Prestige in Warframe

[Volt_Cruelerz]

DESteve said the other day that the idea of "prestiging" from CoD was likely coming to WF. What follows is a suggestion as to how to implement this. I am not aware of how far along the devs are with this system, so this is just what I believe would overall lead to the best resuls and am hoping that perhaps this could positively impact the way they implement the system if they chose to do so.

Purpose: the system would allow players to permanently increase the power of their warframes and weapons as desired (among other things) and would prevent the game from becoming terminal (where you can literally grind to the end and be done).

Implementation: In the customization menu for items, there will be a new button, titled "Imbue." Clicking this will bring up a menu with the following options:

-Imbue from Token: if you have any "Imbue Tokens" (what I'm calling prestige tokens), this will charge the appropriate amount of tokens from the player and "imbue" (effects listed later) the object

-Imbue and Reset: imbue the item and reset it to it's original stats (if the cost of imbuing is >1, the player must have the extra tokens to compensate the difference; must be at rank 30; does not remove the Orokin Catalyst/Reactor if it is installed on the item

-Reset for Token: reset the item but do not imbue it and instead collect an Imbue Token; must be rank 30; does not remove the Orokin Catalyst/Reactor if it is installed on the item

-Cancel: simply closes the menu

Imbue Effects: I feel this is best handled depending on what type of item it is. Frames would require two points to imbue while weapons would require only one. In all cases, these are permanent, persistent changes to the item that persist across resets and repeated imbuings. Repeatedly imbuing the same thing results in additive, not multiplicative stacking of stats. Whenever an item is imbued, in addition to the effects listed below, it also permanently gains 5% of the effect of all mods currently equipped and those mods are also destroyed in the process. An item may be imbued up to 10 times (or other arbitrary limit). Note that any numbers given in this section are purely guesstimations as to what would be ideal. They are simply to demonstrate the idea.

-Warframes: +5 health, +8 shields, +5 stamina, +2% shield regen rate, +4% power effectiveness, +2% power range, +5 max energy

-Full-Autos: +4% damage, +3 fire rate, +0.5 reload, +0.05 puncture, +3% piercing damage, +0.04 Multishot

-Burst Rifles: +5% damage, +2 fire rate, +0.6 reload, +0.06 puncture, +2% piercing damage, +0.05 Multishot

-Semi-Autos: +4% damage, +0.3 fire rate, +0.2 reload, +0.5 puncture, +4% piercing damage, +3% crit chance

-Snipers: +6% damage, +0.1 fire rate, +0.1 reload, +1 puncture, +7.3% piercing damage, +6% crit chance

-Shotties: +0.6 fire rate, +0.3 reload, +0.05 puncture, +2% piercing damage, +0.14 Multishot, +1% crit chance

-Melee: +6% damage, +6% charge rate, +7% charge damage, +2% range

-Pistols: extrapolate from above as needed

Other Imbue Token Uses: I believe the tokens could also potentially be used to unlock inventory slots (3 for a warframe slot, 2 for a weapon slot) and possibly used for other things, though I'm not sure what yet.

I feel like this system could make the game more fun for more devoted players by giving them something to work for on a longer timescale and would work well in combination with more high-level content to keep players around for longer periods and thus increase the likelihood of them purchasing platinum and as Aire has suggested below, you could also purchase tokens themselves with platinum.

Edited January 15, 2013 by Volt_Cruelerz

[Kratier]

no they are just screwing with the forum display process, just click custom and show all instead of just hot topics.

[Aire]

Cool system, interesting idea, but I'd believe it to be better if instead of imbuing for a bunch of upgrades, why not imbue for one, more noticable upgrade, adding to diversity to each player, rather than end-game all of "this weapon" have the same stats.

For example,

I imbue my Latron with 4 Crit Chances, 2 Fire rates, 2 Damages, and 2 Crit Damages, adding up to a total of 10 imbues, therein will make the player choose the route they want.

Also, maybe I havent read thoroughly enough, it'd be nice if the tokens were universal, as in you start with all level 1 Gear, then it all hits 30, you get tokens from them, which would be like 5 universal tokens, and you can use them on just one item, and of course, you could platinum purchase tokens.

What I'm getting from the OP is:

Item hits 30, you get a token for resetting it, token is used to make something stronger.

[Enfo]

I would definately like to see something like this happening.

[Volt_Cruelerz]

Cool system, interesting idea, but I'd believe it to be better if instead of imbuing for a bunch of upgrades, why not imbue for one, more noticable upgrade, adding to diversity to each player, rather than end-game all of "this weapon" have the same stats.

For example,

I imbue my Latron with 4 Crit Chances, 2 Fire rates, 2 Damages, and 2 Crit Damages, adding up to a total of 10 imbues, therein will make the player choose the route they want.

Also, maybe I havent read thoroughly enough, it'd be nice if the tokens were universal, as in you start with all level 1 Gear, then it all hits 30, you get tokens from them, which would be like 5 universal tokens, and you can use them on just one item, and of course, you could platinum purchase tokens.

What I'm getting from the OP is:

Item hits 30, you get a token for resetting it, token is used to make something stronger.

In my suggestion, tokens were intended to be universal. When you reset an item, you get a token which can be used on any other item you have if if you press "Reset for Token." You're not restricted to only imbuing the same weapon. This is part of why I had frames cost two tokens.

As for your suggestion of selecting one large upgrade, I feel that the difference is that you can't actually fine-tune large changes whereas in my original suggestion, you get some small tweaks here and there from it as a baseline, but the true customization comes in from it permanently absorbing your mods into the item. Since you're permanently devoting those mods to that item and will have to get new ones for the next imbue, it should result in a good amount of customization as players will have to pick and choose each time and will result in a product that I think would be extremely specific to the player over repeated imbues.

Edited January 15, 2013 by Volt_Cruelerz

[Zeneroth]

I like this idea simply because it will lessen the different between players with Platinum and players without. This way players who don't want to spend plat on frames/weapons slot can just play whatever they got and get some progress. In other word more specialized in what they got rather than more variety.

[TenderSugar]

Why not making an another tree system?

And of course, not making it possible to have every upgrades.

Each trees specializing in one kind of upgrade, for example with, let's say, the braton;

Accuracy

Firerate

Damage

And, make sense, these trees will need to be balanced, not to add only tiny amounts of upgrade (like 0.5%, who the hell would care about 3 upgrade that just give 1.5% in total), but not HUGE too.

[Aire]

I like the idea of absorbing the mods. But what happens if you reset? Are the mods gone?

Also, maxing out 1 item is ALOT of mods. If it was 10 imbues, 70 mods to make the most out of it

I still stay true to my "choose an upgrade" rather, i'd prefer a baseline upgrade and then a chosen upgrade, getting rid of the mod absorbing entirely. (sorry) ;)

[Sikab]

"Purpose: the system would allow players to permanently increase the power of their warframes and weapons as desired (among other things) and would prevent the game from becoming terminal (where you can literally grind to the end and be done)."

Stopped readign here. Hello no. Always hated Prestiging, never did, and never will.

Giving permanent increase in power for Prestiging makes it a MUST which is bad.

Prestiging is fine untill it's the same from CoD, you only get a freakin badge/title to show-off.

[Volt_Cruelerz]

I like the idea of absorbing the mods. But what happens if you reset? Are the mods gone?

Also, maxing out 1 item is ALOT of mods. If it was 10 imbues, 70 mods to make the most out of it

I still stay true to my "choose an upgrade" rather, i'd prefer a baseline upgrade and then a chosen upgrade, getting rid of the mod absorbing entirely. (sorry) ;)

That is certainly true, but I don't expect people would necessarily do so with utter focus on one item. Frames require two, not to mention if you cycle through them, you'll still upgrade at the same rate but will have more time to accumulate mods that you're satisfied with. Eh, to each his own. :)

"Purpose: the system would allow players to permanently increase the power of their warframes and weapons as desired (among other things) and would prevent the game from becoming terminal (where you can literally grind to the end and be done)."

Stopped readign here. Hello no. Always hated Prestiging, never did, and never will.

Giving permanent increase in power for Prestiging makes it a MUST which is bad.

Prestiging is fine untill it's the same from CoD, you only get a freakin badge/title to show-off.

The changes in stats I suggested (which you didn't read) were quite small and in a game that's PvE, does it actually matter if your teammates do this and you don't? I mean, in PvP, it could certainly be problematic, but this game doesn't have that and I doubt it would get anything beyond a borderlands style duel any time soon. As such, I don't see why it would be obligatory but instead would be something for more devoted players to do.

Why not making an another tree system?

And of course, not making it possible to have every upgrades.

Each trees specializing in one kind of upgrade, for example with, let's say, the braton;

Accuracy

Firerate

Damage

And, make sense, these trees will need to be balanced, not to add only tiny amounts of upgrade (like 0.5%, who the hell would care about 3 upgrade that just give 1.5% in total), but not HUGE too.

Could you expound upon this?

Edited January 15, 2013 by Volt_Cruelerz

[MJ12]

"Purpose: the system would allow players to permanently increase the power of their warframes and weapons as desired (among other things) and would prevent the game from becoming terminal (where you can literally grind to the end and be done)."

Stopped readign here. Hello no. Always hated Prestiging, never did, and never will.

Giving permanent increase in power for Prestiging makes it a MUST which is bad.

Prestiging is fine untill it's the same from CoD, you only get a freakin badge/title to show-off.

Counterpoint: Badass Points from Borderlands where the permanent infinite power unlocks were like +1% to a stat per level. Would, say, some guy with more prestige levels having an additional 10% shields/health and like 5% gun damage be that unbalancing in a PvE game?

[Tetsmeha]

Sounds a lot like the Borderlands 2 Badass rank system. Which was actually really nice. If this is per rank, it should probably be a little higher because over 400 missions barely gets you to rank 3.

[Volt_Cruelerz]

Counterpoint: Badass Points from Borderlands where the permanent infinite power unlocks were like +1% to a stat per level. Would, say, some guy with more prestige levels having an additional 10% shields/health and like 5% gun damage be that unbalancing in a PvE game?

Come to think of it, this is a bit like a mush between BA points from BL2 and Prestige from CoD. Though something to keep in mind was that there was a falloff in BL2. They were only 1% buffs for the first time in a category. After that, they decreased. I don't own the game so I don't know if it's asymptotic or not.

Sounds a lot like the Borderlands 2 Badass rank system. Which was actually really nice. If this is per rank, it should probably be a little higher because over 400 missions barely gets you to rank 3.

This is based on the rank of the weapon, not your account. Edited January 15, 2013 by Volt_Cruelerz

[AutoexecDayly]

Come to think of it, this is a bit like a mush between BA points from BL2 and Prestige from CoD. Though something to keep in mind was that there was a falloff in BL2. They were only 1% buffs for the first time in a category. After that, they decreased. I don't own the game so I don't know if it's asymptotic or not.

this is true... you only get the 1% when you buy your first level in each category... from then on it's 0.7%, 0.4%, 0.3% and so on and on and on and on until you start hitting the 0.1s and 0.0s... eventually you get a 0.1%... (if you spend about 300 or more tokens)

[johncage]

or maybe just make the game itself interesting so we don't need aritificial ways to keep people coming back.

[Volt_Cruelerz]

or maybe just make the game itself interesting so we don't need aritificial ways to keep people coming back.

Why is this artificial? It's practically the definition of replayability.

[Kaiku]

or maybe just make the game itself interesting so we don't need aritificial ways to keep people coming back.

I think I'm with you.

I have myself also suggested the never ending power growth, but what would be more interesting that if you did not gain any more power, but unlocked more challenging missions.

This way your own "level" would be the difficulty level of the hardest mission you have completed.

Why is this artificial? It's practically the definition of replayability.

How much replayability it gives, when you play the same game again, but just having higher stats yourself?

[Volt_Cruelerz]

How much replayability it gives, when you play the same game again, but just having higher stats yourself?

Ratchet and Clank 3's "Challenge Mode" was similar in many ways to this and I spent more hours on that game than any other console game I've ever had. Most were in challenge mode.

[Aggh]

I'd rather see a prestige system that allows us to change the skills of the war frames. Say after you hit level 30 on a frame you have the option to go back to level 1 and starting with prestige 1 different skills start dropping from mobs that you can slot in over the default skills. This would give a lot more replayablity and customization than simple stat buffs.

The imbue system feels like it should be something left for weapons alone.

Perhaps melee weapons could gain some attack customization when prestiged where you could upgrade/slot in different attack animations.

Edited January 26, 2013 by Aggh

[Kaiku]

I'd rather see a prestige system that allows us to change the skills of the war frames. Say after you hit level 30 on a frame you have the option to go back to level 1 and starting with prestige 1 different skills start dropping from mobs that you can slot in over the default skills. This would give a lot more replayablity and customization than simple stat buffs.

The imbue system feels like it should be something left for weapons alone.

Perhaps melee weapons could gain some attack customization when prestiged where you could upgrade/slot in different attack animations.

Or you can start playing with different warframe...

[Aggh]

Or you can start playing with different warframe...

And once you have every frame up to level 30? Giving items that people buy/earn more replayability is never a bad thing.

or maybe just make the game itself interesting so we don't need aritificial ways to keep people coming back.

Lol. All games need people to keep on coming back. Also, saying a gameplay mechanic related to leveling in a dungeon crawler is artificial is a crappy argument.

"Purpose: the system would allow players to permanently increase the power of their warframes and weapons as desired (among other things) and would prevent the game from becoming terminal (where you can literally grind to the end and be done)."

Stopped readign here. Hello no. Always hated Prestiging, never did, and never will.

Giving permanent increase in power for Prestiging makes it a MUST which is bad.

Prestiging is fine untill it's the same from CoD, you only get a freakin badge/title to show-off.

We have the same thing with OP mods as it is. Once higher level systems are added they'll be a must too. Are you seriously arguing against giving more depth to the endgame? It sounds like you're just knee jerking against the term "prestige." I suppose this shouldn't come as a surprise as you have negative knee jerk reactions in almost every suggestion thread that isn't your own.

Edited January 26, 2013 by Aggh

[BL4CKL1STED]

I personally think that it 'absorbing' mods that are slotted is absolutly $&*&*#(%&. There will be a huge power gap between players if that happens, and one that won't be easy to close, as some players will grind for and slot the most powerful, broken mods into every slot before they prestige, and other players will just prestige without giving a thought to their slotted mods.

The players who have non-optimal mods 10 times will be significantly less powerful than players who have used the most powerful mods each time, creating a pretty big power gap.

There should just be the flat bonus, mods should be unslotted and returned, and the item should gain a flat bonus per prestige level.

Edit: I should mention- from a design perspective, mods/slottable and reslottable upgrades exist in a game to allow room to upgrade. 'Absorbing' those mods for permanant upgrades destroys their purpose as a way for players to continue to get powerful after hitting a level cap, and makes them instead a resource that limits the power of players who would benifit most from reslotting them.

Imagine if you couldn't unslot mods, and you had your fave weapon slotted with a ton of rank 1-10 mods in all the slots.

That would be the same stupid design choice that prestige absorbing mods would be.

Yeah, it'd be 'cool' each rank as you prestiged up, but for anyone who hit the prestige cap, it would suck if their choices weren't that good.

tl;dr - Don't let weapons 'absorb and destroy' mods, that is a terribad design decision from a balance standpoint.

Edited January 28, 2013 by BL4CKL1STED

[Volt_Cruelerz]

at 10% of its normal effect, it's not exactly going to be doing all that much and it's not like there's any obligation to instantly prestige. You would do so whenever you feel like it, so the only gap between players would be the one that they choose to put in place by prestiging before getting the mods they want.