Nerfing Nova For The Sake Of Challenging Missions.

[(PSN)Fen_Integrum]

It is my opinion that Molecular Prime has too much going on. I dont think that any of it's parts are OP, but I do think that the parts, while working in tandem, are OP. Not only can you slow any enemy to a standstill (and this was before the advent of Transient Fortitude). This is extraordinarily powerful, even moreso with Infested Impedance, but it is a double edged sword, in that the missions tend to take forever and a day to complete. I'm worried much less about the easy factor, and much more about the time. On the same spectrum, negative power strength makes gameplay much more difficult with her. Sure, it's great damage, but theres always some give and take with this power.

[taiiat]

Well, taiiat, isn't that contradictory?

And at this point, wouldn't you yourself say that Mprime is avoiding damage, rather than reducing it?

wow, it's almost like i clearly explained myself or something, and you chose to ignore it.

 

as for Nova, Molecular Prime can have a maximum amount of 75% DPS Mitigation. i admit, for slow shooting Enemies, it doesn't technically reduce their Damage, since it's an Enemy based on power hits.

but, for most Enemies, who rely on shooting often for little Damage, it does make for Damage Mitigation.

it makes for Damage Mitigation because the Enemies rely on DPS in order to deal Damage.

 

however, say, 50% Damage Reduction would be Damage Mitigation against all forms of incoming Damage.

 

 

reducing speed is therefore Damage Mitigation against Enemies that rely on shooting quickly.

[Sanjyushi]

Ah. I see where you are coming from. I'm so used to enemies one shotting me in the void that I forgot that enemy DPS was a thing (in contrast to damage per hit.)

I'm sorry, please don't hurt me ._.

[Azawarau]

Well, taiiat, isn't that contradictory?

Yes, Mprime reduces shooting by 75% theoretically.

But, let's look at at this way:

If an enemy hits you, they are still dealing the exact same damage with or without Prime. Therefore, it wouldnt be any less effective. It jut happens at a laesser rate. And at this point, wouldn't you yourself say that Mprime is avoiding damage, rather than reducing it?

Its still damage damage mitigation in this case

 

It is my opinion that Molecular Prime has too much going on. I dont think that any of it's parts are OP, but I do think that the parts, while working in tandem, are OP. Not only can you slow any enemy to a standstill (and this was before the advent of Transient Fortitude). This is extraordinarily powerful, even moreso with Infested Impedance, but it is a double edged sword, in that the missions tend to take forever and a day to complete. I'm worried much less about the easy factor, and much more about the time. On the same spectrum, negative power strength makes gameplay much more difficult with her. Sure, it's great damage, but theres always some give and take with this power.

To be fair

 

The slowing the gamr thing mostly applies to earlier levels where enemies dont hit too hard

 

A bit higher up the damage mitigation and slow factor more than speed the game up

 

Add an irradiating loki and you have a ball game

[.Re-light.]

I am all for challenge, but this time, I have to disagree. Molecular Prime is powerful, no question about it. However where do you draw the line?

 

  What about Radial Disarm, Chaos, Stomp, Vortex, Bastille, Tentacle Swarm, Tornado, Radial Javelin, Reckoning.

 

    Any of these abilities will give new players the addictive rush of power, and still give old players tools to pursue their 100 waves of defense or n hours of survival. Any of these abilities don't care whether enemy level is 1 or 1001. At least the CC component of them.

 

Nova is glass. Sure, a lot more frames are, but she cannot became invisible or survive with her personal damage mitigation. She relies on enemies being slow. You can mod her to make them just 30% slower or you can mod her to make it 75%. However, try 30% slow and tell me how far did you come in any T4 mission. In another words there are already options. The slow wave has travel time, and if all you do is just spam it, if you don't have a "copter for life 1337 squad" you will inadvertently be a bigger hindrance then help to your squad.

 

 Where do you draw the line?

 

   Should we radically nerf all CC abilities in the name of challenge? Make it so that 5 waves of defense is hard, 10 almost impossible? Old players playing shorter missions in that tempo will just have the repetitiveness  of it all draw them from the game faster. New players have problems staying alive even with all the tools through abilities at their disposal, as they are.

 

 Game is easy on the start because are weapons are just that strong, but let enemies hit you in T4 anything right from the start.

 

You won't be standing on your feet for long.

 

IMO, she is good as is, I don't want this game to start devolving into running from cover to cover.

 

I signed up and got addicted to mass carnage, gore and semi godlike possibilities of characters.

 

So I vote a definitive No to your changes OP, or any changes at this time to Nova in games current state.

 

If you have a problem with Nova, you can always do what I do.I simply avoid games with Loki or Vauban and let others have their fun.

[Azawarau]

I am all for challenge, but this time, I have to disagree. Molecular Prime is powerful, no question about it. However where do you draw the line?

Thats an easy enough argument

 

I draw the line where powers like novas not only bypass other by far but also trivialize current content

 

Also alot of your argument hinges on her M prime being her only good skill as if she cant run and gun effectively with her 1,2 and 3 while still be useful for the team

 

Alot of comparisons like this come from the press4towin saryn comparison that makes powers like saryns that can simply wipe enemies away more pwoerful by comparison tro novas who is extremely useful early on but made to look like lesser because of another frame

 

If that frame werent there nova would equally trivialize enemies where saryns ult falls off over time aside from her stun utility over time

[Awazx]

[shoryukensama]

unless you can propose a change or actual numbers or suggestion to change nova's abilities , i would suggest u play dark souls for more challenge and stop playing warframe XD

[ThePresident777]

The core of the game is trivializing content.  Let's take a good close look at it again because this point has been missed.

 

Warframe: Developer Q&A , Answer to Question 4: "The core is the 4 guys against a massive army.  And, generally speaking, they are devastating. The core is not something like in Gears of War where the one on one is something a bit more balanced.  One Space Ninja against a whole ship of Grineer is the idea.  But, that needs to be balanced by boss battles, and by like desperate scenarios.  But, generally speaking, the whole idea of it, even an old ninja (right?) is that the untrained militia get devastated by a single one."

 

The spawn rates are nerfed.  They do not provide the massive army The Core game play requires for devastation.  Many Warframe are nerfed to not be able to satisfy The Core game play.

 

Warframe has been destroyed and PodFrame, DarkSoulsFrame, ExtracreditsFrame and other garbage has been shoved into it's husk, all in the name of "balance" which was specifically rejected at the outset for The Core of Warframe..

Edited January 24, 2015 by ThePresident777

[.Re-light.]

Thats an easy enough argument

 

I draw the line where powers like novas not only bypass other by far but also trivialize current content

 

Also alot of your argument hinges on her M prime being her only good skill as if she cant run and gun effectively with her 1,2 and 3 while still be useful for the team

 

Alot of comparisons like this come from the press4towin saryn comparison that makes powers like saryns that can simply wipe enemies away more pwoerful by comparison tro novas who is extremely useful early on but made to look like lesser because of another frame

 

If that frame werent there nova would equally trivialize enemies where saryns ult falls off over time aside from her stun utility over time

 

 Did you read the rest or hurried up to write your follow up?

 

My entire post was only directed to OP, who should be reading responses in their entirety on his own subject anyway.

 

Let's just kill CC in general and play run and gun, hm?

[Sanjyushi]

Thats an easy enough argument

I draw the line where powers like novas not only bypass other by far but also trivialize current content

Also alot of your argument hinges on her M prime being her only good skill as if she cant run and gun effectively with her 1,2 and 3 while still be useful for the team

Alot of comparisons like this come from the press4towin saryn comparison that makes powers like saryns that can simply wipe enemies away more pwoerful by comparison tro novas who is extremely useful early on but made to look like lesser because of another frame

If that frame werent there nova would equally trivialize enemies where saryns ult falls off over time aside from her stun utility over time

1, 2, and 3?

Lol. Let me tell you why that's wrong.

Nullstar is crap. There is no way around it. It sucks. Its bad. Its so bad, it helps enemies out more so than you. Don't even question this.

Antimatter drop is good. Very good. And it is, in my opinion, Nova's core skill. However, the range is dead locked at 20 meters and it's pretty slow. For anyone that's played warframe for over 30 seconds, they'll know 20 meters in WF is about equivilent to 7 meters IRL. So, i would like you to try to use AMD to kill a mob without Mprime. You know, if enemies dont run out of the range by the time you finally contact a surface. You kno, if you manage to survive shooting the AMD without getting killed. You know, if yo actually manage to play as a host and not a client where AMD Is glitchy as hell and works approximately 5% of the time.

And Wormhole. This is a nice skill. A travelin skill. But please show me how in th world Wormhole is going to consistenly save you from dying w/o Mprime post 40 min T4S.

YOU are the one acting as if we do not understand how this frame works. Please do some proper research before implying such things.

You see, its not that we don't know how to play without MPrime. Nova isn't a one-trick pony. Its just that Mprime is simply, the most consistent skill in her arsenal.

Edited January 24, 2015 by Sanjyushi

[Azawarau]

 Did you read the rest or hurried up to write your follow up?

 

My entire post was only directed to OP, who should be reading responses in their entirety on his own subject anyway.

 

Let's just kill CC in general and play run and gun, hm?

It doesnt matter who you were talking to

 

Its an open forum and i replied to you

 

1, 2, and 3?

Lol. Let me tell you why that's wrong.

Nullstar is crap. There is no way around it. It sucks. Its bad. Its so bad, it helps enemies out more so than you. Don't even question this.

Antimatter drop is good. Very good. And it is, in my opinion, Nova's core skill. However, the range is dead locked at 20 meters and it's pretty slow. For anyone that's played warframe for over 30 seconds, they'll know 20 meters in WF is about equivilent to 7 meters IRL. So, i would like you to try to use AMD to kill a mob without Mprime. You know, if enemies dont run out of the range by the time you finally contact a surface. You kno, if you manage to survive shooting the AMD without getting killed. You know, if yo actually manage to play as a host and not a client where AMD Is glitchy as hell and works approximately 5% of the time.

And Wormhole. This is a nice skill. A travelin skill. But please show me how in th world Wormhole is going to consistenly save you from dying w/o Mprime post 40 min T4S.

YOU are the one acting as if we do not understand how this frame works. Please do some proper research before implying such things.

You see, its not that we don't know how to play without MPrime. Nova isn't a one-trick pony. Its just that Mprime is simply, the most consistent skill in her arsenal.

Youre under the assumption im thinking nova is a one trick pony? She isnt and thats actually a big part of the issue here

 

I was pointing out that she does ell iwth her other powers so this is all irrelevant to anything ive said

 

Focusing on her 4 here rather than other powers that i didnt say or imply were bad

[vaugahn]

-snip-

 

You realize that even a game where you take on armies has to be balanced, right? Right? Or do you not know what balance is?

 

Spouting the same three points over and over again does not lend your argument legitimacy.

[(PSN)SofeSNBR]

Yeah good luck getting this one pass, first reason is seen here right now, ppl defend this to death and second so does DE. Sure they can nerf the F*** out others, but nova, frame who can do literally millions damage and slow enemies so much that it makes slow-mo look sped-up footage?

No @(*()$ way we are gonna nerf that, in fact we will buff that. 

 

They give you same "defence" what ppl here gave, dont play as her or play missions where she is. Yeah, what a great solution, i allready do that(heck earlier today i was playing pluto sechura and as soon nova prime appeared, everyone excluding nova prime player wanted to leave in right next reward table) and its not fun to be forced to leave every other mission nor that isnt solution for problem. But that will be always solution for this.

 

So i would suggest to follow this "great advice" dont play as her(in case you are wondering, no i dont have her and this is the reason) or dont play games where she is, cuz she is never getting nerfed, never. Or just suckit up and enjoy the ultimate sleepfest everytime.

Edited January 24, 2015 by (PS4)SofeSNBR

[Azawarau]

Yeah good luck getting this one pass, first reason is seen here right now, ppl defend this to death and second so does DE. Sure they can nerf the F*** out others, but nova, frame who can do literally millions damage and slow enemies so much that it makes slow-mo look sped-up footage?

No @(*()$ way we are gonna nerf that, in fact we will buff that. 

 

They give you same "defence" what ppl here gave, dont play as her or play missions where she is. Yeah, what a great solution, i allready do that(heck earlier today i was playing pluto sechura and as soon nova prime appeared, everyone excluding nova prime player wanted to leave in right next reward table) and its not fun to be forced to leave every other mission nor that isnt solution for problem. But that will be always solution for this.

 

So i would suggest to follow this "great advice" dont play as her(in case you are wondering, no i dont have her and this is the reason) or dont play games where she is, cuz she is never getting nerfed, never. Or just suckit up and enjoy the ultimate sleepfest everytime.

Thats not a solution at all

 

If were to stay quiet then were just allowing it to continue and spread

 

Nova is too often used as the basis of comparison as if shes the standard for balancing when shes the one who most pushes the game out of order

[shoryukensama]

would it be better to just change it to a nuke like the rest? surely nerfing nova for the sake of challenge isnt the real reason behind any of this argument. 

what is it about mprime that u hate so much? 

would it be better to remove its slow debuff? damage buff? or just plain reduce the buff durations? 

what about other players that enjoy playing as nova?  

that does not want any of the elitist challenge stuff that you want? screw them as long as you enjoy yourself? 

if you like a challenge so much then play solo. not enough? dont use any mods. nerfing nova wont give you more challenge. 

[Azawarau]

that does not want any of the causal challenge stuff that you want? screw them as long as you enjoy yourself? 

Reversible easily

 

There are plenty of casual options

 

And plenty of play where you can do so casually with or without Nova

 

Turning the only shot at engaging gameplay into casual play is not the way to go about that

 

If you cant to pay casually you can run 20 minutes of a tiered mission or run the entire star chart

 

You can have your power fantasy as well that way

 

The issue is that its leaving less option for the already little to no challenge the game has

 

If youre going to pose that argument be prepared to look like a hypocrite

[(PSN)SofeSNBR]

Thats not a solution at all

 

If were to stay quiet then were just allowing it to continue and spread

 

Nova is too often used as the basis of comparison as if shes the standard for balancing when shes the one who most pushes the game out of order

It shouldnt be solution, but it always will be. DE surely wont do anything about it. Because they think she is fine as  she is now and they are afraid to change it because these ppl who defend her.

 

Yet ironically, some of them have pretty surely said excabros radial javelin is OP because its doesnt require LoS.  Sure, pure dmg dealing ability wich loses its shininess as soon certain heavy units appear on certain lvl, now that is OP. My god what DE thought when they did that? But Mprime, ability wich slows them to dead on tracks in almost entire map range for 30secs and makes them explode in chain reaction when certain dmg threshold is achieved? Perfectly balanced. Or antimatter drop(sure there is skill factor in it,but still).....

 

It should be balanced, but it wont be. Meanwhile every other frame gets balanced and nerfed. Sooner or later.

[.Re-light.]

    How about Radial Disarm? How about any form of CC that scales? We got a few augments that mimic Chaos and while Chaos is pretty much perfect in the fact that chaosed enemies are still a threat to you if you get too close or there aren't any other enemies nearby, I would prefer we have some choices when it comes to how the godlike part (the CC) of Warframes is portrayed in actual game play.

 

  Nova is the Michael Bay of Warframe, but she doesn't make the game any more EZ mode then Loki, Nyx, Vauban and other CC frames. She is also original in the way she does it.

 

So, I say bring more Nullifiers type enemies, get challenge that way, not devolve game into just shooting and taking cover.

 

  If you severely lower the effectiveness of M Prime, people will just use other frames, then if nothing else changes, will be discussing nerfing other CC frames very soon.

 

   I don't want a game with 15 variations of Ember like utility to choose from.

Edited January 25, 2015 by ReLight13

[(PSN)SofeSNBR]

    How about Radial Disarm? How about any form of CC that scales? We got a few augments that mimic Chaos and while Chaos is pretty much perfect in the fact that Chaosed enemies are still a threat to you if you get too close or there aren't any other enemies nearby, I would prefer we have some choices when it comes to how the godlike part (the CC) of Warframes is portrayed in actual game play.

 

  Nova is the Michael Bay of Warframe, but she doesn't make the game any more EZ mode then Loki, Nyx, Vauban and other CC frames. She is also original in the way she does it.

 

So, I say bring more Nullifiers type enemies, get challenge that way, not devolve game into just shooting and taking cover.

Lokis disarms still makes enemies to be threat even with augment and it just stuns infested, very shortly  if it is little ones. In order lokis disarm to work its fullest you need vauban to throw vortex. And in order vaubans vortex to work fullest you need loki disarm shooters. Yes it is super easy mode, but they need each others to achieve that.

 

Do nova need others? take strong weapon and aside others being there as other targets to enemies shoot at, no she doesnt.

 

And how would nerfing nova devolve game take cover and shoot game?

Edited January 25, 2015 by (PS4)SofeSNBR

[fatpig84]

No need major ner%&^e.

Just modify enemy movement speed, but not their shooting speed or attack speed will be sufficient.

 

Face it, her biggest damage mitigation is because enemies shoot so slow. 
So not only does it slow em to a crawl, it reduces the enemy DPS as well.

Separating movement speed and attack speed will help a lot.

 

 

Also you don't get bone headed Nova users (like me sometimes) bringing speed nova by accident and end up killing my lowbie team due to Corrupted Bombards firing 3 rockets a second.

 

There win win ?

Edited January 25, 2015 by fatpig84

[.Re-light.]

And how would nerfing nova devolve game take cover and shoot game?

 

  If they weren't that slow, you would spend most time hiding behind cover. Then say good bye to flying around with directional melee and doing trick shots. Radial disarm still makes game super easy, 1 sec stun it gives means you can always get out, and non of enemies are fast as Loki.

 

    

 

No need major ner%&^e.

Just modify enemy movement speed, but not their shooting speed or attack speed will be sufficient.

 

 This would be hilarious to see, Corrupted bombards would turn into a full auto guided missiles turret.

 

  Ok, I'm starting to realize where you're coming from. Op as in no drawbacks.

 

How about this then, works on all units, except  shielded units? Including units that have shields thanks to drones.

 

Boom, bad vs Corpus, good vs Infested, good vs Grineer, and still a help in the Void? Requires another frame to be really effective there. Hm?

Edited January 25, 2015 by ReLight13

[shoryukensama]

Reversible easily

 

There are plenty of casual options

 

And plenty of play where you can do so casually with or without Nova

 

Turning the only shot at engaging gameplay into casual play is not the way to go about that

 

If you cant to pay casually you can run 20 minutes of a tiered mission or run the entire star chart

 

You can have your power fantasy as well that way

 

The issue is that its leaving less option for the already little to no challenge the game has

 

If youre going to pose that argument be prepared to look like a hypocrite

i know right, easily reversible , so why use that as argument?

what about players that arent seeking challenge and want to blow stuff up ?

wasnt that the topic ?

[foxxess]

I don't get you sir. While Nova's sole purpose is to deal damage and crowd control or speed things up, there are currently 2 or more frames that are masters in avoiding damage. Do you understand? You don't have to deal damage to survive. It is all about your favourite game mode and playstyle. You were talking about Intercept and Defense, but what about other game modes?

There is currently someone who's running solo Survival Missions for over 4 hours. I hardly imagine how he managed to do that, but I am certain that he does not kill the enemies past 2 hrs, at least with damage. I am guessing he is using either Limbo or Loki.

[Kayblis]

Next up: Chaos shouldn't do what it does its too good

Rhino stomp shouldn't slow them down

Bastille shouldn't put them in the air

etc etc

 

All I read from OPs post is "please remove all kind of CC" and I can only tell you that maybe,just maybe warframe isn't a game for you if you have issues with this.