Azawarau Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 See, the thing is, No one is really forcing you to play Nova. No one is forcing your squad to use Nova. You could nerf Nova, and remove MPrime's uses, but what would that do? It essentially turns Nova into nothing but a Antimatter Drop spam user. And remember that it doesn't even work if you are a client. (3 Clients, 1 Host, most likely AMD won't work.) What are you suggesting is not "Balance Nova", but "Make her the worst frame in the game". Well youre going under the assumptions that she wont get something in return or that M prime would be made useless if toned down or is useless if toned down anymore than it is now. At 50% slow she was already an extremely arguable top tier CC With 75% she stands among the best Lets not forget she also doubles damage on powers and dishes out damage that is on par with even the top damage frames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PickleMonster21 Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Not as effectively as a nova in most cases Perhaps a ma range stomp spam build but youd lose all use in every power except stomp that way and still arguably CC less than what a nova could But if you nerf Nova's Molecular Prime... ._. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiiat Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Is that not something a Rhino could do? what? Damage Mitigation? *laughs* Rhino has no Damage Mitigation. if you're talking about Roar, Roar is mediocre even with absolute maximum possible Power Strength. Damage mitigation, nova? Have you ever seen a nyx? THAT is damage mitigation. And while they are at it they attack each other. And if they do find you you just go into absorb and pull agro from your allies at the same time. A primed bombard may not have speed. But he still hurts like hell. Wont stop that with nova. Nyx? Nyx doesn't have any Damage Mitigation. Mind Control makes one Enemy not shoot you. that isn't Damage Mitigation. Psychic Bolts is like a backup Chaos. isn't Damage Mitigation. Chaos makes Enemies attack random targets. this isn't Damage Mitigation. and if something shoots at you, it's the same as if it was shooting at you while not affected by any Abilities. Absorb isn't Damage Mitigation. you Absorb it. at a 100% rate (except for Magnetic because someone decided to make it 90% Resistant to Magnetic instead of just making Absorb have poor efficiency of Absorbing Damage from another Absorb, so that Magnetic Damage from Enemies and Players wouldn't get screwed) yes, you yourself don't take Damage, and it has a high Threat Level, so Enemies generally focus on it. but it doesn't Mitigate any Damage. Damage Mitigation means to reduce the effect of incoming Damage. meaning, making less severe. Absorbing it and then returning it back to them doesn't Mitigate it, it reflects it. it's certainly very useful, but it's something different. as for Nova, Molecular Prime can have a maximum amount of 75% DPS Mitigation. i admit, for slow shooting Enemies, it doesn't technically reduce their Damage, since it's an Enemy based on power hits. but, for most Enemies, who rely on shooting often for little Damage, it does make for Damage Mitigation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azawarau Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 what? Damage Mitigation? *laughs* Rhino has no Damage Mitigation. if you're talking about Roar, Roar is mediocre even with absolute maximum possible Power Strength. Nyx? Nyx doesn't have any Damage Mitigation. Mind Control makes one Enemy not shoot you. that isn't Damage Mitigation. Psychic Bolts is like a backup Chaos. isn't Damage Mitigation. Chaos makes Enemies attack random targets. this isn't Damage Mitigation. and if something shoots at you, it's the same as if it was shooting at you while not affected by any Abilities. Absorb isn't Damage Mitigation. you Absorb it. at a 100% rate (except for Magnetic because someone decided to make it 90% Resistant to Magnetic instead of just making Absorb have poor efficiency of Absorbing Damage from another Absorb, so that Magnetic Damage from Enemies and Players wouldn't get screwed) yes, you yourself don't take Damage, and it has a high Threat Level, so Enemies generally focus on it. but it doesn't Mitigate any Damage. Damage Mitigation means to reduce the effect of incoming Damage. meaning, making less severe. Absorbing it and then returning it back to them doesn't Mitigate it, it reflects it. it's certainly very useful, but it's something different. as for Nova, Molecular Prime can have a maximum amount of 75% DPS Mitigation. i admit, for slow shooting Enemies, it doesn't technically reduce their Damage, since it's an Enemy based on power hits. but, for most Enemies, who rely on shooting often for little Damage, it does make for Damage Mitigation. Chaos kinda mitigates damage with enemies more busy shooting eachother than you The big thing about novas is you can literally run circles around enemies and theyll barely have time to so much as take a shot... But if you nerf Nova's Molecular Prime... ._. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traybong111 Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 While I agree with the OP, good luck taking away people's easy mode. And sometimes it is nice to just lay back, enjoy a snack, read the forums while Mesa and Nova do all the work in defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azawarau Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 While I agree with the OP, good luck taking away people's easy mode. And sometimes it is nice to just lay back, enjoy a snack, read the forums while Mesa and Nova do all the work in defense. The issue is when it conflicts with end game If you want to play casually you can without impeding on end game and being rewarded for it Its alot of the reason WF hasnt been able to hit a real end game that players feel satisfied with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Sgt Batman MD Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 (edited) Edit: Removed because I'm wrong. Edited January 24, 2015 by (XB1)Sgt Batman MD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llyssa Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Well youre going under the assumptions that she wont get something in return Well, yeah. It's not a nerf if supposedly-god-frame gets slightly less-godly on one power, but in exchange gains an equal amount of godly on another power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azawarau Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 While we're at it, nerf Corrosive Projection, Dread, Boltor, Soma, Scindo, Galatine, Orthos. Also take away Vaubans vortex and bastille, Nekros' desecrate, Loki's invisibility and radial disarm, Frost's bubbles, Rhino's Stomp, Nyx, Mirage. Because those all make living in the T4 world so much more managable. Might as well just remove Serration/Heavy Caliber/Split Chamber. Or all MODS except Ammo Drum, since all you need is more bullets anyways. In retrospect, lets just make this Call of Duty. Static weapon damage, no powers, no modding. Just equip this gun, it's the same as everybody elses version, and we'll just leave it up to random chance if we look like the terrorists or counter-terrorists. Because people don't do well with choices anyways right? Right. Now youre going off on a wild unrelted rant What does anything youve mentioned have to do with Nova directly? If other things need a change then why does that exempt Nova from anything? If thats the case i could mention bastille and someone could namedrop Nova and not really be saying anything Literally this entire post is a wild and unrelated overreaction to nothing Well, yeah. It's not a nerf if supposedly-god-frame gets slightly less-godly on one power, but in exchange gains an equal amount of godly on another power. Perhaps not equal but certainly not one trick pony worthy Im looking at null star for power and utility More AoE and speedier launch time between orbs Also more range to help with the conflict of max orbs and duration As for M prime..... If the slow were reduced to 50% capped itd be nice but personally id like to see it go to 30 and have its explosion range increased Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)WiiConquered Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Perhaps a removal of the firerate decrease effect would make her work. But everything together makes her ultimate like three abilities rolled into one. It should require team synergy to do what she does alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Sgt Batman MD Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 (edited) Edit: Removed because I'm wrong. Edited January 24, 2015 by (XB1)Sgt Batman MD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NocturneOfSolace Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 To make the same statement that most of us reasonable people state when there are nerfs called for the Boltor and Soma PrimeNo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaugahn Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 No That's not a reply you hear from reasonable people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKhaun Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 (edited) Or, it's indirectly related to the "nerf this, nerf that" mindset that everybody has assumed lately. Everybody is so quick to say nerf everything, eventually everything will be nerfed to where end game in T4's are at wave/minute 30, and then people will be crying when frames trivialize THAT. Where does this end? Everybody is crying for almost every frame to be nerfed. There are countless threads like this, so if we're rallying to nerf one frame/ability, lets just get it over with and nerf them all until it's just a pretty light show. It ends when I can log on, build the best I can, set up the best I can, play the best I can and the game is STILL CHALLENGING. If I have to go to the highest base level content, endless modes and wait 30-40min for that to happen then we need more nerfs. It's not even really a nerf, it's a correction downward to where it should be. The range within which we nerf and buff is a mile below where most powers are now. Though, again, I don't think Nova in particular is bad right now. I think the problem we need to tackle first is the fact that our whole energy gate its broken. It's okay to be super powerful if you're busy picking and choosing when and how to be super powerful. It's the spam mentality that makes it game breakingly strong by removing challenge. It's hard to judge how good or bad something is when it's hyper available. Edited January 24, 2015 by VKhaun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PickleMonster21 Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 ? Then OTHER Frames take her place, then it's "Nerf this, nerf that" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Sgt Batman MD Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 (edited) Edit: Removed because I'm wrong. Edited January 24, 2015 by (XB1)Sgt Batman MD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azawarau Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Or, it's indirectly related to the "nerf this, nerf that" mindset that everybody has assumed lately. Everybody is so quick to say nerf everything, eventually everything will be nerfed to where end game in T4's are at wave/minute 30, and then people will be crying when frames trivialize THAT. Where does this end? Everybody is crying for almost every frame to be nerfed. There are countless threads like this, so if we're rallying to nerf one frame/ability, lets just get it over with and nerf them all until it's just a pretty light show. Youre making wild accusations again. this thread alone is showing that not everyone thinks everyhting should be nerfed again. And you even went as far as to say im on a high horse And as for countless nerf threads https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/368661-is-it-time-for-more-shield-options/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/389277-world-on-fire/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/388985-ember-changes-post-15110-megathread/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/372905-frost-the-neglected-frame/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/390059-hydroid-feedback-and-discussion/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/339032-rhino-rhino-rhino-edit-7-in-depth-ability-changes/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/389348-buff-for-mags-crush/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/390035-oberon-discussion/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/382685-bring-back-iron-skin-face-tanking/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/388944-excalibur-prime-buff-in-line-with-other-primes/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/389347-lets-brainstorm-some-passives/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/388095-riplinewall-hang/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/390113-movement-update-and-dagger-buff-concept/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/387385-mag-shield-transference-creating-overshields-for-entire-squad/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/384318-limbo-rift-surge-replacement-plus-buffs/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/389377-buff-for-hydroids-tentacle-swarm/ Compared to nerf threads Well theres this one? Youre overeacting That's not a reply you hear from reasonable people. +1 Then OTHER Frames take her place, then it's "Nerf this, nerf that" No. Thats not true Some things get buffed and some things get nerfed It might take a while but eventually everything will fit together Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwiceDead Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 (edited) Oh this topic again! Always love coming back here. Yeah, Molecular Prime is ridiculous. CC, Damage Mitigation and Damage Multiplication, all in one power, that lasts forever with a huge radius since its' range is unaffected by power-range mods, but rather affected by duration mods, and its' duration is still affected by power-duration mods. There is no one-package deals like Nova, since you get everything you could possibly need from a single power. Edited January 24, 2015 by TwiceDead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UndeadGhostWarrior Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 would that also be past the point where Endless Missions stop giving you rewards? because that's like going a hundred million miles from a central point in a Procedural Terrain Generator and saying "see it's not perfect, it breaks here, 250,000Km from 0,0,0!!" No wave 100 actually, if u people bothered even trying Do you have proof for this? Proof? Play past wave 100 and see for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PickleMonster21 Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 No. Thats not true Some things get buffed and some things get nerfed It might take a while but eventually everything will fit together Nova's already had her nerfs though xD Trust me. Molecular Prime is fine right where it is. This move used to be a LOT more powerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nekrojiji Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 (edited) DISCLAIMER: Going to get this off my chest to begin with - the title isn't meant to be mean spirited but to grab the reader's attention of the threat Nova currently poses right now towards nearly any enemy in the game. Nova in her current state is too strong for end game content and the reason is obvious, Molecular Prime. An ability capable of slowing enemies at 30% and can be further increased to a whopping 75% reduction to all movement is a bit exaggerating. Now before I get replies with "Leave her alone", "No more nerfs!", "She's fine", you have to come in terms that people also seek a challenge when playing and if anything, it should be implemented into practically any game. Competition is human nature, and so a challenge is presented as well. I would also like players to participate in any high level defense/survival mission with a Nova modded to do so (That is if you haven't before). Playing past wave 50 of defense shouldn't be as easy as the first few waves. An ability that applies crowd control and yet a 2x damage multiplier to enemies affected by it is a tad bit extreme so my simple suggestion for a nerf would be a 20-30% fixed slow (meaning you wouldn't be able to change this value depending on your power strength) and retain to possibly accelerate the wave of anti-matter that applies the debuffs. Nova still has Anti-Matter Drop that can be used in conjunction to obliterate groups of enemies and a few adjustments to Null Star to even things out in her kit. All in all, I do tend to think some crows control abilities are a tad bit strong and yes I did acknowledge Nullifiers while typing this. I find that Nova in her current state is capable of speaking for herself. I agree with you (i think one the few people that do that), but i don't thing that will make Scot balance it.I've been posting for a long time that she has one of the best CC along the most powerfull damage dealing ability in all the game. Some people answer that with "but you need to know how to play". When all the enemies stand almost still waiting for you to end their missery you really only need to know how to press 4 and at least aim and shoot. I've been posting that giving, in the curent state, a different ~7 sec counter to the slow duration, unaffected by power duration, and decreasing the slow over time to 0, will be a step in the right direction. People say she's a glass cannon. Glass cannon means nothing to defend itself, so Nova is not that. At the moment, when you say high level missions you say Nova. Some might say but what about Trinity and Loki?! Yes they will not die but they are balanced by the fact that you have only the weapons to deal damage. Edited January 24, 2015 by nekrojiji Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azawarau Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 No wave 100 actually, if u people bothered even trying Proof? Play past wave 100 and see for yourself. Youre telling me her power has no effect on enemies after wave 100? Assuming this is true its still entirely irrelevant Wave 100 isnt to be balanced on Nova's already had her nerfs though xD Trust me. Molecular Prime is fine right where it is. This move used to be a LOT more powerful. It was buffed ._. More range and more CC Less explosion range but that isnt an issue much.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Sgt Batman MD Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 -......- So you'll go so far as to seek out all the threads that people want buffs, and then indirectly admit that this is the ONLY nerf thread? Don't say I'm overreacting and then stack the argument in your favor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azawarau Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 So you'll go so far as to seek out all the threads that people want buffs, and then indirectly admit that this is the ONLY nerf thread? Don't say I'm overreacting and then stack the argument in your favor. Theres so much irony.... You were the one saying nerfs were everywhere Ive only used the first page of this feedback section as an example of why you were overreacting and you are Now stop for a moment and listen The big issue with Nova is her 4 has Nyx tier CC with Ember,Saryn tier damage and Mirage tier power range without LoS on top of double damage all wrapped up in one and still only hurts one of her powers heavily Theres an issue there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nekrojiji Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 While we're at it, why don't we make Loki only half invisible? It's not a challenge going around, smashing people with a 4x Stealth Multiplier. And make Radial Disarm a timed thing.Don't make Valkyr invincible while in Hysteria and take away her life steal.Reduce Rhino's Iron Skin even further because invincivility isn't a challenge, and take away the stasis from Rhino Stomp These Frames are made to be this way. If you nerf Nova's power, then you have to up her stats. Do you have any idea how squishy she is? She may be a glass cannon, but she's also made of glass. You seriously need to put a "Fragile. Do Not Drop" sticker on her, that's how squishy she is. So to counter her very poor stats, she has very strong powers. She doesn't need a nerf at all. If you can play Nova and make her a viable glass cannon in endless game modes and still live through all the punishment, then you deserve all that power. Loki only has 4x damage if they don't know you are there, but if you only bump into an enemy thy know where you are and even shoot at you, and even with the 4x melee you still don't even come close to Nova's damage. Valkyr in forced into melee when invulnerable and if you don't kill all the targets that are shooting you, inside a radius, you will take all the damage tbey did to you in Hysteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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