Npc Accuracy

[RedHeadedStepChild]

How will cover work now, another modifier?

Edited February 4, 2015 by RedHeadedStepChild

[kirin9]

interesting. this will put more depth in game mechanic

[Marthrym]

If this actually works... Quality of life improvement through the roof!

 

All the game would need is "harmonization" between leveled and endless content... Then... happiness.

[Mak_Gohae]

These issues really don’t help reinforce the ninja gameplay we’re after, so we decided it was time to retire this venerable system and do something new.

 

 

You need to stop using ninja to make your points cause what you end up doing is not making sense.

Having weapons more accurate at closer range making the Tenno evade more is the meaning of something being ninja.

 

BTW... isnt this targeting method the one you originally had for players in the game?

Back in the day you couldn't hip fire snipers cause at close range the shot just went all over the place.

[Beef-DeathLegacy]

Sniper accuracy graph is very sensible. I like that change. Heck. It's all sensible now.

[cbxzcm]

Will this work for Tenno specters?

[Mirriky]

This sounds amazing on paper, I look forward to diving in and all over the place to try out this new system.

I hope this is the first of many old systems to be replaced this year

[Racercowboy]

Well, this looks interesting. looking forward to see how it plays out.

[King_p]

I know you explain the graphs but...

 

 

LABEL YOUR AXES

[Jukantos]

While is do appreciate the fact that nullifiers will no longer be a deadly melee killing machine in addition to their sniping potential, i see a HUGE issue here.

The amount of times where a Nullifier is just going to walk into the room behind my back and end my life with a single long-range bullet is going to skyrocket into TABLE-FLIPPING dimensions.

I really do love warframe, but the cheap one-shot enemies added to 3/4 factions lately are beginning to burn me out of the game. The instakill ooze was adressed appropiatly and this will make the nullifiers close up power less of a nightmare, but it does seem like it comes with some enormous downsides. When standing and fighting in an open room is now going to result in being sniped even more accurately, i'll have to resort to corner-camping strategies even more (which is absolutely not fun) just to counteract a unit that was introduced to counteract a stationary ability-based farming method.

Honestly, i think it's about time the Nullifier Technology turns out to be a lot less bulletproof than it is right now.

For crying out loud, in my honest opinion, you could even make their bubbles uncollapseable. Turn them into a supportive unit that sticks to its buddies, shielding them from the tennos holy wrath. Just stop them from sucking up 100 maxxed out soma prime bullets. There is no gameplay fun to be found in a bulletproof one-hit sniper unit. It's destroying the game even more than previous abuse cases, it has become almost impossible to get a T4 Survival invite if you're not strictly Nekros, Trinity, Vauban, Loki or Nova. Any of the other frames are met with extreme scepticism or straight up booted from the party, because they're pointless against nullifiers.

And what is this going to do to the accuracy of hunters? I'd REALLY like for stalker NOT to land 90% of his arrows because im zipping around trying to dodge at a medium distance. Same for Zanuka and the G3. And god, Corrupted Vor's Lazor Janus Key Beam could turn into a nightmare, depending on how the graphs are designed.

Please, tell me there won't be cheap oneshots in my back because a bubbled golden sniper unit entered the room and i gotta get closer for my synoid gammacor to do anything. I've become so desperate lately i've started mapping out builds for a Slash Dash Excalibur to counteract nullifier bubbles (since valkyrs ultimate is not an option)

[DrCrawford]

oh man, can't wait for this to be implemented!

[RealPandemonium]

Spoilers: this text is nigh-impossible to read on the dark forum scheme.

I can read it fine and he hasn't edited the post so it's likely on your end.

[ThePresident777]

Ooo, really really looking forward to this, I hope.

[LoopStricken]

I can read it fine and he hasn't edited the post so it's likely on your end.

 

It was edited and now looks fine, trust in me.

[Ketec]

i just hope it doesn't mean even  more accurate long range sniping enemies.

[MoonlightAngel]

alot of people complained about OPness of nullifiers. and nothing happen. i just......wow.

 

 

i just hope it doesn't mean even  more accurate long range sniping enemies.

 

sadly. yes. nullifiers will be even more deadly.

Edited February 5, 2015 by MoonlightAngel

[--FrodurHobbitz]

Best thing is when npcs prefire,before they even see you. :)

Edited February 5, 2015 by bobmarley1337

[Totorochan]

Nullifier nerf, or nullifier buff?

 

My first inclindation was nerf, as changing sniper accuracy this way would make them comically innacurate inside their own bubble. Adding a "spin up" mechanic to accuracy largely negates whatever threat they would represent at long range. Let's be serious, a nullifier is a top priority target, every tenno hard swaps to them and kills them as fast as possible. They literally will not live long enough to build up their accuracy.

 

I suppose it depends on the mechanics. Maybe they can become super mega giga accurate, and sniper npcs will be capable of red crits.

Or maybe sniper npcs will suddenly start carrying side arms. Wouldn't that be fun? Nullifier swaps to a pistol and shoots that silly ninja right in his silly ninja face! BANG! Revive or Forfeit skuum!

[iuki.]

See how this plays, either it will improve the game or not. This looks like it is a huge buff to mobs. Also it looks like the current dev direction is to force people to be constantly moving so semi auto/sniper rifles might fall further behind the current top choice weapons. Guess we shall find out soon!

Edited February 5, 2015 by fizbit

[Deimos87]

Enemy accuracy has been a hot topic for some time, so I thought it would be a good topic for a Developer Workshop post to explain how the system works under the hood and what changes are coming in this week’s update on PC.

 

We’ve been using the same system for controlling NPC aiming for quite some time now - all the way back to the original Dark Sector! When an agent wants to shoot at a target, we consider a cone based on the agent’s accuracy, the distance to his target and the size of the target he is shooting at. We calculate a hit chance and then test to see if he should hit or not. If the shot should hit, we aim the shot at the target. However if the shot should miss, we calculate a position for the agent to aim at that should miss the target, but that should be in the target’s field of view. This should make the situation feel more intense with the player seeing ricochets and tracers hitting all around them.

 

This cone based algorithm has some issues.

A) It’s really hard for designers to control the actual hit / miss chance of the NPC agents. They can adjust the aim error angles, but other than larger aim error angles means less accurate, it is hard to predict the actual hit chance.

B) The actual hit probability has a strange characteristic where most NPCs end up being 100% accurate less than about 12m and their accuracy drops off dramatically until they almost can’t hit you at all at about 30m! A graph of the hit probability for a typical Grineer Lancer illustrates the problem clearly. 

 

These issues really don’t help reinforce the ninja gameplay we’re after, so we decided it was time to retire this venerable system and do something new.

 

Our new system is very designer-centric. We can define an “AimGraph” for the agents to use. This graph explicitly maps target range to hit probably. Each weapon can be assigned a different AimGraph, so we can now make an NPC aiming a pistol more accurate up close and have the hit chance drop off rapidly, while an NPC with a sniper rifle is now far less accurate up close, but gets more accurate at medium - long range before dropping off slowly. This allows us to simulate how unwieldy a weapon is, or the effects of a scope.

 

Pistol graph

Sniper graph

 

Additionally, the agent’s accuracy now will take some time after spotting you to ramp up to his maximum. No more sneaking up on a sniper only to have him spin around and instantly shoot you in the head!

 

Finally, we’ve addressed the accuracy discrepancy between host and client, which has been discussed at length here: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/381733-hosting-causes-drastic-increase-of-enemy-accuracy-please-read-de/

 

With the new aiming system in place, designers have more control over the accuracy of enemies and the weapon the NPC is using will have far more impact on his accuracy. You’ll be better off staying at long range against enemies with pistols and shotguns, but getting in close is now a good counter to long range snipers. Combined with the acrobatic aiming penalties, fast, agile Tenno should have plenty of options to avoid danger and dispatch their foes! You’ll be able to put your skills to the test this week on PC!

 

-DanielB

Second DE's Wonderfull Work since Update 11: Damage 2.0 and Melee 2.0!

[_Akasha]

This Affects Specters as well yeah? Because...their accuracy is terrible.

[Tyrian3k]

These graphs make for a good baseline I'd say, but I still feel that the movement speed of the target of the npc should also have impact on accuracy and/or their fire/burst rate.

 

This could be done by reducing their accuracy further depending on how fast they have to turn to keep the aim on you, potentially with a short delay when the turning stops.

 

The effect would be that you don't have to move at long ranges since their accuracy is already decently bad at that point (save for snipers maybe) and that moving at high speeds will keep you safer when you're at close range.

 

Instead of accuracy it could also be their fire/burst rate that is reduced, simulating that they take longer to aim properly.

[CyborgTek]

Thanks DE!!

[Chhkt]

Finally, the one word I usually curse during T4 missions may no longer be obligatory.

 

LANKAAAAAAAAA! >:(

[Hinoiki]

yay this means i wont be 360-no scoped by corpus bubblemen anymore n_n

Edited February 5, 2015 by Hinoiki