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Stealth Feedback & Suggestions Thread


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We'll need more stealth paths to move undetected like underground tunnel and ventilation pipes. Make them to be only accessible by using the parkour skill. The stealth paths will sometimes be blocked and force us to go to regular path again then we can find another stealth paths to move closer to the objective.

Just my thought of stealth gameplay.

 

Yes! That's exactly what I just tought. IMO the game is too linear at its current state to really emphasise stealth play: the players move through semi-random generated (as far as I noticed) corridors, which look great, but still are corridors. Adding some alternate routes would be really great.

 

 

Also, control consoles:

 

  • Either should be hackable to broadcast a "false alarm" (i.e. when the mission is already under alert, this cancels it out), with a much harder puzzle and/or only limited to 3 hacks for this function
  • Or hacking an untouched console will temporarily render ALL consoles in the mission unusable by the enemy (e.g. spawn > find console in the initial empty tile > hack > freeze all consoles > alert an enemy > enemy tries to alert console > either fails or gets electrocute

 

Oh yis. And how about if you could turn off power in a room using a console? That would mean that lights go out, doors cease to function, and it puts the enemy units inside the room into a special alerted state. That would mean that they would behave like under alert, but their sights would be strongly limited, stealth kills would be allowed, and they could not alert other units outside the room until one of them fixes the power shortage in the given room?

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Oh yis. And how about if you could turn off power in a room using a console? That would mean that lights go out, doors cease to function, and it puts the enemy units inside the room into a special alerted state. That would mean that they would behave like under alert, but their sights would be strongly limited, stealth kills would be allowed, and they could not alert other units outside the room until one of them fixes the power shortage in the given room?

Great idea.......except there are consoles outdoors too, and all consoles are the same.

So basically a lockdown extended to.......a shutdown?

I like that.

Napalms will go berserk trying to "light up" the place (badum-tss!)

 

......but we have flashlights, and i suppose they would too. So without a togglable flashlight, either we're stuck in the dark too, or this would actually highlight us; ruining stealth.

And surely corpus/infested would detect tenno through other means (e.g. heat signatures).

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.) Add some kind of NVG- Overlay for the "Stealth- Mode" like Momaw sayd.

 

.) Alternative Paths are some times there but they aren`t connected Wardrum. ( Grineer ship room with the Orange Red reactor thingly)

This means you have to use the same doors like the enemies... Even a roller would alert every one.

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......but we have flashlights, and i suppose they would too. So without a togglable flashlight, either we're stuck in the dark too, or this would actually highlight us; ruining stealth.

And surely corpus/infested would detect tenno through other means (e.g. heat signatures).

Yes I only tought of that later. :\ But it seems like something that could be solved easily, e.g. with a mod called something like night vision, which would turn off your flashlight but would give you some sort of nightvision instead. (Or alternatively DE could just remove the flashlight idea entirely and turn to night vision.)

 

EDIT: And I'm not so sure about that they could detect the Tenno through any other means. Even now in the present we have materials that can dampen or entirely absorb any kind of heat, electrical or magnetic signature (just think about stealth bombers, recon ships and submarines). Since the game is set in the far future, I doubt that the warframes are not equipped fully with these cloaking technologies. [size=2](To support this theory: if corpus or infested units could detect us through other means, like heat signatures, why would they and their security equipment need direct line of sight to become aware of our presence? They would possibly sense us through thin surfaces or even walls and doors already.)[/size]

Edited by Wardrum
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It's amazing what extrasensory phenomenon lag can provide.

 

Anyway, they don't need direct line of sight - noise can trigger alert, EVEN A MISSED ARROW (which is silent) can cause alert (even if it doesn't fly past them).

 

Also, infested runners can still explode near you while you're invisible (not always).

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Stealth mission should be for solo play or max for 2 players... dont realy belive that if DEV team want to make it for 4 they change whole game mechanics....

 

2nd ... stealth mission should have much better revard that in normal mission when players make it in 5 min and you make it in 30 min

 

3th.. mission should have dificult lvl .. difrent mission difrent dificult lvl.. for eg. in dificult 1 you can turn off alarm many times, dificult 2 u can do it only 3 times, dificult 3 - 2 times, dificult 4 - once, dificult 5 - alarm = mission fail.

 

4th... in game stats, better reward for compleating special mission - you know now it .. 30 kill by rifle, pistol, 10 melee etc.. on stealth we should get somehing new... eg. "compleate mission without any kill", "compleate mission without any alarm" etc... for compleate this mission player shoudl get addition or better reward at the end...

 

5th.. player should get exp for all gear what he currently have,

 

why this point.. in stealth mission player usualy will play solo, will not kill = no exp=no drop etc. so reward should be equal for players who spend alot time to make mission on hard more = stealth is much much harder that any normal play - and get S#&$y reward at the end... btw . now in game we have no proper steath mission on option... im realy waiting for this kind of mission ... my Ash is ready .. full polar with proper weapon.. want make something realt hard.. spend time for this and get proper reward.... running mission by mission when each of it take 2-5min is a little bored...

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Anyway, they don't need direct line of sight - noise can trigger alert, EVEN A MISSED ARROW (which is silent) can cause alert (even if it doesn't fly past them).

 

Also, infested runners can still explode near you while you're invisible (not always).

Indeed. They are capable of sensing the player through the means of an average, ordinary human (like hearing, as you pointed it out, or noticing a 50 cm long arrow sticking out of a wall). Though I was pointing out that they can not sense a sneaking tenno within normal conditions, assuming they have human-like senses and the tenno operative aspires to accomplish a stealthy approach to complete a mission, thus focusing on certain obvious aspects, including but not limited to:

  • making the least noise possible,

     

  • avoiding open fights and trying to limit fighting to stealth kills,

     

  • avoiding large groups of enemies,

     

  • avoiding certain enemy types that can compromise the operative's cloak easily (e.g. Runners and Rollers, for they can easily break line of sight or simply explode near the operative).

     

If one plays the game on this basis, then the behavior of the enemy units will show, that neither the Corpus, nor the other two faction has any means to detect Tenno presence other than what an average human being posesses, because if they've had thermal or x-ray or magnetic vision or super hearing or bat-like ultra-sound detection or whatever all along, they would have already used those against us, yet they don't behave the way they supposedly would if they could spot the players in cover or behind walls and doors.

 

And, thanks to the lore, which implies that these factions both use technologies half-forgotten (as far as I know, the Corpus often treats technology as magic, worshipping the orokin technogy and relics), it is possible that even a pair of NV goggles could be considered a rare commodity. (Yeah. I know that would sound like some kind of lore-rape, just for the sake of justifying why the enemies can't see the players in the dark, but I think that it would worth it even just for the fun to implement a gameplay mechanic like this.)

 

TL;DR:That is all true, but the behaviour of enemy units already proved us many times that they don't have any other means to detect the Tenno than the eyesight and hearing of an ordinary human, thus I don't think they could detect us in the dark with - for example - heat vision or something extraordinary.

Edited by Wardrum
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Building on something that Lotus says in the middle of a mission... Why not have an actual "stealth mode". You activate stealth mode by putting away your weapons (hold down weapon swap key?). While in stealth you're a little harder to spot, you move faster, and your movements don't cause any sound. Obviously while in "combat mode", movements should not be silent.

 

Also, while you are in stealth, pressing your "attack" button causes you to throw something small to create a distraction. Enemies will become suspicious and investigate the sound you made, giving you an opportunity to slip around them or stab them in the back.

This sounds so obvious, yet so much fun!

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Lotus: Tenno, I have disabled all internal sensors for this mission.

The enemy will rely on line of sight, so if you tread carefully you will reach the objective undetected.

The vip must not know you are here, kill only when needed, zero bodycount will add.

time to extraction, unless you stealth kill.

Be on your guard, traps and Elite Guards patrol the Vip zone.

If you can, make your way to the controlroom and hack the network.

Good luck Tenno.

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hey, this gigathread is rather menancing when trying to approach the stealth issue in game. anyway i did on a exterminate since what i wanted most was a screenie for the vectis event.

 

i think my main issue is no means to identify "yellow" alerts or if the alert was activated. im hoping to do some more runs later, but by the look of it on OP, it wouldnt be needed.

 

 

best of luck. pehaps u11 will have some good news for us.

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Not sure if it was suggested yet or not but I think a great addition to stealth would be a harpoon gear slot item that would allow to get to the ceiling and cling to it and possibly to walls too, similar to a move in Tenchu 3

(couldn't find better quality video showing it).

 

I think harpoon wouldn't replace other ways to move around mainly cause its slower and you got to aim it first. It would be more useful for waiting as an enemy passes by or for setting up a stealth kill. When combined with wallrunning and jumping it could allow moving above the enemies in some areas without tiles being specially designed to allow it.

Edited by Gorzagorz
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STEALTH FEEDBACK & SUGGESTIONS THREAD

UPDATE 11-09-2013

 

MOST ANTICIPATED:

 

METAL GEAR ALERTS COOLDOWN + REWARD SYSTEM

 

direction enemy facing on hud when enemy radar is enabled example

 

STEALTH KILLS MUST BE INSTA-KILL no doubt, no discussion

the essence of weapons is how fast it may kill enemies. sneaking on enemies for stealth kills takes way more time than it takes to shoot enemy, so let's stop all this BS about "breaking the game" since it would not.

 

to balance it out - no stealth kills on bosses

everything else is just fine. even killing enemy while being invisible by ash and loki is fine. it's just 1-3 kills max.

but need to make sure you can't make stealth kills if enemies are alerted while you are clocked by shade.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------

STEALTH REWARD SYSTEM (end mission bonus)

if person completed whole mission undetected he recieve good xp + credits bonus wih penalties based on:

1) amount of enemies killed.

2) amount of alarms triggered. if person triggered more then 2 alarms he would not recieve end mission bonus.

3) if alarm(s) was/were longer then some ammount of time player don't recieve end mission stealth bonus at all.

this way player would not be able to get bonus turning off alarm in the end of mission.

all three together should prevent farming stealth bonus.

----------------------------------------------------------------

faction based bonus ratio

grineer: 100% ( default bonus value )

corpus: 150% ( increased bonus value due all the cameras and lasers and moas and drones and what not )

infested: 100% ( alarm mechanics required to prevent farming and make penalties work proper )

all 3 penalties apply to these ratios

----------------------------------------------------------------

Addition:

x5 xp for stealth kill (the one with animation)

----------------------------------------------------------------

being able to state that you are stealth player in future matchmaking system

----------------------------------------------------------------

bugs list / misc breakdowns

 

feedback on U9

 

1) can't perform stealth kills if enemy in new patrol animation

 

general bugs since closed beta

 

1) we need to be able to hack terminals to turn alert off.

2) decrease the amount of spawning enemies while undetected

3) doors should open from wider angle

3) ash skills should not cause alarm

4) make banshee sonar to show all enemies in ONE section PER USE.

5) Loki and Ash invisibility should cloak the Sentinel too

6) shade being detected while crouching. make enemies ignore shade while owner is crouching.

7) alarm is triggered instantly if location is damaged ship

8) alarm may get triggered even if there is no visual contact with tenno

9) can't perform stealth kills on bosses like captain Vor, even if you reach him completely undetected.

http://youtu.be/UjnVry0EqqY?t=10m55s

10) can't perform stealth kills on shield lancers

11) when client perform stealth kill he get spoted (range increased) MP STEALTH IS BROKEN BECAUSE OF IT. occurs quite often.

12) when guard see something suspicious he run straight to console or cover instead of investigating.

13) there is no stealth kills stat on end mission screen

14) Stealth kills could have a counter in your profile.

15) If you engage in a fight, the enemies on the next room will go to a cover and wait until you enter the room. These enemies become semi-alerted but don't go back to safe state and getting stuck next to wall

16) KUNAI CAUSE ALERT! http://youtu.be/qoHkAO2afCU ; http://youtu.be/fO1qY0OLIuE

17) we need to be able to destroy alarm terminals

18) heavy units should not be able to activate alarm

19) INSTAKILL ON STEALTH ATTACK

20) if you come to boss room undetected, boss stands alone.

----------------------------------------------------------------

misc suggestions

1) flashlight - being able to turn off warframe's flashlight to decrease chance of spoting

2) silent sidearms - crossbow / dual crossbows / throwable knives that don't impale enemies to walls, with curve trajectory

3) level restart option in solo.- just one more button in menu to restart level

4) being able to hang on edges http://youtu.be/cUDGMUJkJeY?t=3m47s

5) use cypher to turn alert off

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

best of stealth videos:

n7snk

newgame stealth playlist

xRoguex

200% stealth

100% stealth

Additions:

[Derp] Stealth Mini Manual

Only thing I'm curious of is the Grineer Sawmen or just any foe that has shields, since assasinating them only takes down their shield a bit and doesn't kill them, unless that's just due to low weapon damage or enemy has a higher shield.

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Only thing I'm curious of is the Grineer Sawmen or just any foe that has shields, since assasinating them only takes down their shield a bit and doesn't kill them, unless that's just due to low weapon damage or enemy has a higher shield.

its a bit of both. even at level 1 a regular grineer has about 55 HP but the sawman has 50 HP and 100 shields.

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I may have a few improvements:

Decrease stealth kill time to 1/4

Allow hacking into the lighting and other services of the ship

Replace the flashlight with an orokin-based detection power

Enemies facing away could be killed silently

 

And for exterminate missions, there would be a certain terminal near the extraction point that detonates the ship while you escape, but it will only work if the alarm never goes off.

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oooh man, I would so love to hack a terminal to change the targetting of the Corpus Cameras. As well as those "moa dispensers". We all know that Tenno is good at hacking stuff so why not take it further?

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http://youtu.be/da8sw8VHHTw

 

i know noone should care to such a sloppy run but i really wanted to push without loki or ash. i think the hardest part was to cope with the small radar from the aura.

 

what of a possibility to sabotage a security pannel? like if a grineer walks over to it, a trip mine blows him/her up.

Any explosive should ruin stealth missions, despite what ogris users claim. Disabling it should suffice.

 

Stealth mods, anyone? like -% footstep sounds for the frames. And turning alarms off would be great.

We are already very silent. If you dont touch a enemy you can even run up to him. rather useful to do quick charge attacks, but the distance is rather difficult to get it right.

 

I may have a few improvements:

Decrease stealth kill time to 1/4

Allow hacking into the lighting and other services of the ship

Replace the flashlight with an orokin-based detection power

Enemies facing away could be killed silently

 

And for exterminate missions, there would be a certain terminal near the extraction point that detonates the ship while you escape, but it will only work if the alarm never goes off.

 

it seems the lights do not affect enemies sight. quite a pity, could give volt or hacking into the lights of the tileset a use.

 

exploding the ship could be a bit much, but a means to know if you have not raised the alarm at the end of the mission sounds really cool. could be the reward as well, hacking the console could give something like 1k affinity.

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Ok, 57 pages is a lot for a newb to sort through, so I guess I'll just risk repeating what someone else has said.

 

The way I see it, once this game inserts stealth it will be a real 3rd person shooter instead of just being a typical RPG grinder. Don't get me wrong, it's fun, but still, the more free-form this game becomes, the more options it gets for tackling any given mission, the more replayability it will have.

 

What I'd like to see is for each faction to demand different stealth strategies, which probably goes against the above statement about more tactical freedom, but considering the differences between factions I'd say it should be okay.

 

Since the Corpus have security cameras and a few other automated security systems, they should be more of a Metal Gear Solid type of stealth system in which a successful stealth mission relies on evading line of sight, particularly security cameras.

 

Since the Grineer are so low tech and ad-hoc their arsenal, winning a stealth mission for them should involve hiding in the shadows and using technological advantages, like Splinter Cell.

 

As for Infested, I figure either you wall- run everywhere or maybe stealth doesn't matter for them. Maybe the only reason you do an infested mission is to rack up kills. Or maybe you do the zombie stealth thing where all you have to do is walk slow and avoid eye contact. That's more of a Left 4 Dead thing.

 

Orokin tech is probably too advanced for stealth. I dunno, haven't thought about them much.

 

Also I think all frames should be able to do a stealth mission, but frames like Loki and Ash should find it easier and quicker to complete such a mission.

Edited by Styros
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There needs to be some mods too that help enhance stealth gameplay. I know that they added hush, but they definately could expand. Stealth mods could exist such that your less likely to be seen (Enemy viewing codes shrink by x meters), or your sentinal flies lower to the ground with a mod, or your damage increases by x amount if the enemy is unalearted. Heck, I would like to see a mod that combinds hush with a critical chance increase.

 

I agree with all other points, stealth is a very underused aspect of the game, especially online where run and gun is all anyone ever does.

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Guys... 57 pages... And no one at DE is giving damn about stealth... This post started many months ago and still DE don't changed a thing about stealth... I also already posted some ideas for stealth on this thread but it is clear that DE will not move a finger about it... So if anyone can lock this thread it will be nice, since in the past few months since this thread was created DE didn't even thought about it for too long and just slap some non-reliable stealth system on the game...

 

Edit: Not trying to be rude, just saying that the thread already gave everything it could give... But no one on the higher ranks of DE gives a damn about it (It became crystal clear after the first three months after stealth was introduced and they don't try to get it better).

Edited by VelenoHargreaves
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http://youtu.be/da8sw8VHHTw

 

i know noone should care to such a sloppy run but i really wanted to push without loki or ash. i think the hardest part was to cope with the small radar from the aura.

 

Any explosive should ruin stealth missions, despite what ogris users claim. Disabling it should suffice.

 

We are already very silent. If you dont touch a enemy you can even run up to him. rather useful to do quick charge attacks, but the distance is rather difficult to get it right.

 

 

it seems the lights do not affect enemies sight. quite a pity, could give volt or hacking into the lights of the tileset a use.

 

exploding the ship could be a bit much, but a means to know if you have not raised the alarm at the end of the mission sounds really cool. could be the reward as well, hacking the console could give something like 1k affinity.

 

Noticed you never used shoulder swap in your video. You took some riskier shots than you had to in places when you could shoulder swap and corner-snipe with impunity without risking being spotted.

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