Npc Accuracy

[Second_Measure]

Will the enemies change their behavior and try to adapt when fighting outside their optimal distance?

 

For example, will the Grineer Heavy Gunner try to shoot with her Gorgon in bursts from a bigger distance, but goes full auto close up?

Or will Snipers try to run away from you to keep a certain safe distance between him/herself and the Tenno?

 

E: Gender typo fixed.

Edited February 3, 2015 by Second_Measure

[Sizer]

A good step in the right direction, I think. I'd like to see some followup mechanics in the future, like visual aim cues for sniper enemies, but even still, a very welcome step in the right direction.

[Mizar0011]

God I love the technical details posts.

[Llyssa]

Well, I hope this improves gameplay.

 

A tad worried, as I've been abusing the cone thing for a while now(it makes sense that they suck at aiming at you if you're circling them!)

 

Perhaps the cone could remain in play, as a partial modifier?

 

Otherwise this sounds like it will negate the usefulness of flanking maneuvers entirely.

[(PSN)renosis]

I do like this change and appreciate the explanation. I am hoping this and the net code changes fixes the issues I am having. When playing it seems that when I am host I take a significant amount more damage than when I am client. This difference is very significant, specifically in games where network latency is high, but also in games where network speeds are decent. My internet connection isn't blazingly fast, but I figure it should do fine on Warframe as it does fine on other games (get only 3mbps up and 30 mbps down). Also, I haven't had these issues till recently.

Edited February 3, 2015 by (PS4)renosis

[wtrmlnjuc]

So many improvements and it's only the first week of February!

[Lynxh]

Much appreciated post. Though like some have mentioned, more detailed info on accuracy reduction and the mechanics of the ramp up time would be appreciated as well :P.

 

All in all, seems good.

[unknow99]

Wow, that is a really interesting workshop. (Workshops are very cool,we should have more of them)

 

I'd just suggest 2 little thing to make enemies shooting greater :

 

1) Why not also pair the accuracy a little with the NPC's level? 'Cause you know, a lvl 1 lancer could have less skill than a lvl 50 lancer.

 

2) Can sniper units get a nearly invisible laser attached to their scope? Enough to make you notice that you're being aimed at, without making it too telegraphable.

 

Good news, this may really be the year of quality you're talking about!

[(PSN)VariantX7]

Great! That should be the end of npc's constantly having bleed procs on you in later grineer worlds and corpus elites having perfect aim no matter how fast you run, flip or otherwise.

 

#yearofquality

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

You know its funny cause the Grineer and Corpus where pretty much the oposite in aiming. Corpus where pretty much Storm troopers missing 99% of the time even if your not moving while no matter how fast your precious Loki Prime master race is all Grineer soldiers will hit you 99% of the time. Mind you most of these soldiers use a GRAKATA! and as a Grakata user myself i know that S#&$ kicks like a mule when going full auto. I know Grineer armor is supposed to counter the kick but COME ON!

 

Hope they fix this so one day i that Ember speed buff is worth a dam.

[TheErebus.]

You know its funny cause the Grineer and Corpus where pretty much the oposite in aiming. Corpus where pretty much Storm troopers missing 99% of the time even if your not moving while no matter how fast your precious Loki Prime master race is all Grineer soldiers will hit you 99% of the time. Mind you most of these soldiers use a GRAKATA! and as a Grakata user myself i know that S#&$ kicks like a mule when going full auto. I know Grineer armor is supposed to counter the kick but COME ON!

Really? To me it's the opposite. The Grineer rarely pose a threat to me unless I'm right up in their faces, but the corpus ALWAYS GET ME. Dem deras aren't safe ;~;

[Rydian]

You know its funny cause the Grineer and Corpus where pretty much the oposite in aiming. Corpus where pretty much Storm troopers missing 99% of the time even if your not moving while no matter how fast your precious Loki Prime master race is all Grineer soldiers will hit you 99% of the time. Mind you most of these soldiers use a GRAKATA! and as a Grakata user myself i know that S#&$ kicks like a mule when going full auto. I know Grineer armor is supposed to counter the kick but COME ON!

 

Hope they fix this so one day i that Ember speed buff is worth a dam.

Do you tend to be a client instead of a host?  Accuracy versus clients is bad right now, one of the things they hope to fix.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/381733-hosting-causes-drastic-increase-of-enemy-accuracy-please-read-de/page-7#entry4319801

[CY13ERPUNK]

good stuff DanielB

 

hyped to see how these changes play ingame =]

[(PSN)Bowjangelz]

Thanks DE!! Can't wait for this to hit the consoles. Hopefully all my time trying to stay alive when I've solo'd and hosted vs all those aimbots will mean that now I'll feel like a super-ninja. xD

[ZizWing]

I hate to say it but I have the feeling a new accuracy system may effect Zephyr's Turbulence ability either positively or negatively. When these changes go in can you guys please make sure the ability keeps working as intended. I'd hate the fact that a sniper would be able to shoot through it and kill me due to his accuracy being insanely high at a certain distance. I may be a bit overcautious but Zephyr is my favorite frame to use but enemy accuracy is the factor for her survivability. I'd just like a confirmation that it will keep working the way it does. Other than this concern I have it really sounds like a massive improvement, great job!

[KingTaro]

That was an interesting read, Daniel. Glad you guys shared it with us.

Could you perhapse also break it down for us, the way mobility affects the graphs?

 

 

I'm especially interested in knowing whether it is more related to the speed at which the tenno is going or to the animations.

 

For instance, two frames rushing at the same speed. One is a Volt simply running with his Speed buff, the other is rushing using the slide attack. So both are going at the same speed, but are using different animations to move. One is running, the other is sliding.

 

Do both frames have the same chance to avoid being hit in this case, since they are going at the same speed?

Or is one going to have a higher chance to dodge because he's using a certain animation that provides a higher dodge chance by default?

 

If animations matter, I'd like to hear which moves affect enemie's accuracy the most.

Or maybe this should also be listed under this weeks patch note.

 

Anyway, really looking forward to this weeks update!

[--Q--WaffleZ]

That explain a lot that why sometimes the enemy is super accurate when I'm hosting or soloing.

 

The new system looks promising, can't wait to test it.  

Keep up the good work!

[direcyphre]

Sounds like a really neat system! Hopefully it uh... works for both client and host, unlike other implementations.

[C2rtain_D2ath]

Thanks DE

[Ithloniel]

These changes seem really cool and interesting.  Looking forward to playing with them!

 

And now the question all Excaliburs are wondering... do blinded enemies need to ramp back up to their max accuracy?

 

(please)

 

EDIT: It would solve that problem of enemies dropping out of blind and pegging people instantly, like they have some special sixth sense to see "soon-to-be-dead" Tenno.

Edited February 3, 2015 by Ithloniel

[-SLX-J3tAc3]

 

 

 

Enemy accuracy has been a hot topic for some time, so I thought it would be a good topic for a Developer Workshop post to explain how the system works under the hood and what changes are coming in this week’s update on PC.

 

We’ve been using the same system for controlling NPC aiming for quite some time now - all the way back to the original Dark Sector! When an agent wants to shoot at a target, we consider a cone based on the agent’s accuracy, the distance to his target and the size of the target he is shooting at. We calculate a hit chance and then test to see if he should hit or not. If the shot should hit, we aim the shot at the target. However if the shot should miss, we calculate a position for the agent to aim at that should miss the target, but that should be in the target’s field of view. This should make the situation feel more intense with the player seeing ricochets and tracers hitting all around them.

 

This cone based algorithm has some issues.

A) It’s really hard for designers to control the actual hit / miss chance of the NPC agents. They can adjust the aim error angles, but other than larger aim error angles means less accurate, it is hard to predict the actual hit chance.

B) The actual hit probability has a strange characteristic where most NPCs end up being 100% accurate less than about 12m and their accuracy drops off dramatically until they almost can’t hit you at all at about 30m! A graph of the hit probability for a typical Grineer Lancer illustrates the problem clearly. 

 

These issues really don’t help reinforce the ninja gameplay we’re after, so we decided it was time to retire this venerable system and do something new.

 

Our new system is very designer-centric. We can define an “AimGraph” for the agents to use. This graph explicitly maps target range to hit probably. Each weapon can be assigned a different AimGraph, so we can now make an NPC aiming a pistol more accurate up close and have the hit chance drop off rapidly, while an NPC with a sniper rifle is now far less accurate up close, but gets more accurate at medium - long range before dropping off slowly. This allows us to simulate how unwieldy a weapon is, or the effects of a scope.

 

Pistol graph

Sniper graph

 

Additionally, the agent’s accuracy now will take some time after spotting you to ramp up to his maximum. No more sneaking up on a sniper only to have him spin around and instantly shoot you in the head!

 

Finally, we’ve addressed the accuracy discrepancy between host and client, which has been discussed at length here: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/381733-hosting-causes-drastic-increase-of-enemy-accuracy-please-read-de/

 

With the new aiming system in place, designers have more control over the accuracy of enemies and the weapon the NPC is using will have far more impact on his accuracy. You’ll be better off staying at long range against enemies with pistols and shotguns, but getting in close is now a good counter to long range snipers. Combined with the acrobatic aiming penalties, fast, agile Tenno should have plenty of options to avoid danger and dispatch their foes! You’ll be able to put your skills to the test this week on PC!

 

-DanielB

Thank you for sharing how aiming works, this is truly interesting! Please staff, continue sharing these technical/tech-ish posts!

[CapedBaldy]

Maybe now people will see how horribly squishy frames are without abilities.

[CedarDpg]

I hate to say it but I have the feeling a new accuracy system may effect Zephyr's Turbulence ability either positively or negatively. 

 

 

I'll bet the new accuracy system may affect lots of stuff either positively or negatively. And I don't hate to say it, because it's totally true. It might even not affect some stuff at all.

[ZizWing]

I'll bet the new accuracy system may affect lots of stuff either positively or negatively. And I don't hate to say it, because it's totally true. It might even not affect some stuff at all.

Yeah I'm not saying it's a bad thing, I'm just hoping turbulence won't get messed up somehow. That would completely destroy my favorite way to play >.< Also by destroy I mean change it in such a way that it's not a bug but still makes it worse.

[wolf4monks]

wow this would be amazing