(PSN)kiddplay13 Posted February 1, 2015 Author Share Posted February 1, 2015 Ok whatever, when Raids are implemented and everyone steamrolls and says there's no challenge, we'll see who was right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)jwernecke Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 So if you guys run T4 with little to no problem with any frames, why are you complaining? You argued yourself on my side and didn't even know it smh No....I'm saying that your idea is to put us back to where only DPS matters. If it isn't done is time it isn't done at all. I say let me play my game my way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiteoHatto Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 (edited) Wipe: Timed Moved the Boss does if they fail to kill him in the allotted time Cheap One Shot: Move the Boss does in ANY amount of time that can kill an entire party My definiton has not changed, i cannot any make it anymore simpler. If you have great experience with MMO's you'd understand the difference. Cheap one shots are what wipes are.(they are the cause of wipes at the very core). It's "you die if you fail to use X in time when boss uses Y". Timed boss mechanic is not a wipe itself, it's a mechanic placed on the boss that forces players to use "the most dps" setups to kill the boss in allocated time. There is a difference between bosses that are just HP sponges and HP sponges that can wipe parties because of skills(and players failing to use skill x,y,z.. ) regardless of the timelimit imposed on the player. Edited February 1, 2015 by kiteohatto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)jwernecke Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Cheap one shots are what wipes are.(they are the cause of wipes at the very core). It's "you die if you fail to use X in time when boss uses Y". Timed boss mechanic is not a wipe itself, it's a mechanic placed on the boss that forces players to use "the most dps" setups to kill the boss in allocated time. There is a difference between bosses that are just HP sponges and HP sponges that can wipe parties because of skills(and players failing to use skill x,y,z.. ) regardless of the timelimit imposed on the player. The timed thing is what I have the biggest issue with. Not everything needs to be about DPS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)kiddplay13 Posted February 1, 2015 Author Share Posted February 1, 2015 He can use cheap tactics all he wants, as long as we and him can avoid each other's tactics, it is fine. Dispel is a thing. Bosses are invulnerable sometimes. Then those aren't cheap tactics then if both parties can avoid them. Cheap tactics are something likes hiding in a unreachable spot or glitching the boss. Tactics are skillfully planned strategies on how to beat the boss legitimately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)jwernecke Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Then those aren't cheap tactics then if both parties can avoid them. Cheap tactics are something likes hiding in a unreachable spot or glitching the boss. Tactics are skillfully planned strategies on how to beat the boss legitimately. Those are not cheap tricks. Those are a broken game and need to be fixed. This has been my point since the first page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)kiddplay13 Posted February 1, 2015 Author Share Posted February 1, 2015 Cheap one shots are what wipes are.(they are the cause of wipes at the very core). It's "you die if you fail to use X in time when boss uses Y". Timed boss mechanic is not a wipe itself, it's a mechanic placed on the boss that forces players to use "the most dps" setups to kill the boss in allocated time. Why in the WORLD would you not go with a Damage setup if the whole goal is to kill the boss?????? That.. doesn't even what????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)kiddplay13 Posted February 1, 2015 Author Share Posted February 1, 2015 Those are not cheap tricks. Those are a broken game and need to be fixed. This has been my point since the first page. Look, you and me both know when you exploit is fixed, three more pop up. There is no such thing as a cure all in this game. There are many examples i can provide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)jwernecke Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 (edited) Look, you and me both know when you exploit is fixed, three more pop up. There is no such thing as a cure all in this game. There are many examples i can provide. It is up to you at that point to be a better person and take pride in what you do and oh I don't know DONT USE THEM. Don't ruin my game because others would exploit it. Edited February 1, 2015 by (PS4)jwernecke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)kiddplay13 Posted February 1, 2015 Author Share Posted February 1, 2015 (edited) It is up to you at that point to be a better person and take pride in what you do and oh I don't know DONT USE THEM. Don't ruin my game because others would exploit it. I was using only calling you out because we both know exploits are never truly banished in online games (As for the rest of us in this thread) Edited February 1, 2015 by (PS4)kiddplay13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiteoHatto Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 (edited) Why in the WORLD would you not go with a Damage setup if the whole goal is to kill the boss?????? That.. doesn't even what????? Because in games where wiping exists there are also a variety of roles and classes......not everyone is able to go dps in 6/10/24 man groups otherwise wiping... is inevitable unless stupidly overgeared. Edited February 1, 2015 by kiteohatto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Raids are the for the skilled players who seek a challenge, they ARE NOT for people just to spend all day kiting a boss because they can't beat him straight up. What some of you are saying are the true definition of a double standard. You can use cheap tactics against the boss, but he can't use his "cheap tactics" These kind of cheap tactics can be avoided by designing a better boss fight that counters kiting. Wipe mechanics are a cheap way to counter it. Don't throw on a cheap quick-fix mechanic, design a better fight as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)kiddplay13 Posted February 1, 2015 Author Share Posted February 1, 2015 Because in games where wiping exists there are also a variety of roles and classes......not everyone is able to go dps in 6/10/24 man groups otherwise wiping... is inevitable unless stupidly overgeared. The most common Raid set up is: 2 Support 2 Controllers 3 DPS 1 Tank. DPS will obviously be damage based Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackel7 Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 please keep in mind that some Bosses already in warfare can teleport! Ex. Vor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiteoHatto Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 (edited) The most common Raid set up is: 2 Support 2 Controllers 3 DPS 1 Tank. DPS will obviously be damage based And in this game do we have a tank that can pull aggro ? Do we have a clearly defined cc class/controllers ? No. What we have is all dps with a flavor of CC or survivability. Timed mechanic WILL work in warfrmae but it's not going to be able to bring anything new or interesting. "Hey guys, this boss has a lot of hp and we have a timer, bring all your maxed meta gear". It's nothing new or challenging. The wipes im talking about and the wipes you are talking about are different things. Edited February 1, 2015 by kiteohatto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Why in the WORLD would you not go with a Damage setup if the whole goal is to kill the boss?????? That.. doesn't even what????? Maybe you want to build for suvivability. Maybe you don't want to be locked into using a certain team set up in order to get the most damage output. Maybe you want to build for range, duration. Building to play the way you enjoy most is one of the things that makes warframe awesome, and timed wipe mechanics could greatly interfere with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haukai Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 I vote against that. I also vote against Bosses dispelling all abilities. Why ?Because not being able to use abilities would turn the game back to what used to be the beginning of Archwing :Everyone uses his Rhino Prime/Valkyr with maxed health/shields/armor because that's the most viable. Abilities are those things that make squishy/non-tanky frames viable later on, if you take that off, there will be no point in using those.And adding a wipe ability if you don't kill the boss fast enough, that would basically kill diversity, and make every bosses become like Lephantis :Dealing too much damage per shot is for scrubs, so we add a damage cap that makes it so that you can't use Snipers/Bows/Launchers effectively, forcing you to use your high RoF + DPS gear being : Boltor/Soma P for primaries, and Synoid Gammacor/Synoid Gammacor for secondaries (<- see what I did there ?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)kiddplay13 Posted February 1, 2015 Author Share Posted February 1, 2015 (edited) And in this game do we have a tank that can pull aggro ? Do we have a clearly defined cc class/controllers ? Support= Trinity and Limbo Controllers= Nova and Bansee, Nyx, Loki DPS: Mesa, Ash, Saryn (or Nyx and Mag) Tank= OBVIOUSLY Valkyr and Rhino Just becuase you don't know the difference doesn't mean i don't Edited February 1, 2015 by (PS4)kiddplay13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToolboxMotley Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 (edited) Ranged abilities doesn't stop Valkyr who is invincible to all damage, ranged attacks doesn't stop Limbo and Rift Walk. Ranged Attacks doesn't stop Hydroid and his puddle. That's why we need a Wipe ability. Valkyr gets limited to melee, Limbo can't actually hurt anything without ridiculous juggling that can easily do more harm than good, and Hydroid is made stationary with negligible damage. And regardless, extravagant Warframe abilities are what make this game. If you want to play a game where your powers and customization choices mean jack-diddly-squat, there are plenty of other game choices out there. I'd mention some, but someone might take offense at me insulting a game they like, and I'd rather not drag the thread off-track. Some high-damage abilities that make the boss dangerous, I absolutely agree with. But not outright instant-kill-no-matter-what mechanics that severely hamper the gameplay experience for anyone that doesn't play a certain way, such as building exclusively for damage output. (I can see the recruitment messages now. "LFG > Raid, ROAR RHINO/DAMAGE NOVA AND SYNOID GAMMACOR/SOMA PRIME ONLY." Or whatever the highest-damage weapons are now, I don't give a rat's backside about the pure damage approach.) Edited February 1, 2015 by ToolboxMotley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiteoHatto Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Support= Trinity and Limbo Controllers= Nova and Bansee, Nyx, Loki DPS: Mesa, Ash, Saryn (or Nyx and Mag) Tank= OBVIOUSLY Valkyr and Rhino Just becuase you don't know the difference doesn't mean i don't ..sigh. Can rhino/valk pull the aggro via a skill so the above(supports/cc/dps) can focus on their "roles". Didn't think so, until they can...you can't have a mechanic that relies on group management when the classes don't have the right tools to group manage. Can you also stop belittling me ? It's getting really annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)kiddplay13 Posted February 1, 2015 Author Share Posted February 1, 2015 ..sigh. Can rhino/valk pull the aggro via a skill so the above(supports/cc/dps) can focus on their "roles". Didn't think so, until they can...you can't have a mechanic that relies on group management when the classes don't have the right tools to group manage. Can you also stop belittling me ? It's getting really annoying. Yes actually, Iron Skin does pull more aggro. And Valkyr can literally pull the aggro. Next question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)jwernecke Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Yes actually, Iron Skin does pull more aggro. And Valkyr can literally pull the aggro. Next question. Iron Skin is the most worthless ability in the game of late. Watched a clan mate get one shot through a new iron skin by an eviscerator. This is a dude that is not new to modding. Take Valkyr to Vay Hek or the Raptor and see how much good Hysteria does for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)kiddplay13 Posted February 1, 2015 Author Share Posted February 1, 2015 (edited) Iron Skin is the most worthless ability in the game of late. Watched a clan mate get one shot through a new iron skin by an eviscerator. This is a dude that is not new to modding. Take Valkyr to Vay Hek or the Raptor and see how much good Hysteria does for you. More than sure the bosses we will be fighting won't be able to fly. And weren't you just saying how with wipes we'll all be using Rhino Primes and all that other stuff? Edited February 1, 2015 by (PS4)kiddplay13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)jwernecke Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 More than sure the bosses we will be fighting won't be able to fly. And weren't you just saying how with wipes we'll all be using Rhino Primes and all that other stuff? I guess I don't see why it isn't a possibility. There are many ways to keep a boss out of your melee range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
es.iiden Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 There's a huge difference between tactical and straight up cheating. Hiding behind a crate so the boss can't even touch you isn't even fair. ...what? are you kidding me? so bosses like Stalker can abuse the system but a player decides he wants to hide to NOT GET KILLED is cheating by a boss who most likely has more power, more HP and most likely more abilities? your logic is astounding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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