Stealth Feedback & Suggestions Thread

[DoctorBrookes]

it happens only after alert. *you are on the sensors now. you have been detected* i guess thats alright.

if alert was not triggered enemies would not know where are you exacly

 

I find that it doesn't work that way. I'll often have a single enemy spot me, I kill them immediately before any shot is fired, then 10 more come running. Who hit the alarm? Nobody saw me.

[_Chaser]

are you playing online? if so, try solo. if you got spoted and killed an enemy hide for around 10 seconds untill music will change. after that you will see couple of enemies behind cover or walking in cautious state. if you will wait a bit more they will turn into safe mode again. try to avoid enemies that got stuck to cover (if any)and you will be alright.

[DoctorBrookes]

are you playing online? if so, try solo. if you got spoted and killed an enemy hide for around 10 seconds untill music will change. after that you will see couple of enemies behind cover or walking in cautious state. if you will wait a bit more they will turn into safe mode again. try to avoid enemies that got stuck to cover (if any)and you will be alright.

Even in solo. But even then, why should the enemies go into cautious state or cover? None of them should have even known anything was happening since there was no sight or sound to alert them.

[_Chaser]

a sound. only couple of enemies in next room go into cautious state, since it's not normal to have gunfire on board of the ship. kinda logical.

Edited May 14, 2013 by n7snk

[DoctorBrookes]

It happens even if you kill them silently before they fire a shot.

[_Chaser]

ok i will record a video now to prove it never happens now if you don't mind

 

nvm happens sometimes yeah thats a bug

 

will put recorded anyway

 

http://en.twitch.tv/n7snk/c/2283656

 

here.

 

adding on list

Edited May 14, 2013 by n7snk

[the1chanz]

So far very nice suggestions in the first post. First up I didn't read any other post in the thread (tl;dr) but I got some suggestions in addition to the first posts suggestions.

 

Be able to attach the sentinel to yourself and/or locations in midair and/or walls and/or enemies. When attached to yourself you can use stealth to hide your sentinel as well. With this you gain control over your sentinel without breaking the gameplay logic. Also being able to tell your sentinel to attack and/or confuse an enemy would be nice.

 

The main issue with stealth games is: How to tell the player where an enemy is. If its too easy its annoying and feels stupid. If its too hard it won't be used and the standard genocide starts. So as a solution for this issue is to use a gameplay feature:

- Be able to lock on targets (auto lock by crosshair over target, with line of sight)

- Be able to use the sentinel as kind of mobile camera (tell the sentinel to fly at the top of a room)

- Persistence of actions. This means when buttons are pressed the action will be continued as soon as possible when interrupted.

 

Especially the last point (Persistence of actions) is an important one, since nothing is more annoying than to press buttons and not the expected actions takes place (yes I speak of the sprint-button that gets stuck and the duck-button (not the toggle one) which has to be re-pressed after some time)

 

My last point is the gameplay which may become quite unreasonable.

To make it short, what I mean is/will be:

*INTRUDER ALERT* *HACKING ALERT* *Sorry - Malfunctioning Equipment* .........

*INTRUDER ALERT* *HACKING ALERT* *Sorry - Malfunctioning Equipment* .........

*INTRUDER ALERT* *HACKING ALERT* *Sorry - Malfunctioning Equipment* .........

 

This is unreasonable and just feels stupid. To avoid those 'moments' the following could happen:

Upon an intruder alert a special squad (min. 6 squad members) will be send to the room/area where the intruder alert was issued.

This squad tries to find the player.

When the player is not found the alarm is lifted and new enemies will be send to the area as new guards.

When the player is found the squad tries to eliminate the player.

Upon success the squad will retreat immediately (all players which where seen are dead).

When failed another squad (maybe with more squad members) will be send.

There will be only 5-6 squads for a hole map, when defeated a newly triggered alarm won't send any more squad members.

Each squad has a timer which can be seen by the player.

When this timer runs out the next squad will be send or the current squad turns the alarm off.

 

Thanks for reading even if its a little bit complicated. :-)

[Itache]

More XP per kill means the statistically best way, hands down, is to stealth kill everything. I don't think there should be a "right way" from a rewards perspective.

There can be an XP reward to balance it out, just don't tie it to kills. It doesn't even really make sense from a stealth approach either. You'd be rewarded for killing everything, I don't think that's really congruent with stealth gameplay.

Is that more clear?

EDIT: One idea could be to award XP for each enemy that didn't spot you. You wouldn't need to kill them but you'd still get the XP. Not perfect but something along those lines.

if you're trying to argue that ppl will feel that the need to do stealth missions to get the most xp you're not taking into account the time it would take to complete one stealth mission killing everything could take 15-30mins where you could just do 2-3 5min missions and get more xp in least amount of time

[XDeathCoreX]

Remaining cloaked under Ghost while stealth killing.

[DoctorBrookes]

if you're trying to argue that ppl will feel that the need to do stealth missions to get the most xp you're not taking into account the time it would take to complete one stealth mission killing everything could take 15-30mins where you could just do 2-3 5min missions and get more xp in least amount of time

 

Not just this, but also the fact that the bonus XP probably won't net more than 'going loud'. The bonus XP is just to make up for what you lose by not killing enemies the whole time, which is a lot.

[mlgfazeopticquickscope]

Increase the range of being able to sneak attack the enemy and then we'll talk.

Other than that, I agree with everything the OP posted.

[VelenoHargreaves]

Another thing that has been happening after some hotfixes ago, when you stealth attack someone (animation) and you are under shade's invisibillity abillity, you don't stay on stealth.

 

i.e. Two enemies walking in a distance where you can stealth kill both. Both are in shade's abillity range. How it was before hotfixes. You kill one, with animation stealth attack, and you would still invisible because you were in range of the other enemy. What happens now, you stealth attack someone, you get uncloacked just after you manage to click on the melee button. This is a problem, because, if the other enemy simply move a little different (due random paths) he will see you stealth attacking the enemy...

 

Before those hotfixes, the enemy would only find the dead body and enter on high alert state (no alarm) but know with that "fix" you can't manage to stealth kill someone in a room with more then one enemy due the fear to be spotted in the middle of your attack...

[SFkenny]

I think being able to take control of your ghost and doing some remote recon could be pretty cool.

[Elydir]

Personally, id love to see a stealth option in this game, in fact, itd be great to see something a little metal gear solid like, with the option to distract enemies and make them let you get through to maybe an artifact / data module/ hostage/ kidnap target. or a mod to silence whatever weapon your using, like the regular rifles and pistols. 

Also, there seems to be an issue with enemies not even noticing that your flashlight is shining on them, that should probably be looked into...

[Emotitron]

Devs just need to go spend a weekend playing Deus Ex: HR or other game known to get stealth right - and just steal everything they can from it as a starting point.  It is a pretty well established genre.

[RouvenDesc]

Make a planet where you fight rogue tennos, and the boss is the STALKER. Just suggest a name for the guy.

[Emotitron]

Required viewing for anyone trying to develop a stealth game.

[O.M.F]

i believe there is already an enemy tenno...but yea stealth

[FaceOfKain]

I would love it if there was a Alarm Timer mod that would show you how much time enemies have until they lose their alert status.  Also, seriously need to fix the bug where some enemies would still be alarmed after the alarm goes away.

[_Chaser]

cannot perform stealth kills on captain Vor even if completed whole level undetected and got invisible.

 

http://youtu.be/UjnVry0EqqY?t=10m55s

Edited May 19, 2013 by n7snk

[SFkenny]

Presumably this is to prevent people exploiting the stealth kills to easily kill bosses. Admittedly though, on lesser bosses like Vor and Anyo, I wish stealthing them was possible.

[Jedi]

this is getting out of hand, I thought the game was a coop cover game. Stealth is just an ability your taking things way out of context here.

 

ps: im not a stealth hater, rouge 60 nwo.. just saying ^^

[The7thGuardian]

I think you should also add 'If cameras sees you, they will sound the alarm' and I think the devs should make it a way that you can hide your sentinel. One more thing, I think the shield lancers shouldn't make the defensive post with their shield while patrolling but just make the shields hang from their backs.

Edited May 20, 2013 by The7thGuardian

[_Chaser]

ps: im not a stealth hater, rouge 60 nwo.. just saying ^^

you seem to be completely unfamiliar with stealth. invisibility in mmo rpg is not even close to stealth by any means.

games like mgs, thief or deus ex, tenchu, dishonored are about stealth. you should probably try out one of them to get general idea what stealth is.

 

 

 

I think you should also add 'If cameras sees you, they will sound the alarm' and I think the devs should make it a way that you can hide your sentinel. One more thing, I think the shield lancers shouldn't make the defensive post with their shield while patrolling but just make the shields hang from their backs.

they do change color and beep a little + music notification.

 

will be rather better to have an option to backstab shield lancers as they are right now.

 

adding on the list.

Edited May 20, 2013 by n7snk

[Jedi]

you seem to be completely unfamiliar with stealth. invisibility in mmo rpg is not even close to stealth by any means.

games like mgs, thief or deus ex, tenchu, dishonored are about stealth. you should probably try out one of them to get general idea what stealth is.

 

 

Mate im 27 ive played games since the atari, stealth does what it says on the tin. Yes being invisible can be defined as not being stealth but the concept is all the same (the enemy cant see you).

 

I stand by my words this is a cover coop game. Im not saying any of these ideas are not good and my refrence to nwo was just the most recent game that ive played that uses stealth.

 

ps; I own all of them games =/ and know exatly what stealth is, stay hidden, avoid making noise and using disguises etc etc.

 

Edit: dont own tenchu but played it many years ago.

Edited May 20, 2013 by Jedi