Luckyo Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 The one thing to take away from this entire saga is that you should be careful to not offer too much rewards for any single place. Otherwise people get drunk on it and when the inevitable balancing comes, they get severe withdrawal sympthoms and start raging like it's happening now. We've seen this with syndicate rewards being doable in one Draco run and we've now seen it with massively overboard drop chance of rare5x5 packs in T4S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkingmachine Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Time to check out the new droprate for dark sector missions! Maybe they will have a proper chance? Can't be much worse right? Done on Uranus (which is now fixed!), 6x 10 minute runs, 12 A-rewards! ...... That's it, i'm out. "More bull**** please?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk197 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I really hope they revert this change to T4 missions. Honestly, I dont really farm for Cores that much but for people who do farm, it would be nice. I want it back because of the trader. R5 Cores were pretty much a crap reward for someone whose Ducat farming, but it was still better than triple Cells or something. They had value but werent as valuable as a Prime part you could trade for even 10 Ducats (Trust me, Ive had those runs where you get 4 Forma before you get a 10 Ducat drop). Now though, we have Cells dropping, which are even MORE worthless than R5 Cores, which will ultimately just dilute the reward pool making getting enough Ducats to buy out the trader too slow. If Cells were removed from the pool though, then the Ducats wouldnt be worth anything and you could just run one T4 and get enough Ducats to buy out the stuff, which could lead to an inflation on his parts (I really dont want to pay 1k Ducats for like, a Primed Quick Rest or something). Having the Cell drop rate and R5 Core drop rate combined meant you still had to work for the Ducats, you still got a worth while reward if you didnt get a Ducat but the reward pool was just cluttered enough to make the 50 Ducat parts worth while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pungent.snatch Posted February 12, 2015 Author Share Posted February 12, 2015 Time to check out the new droprate for dark sector missions! Maybe they will have a proper chance? Can't be much worse right? Done on Uranus (which is now fixed!), 6x 10 minute runs, 12 A-rewards! ...... That's it, i'm out. "More bull**** please?" Can't thank you enough dunkingmachine for all the help with the data. DERebecca ran one 5 minute run but I think twentyone 10 minute runs might be a more powerful example. Very helpful, I'll be sure to add it to the original post. Updated original post with a specific message to DE staff members that are reading the thread since they don't seem to understand the issues the community is having with these changes. Hopefully, it'll be a little more clear now. Also added data on how many R5s it takes to max out a mod, also added appropriate credit for this information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZxpferTH Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Keep this thread up this time i won't forget easily about this nerf de syndicate i can give up on that since i don't care about them anymore but R5 Core? NO and op edit the title too after 15.14 <-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pungent.snatch Posted February 12, 2015 Author Share Posted February 12, 2015 Keep this thread up this time i won't forget easily about this nerf de syndicate i can give up on that since i don't care about them anymore but R5 Core? NO and op edit the title too after 15.14 <-- Thanks for letting me know. Just made the change. Didn't know I could edit titles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyEnneract Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Everyone will be gone before U16 is released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzkyl Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Everyone will be gone before U16 is released. They'll come back for U16, like the always do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaNSUICI Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Before 30m T4S you can get easy 10-20xR5 Cores + forma + good prime parts + trash prime parts for ducats + good quantity of credits Ironic mode ON : This obviously need a nerf After 30m on survival I only get 5xR5 Cores + S#&$ "rare" common mods (I know, I have bad luck) http://i.imgur.com/He3eE39.jpg 10m with 2x Power Throw Interception far better and both are slow I play this game since CB, over 1000 hours of playtime and mastery rank 18. Tell me, How can upgrade all primed mods? All kubrow mods? All L10 mods? Grind, grind and more grind after 15.13 more and more grind this isn't fun just boring. The only end game we have are upgrade mods and level up mastery rank, I grind a lot to get nova prime and other prime stuff in the last months, please stop the nerf on cores, I hope a real fix not just a placebo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedingbus Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Our initial problems still persist, even with the upcoming changes that will add Rare Fusion Core packs to the proper planetary nodes- that the grind for cores was needlessly increased. To me, I still feel stuck playing the same old Survival game mode (perhaps the most boring mode and a literal waiting game) in order to get any sense of progression. I know one of the recent dev streams have talked about rewards scaling with time to give us a better pay off for time invested, but couldn't you rebalance drop tables after you had something thought out and properly implemented? You're just adding on stairs to this endless staircase that could really use some branching paths and exciting scenery on the way to burn-out's ville. Couldn't you have just added the Rare Fusion Core packs to planetary interception and survival nodes without touching Tower IV Survival's chance at the same exact thing? I understand you don't want players to feel forced into playing only one mission to satisfy their goals, but nerfing something (that honestly wasn't even that great in the first place) to make the alternatives seem not as bad is the wrong way to go. The real issue is players wanting to feel rewarded for their efforts and the recent changes to the drop tables doing nothing but undermining the time invested for a sense progression. A million times this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XKent Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 10x 10minute runs (20 A rewards) on Ceres, Egeria (survival lvl 35-40)... Rewards: 14x Rare Mods (Steady Hands / Power Throw ) = 70% 4x 5xR5 Cores = 20% 2x Credit Caches (2500creds) = 10% Therefore to max rare r10 mod (396 R5 Cores) i must spent about 20x100 = 2000 min (200x 10min runs). Well done DE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pungent.snatch Posted February 12, 2015 Author Share Posted February 12, 2015 Everyone will be gone before U16 is released. They'll come back for U16, like the always do. No one wants to leave which is why we're fighting this nerf. Personally, I haven't spent much time only in the past 2 days on this game because I'm still waiting for something to change. I still like the game though. Before 30m T4S you can get easy 10-20xR5 Cores + forma + good prime parts + trash prime parts for ducats + good quantity of credits Ironic mode ON : This obviously need a nerf After 30m on survival I only get 5xR5 Cores + S#&$ "rare" common mods (I know, I have bad luck) http://i.imgur.com/He3eE39.jpg 10m with 2x Power Throw Interception far better and both are slow I play this game since CB, over 1000 hours of playtime and mastery rank 18. Tell me, How can upgrade all primed mods? All kubrow mods? All L10 mods? Grind, grind and more grind after 15.13 more and more grind this isn't fun just boring. The only end game we have are upgrade mods and level up mastery rank, I grind a lot to get nova prime and other prime stuff in the last months, please stop the nerf on cores, I hope a real fix not just a placebo. It's great that we have veterans stepping up to oppose this nerf. It's just insane for them to increase the grind over and over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZxpferTH Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Our initial problems still persist, even with the upcoming changes that will add Rare Fusion Core packs to the proper planetary nodes- that the grind for cores was needlessly increased. To me, I still feel stuck playing the same old Survival game mode (perhaps the most boring mode and a literal waiting game) in order to get any sense of progression. I know one of the recent dev streams have talked about rewards scaling with time to give us a better pay off for time invested, but couldn't you rebalance drop tables after you had something thought out and properly implemented? You're just adding on stairs to this endless staircase that could really use some branching paths and exciting scenery on the way to burn-out's ville. Couldn't you have just added the Rare Fusion Core packs to planetary interception and survival nodes without touching Tower IV Survival's chance at the same exact thing? I understand you don't want players to feel forced into playing only one mission to satisfy their goals, but nerfing something (that honestly wasn't even that great in the first place) to make the alternatives seem not as bad is the wrong way to go. The real issue is players wanting to feel rewarded for their efforts and the recent changes to the drop tables doing nothing but undermining the time invested for a sense progression. Agree just wanna quote again for 15.14 Challenge and difficult not rewarded in Warframe. Tedious grind and horrible grind are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pungent.snatch Posted February 12, 2015 Author Share Posted February 12, 2015 10x 10minute runs (20 A rewards) on Ceres, Egeria (survival lvl 35-40)... Rewards: 14x Rare Mods (Steady Hands / Power Throw ) = 70% 4x 5xR5 Cores = 20% 2x Credit Caches (2500creds) = 10% Therefore to max rare r10 mod (396 R5 Cores) i must spent about 20x100 = 2000 min (200x 10min runs). Well done DE! This is exactly what I'm talking about. Those that support the nerf likely have not even attempted maxing out a mod or even ran a T4 survival before the nerf. Thanks for the help with the data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisRestall Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Here's another issue beside the tripled grind, the R5s are just on rota A. How is this a problem? Well, it's literally a boring waiting game to 10 mins + tripled grind, how is that NOT a problem? Those two combined even makes me hesitate opening Warframe because imagining that sh*t I'll go through for hours and hours, again and again is JUST -- NOT -- FUN, the game is becoming a CHORE or literally a JOB. How is this even called "reducing the grind" or "year of quality"? T4S was okay ( and some people do find it fun) because people are trying to squeeze out most reward they can get from spending 1 key ever since the key pack removal. We tend to do runs like 1 hour or more with a dedicated setup to prevent failure, setting up a dedicated team is also FUN especially if you're trying to go against the META or typical setups. We are being rewarded through our efforts and this makes us HAPPY and SATISFIED even considering that there's still alot of grind to do due to those primed mods released every 2 weeks. Now you basically removed that satisfying grind and gave as a sh*tty alternative? This is a shoutout to DE, if you guys have no more plans to remove this R5 packs on Lv20+ hard survivals then at least make it feel more challenging and more rewarding. As players said, we don't mind if the mission itself is hard but make us feel rewarded too at the same time. Here, since you guys don't play your game, - Increase the drop rate further, 25% sounds good for you? Well, 75% chance of getting CRAP doesn't sound good for us! - There is literally no point on grinding more than 10mins and this is what makes it boring! Can you please realize this already? At least add R5 packs also on Rota B and C with a slightly higher chance of dropping. - Just one last tip, try playing your game! Go max one primed mod please! just one! And tell me, how "that" grind is your so-called "reducing the grind" or "year of quality"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seburoh Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 PSA: The 5min test run by the dev was shown to be an example and a bit of comedy. It was not the complete extent of their testing, nor do I think we'll ever know the complete extent, since explaining to us how they prod around their database is rather tmi. The post was made to note that they saw the complaint(s), found the root cause, and could implement a complete fix, not to be a diagnostic report of how they test. Not saying DE is perfect, but what is being claimed here in regards to their testing is completely ridiculous and really, really dumb. Not to mention completely against the information presented in the rest of the post noting products of further investigation. I would hazard a guess some of the users in this thread realize this and are just stirring the pot, but if you want DE to listen to you then man up and post like an adult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pungent.snatch Posted February 12, 2015 Author Share Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) Our initial problems still persist, even with the upcoming changes that will add Rare Fusion Core packs to the proper planetary nodes- that the grind for cores was needlessly increased. To me, I still feel stuck playing the same old Survival game mode (perhaps the most boring mode and a literal waiting game) in order to get any sense of progression. I know one of the recent dev streams have talked about rewards scaling with time to give us a better pay off for time invested, but couldn't you rebalance drop tables after you had something thought out and properly implemented? You're just adding on stairs to this endless staircase that could really use some branching paths and exciting scenery on the way to burn-out's ville. Couldn't you have just added the Rare Fusion Core packs to planetary interception and survival nodes without touching Tower IV Survival's chance at the same exact thing? I understand you don't want players to feel forced into playing only one mission to satisfy their goals, but nerfing something (that honestly wasn't even that great in the first place) to make the alternatives seem not as bad is the wrong way to go. The real issue is players wanting to feel rewarded for their efforts and the recent changes to the drop tables doing nothing but undermining the time invested for a sense progression. Here's another issue beside the tripled grind, the R5s are just on rota A. How is this a problem? Well, it's literally a boring waiting game to 10 mins + tripled grind, how is that NOT a problem? Those two combined even makes me hesitate opening Warframe because imagining that sh*t I'll go through for hours and hours, again and again is JUST -- NOT -- FUN, the game is becoming a CHORE or literally a JOB. How is this even called "reducing the grind" or "year of quality"? T4S was okay ( and some people do find it fun) because people are trying to squeeze out most reward they can get from spending 1 key ever since the key pack removal. We tend to do runs like 1 hour or more with a dedicated setup to prevent failure, setting up a dedicated team is also FUN especially if you're trying to go against the META or typical setups. We are being rewarded through our efforts and this makes us HAPPY and SATISFIED even considering that there's still alot of grind to do due to those primed mods released every 2 weeks. Now you basically removed that satisfying grind and gave as a sh*tty alternative? This is a shoutout to DE, if you guys have no more plans to remove this R5 packs on Lv20+ hard survivals then at least make it feel more challenging and more rewarding. As players said, we don't mind if the mission itself is hard but make us feel rewarded too at the same time. Here, since you guys don't play your game, - Increase the drop rate further, 25% sounds good for you? Well, 75% chance of getting CRAP doesn't sound good for us! - There is literally no point on grinding more than 10mins and this is what makes it boring! Can you please realize this already? At least add R5 packs also on Rota B and C with a slightly higher chance of dropping. - Just one last tip, try playing your game! Go max one primed mod please! just one! And tell me, how "that" grind is your so-called "reducing the grind" or "year of quality"? I'll try to add these posts to the main topic. Good constructive criticism and can be very useful. PSA: The 5min test run by the dev was shown to be an example and a bit of comedy. It was not the complete extent of their testing, nor do I think we'll ever know the complete extent, since explaining to us how they prod around their database is rather tmi. The post was made to note that they saw the complaint(s), found the root cause, and could implement a complete fix, not to be a diagnostic report of how they test. Not saying DE is perfect, but what is being claimed here in regards to their testing is completely ridiculous and really, really dumb. Not to mention completely against the information presented in the rest of the post noting products of further investigation. I would hazard a guess some of the users in this thread realize this and are just stirring the pot, but if you want DE to listen to you then man up and post like an adult. I don't think many people have an issue with the 5 minute test run. It's just twenty one test runs are a stronger example. They released a hotfix but it didn't fix the things we wanted because they're still looking at the wrong issue. On another note though, there doesn't seem to be any indication of comedy. If you could pull up DERebecca's original post, and point out the exact sentence(s) that would even remotely "hint" that it was a comedic/witty response, that would be kinda helpful. She did say it was a quick test run and that's all I thought it was. A quick test run. Edited February 12, 2015 by Delirin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZxpferTH Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) PSA: The 5min test run by the dev was shown to be an example and a bit of comedy. It was not the complete extent of their testing, nor do I think we'll ever know the complete extent, since explaining to us how they prod around their database is rather tmi. The post was made to note that they saw the complaint(s), found the root cause, and could implement a complete fix, not to be a diagnostic report of how they test. Not saying DE is perfect, but what is being claimed here in regards to their testing is completely ridiculous and really, really dumb. Not to mention completely against the information presented in the rest of the post noting products of further investigation. I would hazard a guess some of the users in this thread realize this and are just stirring the pot, but if you want DE to listen to you then man up and post like an adult. Just WOW regis 20 minute ago just for this? why? can't complain or bashing with your account huh come on don't be shy forum warrior got something to hide? Edited February 12, 2015 by VioletX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnum2525 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 PSA: The 5min test run by the dev was shown to be an example and a bit of comedy. It was not the complete extent of their testing, nor do I think we'll ever know the complete extent, since explaining to us how they prod around their database is rather tmi. The post was made to note that they saw the complaint(s), found the root cause, and could implement a complete fix, not to be a diagnostic report of how they test. Not saying DE is perfect, but what is being claimed here in regards to their testing is completely ridiculous and really, really dumb. Not to mention completely against the information presented in the rest of the post noting products of further investigation. I would hazard a guess some of the users in this thread realize this and are just stirring the pot, but if you want DE to listen to you then man up and post like an adult. LOL before tell someone post like an adult how about u be a MAN and come post with your real account Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DitsyPixie Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) At the current drop rates T4I is actually better than these hard Survivals or Interceptions, though not a whole lot. Just an FYI to anyone who's looking for a place to get cores. It's not amazing and sometimes I've gotten only prime parts and forma for 12+ rounds but it's one of the best places we got at this time. And to the topic, the rates really should be at least 50% on rotation A in Survival which would mean ~5xr5 cores/10min. A primed mod needs 528 cores, with a rate of 50% you would need 528/5*10 minutes = 1056 minutes => at a rate of 50% it would take on average 17h 36min of nonstop grinding... that's still a lot... so I don't see how it would be unbalanced. "2015 is the year of quality." "We want to reduce the grind." Yeah, right... Edited February 12, 2015 by DitsyPixie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pendragon1951 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 just a quick question I thought when we do get cores they are suppose to be "packs", but I noticed on the picture after 15.14 it showed only one core isn't that incorrect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pungent.snatch Posted February 12, 2015 Author Share Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) just a quick question I thought when we do get cores they are suppose to be "packs", but I noticed on the picture after 15.14 it showed only one core isn't that incorrect? No, thats the way its supposed to be. Single R5 fusion cores are included as a reward as well. More rewards though means you have a smaller chance of getting what you want. Rotation A (Enemy Level 20+) Drop Table: - 2000 Credit Cache Reward - 2500 Credit Cache Reward - [1] Uncommon Fusion Core - [1] Rare Fusion Core - [5] Rare Fusion Cores - [MOD] Steady Hands - [MOD] Stabilizer - [MOD] Power Throw Edited February 12, 2015 by Delirin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZxpferTH Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 btw several node still drop uncommon x3 too ( such as draco ) so even less chance for rare 5 pack .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pendragon1951 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I see ok so a chance to get either one, well that sucks at least on a T4 you were guaranteed a 5 pack when it did come up. No more core farming for i guess Lunskee lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pungent.snatch Posted February 12, 2015 Author Share Posted February 12, 2015 meh, it seems DE won't see the true issue underlying this whole R5C problem. To them it's like "R5C are now out of the void so you don't need a key to farm them, isn't that great?" while to us it's like "it takes at least double or triple the time it used to take to grind enough R5C to max out R10/primed mods." The devs and the player base are looking at this one issue with 2 different perspectives, and since the players actually, you know, play the game more, the devs will never see/experience the grind like we do. If the devs actually took the time to grind the cores for maxing out new primed mods during their release every 2 weeks i'm betting they'd actually even increase the drop rate to T4S' level or make them drop 100% of the time in T4S altogether. That's how time-consuming and grindy it is to max out high-end mods. It would've been fine if players just have to max out R10 cores, but with primed cores releasing every 2 weeks we have grindwalls piling over each other. This thing doesn't only affect long-time players either. New players join warframe every day, players who will inevitably have to farm literally thousands of cores to max out the multitude of R10 mods they'll need to be viable in endgame content. (even more now that raids are coming) With DE's changes to R5C farming they basically put up a gigantic grind wall that new players will have to spend hundreds of hours to surmount before they even reach endgame viability. How are the devs supposed to 'reduce the grind' if they don't 'know the grind?' Before 30m T4S you can get easy 10-20xR5 Cores + forma + good prime parts + trash prime parts for ducats + good quantity of credits Ironic mode ON : This obviously need a nerf After 30m on survival I only get 5xR5 Cores + S#&$ "rare" common mods (I know, I have bad luck) http://i.imgur.com/He3eE39.jpg 10m with 2x Power Throw Interception far better and both are slow I play this game since CB, over 1000 hours of playtime and mastery rank 18. Tell me, How can upgrade all primed mods? All kubrow mods? All L10 mods? Grind, grind and more grind after 15.13 more and more grind this isn't fun just boring. The only end game we have are upgrade mods and level up mastery rank, I grind a lot to get nova prime and other prime stuff in the last months, please stop the nerf on cores, I hope a real fix not just a placebo. Will be adding these two responses to original post and more. btw several node still drop uncommon x3 too ( such as draco ) so even less chance for rare 5 pack .... Yes, I think there are still alot more nodes out there that are still set to Medium Tier Rewards that need to be fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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