Stealth Feedback & Suggestions Thread

[CubedOobleck]

Beyond what each ability does the big problem with stealth is the AI.

I think AI should have 3 alert behaviors and they affect all the enemies in a room.

1 'No one arround': Enemies patrol the area lazily (what they do when you first enter the ship).

2 'We know you are somewhere': Enemies look for you franticly but randmoly and are overall harder to sneak up to.

Things that should make enemies in a room go form the 1st behavior to the 2nd should be stuff like them finding a corpse before it disappears, hearing gunshots in their room, seeing you from afar or you failing at hacking a computer in the room.

3 'We know where you are': The normal fighting behavior, enemies will try to get you in their line of sight to shoot you, will use cover, ect; however the enemies will do this only against the players who do anything that triggers this behavior (this to allow stealth even if not everyone if acting stealthly).

Things that should trigger the 3rd behavior should be stuff like them spotting a player from close/mid range, hearing gunshots from close range, ect.

An important thing, I think, is that enemies should not revert from 2 to 1 (except maybe if enough time passes with no players in that room or any adiecent rooms), it's just stupid that after some time passes they just forget there was an enemy around, however alerts should scale through rooms so if in one room they are in the 3rd behavior in adiecent rooms they will be in the 2nd behavior and in farther rooms they will keep their 1st behavior. Also reverting a behavior from 3 to 2 should be difficult and it could require the player to leave the room for a while or using an ability such as excalibur's radial blind or most of loki's skills.

Some objectives could cause a behavior change too, for example destroying a core could automatically lock the behavior to 2.

Edited January 24, 2013 by CubedOobleck

[Kaiku]

What bugs me a bit is the fact that if an enemy sees you, all enemies know where your are for the rest of the game, even if you break the line of sight.

There could be a short timer once the line of sight is broken, and when the timer ends, the location where you are at that moment, is the point where the enemies think you are.

This resets if they see you again.

[B42e]

It would be better that enemies in certain radius of eachother would know where you are when they see you, and if you kill them no one is after you, but of course if they alerted more guards on the scene then they just patrol the area.

[johncage]

the enemy have eagle vision as well. give them a much smaller fov and view distance and many of these issues related to inability to sneak will be solved.

[_Chaser]

fov is just alright when you are crouching. and if you are not - you are supposed to be spoted. i can't provide any feedback if patchfinding was changed or not, same as for skills, since i was quite busy recently. but if anyone noticed any changes, please provide a feedback.

[LordTomS]

Actually the challenge has always been there, but no one ever notices or is able to finish it because it's impossible

You can easily do it against Corpus, the Cameras are easy targets that counts as an undetected kill as long as it hasn't seen you yet(I.E turned red).

[buluperindu]

Simple request.

There are no female characters? Not like a female (or weird creatures) ...

like eating without salt. ^^

Edited January 26, 2013 by buluperindu

[V1RTU5]

Simple request.

There are no female characters? Not like a female (or weird creatures) ...^

trinity, mag, ember are female.now if your requesting a stealthy female frame thats different and i would think thats fair.

[Oxidine]

On the whole stealth subject i think that a stealth system like on tenchu would be fun as crap when implemented in this game. One thing that I find missing from all characters is the ability to go "stealth". Every now and then ill get the "get X stealth kills" and its rather annoying considering you cant go stealth when you have a heavy weapon I.E. the hammer.

Ideas for stealth considering weapons:

Additions

Cloak (secondary/melee?): weapon or device. Allows you to hide up against walls sorta as ninjas did back in the day able to mimic the surroundings. Primary would probably be an attack if melee would be like a net? Secondary would be the stealth. (needs criticism) http://photos1.blogg...9_large_oc2.jpg

Grapple hook (secondary): now one thing i LOVED in stealth related games was the ability to grab on to objects (usually the ceiling) and be able to traverse it as a viable terrain. http://www.youtube.c...h?v=7WEvdThRMk0

Vibro Wire (melee): Some stealth games have a type of wire used for close up range usually resulting in 1 hit kills, now wouldn’t it be nice to be able to have a melee weapon make for stealth kills? Primary attack would be either a normal swing or a pull (sorta like scorpion from mortal combat), now this would be handy if used with stun mods so they don’t set an alarm? Charge would be able to be able slice enemies in half (1-2) any more would be OP.

Edits

Enemy sensor should show the view cones of enemies.

Criticism is good however dont be hostile :3 thank you.

Edited January 27, 2013 by Oxidine

[Tetsmeha]

Having a cloak weapon would make Loki and Ash invisbility pretty obsolete. But having a sort of camoflage/shadow system would be neat.

A grapple hook would be tons of fun if the upcoming maps are as open as Tenchu maps, and of course support the gameplay.

Wire is kinda useless because sword kills would do the same thing.

[Oxidine]

Having a cloak weapon would make Loki and Ash invisbility pretty obsolete. But having a sort of camoflage/shadow system would be neat.

A grapple hook would be tons of fun if the upcoming maps are as open as Tenchu maps, and of course support the gameplay.

Wire is kinda useless because sword kills would do the same thing.

1. you have a point but i was thinking a type of camo that would have to be used on walls as to ash and loki can use theirs anywhere, but i get your point.

2.hellz yea

3. it was a try XD

Edited January 27, 2013 by Oxidine

[Hikaratu]

The very first step in the direction of enhancing stealth gameplay if that is truely desired should be to make each enemy have an individual awareness, so if 1 grineer in a closet sees you, the rest dont neccisarily know you're there. If a lone enemy spots you he should basically make a break for an alarm the same way they do to lock out rooms ocasionally, and then if the alarm is hit at that point the other enemies will know you're there. From the point where the enemies aren't a crazy hivemind it gets much easier to do smaller tweaks to fine tune the stealth gameplay.

[Frootloup]

Really the big gripes I have now are the instant activated alarms. the fact that there are multiple control panels in each room just makes it that much more impossible to interrupt a bad guy from running and hitting the alarm. A way to hack in and cancel the alert would be appreciated as well though currently that would be a bit overpowered due to there being a panel every 5 meters. Perhaps if they had a "Security office", something with a larger control console you could make your way over to cancel the alarms. It'd give a fun little optional side objective should you be spotted.

I've yet to get through a mission undetected but it's been close a few times. For me it's not even about the rewards. Sometimes it's just fun to play like that and definitely makes me feel more like a badass space ninja :).

The other would definitely be a request for silencers or just a "Mod: Increase sound suppression by %20". The Snipetron already sounds silenced, but I don't think that it affects gameplay.

Having some more catwalks or ledges that you could use to navigate rooms and get the drop on bad guys would be good to add in too. That would potentially allow people to actually use the Excalibur super jump.

[V1RTU5]

Having a cloak weapon would make Loki and Ash invisbility pretty obsolete. But having a sort of camoflage/shadow system would be neat.

A grapple hook would be tons of fun if the upcoming maps are as open as Tenchu maps, and of course support the gameplay.

Wire is kinda useless because sword kills would do the same thing.

a cloak wep (like a silenced pistle) would not make loki or ash obsolete due to thier stealth dealing auto crits. while somthing like a silenced pistle would not. imo a grappleing hook would make the excal jump usless. simularly how the medkits work magic around trinitys abilitys due to it directly efecting thier hp and not costing a drop of energy.

[_Chaser]

something like that. i'm in love with tenchu 2

Having some more catwalks or ledges that you could use to navigate rooms and get the drop on bad guys would be good to add in too. That would potentially allow people to actually use the Excalibur super jump.

there are couple of places that allow you to do so right now, but surely we need more

and regarding camo on walls that remind me octocamo in mgs 4 ;)

sorry, i was a tad busy on weekends so could not test out if skills of various frames cause detection.

Edited January 28, 2013 by n7snk

[Torguish]

I fully support this thread.

Altho i'd like to add some things:

- Silencer MOD for guns like sniper/rifle/pistol. Better mods define how much they silence your weapon. EG. [Gunshot sound distance -22 yards]

- Alternative routes eg. Air vents on higher ground (For getting around those 2-man-alerting-doors.)

- Backstab should have an ''assassination'' animation. A really quick one tho.

- Drop assassinations, would be awesome.

- Stealth being a ''challenge'', like you mentioned. Completely optional but still motivates players to do them.

- Some weapons better for stealth than others like swords and daggers. I mean come on, a huge hammer/boxing gloves or an axe won't work. :P

- Not in infestation stages, it would feel weird. I mean those things are horded beasts, you are suppost to wreck through them.

- Able to take down cameras by hacking control panels. I mean, shooting them while doing a stealth run would be funky.

- Not being in light = harder to be detected. As Loki has that skill where he explodes all electrical things, would be extremely useful since it would take down lights etc.

- Bigger rewards for compensation on the things lost when not killing everything and everyone.

*EDIT*

Just got a neat idea, at least i think so. :D

- Stealth Weapons

How?

- Extra weapon slot for swords/daggers. ''Stealth weapon'' slot.

- Stealth MODs & Upgrades. EG: Backstab damage | Assassination Speed | Noise reduction.

Why?

- Because there will be situation when 1 enemy sees you and you can kill him before he can alert the others.

- Weapons like huge Axes and Hammers generate a significant amount of noise, possibly alerting other enemies on board.

- Taking in notice these issues, this allows you to regain from your mistake, without having to resort to head-on combat during missions.

- Still having the possibility to go head-on-combat with weapons that are better suited for situations like these. If you get bored of stealth or get detected and don't want to restart the mission. EG: Random events.

Hopefully you like the ideas! :) Will be folowing your post.

Edited January 29, 2013 by Torguish

[CaptainHugeKatana]

CTRL + Q to Enable/Disable GoPhoto.it

I think sleath is really that this game needs.

Feedback: If you guys really wana pick up some sleath idea,I recommend you to play Mark of the ninja first game with ninjas that is totaly sleath!

[Oxidine]

I fully support this thread.

Altho i'd like to add some things:

- Silencer MOD for guns like sniper/rifle/pistol. Better mods define how much they silence your weapon. EG. [Gunshot sound distance -22 yards]

- Alternative routes eg. Air vents on higher ground (For getting around those 2-man-alerting-doors.)

- Backstab should have an ''assassination'' animation. A really quick one tho.

- Drop assassinations, would be awesome.

- Stealth being a ''challenge'', like you mentioned. Completely optional but still motivates players to do them.

- Some weapons better for stealth than others like swords and daggers. I mean come on, a huge hammer/boxing gloves or an axe won't work. :P

- Not in infestation stages, it would feel weird. I mean those things are horded beasts, you are suppost to wreck through them.

- Able to take down cameras by hacking control panels. I mean, shooting them while doing a stealth run would be funky.

- Not being in light = harder to be detected. As Loki has that skill where he explodes all electrical things, would be extremely useful since it would take down lights etc.

- Bigger rewards for compensation on the things lost when not killing everything and everyone.

Hopefully you like the ideas! :) Will be folowing your post.

you forgot to change the game settings so you dont get stealth missions on infestation levels

[Torguish]

you forgot to change the game settings so you dont get stealth missions on infestation levels

Umm.. theres this:

- Not in infestation stages

:P

[Torguish]

Just got a neat idea, at least i think so. :D

- Stealth Weapons

How?

- Extra weapon slot for swords/daggers. ''Stealth weapon'' slot.

- Stealth MODs & Upgrades. EG: Backstab damage | Assassination Speed | Noise reduction.

Why?

- Because there will be situation when 1 enemy sees you and you can kill him before he can alert the others.

- Weapons like huge Axes and Hammers generate a significant amount of noise, possibly alerting other enemies on board.

- Taking in notice these issues, this allows you to regain from your mistake, without having to resort to head-on combat during missions.

- Still having the possibility to go head-on-combat with weapons that are better suited for situations like these. If you get bored of stealth or get detected and don't want to restart the mission. EG: Random events.

[Oxidine]

Just got a neat idea, at least i think so. :D

- Stealth Weapons

How?

- Extra weapon slot for swords/daggers. ''Stealth weapon'' slot.

- Stealth MODs & Upgrades. EG: Backstab damage | Assassination Speed | Noise reduction.

Why?

- Because there will be situation when 1 enemy sees you and you can kill him before he can alert the others.

- Weapons like huge Axes and Hammers generate a significant amount of noise, possibly alerting other enemies on board.

- Taking in notice these issues, this allows you to regain from your mistake, without having to resort to head-on combat during missions.

- Still having the possibility to go head-on-combat with weapons that are better suited for situations like these. If you get bored of stealth or get detected and don't want to restart the mission. EG: Random events.

or so people say, i did a steath run the other night with my fraggor (the heavy hammer) and got about 10 steath kills XD

this game needs a noice sensor as well as a way to tell how much noise you are making.

[Torguish]

or so people say, i did a steath run the other night with my fraggor (the heavy hammer) and got about 10 steath kills XD

this game needs a noice sensor as well as a way to tell how much noise you are making.

I know but i'm stating that it shouldn't be like this :P At least i don't think so..

[Tetsmeha]

I'm guessing stealth wasn't inplemented in the newest update? Kinda sad when these are core gameplay mechanics being discussed and all that's added is new equips and a new map.

[Torguish]

I'm guessing stealth wasn't inplemented in the newest update? Kinda sad when these are core gameplay mechanics being discussed and all that's added is new equips and a new map.

I did notice i can do a wallrun.. :D Prince of persia style :P

[_Chaser]

well if people other then me were testing out more stuff and provide critism, we could get it faster, but since i have a job and don't always have time to play we have what we have.

Edited January 30, 2013 by n7snk