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R5 Cores Are Still Nerfed After Hotfix 15.14...

pungent.snatch

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pungent.snatch

pungent.snatch

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 Mission Reward Changes
The following Missions / Rotations have been updated to include a pack of 5 Rare Fusion Cores as a reward:
- Hard Survival Missions (Enemy Level 20+), reward available on Rotation A .
- Hard Interception Missions (Enemy Level 20+), reward available on Rotation B.

 

All this means is that they added them back in but its still just as hard to farm them. Rare 5 packs now drop on regular starchart missions. However, they only drop on Rotation A.

 

To DE: The issue is NOT that some level 20+ missions are using Medium Tier Rewards (although it is great that you have fixed this problem). The community has an issue with the incredibly low drop rate chance of R5 packs (only a mere 25% for Survival Rotation A and 50% for Interception Rotation B according to DERebecca and results of datamining by staff). The community also has an issue with these packs being limited to only Rotation A (for Survival) and Rotation B (for Interception). I don't think the community has an issue with these cores being taken out of the Void ONLY IF the drop rates remained the same. The main issue is that by limiting these cores to only certain rotations and reducing the drop rate for them, you are increasing the grind. Cores were easily obtainable before the T4 survival nerf but they were still very time consuming to get (i.e. 50 minute T4 survival could get you around 30 R5s if you were lucky). You then proceed to decrease the drop rate and limit them to one rotation. When the community talks about grind, we're not talking about the grind to get T4 keys. We're talking about the grind to get cores on a consistent basis with the large amount of time spent. The most recent hotfix you rolled out has not changed anything about the issue of R5 cores. You are not looking at the correct issue.

 

R5 Cores Needed to Max:

[MOD] [R10] Common: 132
[MOD] [R10] Uncommon: 264
[MOD] [R10] Rare: 396
[MOD] [R10] Legendary (Primed): 528
 
All credit for these numbers goes to wearing_socks.
 
Community Responses:
 
All credit for these responses goes to the respective users (indicated within the brackets).
 

Rotation A (Enemy Level 20+) Drop Table:

- 2000 Credit Cache Reward
- 2500 Credit Cache Reward
- [1] Uncommon Fusion Core
- [1] Rare Fusion Core
- [MOD] Steady Hands
- [MOD] Stabilizer
- [MOD] Power Throw
 
Hypothetical Math:
All of them have a 14.29% chance of dropping. Add in Rare 5 fusion core packs. All of them now have a 12.5% chance of dropping. In comparison, T4 Survival used to offer a 77% chance of dropping Rare 5 fusion core packs in Rotation A since they were considered a "common" reward. They then added in 3x Orokin Cells in Rotation A as a "common" reward which halved the chances of getting a Rare 5 pack in Rotation A again (38.5% now). 
 
R5 Pack "%" chance of dropping:
Original Rotation A of T4 Survival: 77%
Post-nerf Rotation A of T4 Survival: 38.5%
Current Rotation A on regular starchart missions: 12.5%
 
All credit for these percentages goes to cyrus106.
 
Evidence:
The following data is from Hotfix 15.13.8.
Results from five 10 minute runs of Pluto, Cerese, Neptune, and Uranus:
8sc7gnm6.jpgasx9ikug.jpg4mrcizpz.jpgbe5f6g25.jpg5eu2iy7y.jpg
 
Results from five 10 minute runs on Ceres only.
zpj3xr5k.jpgpu8frxnm.jpgja8dl2b5.jpg4r3lpraj.jpgt92crf37.jpg
 
Results from five 10 minute runs on Pluto only.
s7honwiy.jpgf8kfyo6o.jpgefjf2poc.jpgzu8rtfmn.jpg4x7l4kmg.jpg
 
The following data is from Hotfix 15.14.0.
Results from six 10 minute runs on Uranus only.
zbyvibjm.jpgqa5j4eor.jpgvyt6i733.jpgarxnt8ih.jpgq2njpcnd.jpghnxff5au.jpg
 
All credit for these pictures goes to Dunkingmachine.
 
I know they're spread out on all starchart missions (Enemy Level 20+), which is great since there isn't a need to go into the void anymore, but there's still no reliable way to farm for them.
 
I mean, they're back so that's a step in the right direction but they're still very hard to farm. From what I understand, this is what it sounds like but I could be wrong. The patch notes weren't very specific. Can we get an official response to this from a DE staff member? Thoughts?
 
TL;DR: First, they nerf T4 survival R5 pack's drop rate by half. Then they reintroduce them on starchart missions but drop rate is even worse than the post-nerf T4 survival R5 pack's drop rate. It is now much harder to farm for cores. Then they slap us in the face by releasing primed mods which we'll never be able to max now.
 
TL;DR v2.0: They've tripled the grind for getting R5 packs.
 
Proposed Solution:
- Remove Credit Cache rewards and increase the credits gained from a mission.
- Place cores on planets according to their rarity.
  [-] Common (Bronze) Cores [0-10 Enemy Level]
  [-] Uncommon (Silver) Cores [10-20 Enemy Level]
  [-] Rare (Gold) Cores [20+ Enemy Level]
- Increase drop rate chance of R5 packs and make them available on Rotation A and B or all rotations.
- All Void missions only provide prime parts. This would reduce RNG.
- Forma blueprints are only found in Orokin Derelict missions. This would also reduce RNG.
Edited by Delirin
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VKhaun

VKhaun

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Looks like they wanted to stop people from feeling like they had to do T4S for cores, and spread out the search for cores to lots of game modes. Letting us find cores in ABC all over the system would have been too common, though it may not seem like it from the top looking down when you have all these 10 rankers to deal with lately, an average/new player is not in that situation.

Edited by VKhaun
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cyrus106

cyrus106

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Posted (edited)

Let's look at why this "re-inclusion of R5 cores" might actually be waaaaay worse than running t4 survival:

 

Drop rate of high level survival missions on star chart:

 

+2000 Credits Cache,1,COMMON, 14.2% (estimated)

+2500 Credits Cache,1,COMMON,14.2% (estimated)    

+Fusion Core,1,COMMON,14.2% (estimated)    

+Fusion Core,1,COMMON,14.2% (estimated) 

+Steady Hands,1,COMMON,14.2% (estimated)  

+Stabilizer,1,COMMON,14.2% (estimated)    

+Power Throw,1,COMMON,14.2% (estimated)

 

 

Let's add R5 core packs into that, assuming they are also categorized as "common"

 

100/7 rewards = 14.2% (the old rates of rotation A in high level survival)

 

100/8 rewards(Add the r5 core pack) = 12.5% chance. in rotation A

 

Why is this terrible?

 

The old T4 survival rates were 77% (they were the only "common" drop in rotation A). By including O cellsx3 in the "common" type, rare 5 packs were cut in half: 38.5%.

 

Now tell me....which is better? 38.5%? Or.....12.5%?

Edited by cyrus106
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pungent.snatch

pungent.snatch

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Go look at the Hotfix thread again.  Someone posted a screenshot of Redtext saying it's specifically within the Star Chart.

 

Ok, maybe mentioning the Void wasn't a good idea since it wasn't a very good example. However, don't ignore the issue at hand which is that there's still no reliable fusion core farming method.

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pungent.snatch

pungent.snatch

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Let's look at why this "re-inclusion of R5 cores" might actually be waaaaay worse than running t4 survival:

 

Drop rate of high level survival missions on star chart:

 

+2000 Credits Cache,1,COMMON, 14.2% (estimated)

+2500 Credits Cache,1,COMMON,14.2% (estimated)    

+Fusion Core,1,COMMON,14.2% (estimated)    

+Fusion Core,1,COMMON,14.2% (estimated) 

+Steady Hands,1,COMMON,14.2% (estimated)  

+Stabilizer,1,COMMON,14.2% (estimated)    

+Power Throw,1,COMMON,14.2% (estimated)

 

 

Let's add R5 core packs into that, assuming they are also categorized as "common"

 

100/7 rewards = 14.2% (the old rates of rotation A in high level survival)

 

100/8 rewards(Add the r5 core pack) = 12.5% chance. in rotation A

 

Why is this terrible?

 

The old T4 survival rates were 77% (they were the only "common" drop in rotation A). By including O cellsx3 in the "common" type, rare 5 packs were cut in half: 38.5%.

 

Now tell me....which is better? 38.5%? Or.....12.5%?

 

Thanks for the help. You're example is way more informative than what I was trying to say. Added that to my original post and gave you credit.

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9tailboy

9tailboy

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Posted

Let's look at why this "re-inclusion of R5 cores" might actually be waaaaay worse than running t4 survival:

 

Drop rate of high level survival missions on star chart:

 

+2000 Credits Cache,1,COMMON, 14.2% (estimated)

+2500 Credits Cache,1,COMMON,14.2% (estimated)    

+Fusion Core,1,COMMON,14.2% (estimated)    

+Fusion Core,1,COMMON,14.2% (estimated) 

+Steady Hands,1,COMMON,14.2% (estimated)  

+Stabilizer,1,COMMON,14.2% (estimated)    

+Power Throw,1,COMMON,14.2% (estimated)

 

 

Let's add R5 core packs into that, assuming they are also categorized as "common"

 

100/7 rewards = 14.2% (the old rates of rotation A in high level survival)

 

100/8 rewards(Add the r5 core pack) = 12.5% chance. in rotation A

 

Why is this terrible?

 

The old T4 survival rates were 77% (they were the only "common" drop in rotation A). By including O cellsx3 in the "common" type, rare 5 packs were cut in half: 38.5%.

 

Now tell me....which is better? 38.5%? Or.....12.5%?

38.5%, 3 o cells is still good, but I'd obviously take a bigger hit in 5 r5s, just hoping that RNG devil does not hate on me and grants me thy cores.

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pungent.snatch

pungent.snatch

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Fun fact: some people actually play Void missions for Prime parts.  And at any rate, it's not just Void missions.  It's ALL missions.

 

 

They are still nerfed yes but

they said missions, they didnt say just void

it might be for all missions level 20+

 

 

I don't think that included void missions, it makes no sense to take them out of voids then to put them back into voids.

 

 

They're on starchart missions too.

 

 

If they mean all types of survival and interceptions level 20+, then it's perfect! I don't need to waste my T4S/Int keys on cores anymore :D

 

I misread the redtext so that's a mistake on my part. The drop rates for Rare 5s are still much worse in comparison to old T4 Survival though. Instead of a 38.5% chance of getting a pack, you now have a 12.5 chance of getting a pack. 

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pungent.snatch

pungent.snatch

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Well... don't get your hopes up. Just finished 5 10 minute runs on eris, ceres, pluto and uranus. This is the underwhelming result:

8sc7gnm6.jpgasx9ikug.jpg4mrcizpz.jpg5eu2iy7y.jpgbe5f6g25.jpg

 

It's 1 pack out of 10 rewards. Back to burning void keys i guess...

 

Thanks for posting results. We need evidence like this if we want to change anything. This will bring more attention to the current issue with cores. I'll try to add this to my original post. Of course, all credit will go to you (I won't take any credit for these pictures). Thanks again for your help.

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pungent.snatch

pungent.snatch

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How you are all calculated this?

 

Don't you all notice already, this (or any) game have droptable. And rare (literaly) items.

So absolutly no reason (exept experience) to tell what.

 

You cant just consider that all items in table have the same droprate.

 

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Orokin_Void/Rewards#SurvivalPC

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Survival

 

These aren't just random statistics that we're making up. If you do the research yourself, you should be able to find all this information. Drop tables show all the information already. Using simple math, that's how you find the percentage numbers that we're using.

 

For example:

Rotation A (Enemy Level 20+) Drop Table:
- 2000 Credit Cache Reward
- 2500 Credit Cache Reward
- Uncommon Fusion Core
- Rare Fusion Core
- Steady Hands
- Stabilizer
- Power Throw
- Rare 5 Pack
 
There are 8 items there. 100% divided by 8 = 12.5. That means you have a 12.5% chance of getting each item on there.
Edited by Delirin
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Halser

Halser

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Posted

How you are all calculated this?

 

Don't you all notice already, this (or any) game have droptable. And rare (literaly) items.

So absolutly no reason (exept experience) to tell what.

 

You cant just consider that all items in table have the same droprate.

If all drops in a list are set to 'common', they'll all have the same drop rate.

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kilerskull

kilerskull

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Guys, so I can go to Ceres, do a survival or Intercept and leave at the 5 min mark and have a 12% chance at getting gold cores? This is great because I dont have to waste keys and can rerunning the mission. I still feel this is more grind when I look at 77% chance vs 12%.

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pungent.snatch

pungent.snatch

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Guys, so I can go to Ceres, do a survival or Intercept and leave at the 5 min mark and have a 12% chance at getting gold cores? This is great because I dont have to waste keys and can rerunning the mission. I still feel this is more grind when I look at 77% chance vs 12%.

 

Yes, you're exactly correct. You have a 12% chance of getting a pack of gold cores. The difference is back when people used to run T4 survival, there was a 77% chance for the 5 minute mark, 10 minute mark, and the 15 minute mark. Then they had a lower chance at the 20 minute mark. Now we have a 12% chance on ONLY the 5 and 10 minute mark. We don't have to use keys anymore but its still very hard to get these packs of cores which is why something needs to be changed. You are also correct that this makes the grind much harder.

Edited by Delirin
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