point where we can't kill anything without using an entire clip from a soma prime if they had their way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiskeyGolf Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 So you don't use duration mods? I don't see why you wouldn't want to. I like your parting message, though. :P I do use duration mods, but well, in the face of -50% Duration from a Rank 4 Fleeting Expertise, there's not really much range I get from a maxed Constitution, and I haven't finished maxing Primed Continuity yet. Part of the problem is that for survivability I'm now running Redirection and Fortitude; I used to skip Redirection because Molecular Prime's instacast meant enemies would be instantly primed and wouldn't be getting close enough to hurt me, but now I slot Redirection for safety's sake. (Yes yes, I know I could make Large Shield Restores.... except that I'm all out of Ferrite and need to grind it. Yes, I am the only person who needs to grind Ferrite. :p) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul.Fire Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I do use duration mods, but well, in the face of -50% Duration from a Rank 4 Fleeting Expertise, there's not really much range I get from a maxed Constitution, and I haven't finished maxing Primed Continuity yet. Part of the problem is that for survivability I'm now running Redirection and Fortitude; I used to skip Redirection because Molecular Prime's instacast meant enemies would be instantly primed and wouldn't be getting close enough to hurt me, but now I slot Redirection for safety's sake. (Yes yes, I know I could make Large Shield Restores.... except that I'm all out of Ferrite and need to grind it. Yes, I am the only person who needs to grind Ferrite. :p) lol No actually you aren't, I tend to build stuff from scratch all the time, like my dojo XD But back on topic, it really isn't necessary to nerf her, she's so squishy there really wouldn't be any point other than it would make her into another episode of the ongoing Mag/Ember shame-fest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NytroBeast Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) Personally I think Nova is more broken in her current state rather than OP. I play Nova alot myself and feel like i have a good grip on her. Lets look at her abilities. 1.) Nullstar - does laughable damage and fires rather slowly, even when modded to cater to this it is useless past an enemy who is level 20+. Personally I cant rmember the last time i casted this without it being a mistake. When compared to other frames and their first tier abilities such as Mesa's Ballistic Battery and hell even Embers Fireball it is blatantrly under powered. 2.) Anti-matter drop -This ability rarely ever works if your not the host and even then works spotily. when it works it does amazing damage in a 15 meter radius (without mods) and when it doesnt it cant break 100. Many weapons can 'over charge it' and force it to roll over to no damage (my understanding) i know its easy to roll over to 0 damage with a gammacor or a flux rifle. making this a hard ability to rely on. 3.) Wormhole - Yes it's a good utility and is helpful when you have time to use it (getting on ledges and whatnot) but in reality, if your surrounded to the point you dont know how to get out, where can you cast a portal within line of sight that will take you out of harms way, it can take you past a wall of enemys to have a chance at running but little else than that.rarely will you get out of trouble so much that the enemies cant just turn around and shoot you anyway. If you look at loki's invisibility, it casts and your instantly affected rather than having to cast and move into it, same with ash's smoke screen. that ebing said im happy with how it works and is a good method for travelling and such. 4.) the infamous molecular prime - speed debuff of 30% base and can go up to75% and forces enemies to take 100% more damage. Really the only ability that can be considered OP or usefull in alot of situations. This ability really only makes you OP when with a group. lets say you mod for max duration (travel) and slow. yes you've slowed a room full of people in the void and they damage you significantly less, then more enemioes for outside the blast radius run in a rape you. your adverage - low stats are still there. nullifiers are unaffected and late game one bombard rocket can set you up for disaster. even being slowed you can easily be taken down if there are a reasonable amount of enemies. (side note: i've never actually seen anyone with an 82 meter range as it criples other aspects of the ability) I see alot of people saying QT and p.flow will make her super op but if your moding for Max M Prime theres really no room for it. In conclusion, i dont think Nova is as OP as people seem to think she is, even if her ult is really powerful she still take damage and lasts about as long as a water in a paper bag if not played correctly. with her other abilitys in contrast i dont think changes should be made to her ult untill her other abilitys have been looked at the biggest one for me being AMD's not working without being the host. Don't judge my grammar or spelling, it's late and i don't care. Edit: wanted to add that M.Primes possible chain reaction and explosion from enemies affected by it is about the equivilant to a slap in the face to higher level enemies. Edited January 28, 2015 by NytroBeast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPandemonium Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Ember had that brilliant damage dealing ability before they went and nerfed her this last time. I used feel good playing her, now it's just an instant reminder of what all this incessant begging for nerfs gets us x.x You mean Fireball? WoF is more of a supplemental damage button (and now it's also a defensive buff with the new proc rate) than a bread and butter damage skill. I do use duration mods, but well, in the face of -50% Duration from a Rank 4 Fleeting Expertise, there's not really much range I get from a maxed Constitution, and I haven't finished maxing Primed Continuity yet. Part of the problem is that for survivability I'm now running Redirection and Fortitude; I used to skip Redirection because Molecular Prime's instacast meant enemies would be instantly primed and wouldn't be getting close enough to hurt me, but now I slot Redirection for safety's sake. (Yes yes, I know I could make Large Shield Restores.... except that I'm all out of Ferrite and need to grind it. Yes, I am the only person who needs to grind Ferrite. :p) You can equip Narrow Minded with pretty much no downside except MPrime explosion radius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisRestall Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Nova dies 1 hit from Bombard? Just how bad do you play Nova or how awful do you mod her? Maxed Vitality? Maxed Redirection? One word, cancer. People are too stewpid to realize that Nova cannot be built with HP/Shield mods because those falls off VERY quickly. Or they probably just force it into their argument because they don't want their easy mode be removed :^) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakim0n0 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I leave for like 6 months and people are still complaining about Nova lol.I'm going to say the exact same thing I said about it then, the same thing I said about rushing, the same thing I said about people leaving missions early on (like in defense etc)If you have a particular preferance as to how you want to play; play private matches, advertise in chat what you're looking for, cultivate a friend's list.If you want to mix it up with total randoms, expect people to be doing whatever they feel like.Instead of petitioning the game to be changed to suit your tastes (and believe me, just about everyone has different tastes) take control and be more selective with your play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPandemonium Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Nova dies 1 hit from Bombard? Just how bad do you play Nova or how awful do you mod her? Maxed Vitality? Maxed Redirection? One word, cancer. People are too stewpid to realize that Nova cannot be built with HP/Shield mods because those falls off VERY quickly. Or they probably just force it into their argument because they don't want their easy mode be removed :^) Most forum users are lacking in fundamentals and don't try to overcome the challenges that the game throws at them. They expect warframe abilities to overcome the challenges for them explicitly rather than more nuanced abilities that have the potential to be of great use but are not a catch-all. This has happened due to powercreep and reliance on frame abilities to play the game for you. You don't need to develop fundamentals if 4spam and gameplay-nullifying abilities are your bread and butter. If anything, such players would view everything that isn't in those two categories as useless and frames that don't have them are considered not viable (Ember is a prominent example.) Basically, casual players want the game to cater to their tastes and skill level, and when DE accommodates them it just spawns more of them. At the same time, the game becomes too easy and veterans demand a challenge, so DE makes the game harder in artificial ways; mostly through balance oversights like Ballistas, Seekers, Corrupted Bombards and Corrupted Nullifiers, etc, though T4 content can also be construed as this (not that T4 content is bad, but HIGHER NUMBERS being the solution is a bandaid at best.) Lastly, although we are aligned in terms of our perspective, it would be wise to leave the vitriol at the door when chastising the ignorant masses. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakim0n0 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Basically, casual players want the game to cater to their tastes and skill level, and when DE accommodates them it just spawns more of them. At the same time, the game becomes too easy and veterans demand a challenge, so DE makes the game harder in artificial ways; mostly through balance oversights like Ballistas, Seekers, Corrupted Bombards and Corrupted Nullifiers, etc, though T4 content can also be construed as this (not that T4 content is bad, but HIGHER NUMBERS being the solution is a bandaid at best.) I agree with this. However, keep in mind, casual players make or break games. WoW became so insurmountibly popular because they veered (hard) away from the hardcore aspects and catered to casual players. DE has consistantly tried to make the game friendly to casual players with a peppering of flavor for the more hardcore players and if you look at their population trends >the playerbase rewarded them for it< It's kind of hard to hold it against a company for giving their customers >what the majority of their customers demand< considering that's sort of the point of starting a business. I agree that games in general tend to be watered down amusement parks without sharp edges and mostly easy content; but when you cater to hardcore players you dramatically limit your playerbase and potential income; and hardcore centric F2P is almost unheard of BECAUSE it kills populations before they even get off the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul.Fire Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Nova dies 1 hit from Bombard? Just how bad do you play Nova or how awful do you mod her? Maxed Vitality? Maxed Redirection? One word, cancer. People are too stewpid to realize that Nova cannot be built with HP/Shield mods because those falls off VERY quickly. Or they probably just force it into their argument because they don't want their easy mode be removed :^) I build for damage, I'm not that much of a dunce. But still, any high level bombard will still take a max of 3 hits to kill her, minimum of 1 if they crit, and they often do. And don't get me started on those damned nullifiers with their @(*()$ lankas, those even eat Valkyr the minute she enters their damned bubble. Easy mode, are you kidding me? She can hold her own but it's because I play as a sniper, I specialize in not being in reach or in sight, and that doesn't always work. The damage she does is completely offset by how squishy she actually is when you actually take the time to look at her stats and stack them up against substantial enemies that do substantial damage. She is squishy, end of story, period. She is even more squishy than Zephyr, at least Zephyr has Turbulence as a defense. I think everybody demanding a nerf is jealous because Nova's skill is actually pretty when compared to those of some other frames. Hey, I have an idea, let's make Mirage less sparkly and deadly just to make the nerf this people all feel better, if you're gonna nerf one then hell, might as well nerf 'em all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul.Fire Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 You mean Fireball? WoF is more of a supplemental damage button (and now it's also a defensive buff with the new proc rate) than a bread and butter damage skill. You can equip Narrow Minded with pretty much no downside except MPrime explosion radius. I had no trouble with WoF until they made it suck energy like it does and then gave it that ridiculous duration cap, and made it hit only 3 enemies at a time. And it usually ignores the one that's actually killing you in favor of the ones running around in circles too. So yes, you may consider that a sound tactical decision/buff, but I call constantly getting my &#! kicked on even the easiest missions a nerf and a slap in the face. The armor buff does absolutely nothing to help at that point, especially against Grineer that ignore armor and shields altogether with slash procs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisRestall Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I build for damage, I'm not that much of a dunce. But still, any high level bombard will still take a max of 3 hits to kill her, minimum of 1 if they crit, and they often do. And don't get me started on those damned nullifiers with their @(*()$ lankas, those even eat Valkyr the minute she enters their damned bubble. Easy mode, are you kidding me? She can hold her own but it's because I play as a sniper, I specialize in not being in reach or in sight, and that doesn't always work. The damage she does is completely offset by how squishy she actually is when you actually take the time to look at her stats and stack them up against substantial enemies that do substantial damage. She is squishy, end of story, period. She is even more squishy than Zephyr, at least Zephyr has Turbulence as a defense. I think everybody demanding a nerf is jealous because Nova's skill is actually pretty when compared to those of some other frames. Hey, I have an idea, let's make Mirage less sparkly and deadly just to make the nerf this people all feel better, if you're gonna nerf one then hell, might as well nerf 'em all. Any frame even a Mesa under Shatter Shield dies pretty quickly if hit by bombard's missile 2 times, go try it. While Zephyr doesn't have any problem at all with Nullifier, she has major problems with bombards. Using Nullifier to say Nova is squishy isn't a good argument, because any frame without any ability to defend themselves would have the same said squishiness. Your vision is too narrow, let me enlighten you. Like someone said here, you can reach 80+ meters on Mprime with all the duration mods available. It makes every other mob easy to kill except only for Nullifier because it isn't affected. For the mobs that cannot be seen because they are slowed on their awkward places, the solution is simple, 2 person using Enemy Radar. Back to the Nullifiers, even though this will obviously 1 shot you at 45mins+ of T4S even with P. Flow + QT, other mobs are still so slowed where your teammates could pick you up w/o any problems after killing the said Nullifier. This is how broken Mprime is with the right usage. Let me throw another bomb, you want fast R5s? Go T4 Intercept, use a Nova with maximum duration w/o Fleeting and camp in the middle of the map, get a Trinity as a teammate and start facerolling T4I giving way faster rewards than T4D and T4S. With what I said above, it just proves how overpowered Nova is to be able to do such things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revel72 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I don't think nerfing the Nova is the right solution nerfing the corrupted mods would be ideal. They are stupidly powerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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