Nerfing Nova For The Sake Of Challenging Missions.

[Azawarau]

i know right, easily reversible , so why use that as argument?

what about players that arent seeking challenge and want to blow stuff up ?

wasnt that the topic ?

I wasnt the one that used it

 

And the topic is about Nova making end game too easy to the point where other frames by comparison are nearing obsolete

 

I don't get you sir. While Nova's sole purpose is to deal damage and crowd control or speed things up, there are currently 2 or more frames that are masters in avoiding damage. Do you understand? You don't have to deal damage to survive. It is all about your favourite game mode and playstyle. You were talking about Intercept and Defense, but what about other game modes?

There is currently someone who's running solo Survival Missions for over 4 hours. I hardly imagine how he managed to do that, but I am certain that he does not kill the enemies past 2 hrs, at least with damage. I am guessing he is using either Limbo or Loki.

If you think novas sole purpose is to damage or speed enemies you havnt tried 75% slow

 

That damage mitigation is nearly unmatched

 

Next up: Chaos shouldn't do what it does its too good

Rhino stomp shouldn't slow them down

Bastille shouldn't put them in the air

etc etc

 

All I read from OPs post is "please remove all kind of CC" and I can only tell you that maybe,just maybe warframe isn't a game for you if you have issues with this.

Because each of those damages,mitigates damage, and debuffs all in one at 82 meters

 

Also under the assumption that no frames will be buffed and that everything will spiral into nerfs

 

Youre just spreading useless FUD

[inappropriatename5818]

 

 

EDIT: Please don't resort to saying things like "Well, don't play Nova" or "Leave when a Nova joins" - How does that solve the issue? Ignoring things as they come isn't how problems are resolved and I do appreciate the replies with proper feedback on this topic, thank you. 

 

Yes, I agree, let's make a frame a lot of people really like useless because you don't like her.   

 

You're like the people who complain about "press 4 to win". Nobody is forcing you to play her or play with her.   There's a big difference between a problem with something and YOU having a problem with something.   

 

I don't like Hydroid in my games because he slows everything down with his useless abilities, should we remove tentacle swarm and puddle from him?   

 

You're in an empty parking loot honking at the 1 guy parked there because you wanted to park there.

[(PSN)SofeSNBR]

Next up: Chaos shouldn't do what it does its too good

Rhino stomp shouldn't slow them down

Bastille shouldn't put them in the air

etc etc

 

All I read from OPs post is "please remove all kind of CC" and I can only tell you that maybe,just maybe warframe isn't a game for you if you have issues with this.

Chaos is widely unpredictable, Rhino stomp lasts about 10sec max, bastille has a limit how much it can suspend to air. Loki's disarm still allows enemies smash your brains in, banshee sonic boom only applies enemies in front of her, silence stuns only first batch of enemies in range and sound quake has set range. Radial blind and prism sure greatly impledes enemies, but they still shoot to nearest source of sound. Hydroids hentai only affects set enemies in set range. Zephyr's tornado often wanders off and kicks enemies out of it.  Point being, all these other cc's has limitations, Mprime dont have those things.

[Sloan441]

Ah, I see attempts to homogenize every interesting aspect of the game and make it into Destiny continue unabated.

 

Don't like Nova? Tough, chew harder. Heck, I don't even like her myself all that much, but she is what she is and she shouldn't be a near clone of 24 other warframes. That game is boring and not much worth playing (and called Destiny, not Warframe).

 

Soooo...don't play Nova and if she really gets under your skin that much, quit games she's already in. Then your sensitivities won't be troubled with her bad self.

[Azawarau]

Yes, I agree, let's make a frame a lot of people really like useless because you don't like her.   

 

You're like the people who complain about "press 4 to win". Nobody is forcing you to play her or play with her.   There's a big difference between a problem with something and YOU having a problem with something.   

 

I don't like Hydroid in my games because he slows everything down with his useless abilities, should we remove tentacle swarm and puddle from him?   

 

You're in an empty parking loot honking at the 1 guy parked there because you wanted to park there.

Youre ignoring fairness

[Kasumi-]

Youre ignoring fairness

How is it fair that Nova gets nerfed because YOU don't like her? That's not fairness.

[.Re-light.]

Nova ain't getting nerfed but for the sake of discussion if nerfing her was on DE to do list, I made a suggestion that went passed all.

 

  So, problem = OP because of no drawbacks (even though max range and slow need to be specifically moded for that, but never mind that), simple yet

 

elegant solution:

 

 -It stays the same, working as it is now, BUT has no effect on shielded enemies. Needs another frame to be OP in Void, bad vs Corpus, and good versus Infested and Grineer.

 

Would that balance it out? Thoughts?

[Azawarau]

How is it fair that Nova gets nerfed because YOU don't like her? That's not fairness.

And now youre assuming its because i dont like her as if i dont have a valid reason

 

Also ironically youresaying she shouldnt get nerfed because you do like her with no other reason

 

If youre going to go at it like this youre going to have to try harder than that

[Bouldershoulder]

EDIT: Please don't resort to saying things like "Well, don't play Nova" or "Leave when a Nova joins" - How does that solve the issue? Ignoring things as they come isn't how problems are resolved and I do appreciate the replies with proper feedback on this topic, thank you. 

I like Nova as she is (except a few bugs). Leave her be

[silmarilion6]

Wow Azawaru, you really took over this thread !

 

I've seen your other threads, "nerf this, buff that"... .

 

I'm of the opinion that Nova is fine. Personaly I feel more OP playing Loki. But whatever. There is always going to be that one best frame for solo survival or for other types of tasks. Thinking like you would put us into a endless nerfing cycle.

 

I'd rather say leave Nova, buff others and add more, harder endgame content. That would be much more interesting and more fun.

[Azawarau]

Wow Azawaru, you really took over this thread !

 

I've seen your other threads, "nerf this, buff that"... .

 

I'm of the opinion that Nova is fine. Personaly I feel more OP playing Loki. But whatever. There is always going to be that one best frame for solo survival or for other types of tasks. Thinking like you would put us into a endless nerfing cycle.

 

I'd rather say leave Nova, buff others and add more, harder endgame content. That would be much more interesting and more fun.

Its difficult to create harder end game content when Nova simply slows them toa  crawl

 

The solution has been to literally cancel out powers in small amounts

 

Also its not about whether nova is the best or not. She can be and thats fine

 

What this is about is the gap between her ult and every other ult in the game

 

Also her ult paired with many ults that act as a finishing touch to trivialize the game

 

How are enemies going to handle being slowed by 75% and having no weapons to use? There are nullifiers but that only goes so far

 

At this point we need to look at how powerful her ult is alone and with other powers and balance accordingly

 

Whether or not a frame is the best at something is irrelevant to the topic

[(PSN)OniWarrior]

Molecular Prime should not be nerfed. At least not at the moment. Yes it is overpowered, but is all she really has right now. Before any changes are made to Molecular Prime there first needs to be some improvements/fixes to the rest of her kit.

Null Star as it stands now is nigh on useless, dealing such low damage that it is not worth the energy cost. As I understand it, it used to have a guaranteed stagger on hit, but for some reason was removed. Of MP is to have it's speed debuff reigned in then NS needs that stagger back to give an inherently squishy 'frame some extra defence. If the stagger were reintroduced for a reduction in damage that would be fine, as Nova has other skills for damage.

Next up is the biggest problem, Anti-matter Drop. This skill is excellent in concept, but has been plagued with persistent bugs that DE have been unwilling or unable to fix, making it far too unreliable. The AMD is supposed to slow down when you aim at it so that you can charge it up, but it only works half the time, less if you are a client. When it does slow down half the time it doesn't speed back up again when you stop aiming at it, leading to situations where you can cast MP, outrun your AMD and melee everything to death before your AMD catches up to you.

The other major bug it has is not actually absorbing any damage, a problem that first appeared with the last change/buff to MP. Originally it happened only when playing as a client, but now happens regardless of whether you are host or client.

Wormhole is currently her only skill that is fine as is, but is of little use in combat. It is excellent for traversal when speed is of the essence or relocating to a vantage point before battle, but it is not particularly good as an escape tool. Other mobility skills, such as Slash Dash and Tidal Surge, start you moving instantly, whereas Wormhole has a casting time and then you have to physically move into it. Not only that but it allows enemies to pursue you through it.

So my conclusion is that, yes MP needs some rebalancing, but only after improvements/fixes are made to her 1 and 2 because at the moment MP is her only skill that is both effective AND 100% reliablereliable in battle. To nerf first, fix later is the worst approach to take.

[RealPandemonium]

Wormhole is currently her only skill that is fine as is, but is of little use in combat. It is excellent for traversal when speed is of the essence or relocating to a vantage point before battle, but it is not particularly good as an escape tool. Other mobility skills, such as Slash Dash and Tidal Surge, start you moving instantly, whereas Wormhole has a casting time and then you have to physically move into it. Not only that but it allows enemies to pursue you through it.

Uh, Wormhole is godly during battle.  It's one of the reasons Nova is pretty much the safest frame to play.  In trouble?  Teleport the F*** out of there instantly.  Bring your whole team with you while you're at it!

[Thaumatos]

It's not the same. Infact, it's the total opposite. What we are telling the OP himeself, is that, in fact, he DOES have the choice of not playing Nova, and he should take that goddamn choice instead of whining.

I don't care what the OP says, that's the point of a quote.  I'm talking about what Inez was saying.

 

Forcing a player to drop/add people or kick/leave a game based on a particular playstyle is the same as forcing them to play a specific way.  You're forcing the player to make a choice that s/he would not normally have to make in other games.

 

That doesn't make sense.  If you want to argue that "I play x way" .... then you should be able to argue that you don't have to play with something you disagree with.  Period.  This is why the "play your way" argument doesn't make sense.  You play within the confines of the game.

 

No cheating.

No trolling.

These are the rules: [rules].

Follow them or you're out.

Edited January 25, 2015 by Thaumatos

[IfritKajiTora]

...don't play nova?

Other people plays Nova? spamming molecular prime? :D huh?

Nova is OP as fuq.

Slowing down enemies

Double damage

800 damage by explosion per killed enemy. 10 enemies = 8k damage + double damage = 16k damage

Range of this skill OMG duration is so easy to add you can mod it to take a whole map.

[Thaumatos]

Other people plays Nova? spamming molecular prime? :D huh?

You don't need to respond to those people.

 

They're just using a wrongful argument to support their opinion.  It makes no sense.

 

It's like swimming with a pool of cheaters and then saying: "Well....don't cheat!" ... uh, yeah.  That's going to help.

 

(And for those of you with a below average IQ, I'm not saying Nova = Cheat)

Edited January 25, 2015 by Thaumatos

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

Removed off topic replies.

[Thaumatos]

Removed off topic replies.

The void strikes again!!

 

Has Nova OP'd you?  Has she Anti-mattered you into a slow-moving disposable explosion as well? :p

 

On-topic:  I tend to agree along the lines of a 'decay' in the M-Prime factor.  That'd be an interesting way of improving the difficulty of CC with a DPS frame.  Honestly, she's a DPS frame.  She shouldn't have ultimate CC as well.  It's one or the other man...take a number and sit.

Edited January 25, 2015 by Thaumatos

[Sloan441]

Fair has nothing to do with it.

 

It's about variety and having interesting game mechanics to experiment and play with.

 

Homogeneity = mediocrity, and that's what you're demanding here.

 

Also, the amount of hyperbole in this thead is staggering. I'm not a huge fan of Nova, but I do play her and most of what people are spouting off about is pure BS. She's strong, no question, but she isn't half of what some of the above posters are making her out to be.

[Thaumatos]

Fair has nothing to do with it.

 

It's about variety and having interesting game mechanics to experiment and play with.

 

Homogeneity = mediocrity, and that's what you're demanding here.

 

Also, the amount of hyperbole in this thead is staggering. I'm not a huge fan of Nova, but I do play her and most of what people are spouting off about is pure BS. She's strong, no question, but she isn't half of what some of the above posters are making her out to be.

Regardless.

 

I believe gear should have its own role.  If you're going to choose a DPS-heavy frame, you shouldn't be allowed a good amount of what all other frames have to offer outside of DPS.

 

Nova's CC is pretty substantial.  And her DPS is substantial.  Why is it that she has both when most frames are seen as one or the other?

[ThePresident777]

If It were about variety and interesting mechanics, if it were about challenges, then people would be proposing them.  They would be suggesting enemies, environments, and missions, in other words challenges.  But, it's not about any of that.   It's not about challenges at all.  It's not about balance at all.  If it were about challenges or balance then people would be proposing Desperate Scenarios or Bosses because that is what this game is partially about.

 

Exibit A:

Warframe: Developer Q&A , Answer to Question 4:

The core is the 4 guys against a massive army.  And, generally speaking, they are devastating. The core is not something like in Gears of War where the one on one is something a bit more balanced.  One Space Ninja against a whole ship of Grineer is the idea.  But, that needs to be balanced by boss battles, and by like desperate scenarios.  But, generally speaking, the whole idea of it, even an old ninja (right?) is that the untrained militia get devastated by a single one.

 

 

 

 

Instead, what people are proposing is destroying The Core of the game so it's like everything else, making it not a threat to any competition at all, and making DE reneg on it's claims which will do wonders for it's reputation.  It's a load of gaslight.

Edited January 25, 2015 by ThePresident777

[Azawarau]

Fair has nothing to do with it.

 

It's about variety and having interesting game mechanics to experiment and play with.

 

Homogeneity = mediocrity, and that's what you're demanding here.

 

Also, the amount of hyperbole in this thead is staggering. I'm not a huge fan of Nova, but I do play her and most of what people are spouting off about is pure BS. She's strong, no question, but she isn't half of what some of the above posters are making her out to be.

Variety?

 

Like 80% of defenses having a frost

 

Infested missions being nearly the only place youll see vauban?

 

Mag outside of corpus and corrupted is rare

 

If anything youre limiting variety

 

Thats what happens when things obsolete other things

[rechot]

dont have a nova in your sqaud simple fix

[thisbandisawful]

"a spammable spell that slows enemies, slows enemy attacks, multiplies damage and makes enemies do aoe damage to each other when they die with an enormous area of effect is totally balanced" - pro ace game design, 2015

 

one quote saying 'tenno are going to be more powerful than the baddies' does not excuse a spell that's so obviously far out of line compared to the other tenno spells in the game. you could remove everything but the slow effect and mp'd still be a top-tier spell

 

"don't play with nova" if you can't recognise how an un-nerfed overpowered frame must affect mission and enemy design - and therefore everyone's experience regardless of whether they play nova - you really shouldn't be commenting

 

ahaha no no let's just treble the nullifier spawn rate and increase the hp of their force field until you get the message

[Star]

I think Nova is in a good place right now.

 

Giving MP a fixed speed effect would ruin our ability to play Negative/Speed Nova, which is a whole other level of challenge to the game if you take such a thing into harder missions. Don't ruin that.