Tetsmeha Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 -kill enemies stealthed- Actually the challenge has always been there, but no one ever notices or is able to finish it because it's impossible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Chaser Posted January 18, 2013 Author Share Posted January 18, 2013 (edited) well it's possible but only with right ammount of luck + i belive enemies waypoints should be less random so we will be able to predict. current pachfinding makes it really pain in &#! to hide i will upload video with examples later Edited January 18, 2013 by n7snk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AreWeHuman Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Suggestion for stealth missions with bosses. If you get to a boss undetected, the boss is unprepared. IE Jakal is not yet assembled fully, other bosses aren't wearing a helmet, etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriegsherr Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 I only disagree with the "have enemies apear on your minimap" thing since you have warframe mods for that, that was probably the 2nd warframe i ever got ever, +27 enemy radar, though they teaked (i.e. reduced) warframe drop amount and quality it seems. The other point i disagree is Loki's invisibility, I would like it to remain stealth for as long as the duration is because I'm lame like that and I like to troll bosses that used to own my face before i got 200 energy and max level stealth :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Chaser Posted January 18, 2013 Author Share Posted January 18, 2013 Suggestion for stealth missions with bosses. If you get to a boss undetected, the boss is unprepared. IE Jakal is not yet assembled fully, other bosses aren't wearing a helmet, etc etc. adding now I only disagree with the "have enemies apear on your minimap" thing since you have warframe mods for that, that was probably the 2nd warframe i ever got ever, +27 enemy radar, though they teaked (i.e. reduced) warframe drop amount and quality it seems. The other point i disagree is Loki's invisibility, I would like it to remain stealth for as long as the duration is because I'm lame like that and I like to troll bosses that used to own my face before i got 200 energy and max level stealth :D sorry, i'm still quite new so i didn't know about enemies radar, in this case it will be removed. and if you are lame - get better ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiku Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Stealth should be used as a defence mechanism, not only just a challenge to get rewards. There needs to be a reason why you don't want to be detected. Batman: Arkham Asylum and Arkham City are good examples of a stealth mechanic in an action oriented game. In Batman, you wanted to stay hidden and do stealth kills to avoid detection, because enemies who spotted you killed you fast. But to compensate this, you were able to get into a hiding spot really fast using a grabbling hook and pull yourself onto a gargoyle. Also there were many other hiding places such as trap doors. Hiding places were mostly everywhere and easy to get to. I'd like to see this also in Warframe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcalane Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 (edited) Actually the challenge has always been there, but no one ever notices or is able to finish it because it's impossible Not quite impossible, but definitely difficult. Oddly, security cameras that have green lights count as not-alert for the purpose of Stealth missions, so you can often finish it off easily if you managed to get a few kills on actual enemies early on. --------------------------- Stealth should be used as a defence mechanism, not only just a challenge to get rewards. There needs to be a reason why you don't want to be detected. Batman: Arkham Asylum and Arkham City are good examples of a stealth mechanic in an action oriented game. In Batman, you wanted to stay hidden and do stealth kills to avoid detection, because enemies who spotted you killed you fast. But to compensate this, you were able to get into a hiding spot really fast using a grabbling hook and pull yourself onto a gargoyle. Also there were many other hiding places such as trap doors. Hiding places were mostly everywhere and easy to get to. I'd like to see this also in Warframe. I'd say not having enemies constantly spawning behind you/swarming towards you is a pretty decent incentive sometimes. The sheer number of the bastards just gets ridiculous sometimes, like they're piling out of spaces that simply shouldn't contain them. Edited January 18, 2013 by Arcalane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiku Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 ^ Yep, enemies spawning from rooms you just cleared is one thing what needs to go. As suggested earlier in the thread, there could be these things similiar to those where MOAs come from. But they should be disableable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AreWeHuman Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 ^ Yep, enemies spawning from rooms you just cleared is one thing what needs to go. As suggested earlier in the thread, there could be these things similiar to those where MOAs come from. But they should be disableable. This so much. And the MOA things do already "empty." Or I seem to remeber that they do... On the boss spawning note some of the things that turn up on the other side of doors would have to be adjusted/changed when stealth. Sometimes I walk into a room and there are like 4+ enemies just staring at the door. And some corpus cameras catch you as the door is opening. Although that could be a mod thing/undetected change thing. would be okay logic wise as it stands to reason that no one would want to turn on motion detecting laser doors when you aren't on high alert right? Corpus could also just be "harder" to stealth agianst as well.. Provide an avenue for challenge as well as a means of mixing up what is most effective for each level. Same thing goes with an "invasion" level. Doesn't make too much sense to stealth into a spaceship to avoid high alert status when they are already under assault and should be anyway. One stealth thing that would make sense for invasion missions would be like the ability to avoid squads of enemies that are looking to go kill the invaiders/the people they are invading, not you. And like rooms with ongoing clashes that you can kind of avoid or sneak around would also be cool. Like maybe provide an alternate path that exposes you to other risks if you don't stealth (take the maintance hatch but there are bursts of fire and coolant going off, oh no! lololol.) or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriegsherr Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 and if you are lame - get better ;) Lame in the sense "I like my OP stuff, trolololol" Anyway yes, the respawn mechanic needs serious tweaking, specially when you get in a situation where you vs 4 toxic infected big stompy fellas supported by 3 of the other one that have the deplete shield and energy bullS#&$ nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Chaser Posted January 19, 2013 Author Share Posted January 19, 2013 just aquired ash and i confirm on shuriken causing alert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzzero Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 (edited) Well, there is a very simple fix that would make stealth playthrough much easier. The alarm is triggered by enemies running to the control panel and turning it on. They do that after they see you/see friendly corpses. Just add 20 second timer and suitable UI message between enemy clicking the control panel and alarm beaing broadcasted. During this time players would have a possibility to run up to the panel and hack it to stop the alarm from triggering. Edited January 19, 2013 by nzzero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Chaser Posted January 19, 2013 Author Share Posted January 19, 2013 (edited) Well, there is a very simple fix that would make stealth playthrough much easier. The alarm is triggered by enemies running to the control panel and turning it on. They do that after they see you/see friendly corpses. Just add 20 second timer between enemy clicking the control panel and alarm beaing broadcasted. During this time players would have a possibility to run up to the panel and hack it to stop the alarm from triggering. it doesn't solve all of it. if you encountered enemy directly once - all other enemies even in different sections will be in "ready to fire" state. and there is no cooldown for that. ASH skills feedback -smoke screen duration of invisibility is way too short. it's currently around 1-2 seconds on 1st upgrade level. i would like to suggest different mechanics on smoke screen. lets say if you press and hold smoke screen, it will shows alot of smoke and stun opponents and turn you invisible for short period of time. if you click on smoke screen once you will turn invisible for same duration as loki does, and the only difference will be that you dissapear in bits of smoke instead of loki yellowish invisibility. Edited January 19, 2013 by n7snk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otaiken Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 Apart from other suggestions from this thread, if reliable stealth system is to be implemented, I think we really need some kind of distraction technique. Right now if enemy walks certain path and you have no way of hiding/taking cover, you cannot do anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Chaser Posted January 19, 2013 Author Share Posted January 19, 2013 (edited) Apart from other suggestions from this thread, if reliable stealth system is to be implemented, I think we really need some kind of distraction technique. Right now if enemy walks certain path and you have no way of hiding/taking cover, you cannot do anything. if unalerted - loki's aural decoy (should be "soft" and cause enemies to investigate it's position ) and/or may be consumable item at shop for other classes Edited January 19, 2013 by n7snk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mak_Gohae Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 Apart from other suggestions from this thread, if reliable stealth system is to be implemented, I think we really need some kind of distraction technique. Right now if enemy walks certain path and you have no way of hiding/taking cover, you cannot do anything. I think most rooms provide enough cover, the only ones where this becomes a problem are the bigger ones and in the bigger ones hiding isnt really the problem is just the enemies super vision noticing you before you even know they are there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Chaser Posted January 19, 2013 Author Share Posted January 19, 2013 (edited) I think most rooms provide enough cover, the only ones where this becomes a problem are the bigger ones and in the bigger ones hiding isnt really the problem is just the enemies super vision noticing you before you even know they are there. well, some of objects seems transparent for enemies.i can tell that there is no much trouble in sneaking in wide areas and enemies view distance is quite okay, but ofcourse there could be more sneaky spots added, for example getting up on edges and on top of containers etc. but in small rooms with completely random patchfinding sneaking become quite impossible. especially when there are around 4-5 foes in that room. i guess there could be added/replaced some new ability to ash or loki: or some new item in shop -vision you can see through the walls for brief period of time Edited January 19, 2013 by n7snk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock-Work Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 I'm for a lot of these ideas, especially the motivation suggestion. One of this game's strong suits is that it gives freedom to the player to do the objectives any which way they like, This freedom should be complimented with rewards to encourage players to investigate different playstyles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechnoFoxx1 Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Hello, TechnoFoxx1 here! :) I really appreciate playing Warframe, even though I'm new to it. I'm really glad to be able join the closed beta, along with the thousands of players who have already participated in it. I also wanted to let you guys know that I'm not here just to play the game and enjoy it, but to help improve it and make it better for the whole community. I also hope that you guys also have the same goal as mine. I have played the game for quite a while now, and the UI, graphics, and the rest of the features are great, although the feature which, I think needs slightly more development is the stealth gameplay. In stealth mode, the actions that I can do are pretty much limited and that it seems as if the only thing I can do is crouch and wait for the soldiers to pass by, then continue to walk on. So here, I made a list. Here are a FEW examples of features which I think, needs to be improved and some of which I think needs to be added: 1. Stealth Kills (backstabbing, slitting throats with blades, etc. ) 2. Less noise for melee weapons, specifically blades. 3. Being able to attach suppressors on weapons. (Low noise, but slightly lower damage.) 4.The ability to cloak for a few seconds ( Around 6-8 seconds of cloak [less, if you think. :) ]; undetectable at medium to long distances, but can still be detected at close distance.) 5. The ability to carry or drag bodies to hide them. 6. Corpses won't despawn (Not sure about this idea, might cause lag. D: ) 7. Soldiers react or they become alarmed when they see dead corpses. Ok, so those are only a few of my ideas. You guys might also have your own ideas to add for stealth, and you are welcome to mention them in the comments below. In my opinion, these things will add more freedom to the game. You can still play the game in a run-and-gun style. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johncage Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 stealth requirements: cover system, darkness system for ai, silent takedowns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swizzlestix Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 stealth requirements: cover system Cover system's not a requirement. Your camera can already peer around corners with your Tenno out of view; the over-the-shoulder viewpoint guarantees this.If you search on YouTube for Warframe Stealth runs, you'll find that 90% of the time, the player gets caught by the finnicky AI search mechanics as opposed to being compromised looking around corners. Seriously, why are people so hellbent on including a cover system in this game!? I mean, so long as it doesn't affect the way I play it myself, why not just give them it and assign it to its own key or something, so everyone else who doesn't want the cover system doesn't have to use it? I just feel that someone who does use the cover system is likely to fall behind a player who doesn't, and that alone will eventually discourage its use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B42e Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 *uhm*cough* I shall bring one "veteran" stealth game on the table... AAAAaaand It is..! HITMAN I was surprised that no one had mentioned Hitman on this thread. Also I could make lil short video about the mechanics of Hitman. (and the footage would be from the newest hitman game which is Hitman: Absolution.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Chaser Posted January 20, 2013 Author Share Posted January 20, 2013 (edited) *uhm*cough* I shall bring one "veteran" stealth game on the table... AAAAaaand It is..! HITMAN I was surprised that no one had mentioned Hitman on this thread. Also I could make lil short video about the mechanics of Hitman. (and the footage would be from the newest hitman game which is Hitman: Absolution.) because hitman always was about social stealth and disguise. changing closes etc so you can walk around enemies incognito. this is the reason why it wasn't bring up on table, while games like mgs and tenchu are about stealth in hostile enviromnent where you can't affort enemies to see you. basicly most we need is fixing alarm system and more predictable patchways of enemies, no respawn, xp rewards for completing level sections undetected and some changes in environment so we will be able to get up on more obstacles. this will make stealth actually possible. rest is just stuff that makes stealth comfortable for example backstab, showing enemies on radar + consumable item or skill to see enemies through the walls. Edited January 20, 2013 by n7snk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenshi1985 Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 + signed Just that i would love to have a combo bonus or style bonus too so its not just being stealthy, but being fast in battle is rewarded too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHarlequin Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 A bonus for portions of a map finished in stealth would be nice. Several of the alternatives suggested are pretty good though I don't think powers should really be worried about. It would be nice if the enemies actually had to do something to start the alert. If you are attacking an enemy, then it can't really get clear to start an alert. If there is a second enemy that notices you, it won't be busy and could go to start the alert. As well as each faction probably can take a different action to start the alert. Grineer shout to one another until one triggers a console. Corpus would either yell or flash lights at each other until one triggers a console. Since infestation are so odd, they should probably be more vulnerable to stealth in that they can't trigger a ship wide issue. They just yell and bring everything in the room. Considering how an alert on infestation ships makes it an extreme hassle, it would be nice if there is a decent way to get the alert to slow down or cancel on infestation ships at least. I think one other idea that might be best if no major changes are made. The secondary bonus objective of stealth should really reward a much higher reward then any other mission. It's not simple to do in 10 enemies without an alert, and rare to get an "unaware kill" after an alert has started. If the little work arounds are fixed, then the stealth objective should be made much more valuable. If the workarounds can't be fixed, then it should be almost simple to get alerts to stop or make the proper kills so that the objective can be completed more often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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