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Delirin

R5 Cores Are Still Nerfed After Hotfix 15.14...

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I'm certain Sheldon is doing as some sort of sick experiment.

 

I honestly have no idea what they're doing. They want to reduce the grind but then they increase it. Simple solution though.

 

Rotation A (Enemy Level 20+) Drop Table:
[REMOVE] - 2000 Credit Cache Reward
[REMOVE] - 2500 Credit Cache Reward
[REMOVE] - Uncommon Fusion Core
[REMOVE] - One Rare Fusion Core
- Steady Hands
- Stabilizer
- Power Throw
- Rare 5 Pack
 
Result: Rare 5 pack now has a 25% chance of dropping.
Removed credit rewards, we can just increase the amount of credits you earn from a mission.
Rest of the cores: It should be level 0-10 survival missions [COMMON CORES ONLY], 10-20 [uNCOMMON CORES ONLY], and 20+ [RARE CORES ONLY].
 
This isn't hard. DE is just messing with us.

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I honestly have no idea what they're doing. They want to reduce the grind but then they increase it. Simple solution though.

 

Rotation A (Enemy Level 20+) Drop Table:
[REMOVE] - 2000 Credit Cache Reward
[REMOVE] - 2500 Credit Cache Reward
[PUT IN ENEMY LVL 10-20 SURVIVAL MISSIONS] - Uncommon Fusion Core
[REMOVE] One Rare Fusion Core
- Steady Hands
- Stabilizer
- Power Throw
- Rare 5 Pack
 
At least this would increase chances of dropping to 25%. Also, the removed credit rewards, we could just increase the amount of credits you earn from a mission. It should be level 0-10 survival missions [COMMON CORES ONLY], 10-20 [uNCOMMON CORES ONLY], and 20+ [RARE CORES ONLY]. This isn't hard. DE is just messing with us.

 

 

You're also forgetting something. While your idea is sound

 

DE has weighed droptables, while ideally it would be 25%, cores might in reality be 15%.

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Yes, you're exactly correct. You have a 12% chance of getting a pack of gold cores. The difference is back when people used to run T4 survival, there was a 77% chance for the 5 minute mark, 10 minute mark, and the 15 minute mark. Then they had a lower chance at the 20 minute mark. Now we have a 12% chance on ONLY the 5 and 10 minute mark. We don't have to use keys anymore but its still very hard to get these packs of cores which is why something needs to be changed. You are also correct that this makes the grind much harder.

 

I see, I regret not farming these missions prior because Im in dire need of cores. Ive not maxed out a single major mod, not on my char, weapons or sentinel. And Im 200 hours into the game...The more I find out what these patches contain and the vision of the team, the more Im being dissuaded about investing or spending more time in this game. If only they just fix it and add more content, that would be great, because I find the grind is insane. But what Im seeing is the grind being increased all because they are forcing you to play where they want you to play.

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You're also forgetting something. While your idea is sound

 

DE has weighed droptables, while ideally it would be 25%, cores might in reality be 15%.

 

Yes, you're correct, which is why I advise they raise the drop chances so that cores are weighed more/much more common.

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Just finish 5 run

 

2 on uranus - cupid no fusion core all credit on 5 , 10 minute

 

3 on pluto - palus only one pack r5, and alot of freaking power throw and steady hand

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Better would be to add high chance at rotation C to reward people who go higher levels.

 

This is also a very good idea but since Rotation C only appears at minute 20, 40, and 60, they should make it 15 cores (10 seems too little) instead.

So you get to minute 20, you get 15 cores, you get to minute 40, you get 30 cores, etc. If it was 10, it would be kind of a small reward but that's debatable I guess. 

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http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Orokin_Void/Rewards#SurvivalPC

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Survival

 

These aren't just random statistics that we're making up. If you do the research yourself, you should be able to find all this information. Drop tables show all the information already. Using simple math, that's how you find the percentage numbers that we're using.

 

For example:

Rotation A (Enemy Level 20+) Drop Table:
- 2000 Credit Cache Reward
- 2500 Credit Cache Reward
- Uncommon Fusion Core
- Rare Fusion Core
- Steady Hands
- Stabilizer
- Power Throw
- Rare 5 Pack
 
There are 8 items there. 100% divided by 8 = 12.5. That means you have a 12.5% chance of getting each item on there.

 

So you've never heard of a weighted drop table? I mean really ... this game uses weighted drop tables, and you've never noticed before? Some items within the same table have different chances to drop. You can easily see this with many items in game, such as Hikou Prime Pouches in T1C, or the Systems part for many warframes dropped from bosses. Because there are so many examples of drop table weighting in the game, you can't just assume everything in a drop table has the same chance. You have to actually go out and do runs, record your results over many trials, and come back with statistics.

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So you've never heard of a weighted drop table? I mean really ... this game uses weighted drop tables, and you've never noticed before? Some items within the same table have different chances to drop. You can easily see this with many items in game, such as Hikou Prime Pouches in T1C, or the Systems part for many warframes dropped from bosses. Because there are so many examples of drop table weighting in the game, you can't just assume everything in a drop table has the same chance. You have to actually go out and do runs, record your results over many trials, and come back with statistics.

 

I'm using those statistics as a general rule of thumb. 

 

Rarity / Chance

Common / 75.5%

Uncommon / 22.0%

Rare / 2.0%

Legendary / 0.5%

 

What I'm suggesting is the cores be put into the "common" category. I know what a weighted drop table is so don't dismiss what I'm saying if you haven't read all my posts.

 

EDIT: Not to mention that brings up another issue. Why do they encrypt these weighted drop tables when there really isn't a need to? Why not release this information to the public? It's not as if it poses a huge security risk. There's really no way to exploit that type of information.

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EDIT: Not to mention that brings up another issue. Why do they encrypt these weighted drop tables when there really isn't a need to? Why not release this information to the public? It's not as if it poses a huge security risk. There's really no way to exploit that type of information.

 

Because data mining found the DE nurfs drop rates into the ground for certain items causing a ridiculous spike in their rarity. Especially for items that have just come out or become popular/good. People called DE on this behavior, DE said they would fix it. Patch later and more data mining, no change. Another path saying they will fix it, data mining is now much harder to do, items remain disproportionally rare when they first come out or harder to acquire as they become popular.

 

Why would they do this? Maybe because this game is nothing but grinding and RNG. DE feels they can't retain players unless they are forced to grind for long periods of time for the stuff they want.

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Because data mining found the DE nurfs drop rates into the ground for certain items causing a ridiculous spike in their rarity. Especially for items that have just come out or become popular/good. People called DE on this behavior, DE said they would fix it. Patch later and more data mining, no change. Another path saying they will fix it, data mining is now much harder to do, items remain disproportionally rare when they first come out or harder to acquire as they become popular.

 

Why would they do this? Maybe because this game is nothing but grinding and RNG. DE feels they can't retain players unless they are forced to grind for long periods of time for the stuff they want.

 

Completely 100% agree with what you're saying. I guess I kinda understand why they encrypt this information now. What they're saying to the public and what they're actually doing are completely different. Very hypocritical of them in my opinion. Not to mention that they straight-up lied to the community multiple times and didn't bother apologizing or coming up with an excuse to explain themselves. Now that they're encrypted, people can't tell if they're still pulling the same tricks or if they've changed the drop rates now.

 

Also, for those questioning the accuracy of weighted drop tables, a perfect example of checking the rarity of an item to drop is to check the Warframe Ducats exchange rates here: http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Ducats

 

I have no evidence to back this up but I'm assuming:

Items Worth 10 Ducats = Common

Items Worth 20 Ducats = Uncommon

Items Worth 50 Ducats = Rare

 

I would also add that from my own personal experience, this assumption is somewhat accurate (i.e. Loki Prime Helmets rarely drop for me and the ducat price reflects that since its set on 50).

 

Original T4 Survival would have had Rare 5 packs categorized as "common" considering how often they dropped. 

When I mentioned: 

 

For example:

Rotation A (Enemy Level 20+) Drop Table:
- 2000 Credit Cache Reward
- 2500 Credit Cache Reward
- Uncommon Fusion Core
- Rare Fusion Core
- Steady Hands
- Stabilizer
- Power Throw
- Rare 5 Pack
 
There are 8 items there. 100%divided by 8 = 12.5. That means you have a 12.5% chance of getting each item on there.
 
Let's be honest, it isn't hard to see which rewards are rare and which ones aren't. I don't have any concrete evidence to back up my claims here but lets assume I'm correct for the following hypothetical cases. Credit caches, common. Uncommon fusion core, let's say that's uncommon. The rest are considered rare. That still shows that the chances of getting rare pack of fusion cores is very low, which is the whole point of this topic.

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2 survival round on Neptune, 2 pack of fusion core on 5 min on each run......wow, I'm so lucky

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Maybe it's because these are the rarest cores? Second to legendary cores these ones are the most powerful. Now imagine them being freely available with the drop rate from before in the missions they are put on at this moment. You'd be getting them like crazy and it'd be like getting a golden gun in every mission.

 

Honestly, this is just everyone talking from the viewpoint of the ones who got it like crazy beforehand. Give it about 1 or 2 weeks and you'll see why they brought down the drop tables.

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Better would be to add high chance at rotation C to reward people who go higher levels.

At rotation C people get Void Keys usually T4, I don't think putting cores there is brilliant idea, people want T4 keys, especially now that DE effectively *removed* them from syndicates when you consider at what prices you can get one.

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Maybe it's because these are the rarest cores? Second to legendary cores these ones are the most powerful. Now imagine them being freely available with the drop rate from before in the missions they are put on at this moment. You'd be getting them like crazy and it'd be like getting a golden gun in every mission.

 

Honestly, this is just everyone talking from the viewpoint of the ones who got it like crazy beforehand. Give it about 1 or 2 weeks and you'll see why they brought down the drop tables.

 

Well, they did mention they wanted to reduce grind but all they've done is increase it. Whats the point of adding 10 ranks to a mod if you can't max the last two? Why not just have 8 rank mods? Then they toss in primed mods. How could we not be upset?

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Well, they did mention they wanted to reduce grind but all they've done is increase it. Whats the point of adding 10 ranks to a mod if you can't max the last two? Why not just have 8 rank mods? Then they toss in primed mods. How could we not be upset?

I understand that and I do agree, but this is for the sake of balance. You can't have the most powerful "booster" (I use that word because that's how I see them, boosters for mods) be commonly found in basic mission types. 

 

Edit: Also this is my 8000th post, I am now a Dragon.

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Edit: Also this is my 8000th post, I am now a Dragon.

 

Should've saved it for the release of dragon-frame.

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I understand that and I do agree, but this is for the sake of balance. You can't have the most powerful "booster" (I use that word because that's how I see them, boosters for mods) be commonly found in basic mission types.

Edit: Also this is my 8000th post, I am now a Dragon.

I agree to a certain extent that the availability of these cores needed balancing but this is the wrong way to go about it. Before these packs were found not in basic mission types, but in T4 missions which is the highest difficulty you could get. I was against them removing packs from T4 missions but since they did it anyway, we have to settle for regular missions on the starchart. They shouldn't be so easy to get but they also shouldn't be this difficult to get either. The old rates were fine considering how much cores you need to max out mods. Now people have to rely on purchasing Legendary Cores (assuming they're not all already gone) to max out rare/primed mods.

And congratulations, lol. I'm on my 22nd post, still have a lot of work to do.

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Think maybe its best I take a short break form playing this game daily, this r5 core mess annoying. Between this and the radio, I find myself rather stressed out recently when playing this... and that is not a good thing when you are trying to have fun...

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Fun fact: some people actually play Void missions for Prime parts.  And at any rate, it's not just Void missions.  It's ALL missions.

 

Fun Fact: Some people play for a very long time for this game and after long grinding they finally got all prime part and all they left to do is maxing mods. Now DE have released 8 primed Mods which have 10 rank which i certain that they will released more of primed mods ( 1 primed mods = around 528 rare core ) so u can see why lot of veteran people whining about rare core since its already difficult to max 1 primed mod with this nerfed drop rate at t4 survival. u will start whining about rare core too if u already got almost all prime part.

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Adding cores to normal missions was a good thing, but it's a step in solving another problem (star chart rewards are complete and utter crap), however, it does absolutely nothing to alleviate the severe hit we took from the T4S fiasco.  

 

It just baffles me.  The one thing that everyone needs the most, at a time when we need it more than ever, gets its drop % cut in half.  I'm usually the first in line to defend DE's decisions, but right now I've got my pitchfork in hand.

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Adding cores to normal missions was a good thing, but it's a step in solving another problem (star chart rewards are complete and utter crap), however, it does absolutely nothing to alleviate the severe hit we took from the T4S fiasco.  

 

It just baffles me.  The one thing that everyone needs the most, at a time when we need it more than ever, gets its drop % cut in half.  I'm usually the first in line to defend DE's decisions, but right now I've got my pitchfork in hand.

I just hope people keep their pitchforks on hand until changes are made for the better instead of just forgetting about it in a week.

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