Stealth Feedback & Suggestions Thread

[x3Darkie]

^ That would break bosses.

I thought that stealth killing bosses are impossible.

[_Chaser]

ASH SHURIKEN STILL CAUSE THE ALERT

[xXBATTLEBEATZXx]

Well after reading your post top to bottom i agree on every last one of your suggestions. But I also want to see some sort of parkour sneaking. I got this idea when i was playing as loki, I ran up a wall and held it there (continued to hold space), it was pretty bad &#! seeing one of the crewmen walk right under me then me dropping down and stealth killing him.

[ChickenBar]

the Blade Storm is by far the most effective stealth ability, please don't get rid of it.

and why do you wanna turn off cloak when you attack? 

[Huitzil]

Stealth shouldn't be a way to avoid enemies. It should be a way to kill them. In other words, make it less Thief, more Alpha Protocol. Or the Spy and Scout from TF2.

 

If stealth is used to avoid enemies, then it gives less Affinity, mods, and other rewards than killing them, and there's no point to having a stealth-focused Frame in a team that has non-stealth Frames. In fact, there's not much point of having a team at all, since it's just more people who can be spotted.

 

But if stealth is a killing method, you're getting rewards, and you're adding to a team. Stealth involves getting to where you need to be to make the enemy less effective: jacking the guy going for the alarm, popping up behind a fortification when all the guns are pointed away from you, running through the enemy's backfield shredding their snipers and support units where their foot soldiers can't protect them. This would require the enemy AI to be better at making defenses so the stealth player has something to disrupt, but let's face it, you need that anyway. Stealth in this model would require bursts of speed and damage more than silencers and patrol monitors, because you don't mind being detected by people when you're about to murder them.

 

In addition to a cloaking ability, stealth would need more movement options (crawling on the ceiling is always fun to go over people's heads, drop down behind them, and start slicing) and burst damage / speed abilities. Enemies would need more awareness states than "aware" and "not aware", because you would often be going in to maul them from behind while their attention is occupied shooting at the people in front of them, and that's when you should be using your special backstab attacks. But I think this would work much, much better than trying to shoehorn in a way to "ghost" missions without being seen.

[SFkenny]

Actual patrol routes for enemies instead of randomly walking everywhere would be nice too, along with auditory indications of nearby enemy footsteps. I still don't hear footsteps from the Grineer to this day.

[_Chaser]

30 stealth kills run

 

there are couple of easy fixable issues that will stealth way more enjoyable right now.
 

 

-TOO MANY ENEMIES

if player is undetected, less enemies should spawn, so it will make stealth not only possible but also extremely enjoyable.

-ASH skills cause alarm
just a couple of lines of code, please fix it, so ash skills would not cause alarm

-SHADE BEING DETECTED BY ENEMIES.
really major downfall, please make enemies ignore shade unless they spoted the owner. right now it's rather better to go without that sentiel at all

-BANSHEE SONAR IS USELESS
please make it to show all the enemies in ONE SECTION PER USE. it will make banshee a really good stealth option.

 

 

i may also suggest couple of items that my type of players would gladly buy from the shop ( for credits )

 

-vision

you can see enemies behind the walls/doors in 10-15 meters range like you see allies on consuming. will come really handy for opeing doors.

 

-some kind of silent offhand

we got bow, why don't we have a crossbow? you know van helsing style, you can even make dual crossbows

 

 

to be absolutely honest, during easter event ammount of was absolutely perfect  and i was literally screaming of joy how good stealth was. now when easter event is over we got to the same issues as before.

 

there are not so many things left to make stealth enjoyable, i hope these issues will finaly get fixed, and we ( stealth players will get our own space ninja paradise )

Edited April 29, 2013 by n7snk

[Xiloscient]

I was cool with this up until the loki invisibility nerf and the Ash rework. Fix the alarm bugs for the abilities sure, but don't take away ash's awesome ult.

[ChickenBar]

Actual patrol routes for enemies instead of randomly walking everywhere would be nice too, along with auditory indications of nearby enemy footsteps. I still don't hear footsteps from the Grineer to this day.

I think the footsteps are quite clear and obvious to hear. And random patrol routes is actually favorable imo, you don't expect baddies to patrol the same way every time in real life do you. I always hated the AI with fixed patrol route in Splinter Cell.

Edited April 29, 2013 by ChickenBar

[_Chaser]

I think the footsteps are quite clear and obvious to hear. And random patrol routes is actually favorable imo, you don't expect baddies to patrol the same way every time in real life do you. I always hated the AI with fixed patrol route in Splinter Cell.

before commenting, did you actually tried to play stealthy here?

 

here is situation: you walk behind enemy, then he suddenly decide to turn around without any reason. is that good? no.

[RyanGo]

This has been mentioned a lot, but just re-iterating:

The ghost ability cloaking shade is great now, but shade needs to STAY invisible while the Ash's smoke bomb and Loki's invisibility abilities are active. pls. D:

[ChickenBar]

before commenting, did you actually tried to play stealthy here?

 

here is situation: you walk behind enemy, then he suddenly decide to turn around without any reason. is that good? no.

chill..

I can assure you I have done stealth runs as many times as you do, if not more. I have maxed Ash as my primary warframe (out of two warframes), and Paris and Shade, all because of I want to play stealth. And I'll do anything in my power to suggest anything to improve stealth. We all have a common goal here.

The footsteps can be clearly heard, at least in my case. Hide under a staircase I can clearly hear a Grineer walked past me. But you shouldn't be worrying that because you should be using Enemy Radar or Enemy Sense mod.

For the patrol routes, I still prefer the random routes just because it is more challenging. Again in a potential real life situation you can't expect enemies to patrol the same way every time. Unless you prefer dumb AI and no challenges whatsoever.

If you like stealth, get the Shade, it will enable you to play and sneak like you've never done before. It is quite OP but it is not exactly 0 challenge. If you stay away from Shade, it is still doable, as I've done before with Paris, but you may have to strike fast and less sneaking.

[_Chaser]

chill..

I can assure you I have done stealth runs as many times as you do, if not more. I have maxed Ash as my primary warframe (out of two warframes), and Paris and Shade, all because of I want to play stealth. And I'll do anything in my power to suggest anything to improve stealth. We all have a common goal here.

The footsteps can be clearly heard, at least in my case. Hide under a staircase I can clearly hear a Grineer walked past me. But you shouldn't be worrying that because you should be using Enemy Radar or Enemy Sense mod.

For the patrol routes, I still prefer the random routes just because it is more challenging. Again in a potential real life situation you can't expect enemies to patrol the same way every time. Unless you prefer dumb AI and no challenges whatsoever.

If you like stealth, get the Shade, it will enable you to play and sneak like you've never done before. It is quite OP but it is not exactly 0 challenge. If you stay away from Shade, it is still doable, as I've done before with Paris, but you may have to strike fast and less sneaking.

i own shade. and in my experience it's rather easy to sneak up without it. enemies spot it and spot you even if you are crouching, like if you was standing up in open.

[ChickenBar]

i own shade. and in my experience it's rather easy to sneak up without it. enemies spot it and spot you even if you are crouching, like if you was standing up in open.

it is indeed very irritating. and yes it needs to be fixed. Maybe Shade can hide behind you when hiding behind a low cover?

Right now I just sprint and sneak up behind as soon as the enemy is looking away from me.

[_Chaser]

i own shade. and in my experience it's rather easy to sneak up without it. enemies spot it and spot you even if you are crouching, like if you was standing up in open.

 

 

it is indeed very irritating. and yes it needs to be fixed. Maybe Shade can hide behind you when hiding behind a low cover?

Right now I just sprint and sneak up behind as soon as the enemy is looking away from me.

 

well, the most simple solution is to make enemies ignore it unless they spot the master.

hiding etc is animation, what is not as important as mechanics itself. like when you crouch shade can just sit on your shoulder. shade isn't supposed to attack anything anyway

Edited April 29, 2013 by n7snk

[ZackRoyer]

I suggest that the AI take more time to set the alarm, they barely get enough closer and the alarm ring. A lot of times I was chasing a NPC and they swap the alarm as the "alarm menu" is already up in the panel. Not much time but enough to open some interface on the panel and switch the alarm, setting some kind of code.

[SFkenny]

I think the footsteps are quite clear and obvious to hear. And random patrol routes is actually favorable imo, you don't expect baddies to patrol the same way every time in real life do you. I always hated the AI with fixed patrol route in Splinter Cell.

 

It's more logical to have SOME kind of organization, where units would patrol certain areas. Plus, it's better than watching units walk into walls repeatedly (which happens a lot right now)

[ChickenBar]

It's more logical to have SOME kind of organization, where units would patrol certain areas. Plus, it's better than watching units walk into walls repeatedly (which happens a lot right now)

walking into walls must be a bug. I meant they shouldn't be walking in circles or back and forth just for the sake to let players observe their patrol pattern

[_Chaser]

walking into walls must be a bug. I meant they shouldn't be walking in circles or back and forth just for the sake to let players observe their patrol pattern

actually it's a good thing that guards have a pattern, so you can plan ahead how to complete section.

[VelenoHargreaves]

But is not real... In real life, patrols have a pattern, but not in this AI way, it is more like "I need to guard this sector" so he will randomly walk on that sector in a way that he fulfill his "objective" that is "Guard the damn room" simple... If you can't manage to work around and improvise, then you are playing stealth wrongly in my opnion... Stealth is a game-style where you need to be prepared for everything... You need to think ahead with what you have... Random patterns? Stay close to then, wait for a breach, pass by or kill it and move to the next...

 

Another thing that I noticed. Stealth kills now count as a full Charged Critical (Killing Blow mod adds damage too) That helps a lot in stealth, thank you DE for doing this, but that also makes a new "problem" Heavy Weapons Stealth OP, dagger stealth still low-grade for that... I use a dark sword so far, with a charged critical + Killing Blow maxed I deal around 625 (Not counting armor penetration that I think deals more damage on grinners) It is enough to one hit almost every normal mob. But my concern is, with a Fang, I only deal around 300 or so with mods... That's way too underpowered for weapons that were meant to be stealthy... And I'm not even talking about Heavy weapons stealth, Gram, Fragor and Scindo Base chage attack is 200, way more then dark sword that is 125 and way more then any dagger or dual weapon, Stealth counting as a full charged critical you hit 400 in raw, lets add killing blow and bam! we now have 700 damage. That is one shot for every low level mob and some heavy-low levels...

 

My point is, Heavy Weapons are now way more powerfull in sneak then daggers or swords that were meant to do that...

 

TL;DR

Random Paths = Good, adds Challange on Game, makes you improvise

 

Stealth Attacks nows count as a full charged critical and Killing Blow adds more damage to the calculation, what makes Heavy Weapons Overpowered to that and light weapons ridiculously Underpowered (in front of heavy weapons)

[Phoenix86]

Need silencers mod or rifles with silencer attachment

[DrTeaSpoon]

Biggest issue with stealh right now is not how it's executed. Right now I can play through raid missions quite effectively with only shade by my side. Smoke from Ash is always good extra when needing to take few extra steps into precense of enemy so shade will cover me.

 

Problem I have is that stealth takes so much time and effort with so little reward. If I get perfect game with 0 enemies killed and no allerts. I only get what I find as a loot (wich is even more rare with my lack of effective way of destroying containers.) from closets. And only reward I get is the single mod from possible raid and the cash.

 

To be honest right now it's more profitable to just rampage through the whole game because you have to kill for most loot.

 

You could introduce No detection and No Kills bonus (at the end) and possibly expotentially growing loot drop chances on successive stealth kills.

The problem though would be with infected because they don't have "Alert consoles". Possibbly give them time based alert rather than the consoles. Or possibly collective Alert when more than 5 creatures are alerted at same time.

 

Edit: I would also like to note that the random enemy spawning in areas I Know I have already explored is bleeding anoying when playing stealthy. If the number of enemies keeps changing as I move through the map unnoticed, the stealth becomes more and more obsolete gameplay style.

Edited April 30, 2013 by DrTeaSpoon

[KuroLuffy]

Reading the first post made me laught ^^, i agree with most if not all he is saying but IMO doing all that was said would drastically change the game.

I do expect some action towards the stealth approach principally with the meant to be stealth warframe but i think that besides fixing the bugs, the changes should be gradual so we can feel the stealth mode and adapt to it gradually.

 

And seriously nice post man, reading it looked like you really care with this game :)

[Effusion-]

This week's Extra Credits happens to be about stealth.

http://youtu.be/WEEcEbzpII0

[IHWIP]

OK I just had an idea. Not sure how to implement. Basically the idea is that you have a "decoy body" ability that leaves a dead copy of you on the floor. The reason this suggestion is in the thread is that this would then allow the enemy to think you are dead and stealth mode comes back on. Does that make sense? It could be combined with a warframe called "Chameleon" that enables you to take the form of the enemy too. Like a warframe that specializes in deception. Not invisibility but actual blending in with the enemy. Now that would be awesome.