Why Does The Void Need To Have It All?

[ZezXion]

I myself enjoy how the void has mostly everything, mainly because not all of us have as much time to play as we'd like, so having one place to level up, get valuable items, etc, is kind of nice. Though I can see how it just being the one place that is best for everything can get a little out of hand, I would say the best way to go about this would be not to remove what it gives, but to make other places do better at giving what the void gives out instead. That way everyone wins.

 

Edit: Though that still doesn't add up, when endless t4 void missions simply end up being more difficult than any other missions in the game because they are just harder, so they are fine.

Edited January 28, 2015 by ZezXion

[Eric1738]

actually the best exp/rep farming is not in the void. but i get your point, void is overall the best place. but is it bad? not really because we still have to get void keys first(though arguably these days void keys are pretty common stuff).

 

still playing void mission again and again might feel boring, so i think instead of only getting void keys, we can also have grineer/corpus keys for their high level high reward missions. i mean i havent played Ceres survival for months. those missions are not easy at all. but the lack of reward makes it irrelevant for me

Edited January 28, 2015 by Eric1738

[Chroia]

Why does the Void need to have it all?

It doesn't have everything.

Only almost everything.

Orokin Cells (barring some reward drops).

Oxium.

Cryoric.

Omega Isotopes.

M. Alad V. Coords.

Vay Hek Beacons.

Corrupted mods.

(Tellurium.)

NEURODES & NEURAL SENSORS.

Edit:

Which isn't to say that I disagree. I don't.

Reward-per-time for just about anything is hugely better in the Void than anywhere else.

(Rep in a preset squad is faster, but if you need to level a frame that won't do you much good (unless leeching).

T1D gives exp, the various Void rewards and is comparatively easy due to built-in funtime troll panic 'laser' buttons.)

'Shame' that I can't usually stomach more than a couple a day, atm.

Edited January 28, 2015 by Chroia

[MA347612890GT4078579132R]

 - Rare mats like Orokin Cells and Argon Crystals

Aside from the fact that Orokin Cells don't drop in the Void, which makes no logical sense, yes I agree with the rest of your post. Though the Void kind of is Warframe's only "End Game" if you will, it's what you do to get all of the good stuff. And it's what you run once you have all the good stuff to get more of the good stuff when more good stuff get's stuffed in.

[Zeromanicus]

Invasions are so boring, i hope they're either 2.0'd or removed. Wouldn't want to have to run it for stuff.

Edited January 28, 2015 by Zeromanicus

[Horonelius]

The way I see it, the Void contains the Orokin Towers, untainted by the time passed since they were all killed by the Tenno. Naturally, Orokin equipment, vastly more advanced than the mundane stuff the Tenno have access to normally.

 

Basically, the final frontier of the final frontier.

Edited January 28, 2015 by Horonelius

[havikryan]

At least Rescue 2.0 gives you specters, so that's a start.

 

Then you're unsure whether you should use them or not because of the mileage problem (they're not free, guys) and the necessity of using them at all and end up hoarding them away.

 

In the end there's not much reason to go back to get them.

what probably also counts is the conclave requirement, I for the life of me cannot use cosmic spectres unless I use a loadout I don't want to use or give to my spectres...

[AtenAngel]

Well said OP

In fact just doing T4S seems the way to go as you get the best return per time invested.

 

Why can't normal missions and specially invasions have something at that level of rewards?

 

Well said

[OkamiMilo]

Yeah let's put all the resourses in normal mission. 

 

Hm, i think is not work in that way.

[Tsoe]

But don't we LIKE having 250 absolutely pointless map nodes?

 

yes we do

 

but wait... should that explain why player base is so shatered? and why we are forced to play solo in regular node (cause you know 250...)

[Karlox]

Aside from the fact that Orokin Cells don't drop in the Void, which makes no logical sense[...]

You didn't play T3 Survival recently, did you?

[mcKentucky]

Also explains why many players didn't unlock all nodes.

[Oranji]

Imo invasions should be a defense mission if ur siding with say a Corpus defending from Grineer attacks and instead of repeating it 5 times, you get the invasion reward from reaching a specific number of waves.

[ThePresident777]

I find that void Defense and Interception give better ducats fodder and rep than any other void mission.  If one wants multi-shot mods, defense is the way to go, I have found.  Interception is the best mission for rep.  Etc.  That skews the game play choice because players have to choose between having fun and getting rewards/loot/affinity, the get, the goodies, the shiney, etc.,  Call it what  you will.

 

Players who can tolerate farming do not care about game play.  They will farm anything.  They have no incentive to buy plat because they are zombie farmers, figuratively speaking.  If it drops someday, somewhere, they have no incentive to buy plat.  They have no incentive to invest in the game if they can farm it.  They can farm anything with a drop rate no matter how small the drop rate.

 

Players who do not care for the shiney for whatever reason will just play their preferred game play no matter what the goodies are.  So the reward/loot/affinity structure doesn't matter to them.  It doesn't impact their decision to buy plat.  They buy plat for reasons other than RNG.  So, there has to be something other than RNG for them to invest in the game.

 

The players that will buy plat and care about game play are the ones that are disincentivized by having the goodies be game play dependent.  If they are not having fun, they will not invest in the game.

 

I think the best scenario is for goodies to be game play neutral.  Then people play the game play they want instead of quitting the game out of boredom or becoming zombie farmers and toughing it out.

 

Maybe I imply too much by the phrase game play.  What I have in mind is missions, factions, enemy units, and locations.

 

In one of the recent devstreams (#44?), DE said something to the effect that player angst over one location implies that there is too much in that location.  If that is true, it also implies that there is not enough in the other locations, otherwise, more players would be there too rather than all clumped in one spot.

 

But, that is true of players that have less attachment to particular game play.  Even if the shiney were perfectly evenly distributed, there will still be player clumps because of personal preferences for game play.   So, an even distribution of players across game play cannot be achieved mearly by making goodies evenly distributed.

Even distribution of players across game play is not possible for the same reason that some forms of game play are more profitable than others.  The demand for game play is not even distributed so that will not be reflected in the player base under any circumstance unless the game has limited appeal.

 

The value of even distribution of goodies is that it prevents the players as a group from fracturing along goodies/gameplay fault lines in the worst way, which is players that play the game and those who do not. 

Edited January 28, 2015 by ThePresident777

[Second_Measure]

Yeah let's put all the resourses in normal mission. 

 

Hm, i think is not work in that way.

 

Who said they should be implemented in 'normal' missions?

They could be alert rewards or syndicate missions could offer prime parts for their most dedicated members.

Or maybe Spy 2.0 could have them, too.

Edited January 28, 2015 by Second_Measure

[Goosmo]

The real question. Why does the void have so many chairs?

Extra real question. Why does the void have no tables for the chairs?

[WaRDeMoN787]

Invasion give from 10 to 35k.

A couple of planets give Oro-Cells.

Normal gaming drop rare cores.

 

Outside of Forma and Argon, the rest is currently in game.

Invasions also offer the chance to get the G3 or Harvester to attack you, which gives you weapon parts in the long run.

[Mak_Gohae]

....

 

that's not what anyone is ever talking about. the only things that the Void only has, would be Prime Components.

the rest, is not that you can't get it elsewhere, but that it's just superior in the Void in all aspects, no questions asked.

 

a Void Misison of any Type, is more efficient Credits than an Invasion. if you played a Defense, Survival, or Interception to get a bundle of Keys, and then ran them all, you'd have gotten many more Credits for your time spent. because each Void Key awards as many Credits as an Invasion does, if not more.

 

 

i prefer Ceres if i wanted to 'grind' Orokin Cells for some reason, but you still often get some in Void. basically the same here, a lowish rate of getting some.

 

 

yes, you get Rare Fusion Cores once in a while from Enemies. however by the time you average one Rare Fusion Core, you could have 10, even 15 of them from Void.

though frankly, two Uncommon Fusion Cores is likely to drop before you get a single Rare, and those two Uncommon Fusion Cores contains more fusion Energy than the Rare one.

 

however, for 'Fusion Energy per Minute / Mission' as a ratio equation, it's definitely higher in the Void. quite a bit higher.

 

 

and here's the same statement again, to make sure i'm being crystal clear.

the rest, is not that you can't get it elsewhere, but that it's just superior in the Void in all aspects, no questions asked.

the rest, is not that you can't get it elsewhere, but that it's just superior in the Void in all aspects, no questions asked.

 

And that has to do with the fact that you have to farm a key to get into the missions vs not doing anything and the mission being there for you to do at any point.

There has to be a reason why players are going to farm for the keys. If the Void offers nothing then what's the point of the void?

 

The real probable reason for this idea is pretty much the reason for half of the feedback on this board, it's so easy to get a key now that people dont even feel like bothering any more.  Dont feel like being "forced" to do this "chore" so make it even easier.

[Bibliothekar]

Invasions also offer the chance to get the G3 or Harvester to attack you, which gives you weapon parts in the long run.

Until you got them both, at which point they are not interesting any longer. I could build both AkBrakk and AkDetron with the stuff I have around ...

[WaRDeMoN787]

Until you got them both, at which point they are not interesting any longer. I could build both AkBrakk and AkDetron with the stuff I have around ...

I mean...obviously everyone eventually get the rewards, I was simply adding the benifits to the list of what invasions can offer. 

[-InV-igo95862]

Invasion give from 10 to 35k.

 

You need to complete invasion missions five times to get the reward. Meanwhile completing T1 void missions five times gives you 50 000 credits.

[Deus_X_Machina]

Reward distribution is really quite screwed.

It even starts before considering the Void.

 

Normal Endless vs non-endless missions:

All Endless Type missions are hugely favored above the non endless types.

 

Normal endless missions can provide Void keys. Keys bring you in the Void. The Void is sought after. So, the goto for many people is endless type missions.

Normal endless missions also provide additional rewards along the way. Usually around every 5 minutes, depending on mission type and playstyle maybe more often. Among that are pretty rare mods.

Interception is endless and has a special place: Its the only mission type rewarding T4 keys (As fas as I know).

 

On the other side, we have  non endless missions:

Reward: Usually nothing worth speaking about. In the long run you might get a few more credits out of it, if you constantly run one type, but it evens out with special drops of endless missions, that you can sell.

Only Rescue 2.0 has a special place, but the reward isn't widley used, and so not that attracting.

 

Possible Solutions for normal endless vs. non-endless missions:

What could be done for example:

 

Distribute keys more. It isn't even clear why they are in the endless missions. I mean, why do we get them there? They should be in more missions than normal endless ones, but better protected, think Raid 2.0, but intertwined with other missions. like a chance that the possibility to get one comes up in all missions, like a sidetrack.

 

Also Caches could be featured in more missions, and provide side rewards to the main mission reward. It would be announced occasionally that there is one in this mission, and it could contain minor useful things (Like a Rare resource, a key, a ducat, 10.000+ Credits (Really, the smaller amounts are ridiculus, considering the usual time spent searching compared to running another mission) or whatever else someone of that faction deemed worth enough to put in a cache.

 

The upcoming Spy 2.0. Concept could be used to protect such sidetracks, for example. You don't make it through good enough, you lose the rewards, but main mission stands.

 

The possibility of timed missions came to my mind (like the one in the starting quest chain), where you have to reach a side goal within a timeframe of the main mission. that could feature additional / slightly bigger rewards.

 

Thats one side of the story, creating imbalance in popultaions between normal missions (usually its easy to find people for defense / survival / etc., but hard for all others)

 

 

Void missions:

On the other side we have the void.

The endless vs. non endless problem is the same here, only in other ways:

 

endless: You get multiple rare parts for using one key, doing the same thing against harder and harder enemies.

non endless: You get one rare part per key (recently, for a short time, averted by caches for one mission type, but that hasn't been fixed till now)

 

The important thing is: It seems balanced for how hard your enemies are, more or less, but not how long it takes to get a key and how long it takes to run a mission.

 

 

So one part of reward balance should be to make other game modes other than endless ones more attractive here too.

 

The second one is, to take things out of the void, to make normal missions more attractive.

 

+) Credits: What did they do with the same credits as today in the void? I am sure its outdated, or they used Forma as currency, or Orokin, or whatever. Its not convenietn, but credits could be removed from the void as first step.

+) Keys: Keys as a requirement for void, are a pain if they are rewarded in the void. They could be, for example in endless missions in some rotations (but NOT C), but should not exist as rewards in missions with no other rewards. I'd vote for completly taking them out of the void though.

+) Materials: While its nice to get some rare materials in the void, the void should be the place for some SPECIAL materials, but not the ususla source for other ones you get elsewhere too (Like Orokin Cells, although it doesn't really make that much sense lorewise)

 

-) Definitly not Forma: Since Forma is THE visual defining thing of the Void structures, its hard to take it out of it.

-) Prime Parts should only rarely be featured in normal missions, I think - and only randomly (for example in side tracks). But since the Grineer seem to raid the Void, it can be argued, that they also bring parts they find out of the void with them. Which is where we could take those from the Grineer.

 

 

Thats a few of my thoughts to reward distribution, overall.

[Edit: I can't guess the code for spoilers at the moment, to make it more readable, would be nice to have that visible in the "full edit mode" somewhere]

Edited February 1, 2015 by Deus_X_Machina

[Drejzer]

Well...

Some of the prime parts could be put into something like a global drop-table (for a faction Planet, perhaps?) that has a possibility of a random mission yielding a prime-part...

[(PSN)YankeeClippah]

If prime parts hit the solar system there need to be requirements to cut down on the taxi begging that will come from it

[CedarDpg]

If prime parts hit the solar system there need to be requirements to cut down on the taxi begging that will come from it

 

If prime parts hit the solar system on normal nodes, they could just make it so that those nodes only drop prime parts for the individual if they have that node already unlocked or perhaps it's something where all nodes on that moon/planet/etc. must be complete before it will drop prime parts.