Stealth Feedback & Suggestions Thread

[Megakoresh]

In addition, coming from a long-time stealth game player (Thief, Splinter Cell, Deus Ex HR):

 

- Instant Detection must NOT happen unless at point black range.

- Cones of vision mod.

- Path prediction mod (may combine it with cones of vision).

- Ability for ALL frames to see enemies through walls (Duration-based, not toggle on/off, should cost very little, like 5 NRG, as you won't get much energy drops in stealth. Of course I'd rather they took away the RNG orbs and just let the NRG regen at a healthy pace to make it skill-based...).

- NO Cell-wide alert when one enemy spots you. Only if the enemy has fired off a few bullets.

- NO instaspot and fire on enemies. They should kinda stagger when they see you, act surprised and then realise that you are an enemy and start shooting, so if you isolated and enemy from it's peers you have the chance to pop from the corner and melee them head-on.

- Attract enemies by shooting at walls/destroying containers.

- LET PLAYERS HIDE.

    - If you have hacked a MOA that went on a rampage, they should not alert the whole @(*()$ based and instantly know where you are all of sudden. MOA might have just glitched.

    - Let it rampage for a little, enemies should kill it and then get into alert state, but NOT trigger alarm or know your position.

    - If you have alerted an enemy, and ran away let them return to alert state, NOT chase you all around the base and spawn every-@(*()$-where knowing where you are. It's infuriating and 100% unfair.

- Last but not least: REWORK the alarm mechanic. Make it attract enemies from adjacent cells, but do NOT spawn extra ones and do NOT let them always know player's location. If an alarm was activated, it should make it more difficult to escape or fight through the specific area WHERE it was activated. Not the whole friggin base and not give all enemies a magical radar like you have. They aren't space ninja. Don't overpower the plebs.

 

And I second all the ideas in the OP.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Megakoresh

[azmyth1]

Enemies need to react to being shot/stabbed, and to having their comrades cut down right in front of them.

 

Also, enemies need to react more to sound.  If an invisible warframe is running by them, perhaps they could go to a semi alerted state.  If there is gunfire as well, trigger the alarm.  Right now Loki makes stealth too easy. but if sound played a bigger role, it wouldn't be so bad.

[Recel]

In addition, coming from a long-time stealth game player (Thief, Splinter Cell, Deus Ex HR):

 

- Instant Detection must NOT happen unless at point black range.

- Cones of vision mod.

- Path prediction mod (may combine it with cones of vision).

- Ability for ALL frames to see enemies through walls (Duration-based, not toggle on/off, should cost very little, like 5 NRG, as you won't get much energy drops in stealth. Of course I'd rather they took away the RNG orbs and just let the NRG regen at a healthy pace to make it skill-based...).

- NO Cell-wide alert when one enemy spots you. Only if the enemy has fired off a few bullets.

- NO instaspot and fire on enemies. They should kinda stagger when they see you, act surprised and then realise that you are an enemy and start shooting, so if you isolated and enemy from it's peers you have the chance to pop from the corner and melee them head-on.

- Attract enemies by shooting at walls/destroying containers.

- LET PLAYERS HIDE.

    - If you have hacked a MOA that went on a rampage, they should not alert the whole @(*()$ based and instantly know where you are all of sudden. MOA might have just glitched.

    - Let it rampage for a little, enemies should kill it and then get into alert state, but NOT trigger alarm or know your position.

    - If you have alerted an enemy, and ran away let them return to alert state, NOT chase you all around the base and spawn every-@(*()$-where knowing where you are. It's infuriating and 100% unfair.

- Last but not least: REWORK the alarm mechanic. Make it attract enemies from adjacent cells, but do NOT spawn extra ones and do NOT let them always know player's location. If an alarm was activated, it should make it more difficult to escape or fight through the specific area WHERE it was activated. Not the whole friggin base and not give all enemies a magical radar like you have. They aren't space ninja. Don't overpower the plebs.

 

And I second all the ideas in the OP.

 

I mostly agree, except for field of vision and path prediction mods.

 

Enemies field of vision is esentially a cone, or a piramid. It's really hard to show visually without becomng an obstruction, and also, in a 3D game, especially with an offset camera, it would be hard to read.

 

Path prediction mod, I don't think is really needed. In my oppinion, it would take away part of the fun/challange of stealth. In Thief and Thief 2, part of the game was figuring out the enemies patrol paths. Where they go, where they don't, and move around accordingly. You wouldn't need to think as much if you already knew the guy walking down the hallway will turn around midway.

In stealth games it always created interesting scenarios when an enemy changed paths, or when the one guy who just stood there suddenly started to go somewhere when you didn't expect him to.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Recel

[_Chaser]

In addition, coming from a long-time stealth game player (Thief, Splinter Cell, Deus Ex HR):

 

- Instant Detection must NOT happen unless at point black range.

it's already like that

 

- Cones of vision mod.

 

- Path prediction mod (may combine it with cones of vision).

it will make stealth boring

 

- Ability for ALL frames to see enemies through walls (Duration-based, not toggle on/off, should cost very little, like 5 NRG, as you won't get much energy drops in stealth. Of course I'd rather they took away the RNG orbs and just let the NRG regen at a healthy pace to make it skill-based...).

codex scaner is your friend

 

- NO Cell-wide alert when one enemy spots you. Only if the enemy has fired off a few bullets.

will be terribly easy

 

- NO instaspot and fire on enemies. They should kinda stagger when they see you, act surprised and then realise that you are an enemy and start shooting, so if you isolated and enemy from it's peers you have the chance to pop from the corner and melee them head-on.

whats fun in stealth if there are no consequences of messing up?..

 

- Attract enemies by shooting at walls/destroying containers.

already implemented

 

- LET PLAYERS HIDE.

you can

 

    - If you have hacked a MOA that went on a rampage, they should not alert the whole @(*()$ based and instantly know where you are all of sudden. MOA might have just glitched.

 

    - Let it rampage for a little, enemies should kill it and then get into alert state, but NOT trigger alarm or know your position.

 

    - If you have alerted an enemy, and ran away let them return to alert state, NOT chase you all around the base and spawn every-@(*()$-where knowing where you are. It's infuriating and 100% unfair.

whats fun in stealth if there are no consequences of messing up?.. ai behaviour after spoting you it's absolutely fair. what you propose is to take a candy from a baby.

 

- Last but not least: REWORK the alarm mechanic. Make it attract enemies from adjacent cells, but do NOT spawn extra ones and do NOT let them always know player's location. If an alarm was activated, it should make it more difficult to escape or fight through the specific area WHERE it was activated. Not the whole friggin base and not give all enemies a magical radar like you have. They aren't space ninja. Don't overpower the plebs.

again you don't want to have consequences for messing up. thats just sad. especially for avid stealth player you claim to be.

[Recel]

 

*snip*

 

I'll go point by point as I'm not going to double quote.

 

Instan detection happens on any range. Only when not alerted, the enemies vision is small (and wierd sometimes). Which isn't the problem. The problem is, every other guy instantly knows where you are, where you go, what you ate that day, how you look, who's your girlfriend and what's he number of your creditcard when that happens.

They don't just go allerted and check the spot you were at when spoted, but they will know where you are from that point up untill the timer in their AI tells them they are not on alert anymore. Which shouldn't happen untill they hit the allarm.

 

Cone of vision/path detection mods, see post above yours.

 

Yes, codex scanners. I totally forgot about those for a second. Tho it seems that enemies you scanned fully do not show up on it since last patch.

 

By cell wide allert I think he refers to the way AI know everything about you the second the allert goes off. I know Lotus says "You're on the scanners", but from a stealth point of view, it's not really good if you can't hide again untill you kill everyone in a room, anyone who spawns and moves in the room and only THAN shut down the allert to make sure they don't instantly turn it back on, because allert on or off, the AI will know where you are, and untill their allerted state wears off they act the same way as if you were standing in the open.

 

Mobs shouldn't instantly set the whole ship on alert if they see a Tenno boot sticking out from behind a crate a mile away. They need different ranges of vision where they act differently. A short one, where they near instantly react if they see you. A medium one where theres a short "what is that phase" before they freak out. And a long one, where they don't know what they see, so they move in to investigate.

OR you should have a way to know how visable you are from which you can judge from how far they cn spot you.

Not being able to know if you're hidden or not =/= messing up.

 

Shooting at wall or containers will sure attract enemies instantly... to you. It doesn't works as a way of distraction. It works as a self triggered "I'm here!" button.

 

AI behavior is not fair because if the allert sets of the sensors the broadcast your possition, than after turning it off, the enemy will lose track of you, right? No. They know where you are untill their allerted timer resets, which is tied to their field of view. The only reason it might seem like they don't know is because they move behind various covers, not advancing much... just like during a battle.

 

Thinking about it, I half agree with you here. While the allert lasts, mobs should move in and you are on sensors. But if you turn it off, and you're not in the line of sight of any enemies, they should lose their ability to track your movement without line of sight.

 

But messing up in stealth is one thing.

Messing up because of unpredictable detection, or because mobs seem to gravitate towards you even tho they are not on alert, or because you can't dispatch foes easily from behind cover on your left side, or because you spawn on top of them at the start of the mission, or because they turn on the allert again after you shut it down even tho they never saw you themself, or some of them "forget" to drop their allerted status after you done all that an waited an hour, or they are allerted the instant they spawn into the map (I'm looking at MOAs here!), or they get stuck in a corner and spin around like an idiot creating a 360 degree allert lamp in a place you wouldn't even think to look in...  

 

I can't even list you all the faulty detection methods, all the AI problems and level design errors I found in this game while doing "stealth" missions that make sure you get detected and an allert goes off with you not having a chance to avoid it, or straight out don't know what's going on.

 

The consiquence of messing up should come from you. YOU should mess up, and break the stealth run. NOT the game.

And to do that you need reliable mechanics you can count with, instead of doing guess work and hoping for the best.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Recel

[XRAY0128]

In addition, coming from a long-time stealth game player (Thief, Splinter Cell, Deus Ex HR):

- Instant Detection must NOT happen unless at point black range.

it's already like that

- Cones of vision mod.

- Path prediction mod (may combine it with cones of vision).

it will make stealth boring

- Ability for ALL frames to see enemies through walls (Duration-based, not toggle on/off, should cost very little, like 5 NRG, as you won't get much energy drops in stealth. Of course I'd rather they took away the RNG orbs and just let the NRG regen at a healthy pace to make it skill-based...).

codex scaner is your friend

- NO Cell-wide alert when one enemy spots you. Only if the enemy has fired off a few bullets.

will be terribly easy

- NO instaspot and fire on enemies. They should kinda stagger when they see you, act surprised and then realise that you are an enemy and start shooting, so if you isolated and enemy from it's peers you have the chance to pop from the corner and melee them head-on.

whats fun in stealth if there are no consequences of messing up?..

- Attract enemies by shooting at walls/destroying containers.

already implemented

- LET PLAYERS HIDE.

you can

- If you have hacked a MOA that went on a rampage, they should not alert the whole @(*()$ based and instantly know where you are all of sudden. MOA might have just glitched.

- Let it rampage for a little, enemies should kill it and then get into alert state, but NOT trigger alarm or know your position.

- If you have alerted an enemy, and ran away let them return to alert state, NOT chase you all around the base and spawn every-@(*()$-where knowing where you are. It's infuriating and 100% unfair.

whats fun in stealth if there are no consequences of messing up?.. ai behaviour after spoting you it's absolutely fair. what you propose is to take a candy from a baby.

- Last but not least: REWORK the alarm mechanic. Make it attract enemies from adjacent cells, but do NOT spawn extra ones and do NOT let them always know player's location. If an alarm was activated, it should make it more difficult to escape or fight through the specific area WHERE it was activated. Not the whole friggin base and not give all enemies a magical radar like you have. They aren't space ninja. Don't overpower the plebs.

again you don't want to have consequences for messing up. thats just sad. especially for avid stealth player you claim to be.

Its not, if they see you at any range, they instantly go active and run for the alarms/open fire.

Codex Scanner only spots enemies you don't have completely scanned now, or so I hear.

It makes no sense for everyone to know where you are jusst because one guy spotted you a nano-second before having a knife stuck in his throat.

I am convinced you are only saying crap like this because you run loki. Maybe you can sneak right into an enemies face without him seeing you, but thats impossible for anyone not using Ash/Loki/Shade. If you pop out infront of an enemy, and he didnt know you were there before, he should/would be surprised.

Shooting containers alerts enemies and makes them run for the alarm.

You can hide if you're malafreaking Loki or Ash. Otherwise, the AI can spot your foot sticking around a corner from across the room. Then the run for the alarm.

If the alarm is active, and they CAN'T FIND YOU, its only logical that they stop searching. 'Course, as the Loki player you are, you can just walk right up to them and kill them anyway, so its no issue to you.

Further more, it makes no sense for an alarm in one room to cause enemies to know where you are even though you have moved out of that room. Spawning extra enemies is a broken mechanic anyway, especially how they spawn in previously cleared rooms, alert or no alert. Which makes stealth even more of a pain... Unless you're Ash/Loki.

Also, still no defense for opening a door and realizing there is an entire enemy squad just standing around staring at it

Edited May 3, 2014 by XRAY0128

[Syzodia]

I'll just pop my opinion here, as a non-loki/ash player (but i use shade when attempting stealth runs):

-when the map is not in an alarmed state, there IS a range limit before the enemy sees you. It is roughly a cone/sector on the front about 100° wide with a range of 15m. (Tested with waypointing). I haven't tested for altitude yet, but I estimate it to be upto 8m high.

 

-Yes, codex scanners no longer help with fully scanned enemies/objects. For now, waypointing is all you can do (and only for one target :/)

 

-slightly off-topic, but don't be blaming loki or ash players. They're specialised for stealth for a reason. Likewise with shade sentinels. That said, stealth should be possible for all loadouts, just easier with loki/ash/shade, which it isn't right now.

 

-Main issue is detection/awareness -

Enemies can GPS-track you once detected (mostly)

Enemies can GPS-track you when an ally of yours (MOA) is detected.

Enemies can GPS-Track you when a  fellow TENNO of yours is detected (who's to say you can't stealth attack someone who's attacking your friend? they shouldn't know you're there..)

No way to set a distracting sound source....other than meleeing a wall, which doesn't always work.

And activating a door from a distance (or at least be able to see through it).

Similarly, enemies can't detect you through windows, which is quite funny.

[SFkenny]

Banshee is a decent choice for Rescue 2.0 because her Sonar and Silence skills are quite handy to keep track of enemy Wardens and have a shot at dispatching them in one hit at range.

 

That said, the stealth is far, far too bare bones and outside of the prison tile the maps have no alternate paths or duct work to use to sneak about. Immensely disappointing event thus far.

[AuroraSonicBoom]

That said, the stealth is far, far too bare bones and outside of the prison tile the maps have no alternate paths or duct work to use to sneak about. Immensely disappointing event thus far.

 

 

Well, as far as obstacles to hide behind go, a dynamic placement system for boxes, crates and other objects that would usually be at the same spot in a tile would go a long way in making stealth fun long term. If some of the objects you use for cover had a chance of spawning in another spot in the tile in the next mission it'd take way more time to learn every combination of spawns to navigate the tiles in stealth.

[Recel]

I'd like to write another list of bugs/problems I have encountered with the current stealth system. Some I'll leave out as they were mentioned pleanty of times before.

 

 

 

After allerted enemeis run to cover, but after they are back to normal they tend to not leave their cover. This can be a big problem when they take cover in door frames, as they don't always make the door open up.

 

Corpus cameras, while visually indicate that they are loking in a downwards angle, are actually looking forward,with a very long detection range at some tile sets (The 90 degree stairs down, stairs up tile for instance).

 

Some player skills that seem loud are silent, while some that seem silent are really loud tothe enemies. (Embers fireball is a stealth weapon forinstance)

 

Sometimes newly spawned corpus MOAs will instantly rush to your possition, even tho they were never allerted. Reason is unknown.

 

Some objects don't seem to obstruct the enemies vision. (The reinforced rails I talked about earlier)

 

Enemies seem to gain the ability to see behind them during the animation where they check their guns/gear.

 

Very rarely an enemie goes on to an alerted state after being stealth killed by a melee weapon before they die, allerting others. Reason is unknown.

 

It is possible to spawn in to a mission where the enemies spawn right next door (on medium sized Corpus titles mostly), opening it and instantly spoting you in the first few seconds of the mission.

 

Enemies detection range seems to increase/decrease by elevation on certain tiles (the same way corpus cameras can scan over you and not see you, or in some cases see you across a large room while up on a catwalk)

 

Mayor Edit:

 

Reading another thread here also reminded me of one, if not the biggest problem that is in the way of stealth gameplay.

 

Yet again, the massive scale difference between mobs, warframes and weapons.

Untill it's so easy to survive a compleate barage of bullets and lasers, and untill we can clear a room before any enemy would be alerted, let alone get to a consol, stealth won't work.

 

No amont of AI, stealth mechanics or tile changes would make stealth actually rewarding or challenging, if you can just mass murder any number of enemies than hit the console and continue. Also with any mechanics, for most people it would still fall back into crouch walking and one shoting everythng with a bow.

We would once again have to invent our own rules to make it a challenge, just like now.

Edited May 3, 2014 by Recel

[unknow99]

I'll just pop my opinion here, as a non-loki/ash player (but i use shade when attempting stealth runs):

-when the map is not in an alarmed state, there IS a range limit before the enemy sees you. It is roughly a cone/sector on the front about 100° wide with a range of 15m. (Tested with waypointing). I haven't tested for altitude yet, but I estimate it to be upto 8m high.

 

-Yes, codex scanners no longer help with fully scanned enemies/objects. For now, waypointing is all you can do (and only for one target :/)

 

-slightly off-topic, but don't be blaming loki or ash players. They're specialised for stealth for a reason. Likewise with shade sentinels. That said, stealth should be possible for all loadouts, just easier with loki/ash/shade, which it isn't right now.

 

-Main issue is detection/awareness -

Enemies can GPS-track you once detected (mostly)

Enemies can GPS-track you when an ally of yours (MOA) is detected.

Enemies can GPS-Track you when a  fellow TENNO of yours is detected (who's to say you can't stealth attack someone who's attacking your friend? they shouldn't know you're there..)

No way to set a distracting sound source....other than meleeing a wall, which doesn't always work.

And activating a door from a distance (or at least be able to see through it).

Similarly, enemies can't detect you through windows, which is quite funny.

1) Words of wisdom right here : LokiMasterRace/Ash/Shade should just make it easier, but everyone should be able to do stealth.

 

2) Sadly, when you try to distract them like that, they usually finish to look for you really precisely instead of carefully going to the suspect sound.. :/

 

2) They should make them destroyable. (not just the ones that create a vacuum & lockdown in the corpus set)

Edited May 3, 2014 by unknow99

[_Chaser]

No amont of AI, stealth mechanics or tile changes would make stealth actually rewarding or challenging, if you can just mass murder any number of enemies than hit the console and continue. Also with any mechanics, for most people it would still fall back into crouch walking and one shoting everythng with a bow.

We would once again have to invent our own rules to make it a challenge, just like now.

totally second that.

 

boosting enemy damage will not only make stealth viable option, but make actual teamwork valuable and NECESSARY in order to survive and complete the mission.

[XRAY0128]

They do? *shrug I'll take your word for it... I know they have a vision cone, but the distance they can spot you seems random sometimes.

 

-slightly off-topic, but don't be blaming loki or ash players. They're specialised for stealth for a reason. Likewise with shade sentinels. That said, stealth should be possible for all loadouts, just easier with loki/ash/shade, which it isn't right now.

 

 

Not really blaming them, but complaining stealth is too easy when using a loki is like complaining that Lancers don't kill you fast enough when using Rhino's Iron Skin. If it was balanced around those things, it would become a massive pain for people who aren't them.

 

100% agree with your list off issue there

[AndiNaga]

with the problem with the scaner not showing things already scaned it makes my plant hunt for anti toxins stupid hard now

[Jithvan]

+1 To This

[AuroraSonicBoom]

I was talking about stealth with my friend yesteday and we tried to come up with a way to nerf Loki and Ash's invisibility abliity without touching them or nerfing Shade's Ghost as well. What we settled on was to have certain uncommon units(Sniper, Techs, Seekers, etc.) be able to detect stealthed players. It would largely require improvements in enemy AI and some graphics enhancements. What it boils down to on the player interaction side is being able to see enemy viewcones(sentinel mod), giving us a chance to avoid them. Techs and Seeker like units could have short and medium range stealth detection abilities including AI behaviour to support that, while snipers can only detect stealth through their scopes in a short radius, but at long/infinite range in a spotlight fashion.

 

What we couldn't reach consenus on is whether or not these units should exhibit these behaviours as soon as the mission starts, or if they should only be able to detect stealthed units during idle animations(standing, looking around for non-Snipers, hiding behind cover looking through the scope for Snipers) and scan more frequently if they are alerted to your presence.

 

Anyway, that the best way we could think of to make Loki/Ash less powerful without nerfing Shade's Ghost alongside it and at the same time enhance stealth gameplay.

[unknow99]

I was talking about stealth with my friend yesteday and we tried to come up with a way to nerf Loki and Ash's invisibility abliity without touching them or nerfing Shade's Ghost as well. What we settled on was to have certain uncommon units(Sniper, Techs, Seekers, etc.) be able to detect stealthed players. It would largely require improvements in enemy AI and some graphics enhancements. What it boils down to on the player interaction side is being able to see enemy viewcones(sentinel mod), giving us a chance to avoid them. Techs and Seeker like units could have short and medium range stealth detection abilities including AI behaviour to support that, while snipers can only detect stealth through their scopes in a short radius, but at long/infinite range in a spotlight fashion.

 

What we couldn't reach consenus on is whether or not these units should exhibit these behaviours as soon as the mission starts, or if they should only be able to detect stealthed units during idle animations(standing, looking around for non-Snipers, hiding behind cover looking through the scope for Snipers) and scan more frequently if they are alerted to your presence.

 

Anyway, that the best way we could think of to make Loki/Ash less powerful without nerfing Shade's Ghost alongside it and at the same time enhance stealth gameplay.

Agree, except for one point : vision cones and other things like seeing their path(like in the new Hitman) should be rare mods,because it kills the stealth challenge a little...

 

You're right, a running Loki just behind a unit'sback should get their attention, having some lightning mechanic like in Thief (for instance,be able to silently shut down/shoot lights and be less noticeable),& even throwing little objects to distract them would be welcomed.

[unknow99]

A great video from o7snk :

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYY7e-AEQkc

 

(it also shows the most annoying flaws)

Edited July 9, 2014 by unknow99

[_Chaser]

guess who is o7snk, lol

 

also, need to update this one i guess

[Probta16]

When was the last time that stealth was mentioned in a livestream or somewhere else by the devs? U14 is priority for now but still I would like a feedback from the devs...

 

After seeing n7snk video I realised that when a grineer bump with another, he seeks a way out but most of the he time fail and make our stealth run longer. It could be solved if the AI was programmed to seek a way to avoid the other unit when they reach something like 2 meter(in-game).

 

My knowledge of programming think it is doable...

Edited July 9, 2014 by Probta16

[unknow99]

I agree, they haven't said a word about stealth for ages, and enemies are still getting stuck! I'm getting a little upset about this.

 

I hope that they'll soon go to Stealth 2.0 after the Archwings...

[unknow99]

They just said some words about it during the devstream #41. (not much,but oh well...)

 

Spy is getting a 2.0 soon.Let's hope for more steps in the direction of Stealth.

[Kokurokoki]

Has DE never played a Metal Gear Solid game?  Or games like Hitman?  Those are great references that they should take into consideration when designing the stealth aspect.

 

One of the main problems that the game suffers from in terms of the stealth aspect is linearity in map design.  There is one way to go and often one way only.  For stealth to work, there must be multiple paths across a single tileset.  In most of the maps I've played this is not present at all.  Where we can see some potential is in the Warden rooms on the Rescue gamemode.  There are vents and alternate paths to sneak around to avoid or kill Wardens more efficiently.  While it is far from perfect, it shows that DE has potential to make it work but haven't been able to or don't know how to expand beyond that point due to lack of experience in that genre.  Just for the record though, there is nothing wrong with inexperience in a certain genre and it is perfectly OK (it is not a mark against DE, who have in fact managed to create a very great game).  Even Kojima's team had extreme difficulty with making a hack-and-slash gameplay for Metal Gear Revengeance to the point where they had to cancel the game until a more experienced developer (Platinum Games) took over.

 

Secondly, there must be lots of space to maneuver.  In the Metal Gear Solid series which focuses almost explicitly on stealth, the player is always given a wide area to move around in.  Why is this?  Because he or she needs to in order to avoid patrolling enemies.  In addition to that, the map is often littered with debris and hiding locations to help players avoid enemies.  This is very lacking in Warframe, where often you are forced to run through long empty corridors that are patrolled by enemies or wide empty rooms with nothing to hide in.  This is fine from a run-and-gun style of gameplay, but is very poor design for a game that supposedly allows for stealth gameplay.  There needs to be more debris or objects clutered around the map so that a player can more effectively hide from enemies  This is also the perfect opportunity to add in parkour elements to the stealth aspect.  For example, in those straight corridors, why not place high walls and objects for the player to jump across to avoid enemies below?  This gives the player not only the choice to decide between guns blazing and sneaky ninja playstyles, but also incorporates far more skill than just hiding and running. 

 

Thirdly, is information.  The player needs to know more about the enemy so that they can effectively plan how to move about a map.  Here audio cues and additional HUD elements are extremely vital.  From what we currently have we know that DE has the potential to do this.  For one, we already have the map and radar mods, which are extremely vital to the stealth aspect.  Secondly, we also have the Lotus to let us know that we haven't been detected yet.  But what else could be added one might ask?

 

An alert status indicator.  Similarly to Metal Gear Solid, the player needs to know what state of caution the enemies are in.  This could be easily incorporated to the game with a simple 3-state indicator:  Stealth, Caution, and Alert.  Lore-wise you can say that the Tenno have specialized sensors to detect the life energy of nearby foes.  Alternatively, you can give that function to the codex scanner which would give it far more utility beyond x-ray binoculars and codex scans.  Again, we already know that DE is capable of this.  Enemies in a room that have been alerted will fire on the Tenno and attempt to activate a ship-wide alert.  With a new system we could treat this as the Caution state, forcing players to quickly eliminate foes in the room before they can pop the switch.  Additionally, foes in the next room would come to investigate, forcing players to eliminate them quickly and act as a sort of penalty for being spotted.

 

I have a lot more ideas but, I'll leave them at that for now.  Gotta eat.

[unknow99]

Kokurokoki, your idea with the scanner is really good! The codex is also a tool made for slower moments (nobody uses it during a true run&gun phase. And yes, finding infested hives is not exactly pure run&gun.)

 

1) Why not adding other little features in addition to this one to it then? I just thought of something amazing : if you aim at a backgound element and press the  "use" key, you'd be able to hack the terminal you're aiming at or even the light switcher there from a distance. "So what?" When you have unalerted enemies to avoid, just do this and bam! They'd notice an unusual activity in the ship and actually go to the terminal for that ghost elevator or the switched off lights.We could even hack those lasers in the Shipyard to directly hit the AI too!

That'd be an excellent distracting tool & the codex gets more use. Everyone is happy!

 

2) Recently, a smart redditor named came up with a great idea :

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/2lszht/simple_idea_for_stealth_mission_reward_no/

 

This one could really be a mass appeal for stealth too!

 

Thoughts?

[Kokurokoki]

Kokurokoki, your idea with the scanner is really good! The codex is also a tool made for slower moments (nobody uses it during a true run&gun phase. And yes, finding infested hives is not exactly pure run&gun.)

 

1) Why not adding other little features in addition to this one to it then? I just thought of something amazing : if you aim at a backgound element and press the  "use" key, you'd be able to hack the terminal you're aiming at or even the light switcher there from a distance. "So what?" When you have unalerted enemies to avoid, just do this and bam! They'd notice an unusual activity in the ship and actually go to the terminal for that ghost elevator or the switched off lights.We could even hack those lasers in the Shipyard to directly hit the AI too!

That'd be an excellent distracting tool & the codex gets more use. Everyone is happy!

 

2) Recently, a smart redditor named came up with a great idea :

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/2lszht/simple_idea_for_stealth_mission_reward_no/

 

This one could really be a mass appeal for stealth too!

 

Thoughts?

 

+1 to this.  Since you brought up a vital aspect of stealth that I totally forgot about.

 

Distraction.

 

Your idea for for distractions are very good.  It would be hilarious for Tenno to trigger an alarm in a certain room on the other side of the ship, then watch in glee as tons of Corpus or Grineer bum rush to that location while ignoring the Rhino hiding behind barrels in the corner.

 

I also like the idea for stealth mission rewards.

Edited November 16, 2014 by Kokurokoki