Do You Trust The Lotus?

[_Je_Suis_Bruxelles_]

it's a very tricky question , because in my mind, Lotus is DE.

 

Cannot separate [DE]Rebecca ,the DE employee/representative from the Lotus character.

 

So I guess  that I need more lore before considering trusting Lotus.

[GunDownGrace]

it's a very tricky question , because in my mind, Lotus is DE.

 

Cannot separate [DE]Rebecca ,the DE employee/representative from the Lotus character.

 

So I guess  that I need more lore before considering trusting Lotus.

exactly..short post but you are wise beyond your post count

 

the lotus,by an odd conincidence of irl hiring mechanics to ingame character effect,is unfortunately a real person

 

and real people can and often do falter

 

so yes...i am also of the belief that ill need more lore before i trust either [DE]Rebecca,or her ingame avatar known as "The Lotus"

 

on an interesting side note,if this thread winds up locked by rebecca,or one known to associate with her...it will only confirm what im thinking right now,which is that the time is right for there to be a choice of ingame guide/irl person that is an alternative to the lotus/rebecca

Edited January 31, 2015 by GunDownGrace

[Mad-Macs]

/facepalm

[iuki.]

DE has said the Lotus is good. There is no "oh maybe she's evil or will turn on the Tenno" they have explicitly stated that helping the Tenno is her number 1 priority.

These threads and speculation mean nothing when the creators of the game have said she is a good guy.

 

They have said these things in live streams and what not, however where is this information jotted down official like. I go to WF main page, click 'story', and it's no more than 2 or so small paragraphs.

 

As to OP, have to trust Lotus b/c there is no one else presented to us as our 'friend' in this game. WF has great game play in spades but when it comes to things related to stories, plot, and interesting characters; these are near non-existant in game. :(

[GunDownGrace]

They have said these things in live streams and what not, however where is this information jotted down official like. I go to WF main page, click 'story', and it's no more than 2 or so small paragraphs.

 

As to OP, have to trust Lotus b/c there is no one else presented to us as our 'friend' in this game. WF has great game play in spades but when it comes to things related to stories, plot, and interesting characters; these are near non-existant in game. :(

now this post i like,this is an example of practicality in action

 

we need an alternative to the lotus

[Sloan441]

I've seen no reason not to.

[Toppien]

i  trust only in suda-sama   ~\(*o*)\

[GunDownGrace]

i  trust only in suda-sama   ~\(*o*)\

fair enough,cephalon suda isnt the lotus

[MisterUltimate]

Here is a list of what you can trust in the Warframe universe.

[1] The Frame you occupy.
[2] The weapons on your back.
[3] The restores in your gear slots.

[4] That every problem from Mercury to Tower IV can be solved with massive amounts of violence.

In word, the Lotus is our guide. In action, she is a broker for mercenary contracts. If you look at her from that angle, trust isn't a factor. Fulfill the contracts that benefit you, and be ready to shoot Lotus to death in the face if she ever double crosses you. Don't hesitate. Gank her before she can even flinch. 

I see the Syndicates as a way to defining the kind of Tenno you want to be, if you're into that sort of thing. You can choose a Syndicate based on what ideas motivate you, rather than the shiny loot to be had. It's easier to work with someone with similar goals.

The Lotus has a stated goal of making sure that the conflict between the Grineer and Corpus never ends. She refers to this as "balance". Freeing enslaved people, empowering the oppressed, or making the system better in general are not goals the Lotus is at all interested in. Balance and the occasional vengeance are all that motivate her. But, she pays on time, although whether she pays well is debatable.

She also apparently likes Kubows. They taste like space chicken.

[Blakrana]

im actually extremely machivellian,beleiving that the world is not a just place,everyone is corrupt to some degree without exception,and thus for a "just and right" result to come about,people must be manipulated into doing so

 

There are only so many ways that statement can go, and all of them involve you lying at one point or another.

 

Assuming your claim you are indeed a fairly Machiavellian individual is true, then your 'Moral Outrage' would by extension by little more than a charade: 'Morality is weakness', and the ability to know when to tell the truth and when to lie is integral to the efforts of the Machiavellian manipulator. It's just another tool in the hands of the pragmatic Prince. All things have their time and place, you merely need to avoid being caught out as you pull the strings of those you control.

 

Which is not helped by stating you're 'Machiavellian'. Because people know the stance well enough it's an actual word, admitting you ascribe to it is akin to shouting to the world you necessarily cannot be trusted. It literally means "the employment of cunning and duplicity in statecraft or general conduct"1, far as Wikipedia is concerned (A discussion about the variation of definitions of words in different texts is beyond the scope of this riposte). It is one thing for your opponents or detractors to accuse you of being Machiavellian, whereby the charismatic Prince can wave it off as mere nay saying, whilst declaring it yourself hands the ammunition to the opposition. 

 

Borrowing Niccolo's own fondness for the 'Prince as Fox' metaphor, it's akin to running into the fox trap yourself willingly. Possible as part of a greater scheme, but to what end such a scheme is greater than one whereby you hide your penchant for manipulation is...dubious.

 

Alternatively, your claim to being an adherent to the principles of Machiavelli is itself a lie, in which case that would allow you to keep your moral disdain for the act of lying (even if the absolutist account is somewhat impractical, it is still an entirely fair stance to take), but in that case you're a hypocrite, as you have partaken in that which you find to be so morally repugnant.

 

Are you sure that's the direction you desire your argument to go? Because if so, you've lied and compromised your own standards.

One way or another, your own words have undermined you.

 

Although, I will say this: The world is an unpleasant place, but there is a lot of good. People fight and struggle to do the right thing for no other reason than it is the right thing. We may lie to children, telling them Santa will bring them presents, but that is not malicious. People may pray to seek solace when they hurt, and that is not intrinsically bad, no matter what you may believe in terms of religion. We spend much of our lives telling ourselves things that are, in a sense lies, but they're the lies that help us remain sane.

 

That things will get better, and people can be more than what they seem. I may not understand faith, but I'm familiar with the nuance involved in trying to convince yourself you're better than you think you are. Every day, people struggle against what might be impossible odds, and humanity is pretty damned capable of being an utter arse to itself and everything...but it is those self same human beings that seek to cure all manner of crippling diseases, to try and make the planet survive for our descendants, to explore and seek the stars.

 

It may not be palpable to consider that lying to someone whilst they die can be good, but at the end of the day, it isn't necessarily for the person who's dying, but the one doing so. Is it so wrong to try and console oneself when the pain is too much to bear?

 

Morality is a lot more complicated than 'Lies=bad, Truth=Good'. Same as people.

 

*obligatory apology for rambling*

[(PSN)theelix]

I trust no women who hides her body.

 

She is a A.I facebook profile.

Who said Lotus hides her body? 

You should remember that the voice actor for Lotus is into WF fanfics, if I remember correctly. You never know what type of fanfics she reads e_o

Oh God... My Brain... What has been thought cannot be un-thought of. Arrrghhh.. .

[a-Arcadia]

Yes blindly

[Ishki88]

Who said Lotus hides her body? 

You should remember that the voice actor for Lotus is into WF fanfics, if I remember correctly. You never know what type of fanfics she reads e_o

Oh God... My Brain... What has been thought cannot be un-thought of. Arrrghhh.. .

Well...for one...she has no body.....it's been proven canon

 

:^)

[(PSN)theelix]

Well...for one...she has no body.....it's been proven canon

 

:^)

Well, first... Where was this proven? A link would be nice. 

Second... How can she hide her body has she the absence of one? 

Something's fishy here... I feel like I'm gonna need this. 

 

Edit: Also totally confused because of the whole Mirage lore thing, where it seems like Lotus was there... 

Edited January 31, 2015 by (PS4)theelix

[GunDownGrace]

 

There are only so many ways that statement can go, and all of them involve you lying at one point or another.

 

Assuming your claim you are indeed a fairly Machiavellian individual is true, then your 'Moral Outrage' would by extension by little more than a charade: 'Morality is weakness', and the ability to know when to tell the truth and when to lie is integral to the efforts of the Machiavellian manipulator. It's just another tool in the hands of the pragmatic Prince. All things have their time and place, you merely need to avoid being caught out as you pull the strings of those you control.

 

Which is not helped by stating you're 'Machiavellian'. Because people know the stance well enough it's an actual word, admitting you ascribe to it is akin to shouting to the world you necessarily cannot be trusted. It literally means "the employment of cunning and duplicity in statecraft or general conduct"1, far as Wikipedia is concerned (A discussion about the variation of definitions of words in different texts is beyond the scope of this riposte). It is one thing for your opponents or detractors to accuse you of being Machiavellian, whereby the charismatic Prince can wave it off as mere nay saying, whilst declaring it yourself hands the ammunition to the opposition. 

 

Borrowing Niccolo's own fondness for the 'Prince as Fox' metaphor, it's akin to running into the fox trap yourself willingly. Possible as part of a greater scheme, but to what end such a scheme is greater than one whereby you hide your penchant for manipulation is...dubious.

 

Alternatively, your claim to being an adherent to the principles of Machiavelli is itself a lie, in which case that would allow you to keep your moral disdain for the act of lying (even if the absolutist account is somewhat impractical, it is still an entirely fair stance to take), but in that case you're a hypocrite, as you have partaken in that which you find to be so morally repugnant.

 

Are you sure that's the direction you desire your argument to go? Because if so, you've lied and compromised your own standards.

One way or another, your own words have undermined you.

 

Although, I will say this: The world is an unpleasant place, but there is a lot of good. People fight and struggle to do the right thing for no other reason than it is the right thing. We may lie to children, telling them Santa will bring them presents, but that is not malicious. People may pray to seek solace when they hurt, and that is not intrinsically bad, no matter what you may believe in terms of religion. We spend much of our lives telling ourselves things that are, in a sense lies, but they're the lies that help us remain sane.

 

That things will get better, and people can be more than what they seem. I may not understand faith, but I'm familiar with the nuance involved in trying to convince yourself you're better than you think you are. Every day, people struggle against what might be impossible odds, and humanity is pretty damned capable of being an utter arse to itself and everything...but it is those self same human beings that seek to cure all manner of crippling diseases, to try and make the planet survive for our descendants, to explore and seek the stars.

 

It may not be palpable to consider that lying to someone whilst they die can be good, but at the end of the day, it isn't necessarily for the person who's dying, but the one doing so. Is it so wrong to try and console oneself when the pain is too much to bear?

 

Morality is a lot more complicated than 'Lies=bad, Truth=Good'. Same as people.

 

*obligatory apology for rambling*

very interesting take on this

 

but i notice you entirely ignored the part of my post where i explained that "faltering myself does not prevent me from pointing out those very same flaws of my own in others," for the simple fact that i admit i have those flaws,and those who support the lotus do not acknowledge that the lotus has flaws

 

and ignoring part of something to take another part entirely out of context within an absolutism,that is indeed going to extraordinary lengths

 

allow me to enlighten you and the others as to the parts of my post you tried and failed to censor,merely to try and pick at a single two word line ,wait,interesting,you misquoted me deliberately,i said "extremely machivellian",you said fairly,but then you tryed to use an absolutism which by definition requires no errors,even in the vagaries of context,nice try(which by the way,one of the listed definitions of "fairly" is something that isnt entirely one way but is close to it)

 

ill even be super super sweety nice and high in BOLD the parts of my post that you misquoted that infact entirely disable your retaliatory post

 

 

my oh my star in heaven drop...

 

i did not think in all my years i would see someone quoting such snarled chicanery

 

for one thing...now your so far backed into a corner your starting to try and lie to save your ineffective attempt at defending the lotus

 

you claimed the lotus said something on the order of "ill see you again" when not only did she not say that,ever,in the whole history of wf...but the line we were picking apart didnt even mention that..your mind is so desperate to save that treacherous witch known as the lotus that your willing to make extraordinary leaps of context that not even this darling english language will allow

 

as for the whole twisted lie that the disgusting,torpid miasma known as traditional wisdom would poison us with,specifically LIEING to comfort the near dead...That is a severe insult,that is a blind misjudgement of a simple mind trying to emulate a higher emotion

 

it assumes that a dying person is of such low intelligence that a lie,which is wrong no matter the context,would somehow comfort them when its very obvious to the dying person that they will die

 

id think in such a situation truth is more of a comfort,because then the dieing person knows there fate is sealed,and can resolve themselves to the moment

 

classic examples:

 

new star trek movie,second one,where spock says this in explaining his lack of emotion about dieing:

 

"knowing that my own death was imminent,i chose to feel nothing" (essentially implying that he let go of all emotion,so that no matter the circumstance of his impending doom,the truth of the event would allow him a measure of peace)

 

dead space 3,when isaac clarke and the other guy learn of the necromorph moon`s impending ressurection,isaac clarke is looking embattled,and then the other guy grabs his shoulder and says "no b(think expletive)s,we die now?"...with the implication being they knew they were going to die,so they might as well give the necromorphs hell before they do,and ironically enough this comforted isaac

 

as for the rather lackluster charity example.im not terribly offended personally either way

 

whether you donate alot or a little for a charity for self service of social gratification or not doesnt matter to me,cause rich or poor,loved or hated,in that case youll just be treated as another nameless person in an ocean of charity statistics

 

as for the kant guy quotes from the other guy taking your lotus support apart...being imperfect ourselves doesnt prevent us from taking apart the moral high ground of someone else who is faltering

 

we may be doing the same imperfections or having done so for a very long time...but the point is,msot of us are honest to some degree about our imperfection,like i myself am not perfect,

 

However,the lotus,and her idealogical supporters on the forums seem to reject any notion that the lotus herself is imperfect...which is insultingly dishonest given that if the lotus was actually perfect,it would be such a powerfull thing that there would be no detractors..I.E. breathing air is relatively perfect,so not very many people complain about it(unless said air is filled with particulate)

 

 

well thats about it for that part

 

as for me myself?im actually extremely machivellian,beleiving that the world is not a just place,everyone is corrupt to some degree without exception,and thus for a "just and right" result to come about,people must be manipulated into doing so

 

but i suppose your wondering why ive seemingly grown so rabidly ardent in my idealogical attacks against the lotus?and why i seem relatively uneffected by the various things about the lotus (i say that because i dont want to get crude and uncouth about this line) that everyone else except for us truly awakened tenno seem effected by?

 

ill give you a big,huge hint

 

"The eye of darkness cannot be blinded by the light"

 

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

My take on the Lotus is that she is trustworthy in that she will not purposefully cause harm to us.

I do not trust her to help and respect us; I feel like a tool used by her, Suda, anyone who is put in command of me. 
It's not uncommon. We are practically mercenaries and that is how mercenaries are treated. 

At the very least, Lotus values our aptitude and given us acceptance where we were lost. Should her niceties be an illusion, it is a very pleasant one.

 

I imagine her attitude has changed over the millenia. She gave herself purpose and is using that purpose to use us, for some reason.

Maybe it is for rebirth. Maybe she commanded the revolution of the Orokin, but her command and guidance was faltering and we destroyed them. 

She locked us, and herself in cryogenics to wait out the millenia; releasing herself, wiping our memories, to build anew. Emphasizing honor. Emphasizing reclamation and killing, but never extinction.  Balance. Order. Not heartache and anger.

 

She's damaged, like us all.

[[DE]Momaw]

My take on the Lotus is that she is trustworthy in that she will not purposefully cause harm to us.

I do not trust her to help and respect us; I feel like a tool used by her, Suda, anyone who is put in command of me. 

It's not uncommon. We are practically mercenaries and that is how mercenaries are treated. 

At the very least, Lotus values our aptitude and given us acceptance where we were lost. Should her niceties be an illusion, it is a very pleasant one.

 

I imagine her attitude has changed over the millenia. She gave herself purpose and is using that purpose to use us, for some reason.

Maybe it is for rebirth. Maybe she commanded the revolution of the Orokin, but her command and guidance was faltering and we destroyed them. 

She locked us, and herself in cryogenics to wait out the millenia; releasing herself, wiping our memories, to build anew. Emphasizing honor. Emphasizing reclamation and killing, but never extinction.  Balance. Order. Not heartache and anger.

 

She's damaged, like us all.

 

 

A good slave owner never deliberately damages their slaves, either. They're valuable after all.

 

But again.  Either we have a leader who knows a great deal about us and herself and won't tell us which is the very definition of untrustworthy...  Or, a leader who is as lost and directionless as we are and won't admit it which begs the question why she is in charge and where she gets these impulses to have us murder and destroy from one end of the system to the other.

 

It should probably be mentioned that while I ask pointed questions of Lotus and want real earnest answers from somebody given so much authority over us,  I am not "anti Lotus". My objective is explanation, not revolution.  Since somebody pointed out that [DE]Rebecca is also somewhat tied to this character, also bears mentioning that I have no quarrel with her. This is all in-game, lore-based, etc.

Edited February 1, 2015 by Momaw

[HiSaZuL]

Step by step instructions for dealing with Lotus:

 

1. Find a rocket.

 

2. Find rope.

 

3. Tie Lotus to the rocket.

 

4. Aim at the sun.

 

5. Shoot it.

 

6. Enjoy never again: being told what to do, getting ejected from missions, hearing never ending drivel getting blasted in your gears, getting stupid alerts that requires x to get y to get z, being told mass murder and zealotry is FTW, getting asked for money before you throw a flea infested rat/dog out of air lock, insert any other bad things that happened to you including rng and so forth, nullifiers that instantly 1 shot you through maxed redirect plus vitality plus quick thinking while you are bo prime flying in the air with invis ending for about 1 second or so.

Edited February 1, 2015 by HiSaZuL

[GunDownGrace]

Step by step instructions for dealing with Lotus:

 

1. Find a rocket.

 

2. Find rope.

 

3. Tie Lotus to the rocket.

 

4. Aim at the sun.

 

5. Shoot it.

 

6. Enjoy never again: being told what to do, getting ejected from missions, hearing never ending drivel getting blasted in your gears, getting stupid alerts that requires x to get y to get z, being told mass murder and zealotry is FTW, getting asked for money before you throw a flea infested rat/dog out of air lock, insert any other bad things that happened to you including rng and so forth, nullifiers that instantly 1 shot you through maxed redirect plus vitality plus quick thinking while you are bo prime flying in the air with invis ending for about 1 second or so.

you said it :D albeit in a very interesting flavor

[(PSN)timbob90210]

Something I posted last time a similar question was asked:

 

She's an evil AI controlling the Tenno for her own sick purposes. Everything you see is a lie.

The grineer, corpus, all civilians. Those bullets coming at you, all in your head.

 

Ever wonder how everyone has your Tenno Skype address? It's Lotus sending those messages to you.

 

Tyl Regor

A famous doctor attempting to save lives using stem cells.

 

Alad V

A scientist trying to save the Tenno from Lotus control. Zanuka and "Infested" Mesa are actually Tenno who have been freed of Lotus control and chose to fight for the correct side.

 

Stalker

Your friend trying to wake you but Lotus makes it seem like he's trying to kill you, and makes your warframe self destruct when he almost frees you.

 

Gustrag Three

The Swat team/police force.

 

Vay Hek

Just a potato...Lotus never really liked the idea of potatoes being able to power electronics.

 

I think you get where I'm going. She is not to be trusted. She will do anything to keep you and all other Tenno under her control.

 

New Answer:

 

No I don't trust her. The Orokin did not make Lotus, nor did they know of her existence. She is the Sentient's solution to the orokin's warframes. The Orokin thought they'd won but the Sentients made an AI to control them even after their alleged demise. Later, Lotus would then cause the warframes to turn against the empire.

 

Every mission you do for the Lotus is bringing her one step closer to reviving/bringing back the Sentients; she's just manipulating you for her own "personal" gain.

[Orca917K]

i trust the highest bidder 

[Oakenman]

not only do i trust her, i would protect her. When Hek threatened to throw her into the sun i got &!$$ed. His hatred of the lotus is what fuled my Balor Fomorian Destroying Crusade. 

 

I will say this though...

 

I do not know her intentions. I do not know how/if she will me. I don't even know who she really is. I only know what my com stations tell me. But i do know this. she doesn't want to lose us. And she saved my life. And i owe her for that. Or that's what i would say if i were tenno

Edited February 1, 2015 by Oakenman

[BaIthazar]

Something I posted last time a similar question was asked:

 

 

New Answer:

 

No I don't trust her. The Orokin did not make Lotus, nor did they know of her existence. She is the Sentient's solution to the orokin's warframes. The Orokin thought they'd won but the Sentients made an AI to control them even after their alleged demise. Later, Lotus would then cause the warframes to turn against the empire.

 

Every mission you do for the Lotus is bringing her one step closer to reviving/bringing back the Sentients; she's just manipulating you for her own "personal" gain.

an interesting theory,

fun as fan-fiction, but not to be believed blindly, though people can roll with this theory if they want to, I won't stop you from a role-playing standpoint.

 

but I'm still clinging to DE's personal opinion..

people can think she is evil or hides her motives.

but DE states she was good.. meaning it cannot be denied.

 

still a fun read and interesting idea of subliminal illusions of the real world :P

you should write a full-on story about this... I'd read it

[HiSaZuL]

You guys defending Lotus are so boring...

 

Cmon, some backwater guy like Ryk got epic lines... what does Lotus have? Go fetch, now I extract you out of this mission cuz reasons, go do this because it's important for some reason.

 

Ryk? First time I heard his " I WILL FILL MY LUNGS WITH YOUR DEATH!" I truly felt the voice of a man who deeply enjoys his work. He would even go as far as incinerate you and then breath you in... Now that is a man worthy of respect. Lotus just makes my ears feel like someone is trying to scratch my ear drums with a spork.

 

Hek may not have the most glorious lines and he's a bit too chatty... almost as chatty as Vor but his laugh makes up for any short comings his vocabulary may present. And recently he almost made kids cry... almost. We didn't support him well enough sadly. If Eris was the only place left with relay... I'd nominate him for president right there and then. He would have made kids cry. What has Lotus accomplished? Well... aside from being aggravating distraction and being an angry radio talk show host that can't help but scream about torches, pitchforks and burning infidels in righteous shower of hot lead/plasma/lasers.

Edited February 1, 2015 by HiSaZuL

[OverlordMcGeek]

Gonna leave this here:

 

In normal times, evil would be fought by good. But in times like these, well, it should be fought by another kind of evil.-Aereon, from The Chronicles of Rid$&*^

 

 

This is my stance on the lotus as much as who we are to the system. Since WE are the the tenno, and looking around in region chat and the forums, we are severely demented people that only want to see the entire system burn to the ground.