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[DE]Rebecca

Nekros: Changes Coming For 15.12

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And they didn't address any of Nekros' problems with SotD. A rather disappointing numbers only buff.

 

Problems:

-Have to constantly pick targets, very counter intuitive to game play. An army of Corrupted Crewman is useless compared to even an army of Lancers.

-Have to charge ultimate by killing (promotes aggressive play style, but still has to pick targets for anything half good which is very inconvenient)

-2.5x damage sounds nice and all until you realize SotD units frequently adopt a take cover strategy rather than an aggressive engage strategy.

-2.5x damage sounds nice and all until you realize that enemies have large health pools and low damage in comparison.

-SotD units appear to not have any armour (health bar is red), nothing mentioned about this?

-SotD units never follow Nekros, making it only worthwhile in defense type missions.

-2x HP only? What about shields?

-It's still very obscuring.

 

Incredibly boring buff. It might be viable now due the sheer numbers of the buffs especially with T4 damage multipliers, but it still has the glaring flaws SotD always had.

 

Terrify got some good changes though. Can be recast will help out a lot.

Edited by CapedBaldy
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these are very welcome changes.....but i feel like SOTD should have its cast requirements looked at as well as the duration....but thats just me

 

 

other than that...everything seems good

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these are very welcome changes.....but i feel like SOTD should have its cast requirements looked at as well as the duration....but thats just me

 

 

other than that...everything seems good

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Volt? Volt is fine as is buddy.

 

Loving the changes, loved them after Scott went through them on devstream... shame there was no Desecrate nerfs as announced ;-)

Volt needs a base speed boost. I'm tired of casting speed and watching my entire squad leave me behind. I'm talking to you, especially, Loki Hall Heroes ;). Anyway, a speed skill that instantly makes you the slowest in the group is VERY flawed.

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As always: Thank you for the information.

 

 

Soul Punch Changes:

 

Soul Punch can be cast from any direction/orientation, meaning that Nekros doesn't have to orient himself to cast on a selected target.

Does this mean it's not a 'STOP EVERYTHING and cast this' now?

I could swear it didn't used to override reloads, for instance.

 

 

Terrify Changes:

 

Terrify casting time reduced.

Terrify will now affect a greater number of targets.(Before: Maxed Terrify = 12 targets. After: Maxed Terrify = 20 targets.)

Terrify can now be recast.

Terrify will prioritize unaffected targets on cast.

Terrify range has been slightly reduced.  (Before: Maxed Terrify = 20 m. After: Maxed Terrify = 15 m.)

If it has to have a target cap (when Raksa's Howl doesn't, afaik), then I'm glad for the bolded changes.

 

 

 

 

Shadows of the Dead Changes:

 

Increased the damage output (x2.5 with Maxed SOTD) of summoned shadows created by Shadows of the Dead.

Increased the health (x2 with Maxed SOTD) of summoned shadows created by Shadows of the Dead.

Their stats are less than half the issue. Maybe less than a third.

Due to damage asymmetry, equal level creatures will soak up damage just fine.

But when, A) Shadows don't draw increased Agro and B) due to AI, my Shadows spend most of their time crouched behind a chest-high wall... >_<

My Shadows don't usually die before timing out.

The added damage might help if they ever shoot stuff, but I don't expect it to, given scaling being exponential (or some such).

 

------

 

 

 

As with all Warframes, modding can be used to enhance different aspects of Nekros' abilities.

 

No 'Desecrate chance affected by Power Strength, up to 100% at <threshold> Str'?  >;[

(I mean, assuming no mechanical change *coughChangeToAuracough*, ideally it'd just be flat out success but that might be excessive.)

Awesome.

Even after these changes, Nekros gameplay will still be↑+3333 Terrify Terrify SotD *Collect orbs/drop plates*

 

Which means that Nekros will still have difficulty maintaining his 'Shadow' pool.

Please please add Desecrated corpses to the Shadows' pool at the very least  >_<

Edited by Chroia
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Oh boy. 

 

Volt next, please. 

 

Meh. Volt is perfect.

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I'm very happy with these because my main build focuses on all powers (maybe not Soul Punch) rather than just spamming desecrate, so it's nice to see these powers get a fairly significant buff.

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Any chance you can make the Shadows of the Dead shadows not block players or their weapon shots?

 

Or at least make it so you can shoot through them if you have punchthrough on.

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Volt? Volt is fine as is buddy.

 

Loving the changes, loved them after Scott went through them on devstream... shame there was no Desecrate nerfs as announced ;-)

No he's not, he really needs to be fixed. His codex entry does not say "utility frame." Go back and read his codex entry.

Edited by -SLX-J3tAc3
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Desecrate needs to change. Tying a warframe to a game mode such that Nekros becomes a must have WF on it is not good from any point of view.

 

Please remove Life support from desecrate pool. If not that then reduce the drop chance to near zero.

 

Make poll about it I think it will solve the problem (maybe most will want it to stay, who knows).

 

If anyone is telling me, dude, spawn rates are broken so we need desecrate... well the answer lies in that very sentence. The problem is in spawn rates and should not be solved by giving a warframe a power indispensable in a game mode.

 

Please tell me playing an entire game where you have to do nothing but press 3 while your teammates are killing everything is fun for every nekros player! Please tell me that's true and I will stop talking at once. Until I can play nekros in a survival because I WANT TO or my powers help A LOT, not just ONE power but AT LEAST 2-3 of them, then I will play him. Yes soul survivor helps thanks for that.

I can tell you that I was farming dark sectors on Eris with my Nekros and Galatine and e.o.m. results showed I was doing 40-60% damage among 3 others, while still having plenty of time for desecrate, shadows of the dead, and occasional terrifies, and even revives for high-perched vaubans with angstrum.

Edited by Bouldershoulder

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Meh. Volt is perfect.

Except that when using speed, and your squad has tea and crumpets at extraction waiting for the supposed "speed powered" frame to catch up, lol.

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Volt needs a base speed boost. I'm tired of casting speed and watching my entire squad leave me behind. I'm talking to you, especially, Loki Hall Heroes ;). Anyway, a speed skill that instantly makes you the slowest in the group is VERY flawed.

That's exactly one of my concerns right there! In addition to that, his ridiculous armor and total damage output need to be buffed badly.

 

Except that when using speed, and your squad has tea and crumpets at extraction waiting for the supposed "speed powered" frame to catch up, lol.

The truth!

Edited by -SLX-J3tAc3
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Nekros has been my Favorite warframe for quite some time, i was able to put shield, health and speed mods while at the same time having a nice SOTD that lasts for 75 seconds.

 

He  (for me) has been a beast for time based missions, not only that but in the void his power grows to a point it's fun, seriously, am i the only one who get's hyped to kill a moa drone? or a nullifier? or an ancient that revives and heals?

I realize that many missions are hard for many players, even easy missions such as t4 interception are taken seriously by high MR players who somehow despise nekros, but for those that don't mind having one in the team, they end up realising that the shadows are excelent cannon fodder, time based misssions become a cakewalk.

 

On top of that we have a warframe excelent for end game farming and a terrify that is an amazing ability for defending objectives (obviously you don't want enemies to run away in survivals).

 

The buffs are not exactly required, the warframe has been easy to mod, easy to play and a great ally in some missions, however i don't mind the changes at all.

 

Nekros is an excelent support warframe, if i am good enough without abilities, why not use my powers to help everyone in the team? that's nekros, the savior of the MR18 newbies.

 

Really nice changes, not really ground breaking but still welcomed.

Edited by KIREEKPSO

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I've played Nekros quite a bit, and I have to say these changes are a bit disappointing.  To explain why, I'll go over each power individually.

 

Soul Punch Changes:

 

Soul Punch can be cast from any direction/orientation, meaning that Nekros doesn't have to orient himself to cast on a selected target.

 

Soul Punch was about the only Nekros power that I thought was decent enough as-is.  A small buff to it is certainly nice (and appreciated), but there are more pressing issues in his toolkit.

 

Terrify Changes:

 

Terrify casting time reduced.

Terrify will now affect a greater number of targets.(Before: Maxed Terrify = 12 targets. After: Maxed Terrify = 20 targets.)

Terrify can now be recast.

Terrify will prioritize unaffected targets on cast.

Terrify range has been slightly reduced.  (Before: Maxed Terrify = 20 m. After: Maxed Terrify = 15 m.)

 

One of the biggest problems with Terrify was the limited number of targets it affected.  While it seems this was recognized, far too much was taken away to accomplish this.  The reduced range means that more enemies around you will be feared, but you'll still be pummeled by enemies outside of its (reduced) range.  This was a problem even before this change, and this nerf has exacerbated this problem.  In addition, these changes (recast + prioritize unaffected targets) lend Terrify to becoming a more spam-like ability (just keep spamming it until everyone in the room Terrified), rather than a single cast that's more effective.  I don't know if that's what DE envisions for the power, but I for one would like less power spamming in the game, instead of more - especially since this is Nekros we're talking about (who's well known for spamming Desecrate over and over and over and over and over....).  And speaking of which....

 

 

Desecrate

I don't know why the most controversial power in his toolkit isn't being looked at.  As of right now, Desecrate is the reason why people request Nekros on a team.  I don't have an issue with that exactly, but I do have an issue with having to spend almost an entire match repeatedly hitting the same button.  If DE wants to move away from the macros and the mindless playing, they need to change Desecrate.  I've seen a lot of good ideas out there (making it a spell with duration, making it a toggle, making it an aura, etc) that would make it so Nekros can actually keep playing (and contributing to the group) while desecrating, rather than making him a Desecrate-bot.  I don't know the perfect solution for Desecrate, but I DO know that leaving it untouched while changing Nekros' powers would be a big mistake.

 

 

Shadows of the Dead Changes:

 

Increased the damage output (x2.5 with Maxed SOTD) of summoned shadows created by Shadows of the Dead.

Increased the health (x2 with Maxed SOTD) of summoned shadows created by Shadows of the Dead.

 

The main issue with Shadows of the Dead aren't their stats - it's their AI.  I realize that they should be 'braindead', so to speak, but they should at least be helpful.  Buffing their AI would be a much better boon to Nekros than a few stat changes (although they're certainly welcome as well).

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Fantastic! As long as these hold true without us suddenly getting a stealth nerf like rotation C or embers WOF duration/toggle nerf.

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But I still think sometimes terrify can be more of a burden as a cc skill. Because some mobs will literally run away across the map. I suggested a long time ago that they literally poop their pants and have some scared animation rather than running away so the player has to go hunt them down afterwards.

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Would have been nice if Terrify also slowed enemies down, but overall these changes seem quite reasonable, can't wait to see them in action. If I may pronounce myself I believe Desecrate should be removed or reworked into something else other than Call of Looty. Why ? Because these changes will mean nothing since everyone will just keep building and using Nekros just for Desecrate as long as it stays this way.

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Soul Punch will keep being bad no matter what.
Terrify will keep being bad no matter what. You need to make a viable deterrent for making enemies so hard to hit.
Shadows of the Dead needs a complementary utility to become relevant: Shadows should attack/focus/get aggro/threat on targets hit by Soul Punch.

And... can we have the Mirage Clones' blur on Shadows when we aim through them?

My suggestions:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/310986-nekros-20-easily-balanced/


Keep it up Digital Extremes, we have faith in you.

Edited by Burnthesteak87
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Question: Can we get a 100% chance for desecrate to consume bodies (this cuts down the 3 spam, at least,) or a change of the ability's function entirely? It's convenient to have a loot multiplier, but I think it'd be more appropriate to adjust drop rates of vital things like oxygen so that a loot multiplier isn't necessary. If Hell freezes over maybe we can even audaciously ask for a slight mod/resource drop rate increase.

 

Suggestion:

 

Please make Shadows of the Dead a toggle. (Moderate starting cost, low cost/s and no duration.) Make it so that Shadows are created by enemies killed within STOD, and maintained until it is turned off. Then their resilience and damage might count for something useful.

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From testing using Mind Freak on Nyx and maxed power strength, I think 2.5x damage, while somewhat noticeable, isn't really enough to make shadows actually deal damage. Mind controlling bombards at lvl 30 with mind freak and maxed power strength(yielding about 1000% increased damage) it still took several rockets to kill a fellow gunner, and the tendency is for that to take longer as levels rise, due to armor potentially scaling faster than damage output.

 

Also, is there any plans on making the AI on both shadows of the dead enemies and mind controlled enemies a bit more aggressive? They are annoyingly passive, sometimes ignoring enemies right in front of them and just sitting idly by.

 

Soul punch changes are ok, terrify changes are actually much better than I expected. I think boosting the damage buff(but not necessarily the health buff) to 5x and making shadows more aggressive would allow SotD to actually bring support to the team offensively, instead of just making a bunch of bullet sponges for a while.

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-snip-

Still won't use nekros for anything else than desecrate.

 

Soul Punch: only usefull with soul survivor augment.

 

Terrify: Not reliable and even with max power strenght build you would have to spam it to make sure you got most of the enemies. And with the range reduction, welp.

 

SotD: Meatwall and nothing else.

 

Overall: The way you mod for desecrate destroys his other abilities and with the range reduction to terrify even more so. Overall those changes won't help a nekros users in higher level survivals at all. Aside from soul survivor uses maybe. On lower tier and for the more casual players nekros will maybe offer more now but in those missions you can use anything and be succesfull with it.

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