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Without bashing Spy 2.0, which I think it's really interesting, I'd like to analize the Stealth approach for it.

I don't think that just an higher reward would promote stealthy gameplay, the gameplay itself should be rewarding to attract people.

Imho to have Stealth gameplay working, there should be a precise split between Action -which is the predominant among all game modes- and Stealth which atm is just optional and borderline even for stealth-based missions.

Actually you can play every mission  in Action or Gun and Run, just few of them can be played in Stealth:

> Action based modes: Assassination, Capture, Deception*, Defense, Excavation, Exterminate*, Hijack, Interception, Mobile Defense, Rescue 2.0*, Sabotage/Hive, Spy*, Survival (9+4)

> Wannabe Stealth based modes: Deception*, Exterminate*, Recovery, Rescue2.0, Spy 2.0. (3+2)

To make Stealth missions working, the Gun and Run play should be punished with a deterrence in favor of Stealth, not the opposite, which happens in the vast majority of game modes. Without being frustrating, of course.


(PS: I can't understand why Assassination isn't properly structured like Spy2.0 to give you the choice of breaking through the enemy defense lines to the VIP target or passing through them by a stealthy way...)

Edited by Burnthesteak87

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Stop working on stealth game modes and work on the stealth system. You're making a house with no foundation, it will crumble up until you get that done and start again.

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Focus is mostly on automated security measures rather than patrolling enemies, unlike the use of wardens in rescue.  Vaults are much smaller and less open than rescue tiles.  Enemies are kept to a minimum, some vaults have no enemies at all.  Vaults can be cracked independently of one another (all three are available from the start), so as a team you can stick together or spread out to cover ground faster.

 

Having to stop, think, maneuver, time parkour, explore and avoid being seen is expected in many vault rooms.

 

I'm curious which part looks similar to hive, perhaps that there are 3 localized objective areas?

Okay, I very much like the concept of Tenno vs. automated defenses. I'll be very happy with a variety of challenges, which would solve the Rescue (x3) assumption. I guess I expected each section to be like the jail (just prettier from the screenshots) and the squad basically dealing with mobs and consoles. If you can make it more puzzle stealth instead of killing stealth like Rescue, that would be cool.

 

As for my dash of Hive comment, it was both the multiple areas you had to go to and the third bullet point in the OP where the items listed seemed very similar to what happens when you destroy a node. Maybe I misread and that was localized to the specific vault and not "turn on all turrets in the level". In the former case, you have to do the same thing three times which means three chances to screw up and the latter (if it does effect the entire level) means there will be a lot of people abandoning missions when something goes wrong early.

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I do not like the fact that is a time-mission, already in some Spy missions where the Data are positioned very far from each other, then you put the time -_- we will never get all the data

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I do not like the fact that is a time-mission, already in some Spy missions where the Data are positioned very far from each other, then you put the time -_- we will never get all the data

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Ugh, another timer mission after you trip the alarm?

 

Didn't you already realize that everybody hates rescue missions? at least the ones with the execution timer.

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Ooooh. Void Spy, hack for Orokin Prime blueprints. I'd hope to get 1 random reward per vault successfully hacked. yesno?

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"WTS maxed hush mod! only 1000p"

 

sounds interesting, tho it also sounds like a nightmare to pug.

 

i dont mind a bit more deus ex in my warframe, honestly, but we will see how much 'loki / ash required' this is.

 

looking forward to it!

Edited by Fubukin
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Now I wonder, are there going to be any nice rewards, credits, mods, or new blueprints to obtain from doing theses missions? I mean with rescue 2.0 we got specter bp. Maybe some new specters to used? Still I hope they fix the kubrow accidently tripping the alarm haha!

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Ugh, another timer mission after you trip the alarm?

 

Didn't you already realize that everybody hates rescue missions? at least the ones with the execution timer.

 

Big time. Always something to screw it up. Even solo.  With a friend, who is nice enough to wait far away from the doors that lead to the area with the cells....they get seen, stealth over.

 

 

My frame is like a magnet, does NOT want to drop through a hole for going stealthy. They refuse and cling to the side for dear life wasting much, much, much time. Alarm goes off and still can't get inside with enough time to hack doors.

 

All in all, unless I really, really, really am in need of some specters. I fully avoid rescue missions. Don't like them at all due to the timer.  

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I want the satisfaction of full stealth missions. Designing the game around oafs adds nothing to the game and only perpetuates the money mill image of F2P. Eyes of Blight is an example of the right direction to go in: take a risk with a radical idea. Eyes of Blight allowed parts of the game to be destroyed. In the case of full stealth, players must cooperate and know what they are doing (whaaat!?). 

 

Add a useful statistic to the player profile: alarms tripped over vaults encountered. Let me set a matchmaking limit based on this ratio. 

 

Maybe there can be training materials and a way to redeem your stealth ratio outside of missions. This could be in-game tutorials, sanctioned YouTube videos, or a training center on the relays. 

 

0LfeXbz.jpg

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I sense an event to introduce spy 2.0, just like how DE did with rescue 2.0

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A Random Unique Boss should pop after or if getting all 3 ... =] infact, most levels should have Random Mini-Bosses.. just to change it up at times.

 

 

Big time. Always something to screw it up. Even solo.  With a friend, who is nice enough to wait far away from the doors that lead to the area with the cells....they get seen, stealth over.

 

 

My frame is like a magnet, does NOT want to drop through a hole for going stealthy. They refuse and cling to the side for dear life wasting much, much, much time. Alarm goes off and still can't get inside with enough time to hack doors.

 

All in all, unless I really, really, really am in need of some specters. I fully avoid rescue missions. Don't like them at all due to the timer.  

 

With Rescue, its not really the time limit.. though some are rough since the door access is "hard" to find at times... specially under heavy fire. That said, having to keep a mystery body alive or risk a fail is the issue with me. Team even had that mug bug, it got lost somewhere and died... which equals a fail, but that's only happened once.

 

As for the new Spy 2.0 XD reward better be worth it kuz tha shxt you adding seems like to much hassle... i.e. not worth it.

 

-V

Edited by VadenX

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Stealth is limited to 3 frames, and if an enemy spots you but you manage to kill them the rest of the enemies several rooms across are still on alert for some reason.

Kinda pointless doing spy 2.0 without looking at stealth first imo.

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I want the satisfaction of full stealth missions. Designing the game around oafs adds nothing to the game and only perpetuates the money mill image of F2P. Eyes of Blight is an example of the right direction to go in: take a risk with a radical idea. Eyes of Blight allowed parts of the game to be destroyed. In the case of full stealth, players must cooperate and know what they are doing (whaaat!?). 

 

Add a useful statistic to the player profile: alarms tripped over vaults encountered. Let me set a matchmaking limit based on this ratio. 

 

Maybe there can be training materials and a way to redeem your stealth ratio outside of missions. This could be in-game tutorials, sanctioned YouTube videos, or a training center on the relays. 

 

0LfeXbz.jpg

 

I agree that the game truly needs greater emphasis on stealth, but unfortunately that only appeal to a niche crowd. Most players in Warframe seem to lack the patience to accomplish a goal with tactics and finesse. The Ninja part of the game's "Ninjas Play Free" slogan is practically a joke that bears almost zero application to the kick-in-the-door culture and design of Warframe.

 

Frankly, I'm amazed DE even took the time and investment into further enticing its players to play the game with more stealth. I'm very grateful, even, and look forward to trying it with the mature members of my clan that want a little Splinter Cell in their Warframe soup. The rest of the community, however, doesn't care a lick about it, and that's very disappointing.

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Ugh, another timer mission after you trip the alarm?

 

Didn't you already realize that everybody hates rescue missions? at least the ones with the execution timer.

Huh, I didn't realize that I wasn't considered part of "everybody".

 

Alright, cool, I'm excited for Spy 2.0. Time to not bust out Loki because only chumps and really S#&$ty ninjas need to turn invisible to successfully stealth. Doing the missions with Frost forever!

 

Also, it continues to dumbfound me how much people don't recognize that these things are still susceptible to change and that if things like the rewards or the stealth don't work that they can still change in the future. Like Rescue 2.0 (which is perfect by the way) will still change when they rework stealth so...patience grasshopper. The changes will come.

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