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Strict Nat: Improvements And Testing

[DE]Glen

By [DE]Glen,
in Developer Workshops

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taiiat

taiiat

Posted
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Because going into another program, pasting it, copying it, then pasting into what you need isn't an extra step.

i clearly stated i have an extension that manages this.

here's the keyword - it's automatic.

 

an exact quote.

i flip back and forth between a Utility Plugin to copy without Formatting, or pasting into a plain text editor and copying back out of it to drop the formatting.

the Utility Plugin automatically manages things for my Clipboard. i store longer things like Threads i'm writing up in a Text Editor since i know i can't trust the WYSIWYG Editor to parse any of it right and i'll probably need to Edit 5 times in 30 seconds of creating those Threads.

 

 

-snip-

i feel like you quoted the wrong person but that information is correct.

 

i shall clarify. the Proxy Servers should be working for Invited Sessions as well as Matchmaking.

that is the intention, so use that information.

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Uhkretor

Uhkretor

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Posted (edited)

(...)

i clearly stated i have an extension that manages this.

here's the keyword - it's automatic.

(...)

an exact quote.

(...)

the Utility Plugin automatically manages things for my Clipboard. i store longer things like Threads i'm writing up in a Text Editor since i know i can't trust the WYSIWYG Editor to parse any of it right and i'll probably need to Edit 5 times in 30 seconds of creating those Threads.

(...)

i feel like you quoted the wrong person but that information is correct.

(...)

i shall clarify. the Proxy Servers should be working for Invited Sessions as well as Matchmaking.

that is the intention, so use that information.

 

I have the feeling that this topic is swinging between "Clipboards and Text Editors" and its proper intended subject which is "StrictNAT and how to mitigate and/or solve it".

 

"Proxy Servers should be working for invited Sessions as well as Matchmaking"... Well, its supposed to work for invited sessions and Matchmaking but~... its not. It only seems to be working with Public Matchmaking only, while pretty much the same amount of fellow players with this problem are still getting that problem with no changes whatsoever.

I'm not saying that the intention of the experimental hotfix is to stay on Public Matchmaking only, I believe that its meant to work on all possible Matchmaking types... But the thing is, it isn't. Unfortunately, I'm one of the players from that minority and this is problematic. Like I said, when I'm running missions this isn't a problem... It begins to be a problem when "socialization" is involved which is when I have to deal with other fellow players, be it by helping them on a particular mission or by trading.

I'm going to do another test with my fellow Clan members concerning Relays and see if the problem manifests itself there or not, like it happens with the Dojo. I'll share the results of the testing here since I already know which ones are affected by this~... problem.

 

------------------------------- X ------------------------------

 

... Like I suspected, it doesn't affect Relays at all. Just had one of the fellow members that gives "Failed to join session" and he entered the same Relay instance as me... Of course, there is only a single instance per Relay...

Edited by Uhkretor
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[DE]Glen

[DE]Glen

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I think "maybe" the proxy only works when pub matchmaking but doesn't work with direct invitations to squad. I'm really getting alot of "failed to join session" when trying to join people on the recruitment or trying to trade on dojo.

 

It's enabled for everything except host election -- we won't elect someone to be the host if they're behind a proxy because it would mean lag for everyone. 

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[DE]Glen

[DE]Glen

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... Like I suspected, it doesn't affect Relays at all. Just had one of the fellow members that gives "Failed to join session" and he entered the same Relay instance as me... Of course, there is only a single instance per Relay...

 

If you can't connect to relays you've got bigger problems than NAT- they are dedicated servers on public IP addresses (ie: no NAT). 

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[DE]Glen

[DE]Glen

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Like ACorpse said, I have all required ports opened and I still get the "Please redirect ports xxxx & yyyy to <whatever>" message. If the needed ports are opened, that message shouldn't even appear at all. So, like ACorpse said, it would really be helpful to know -exactly- what Warframe really needs in order to fully work.

 

It's telling you -exactly- what Warframe really needs in order to fully work.

 

If it's complaining about Strict NAT it means the system is fighting with one hand tied behind its back.

 

*All other errors mean you're going to have problems.*

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Velym

Velym

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Posted

It's telling you -exactly- what Warframe really needs in order to fully work.

 

If it's complaining about Strict NAT it means the system is fighting with one hand tied behind its back.

 

*All other errors mean you're going to have problems.*

 

#enjoyban on the forums. :p

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aoguro

aoguro

Posted
Posted (edited)

It's telling you -exactly- what Warframe really needs in order to fully work.

 

If it's complaining about Strict NAT it means the system is fighting with one hand tied behind its back.

 

*All other errors mean you're going to have problems.*

 

 

ok, some information more about ipv4 and ipv6

 

as i used a 50 mbit line (no glasfibre), the nat problem was solved at my connection the moment i forwarded everything via my modem (even the provider explained me that this was a ipv4-protocol, as faar as my understanding goes, and my provider told me since the 100 mbit i have ipv6 only)

 

since i started with 100 mbit glassfibre the nat-problem IS BACK, sometimes it works, sometimes not (according to get in connection with other players for a mission or invitations)

 

my provider and the technicians from the modem-company say the same, i need a clean clear ipv6 signal from DE

 

can i have a answer to this, glen ? thank you

 

ps: as for example, why i dont have this conn-troubles when i play the crew from ubisoft or whatever other game ? =)

 

would be interesting what de-specialists say about, im waiting since a long time for a clear answer =)

 

i really dont know what i can say more, oh, wait, your art director told us in the last dev-streaming that de will fix the nat-troubles in 2015 =)

 

was that a promise ?

Edited by VOR73X
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Uhkretor

Uhkretor

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No, that's the thing. We all can connect to the same Relay instance.

 

We simply can't connect to each others. So either the game needs more than what it tells the players, or the current game network code either isn't suited or is incomplete.

 

... This being said because I have all the requirements on my router for the game to communicate properly.

 



It's telling you -exactly- what Warframe really needs in order to fully work.

 

If it's complaining about Strict NAT it means the system is fighting with one hand tied behind its back.

 

*All other errors mean you're going to have problems.*

 

Well, that -exactly- isn't working. So it really isn't fighting with one hand tied behind its back. Its trying to fight while under excessive bondage, because even with the ports opened on both "UDP-IN/OUT" and "TCP-IN/OUT" it refuses to work properly.

 

Is there something else I need to do? Should I disable my firewalls, or they simply don't interfere with the connection attempts?

 

--------------- x ---------------

 

Know what? I'm going to stop now. It worked nicely before by letting the rest of the community troubleshoot the thing rather than having the luxury of jumping in myself. I'll let myself back into that system. If it suddently starts working properly, I'm going to throw fireworks down at the street...

Edited by Uhkretor
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Faulcun

Faulcun

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I suppose you could try to DMZ the rig you are playing on. If you stop having issues, then you know its a setting or configuration in your network. While at the same time, if you continue to have issues, it could still be on your end, or somewhere else... so that doesnt really help except for the chance that you can at least confirm a problem on your side if the problems clear up.

 

But again, even if you still have problems with DMZ, that doesnt eliminate your side either

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Uhkretor

Uhkretor

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I suppose you could try to DMZ the rig you are playing on. If you stop having issues, then you know its a setting or configuration in your network. While at the same time, if you continue to have issues, it could still be on your end, or somewhere else... so that doesnt really help except for the chance that you can at least confirm a problem on your side if the problems clear up.

 

But again, even if you still have problems with DMZ, that doesnt eliminate your side either

 

I'll probably just stick the cable directly on my computer and see if the problem persists...

 

... Also, I find it interesting that I can invite, and get invited back, by more players with 'NAT-PMP' option turned off than on... I also like to take the chance to thank whoever was piloting [DE]Kickbot on region chat between 4:15pm and 4:30pm (GMT+0) for the "Car Engine and Roads problem" analogy. I find it fitting because I actually had 'NAT-PMP' turned on and by turning it off, I increased the number of players I can actually invite, and get invited back. Its like grabbing the electric cables powering the cockpit lights and yanking them out... Now back to my little corner, enjoying my Solo missions...

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DawnFalcon

DawnFalcon

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OK for a year I've been thinking it's you guys. I have FULL access to my router, and NATed the ports listed in my warframe settings directly through to my PC (which is on a MAC reservation so always the same IP).

 

Depending on the router...a lot of them don't actually fully forward the ports. (It's complex)

 

Check to see if there's instructions for your specific router to make it work with Xbox Live...then do the same but for Warframe's ports.

 

(If you're really lucky and have say a lot of Thompson routers, this involves telnetting into the router and using commands like "connection bind application=CONE(UDP) port=" - I used to have to do this when I was be Be/Sky, but the BT home hub works fine)

Edited by DawnFalcon
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[DE]Glen

[DE]Glen

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This is what I got after testing with one of my fellow Clan members that gave "Failed to join mission".

 

https://imgur.com/nvhmY8e

 

Any particular reason why the ICMP protocol is even there?

 

Looks like something (a Firewall somewhere? the ISP maybe?) is preventing you from reaching the proxy server on the assigned port. I'm not sure why you can't when thousands of other people can (and are at this very moment).

 

Since you know your way around wireshark maybe we can run some diagnostic tests to see what's going on; if you've got Raidcall swing by channel 9585297 tomorrow.

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taiiat

taiiat

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Any particular reason why the ICMP protocol is even there?

the ICMP Protocol handles Errors.

used by Networking hardware to send... Errors.

 

 

by the by, as most users have a Router type device as well as a Modem, i would recommend having your Modem set to Bridge Mode, to eliminate one point of 'failure' for network traffic.

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[DE]Glen

[DE]Glen

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Actually folks I realized there is one link in the chain that is still vulnerable to shitty routers -- see http://www.brynosaurus.com/pub/net/p2pnat/#SECTION00053000000000000000  if you're curious - we had some luck when we hardened other parts of the network protocol against this abuse but there's one packet type that is still vulnerable to modification. I'll see if I can get this hacked in tomorrow morning in time for the update.

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Kuboy

Kuboy

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Actually folks I realized there is one link in the chain that is still vulnerable to S#&$ty routers -- see http://www.brynosaurus.com/pub/net/p2pnat/#SECTION00053000000000000000  if you're curious - we had some luck when we hardened other parts of the network protocol against this abuse but there's one packet type that is still vulnerable to modification. I'll see if I can get this hacked in tomorrow morning in time for the update.

 

DE_GLEN @(*()&#036; putting in work. Thank you for your hard work!

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Uhkretor

Uhkretor

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... Well... So, if someone else provided such a test with Wireshark, it would be quite possible that such a~... vulnerability(?)... could've been noticed sooner and maybe something about it could've been done about it without being on such a short notice...?

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LisRestall

LisRestall

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Actually folks I realized there is one link in the chain that is still vulnerable to S#&$ty routers -- see http://www.brynosaurus.com/pub/net/p2pnat/#SECTION00053000000000000000  if you're curious - we had some luck when we hardened other parts of the network protocol against this abuse but there's one packet type that is still vulnerable to modification. I'll see if I can get this hacked in tomorrow morning in time for the update.

We really appreciate the efforts, thank you very much! I hope there will be noticeable changes on the update.

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[DE]Glen

[DE]Glen

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... Well... So, if someone else provided such a test with Wireshark, it would be quite possible that such a~... vulnerability(?)... could've been noticed sooner and maybe something about it could've been done about it without being on such a short notice...?

 

Sorry but your capture is likely a completely different issue.

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