R5 Cores Are Still Nerfed After Hotfix 15.14...

[dashashou]

Sooo T4S was too popular . So in de think they just went ahead and decided to burn it . 

 

There almost no point to do a t4s now.  it's currently not worth my time to do it .  

 

it's getting time to take a break from this game and just log in for the trader / event 

[Halser]

Sooo T4S was too popular . So in de think they just went ahead and decided to burn it . 

 

There almost no point to do a t4s now.  it's currently not worth my time to do it .  

 

it's getting time to take a break from this game and just log in for the trader / event 

The T4S change was pretty much a letter from DE saying 'do not bother playing anymore' in my view.

 

I just wonder how much noise people will have to make before DE cares enough to make a change for the better instead of 'pseudo' changes that don't really change anything and are meant to just silence people that don't really know any better. DE loves pulling that out.

[pungent.snatch]

The T4S change was pretty much a letter from DE saying 'do not bother playing anymore' in my view.

 

I just wonder how much noise people will have to make before DE cares enough to make a change for the better instead of 'pseudo' changes that don't really change anything and are meant to just silence people that don't really know any better. DE loves pulling that out.

 

A lot of players are still misinformed about the recent patches. They believe the R5 core problem has already been fixed. So far they have released two fixes (one being Hotfix 15.13.7 and the other being Hotfix 15.14), supposedly having "fixed" the issues but nothing has really changed. I don't know if this (tricking the community) is intentional or not but I hope more people realize this and start to do their own research.

[Llyssa]

The striking thing is, this complaint is mainly driven by primed mods... which are legendary, and thus should be a long-term goal to max... and which also give double the upgrade of the regular(or more!).

 

So, how many cores to max a primed mod? 528... how many to get it to rank 6, which is a total upgrade from the regular? 33.

 

Wait, that's it? Just... well, hold on a minute. Just 33 rare cores? Well, what if we want a SOLID upgrade? Huh? What then? What if we're up to rank 8? That's... 132 cores. Not easy, but not super grindy either...

 

So the only time we need this mythical 528 cores is if we want to *absolutely max* the mod, the mod that should be a rare and special event to max? And to just get great utility out of it, we only need a couple of dozen?

 

That makes... SENSE.

 

As for those upset it's not in t4s anymore?  Y'know, some of us actually want to be able to get ducats, you know, those things you need to acquire these primed mods in the first place? There's nothing worse than heading to the only place to find ducats(the void!) and coming home with armloads of upgrade fodder.

[Llyssa]

A lot of players are still misinformed about the recent patches. They believe the R5 core problem has already been fixed. So far they have released two fixes (one being Hotfix 15.13.7 and the other being Hotfix 15.14), supposedly having "fixed" the issues but nothing has really changed. I don't know if this (tricking the community) is intentional or not but I hope more people realize this and start to do their own research.

They said they were working on this in phases, and that they're on phase one. They have no reason to "trick the community", and your "research" so far hasn't proven in any way that they have.

[zerogear5]

why are credit caches and 1 core drops still in the drop table is beyond me. I can understand credit caches if they were worth 10k or more but single core drops are no longer worth any amount time when doing runs. 

[TotallyLagging]

I think it'll be better if they remove the R5 cores without adding 3x OC. People that run T4S don't need the Cells. 

 

Sure you'll probably get crap prime parts but I'd take 10 ducats over 3x OC any day.

[LisRestall]

-snip-

How many times does vets have to say, "we HAVE almost, if not, EVERYTHING already. Primed Mods is an added feature to increase the longevity of the game especially for vets. Since it was already introduced we have no choice but to walk the path DE has GIVEN us but to the point of burnout due to the MASSIVE amount of time and MASSIVE boring grind needed to max these? No.

Edited February 12, 2015 by LisRestall

[Moasiac]

The striking thing is, this complaint is mainly driven by primed mods... which are legendary, and thus should be a long-term goal to max... and which also give double the upgrade of the regular(or more!).

 

So, how many cores to max a primed mod? 528... how many to get it to rank 6, which is a total upgrade from the regular? 33.

 

Wait, that's it? Just... well, hold on a minute. Just 33 rare cores? Well, what if we want a SOLID upgrade? Huh? What then? What if we're up to rank 8? That's... 132 cores. Not easy, but not super grindy either...

 

So the only time we need this mythical 528 cores is if we want to *absolutely max* the mod, the mod that should be a rare and special event to max? And to just get great utility out of it, we only need a couple of dozen?

 

That makes... SENSE.

 

As for those upset it's not in t4s anymore?  Y'know, some of us actually want to be able to get ducats, you know, those things you need to acquire these primed mods in the first place? There's nothing worse than heading to the only place to find ducats(the void!) and coming home with armloads of upgrade fodder.

Putting aside the fact that even just Rare rank 10 mods took a long time to max before they even decided to implement these Primed mods, I don't see why you're advocating making it any more difficult and GRINDY. It already took a hell of a long time to max a Primed mod before they nerfed x5 Rare Fusion Core packs to half or less of their previous drop rate.

 

Also, to my knowledge, the drop rates for the only two prime parts in Tower IV Survival's Rotation A (which are only worth 10/20 ducats mind you) weren't changed. The main thing that changed is that Orokin Cells were added into Rotation A, making Rare Fusion Cores drop less. Less cores doesn't mean more prime parts, it just means more Orokin Cells (which are hardly even that scarce for even the most casual of players).

Edited February 12, 2015 by Moasiac

[pungent.snatch]

The striking thing is, this complaint is mainly driven by primed mods... which are legendary, and thus should be a long-term goal to max... and which also give double the upgrade of the regular(or more!).

 

So, how many cores to max a primed mod? 528... how many to get it to rank 6, which is a total upgrade from the regular? 33.

 

Wait, that's it? Just... well, hold on a minute. Just 33 rare cores? Well, what if we want a SOLID upgrade? Huh? What then? What if we're up to rank 8? That's... 132 cores. Not easy, but not super grindy either...

 

So the only time we need this mythical 528 cores is if we want to *absolutely max* the mod, the mod that should be a rare and special event to max? And to just get great utility out of it, we only need a couple of dozen?

 

That makes... SENSE.

 

As for those upset it's not in t4s anymore?  Y'know, some of us actually want to be able to get ducats, you know, those things you need to acquire these primed mods in the first place? There's nothing worse than heading to the only place to find ducats(the void!) and coming home with armloads of upgrade fodder.

 

They're not driven by only Legendary mods but all mods. Given that we have multiple ones that are absolutely necessary (i.e. Redirection, Vitality, Hornet Strike, Serration, and the rare mods), it is a bit of a hassle. Then they toss in Legendary mods on top of that. Where would we find the time to farm for these cores at their already reduced drop rate and level all these mods up?

 

They said they were working on this in phases, and that they're on phase one. They have no reason to "trick the community", and your "research" so far hasn't proven in any way that they have.

 

I'm not saying they are "tricking the community" but it is certainly possible. They have plenty of incentive to if their goal is to keep people playing as long as possible (not to mention spending lots of money on their game). I'd like to hope that they aren't but their recent changes haven't really reflected that they aren't deceiving the community. It's not uncommon to see this happen when a company gains moderate success (i.e. Ubisoft, Overkill, Infinity Ward etc.). Not to mention, this isn't exclusively my research. I've given credit to all the people in the community who have helped me and their data might not be 100% accurate but they are surely close. I stand by the data they provided, even if it isn't entirely accurate. Moving on, they have deceived the community before. For example, when the community found out they lied about certain drop rates (discovered through datamining), the multiple times they have stealth-nerfed certain aspects of the game such as Rotation C on I think T4 Survival or Interception, and how they encrypted their drop tables (which really wasn't necessary unless they had something to hide) to stop people from looking at them. We have to base our research off general knowledge now since the exact statistics can no longer be datamined.

 

You must not have read the other community responses because this was already covered before. Please take a look at this post.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/399468-r5-cores-are-still-nerfed-after-hotfix-1514/page-6#entry4417048

Edited February 12, 2015 by Delirin

[Burnthesteak87]

The point you all are missing is... You have not to max every primed mod.

Another point is: the Grind is the only answer for a large community which passes more than 2 hours per day on the game.

You get burnedout frequently? -Start chilling first of all, nobody is cheating you- then start playing less, so eventually they'll start adapting the game for a community which doesn't pass 8 hours per day farming like a robot (just to go after on the forums venting there's no more work left...my life is empty withoutWarframe... I miss the whiplash..).


And.. Let's put an end to this Conspiracy stuff. It's pathetic.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Burnthesteak87

[Speedingbus]

I swear a lot of people don't seem to grasp how bad this rare core nerf was for new and veterans... its just mind boggling. I guess newbies should just struggle to rank up serration, vitality, redirection, ect while vets can struggle with the primed mods so everyone can enjoy the struggle.

 

DE didn't help anyone with T4 Surv by introducing orkion cells it only hurt players why they can't see this is beyond me. 

 

 

 

The point you all are missing is... You have not to max every primed mod.

Another point is: the Grind is the only answer for a large community which passes more than 2 hours per day on the game.

You get burnedout frequently? -Start chilling first of all, nobody is cheating you- then start playing less, so eventually they'll start adapting the game for a community which doesn't pass 8 hours per day farming like a robot (just to go on the forum venting there's no more work left).


And.. Let's put an end to this Conspiracy stuff. It's pathetic.

The point that your missing is what game releases gear and doesn't give you a path of progression to acquire that gear?  The answer is no game just releases gear and be like uhh there's no straight forward path to earn that gear have fun. Also we are clearly the Illuminati.... warframe is the sign we have been waiting for the END.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Speedingbus

[pungent.snatch]

The point you all are missing is... You have not to max every primed mod.

Another point is: the Grind is the only answer for a large community which passes more than 2 hours per day on the game.

You get burnedout frequently? -Start chilling first of all, nobody is cheating you- then start playing less, so eventually they'll start adapting the game for a community which doesn't pass 8 hours per day farming like a robot.

And.. Let's put an end to this Conspiracy stuff. It's pathetic.

 

We know. This issue isn't limited to Legendary (Primed) mods but all mods. Legendary mods do contribute to the entire problem though. There is no conspiracy. I'm not saying there is one but it's not like this isn't uncommon for successful companies. Not to mention, they have tricked the community before and have been caught as well. If my post indicated that, I can change it. It wasn't my intention.

 

This is good though. We're contributing to the conversation and we're seeing why some people support the nerf. We need to see both sides of the argument to find a solution.

 

Please take a look at this post. 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/399468-r5-cores-are-still-nerfed-after-hotfix-1514/page-6#entry4417048

Edited February 12, 2015 by Delirin

[Halser]

The point you all are missing is... You have not to max every primed mod.

Another point is: the Grind is the only answer for a large community which passes more than 2 hours per day on the game.

You get burnedout frequently? -Start chilling first of all, nobody is cheating you- then start playing less, so eventually they'll start adapting the game for a community which doesn't pass 8 hours per day farming like a robot (just to go on the forum venting there's no more work left).

And.. Let's put an end to this Conspiracy stuff. It's pathetic.

It's a game. You don't have to do anything. There's no excuse to introducing a massive grindwall, removing proper methods of getting through it and then justifying it as 'oh, you don't have to do it, so it's fine if we punish people that try to do it!'.

You don't have to leave mercury, so I guess we can make nav coordinates drop in a 0.00001% chance from Vor. You don't have to do it, so it's ok.

You don't have to get any item after the MK-1 stuff, so it's ok for everything to cost 50k plat and have a three year build time. You don't have to do it.

The only thing DE wants us to do is grind for ever decreasing rewards on an ever increasing grindwall and buy plat. Everything else is just pointless.

 

Grind isn't the only answer for a large community that plays a game, grind is the only answer DE knows. There's a multitude of options available to make fusion core grind efficient and rewarding, but DE doesn't want that. This happens in the same week Scott says 'we don't want the game to feel like a massive grind'. Think about it.

 

You seem to take things in the wrong order. DE didn't make a game where the only thing you can do is grind because their player base only knows grind. The player base only knows grind because that's the game DE made. Every update, every hotfix, it's just 'grind more 10o'.

 

 

This is not necessarily just about R5 cores in survival, it's about this awful, RNG based, unrewarding, ever increasing grind as a whole. They said about a year ago that they wanted to decrease grind. One year later, it's just plain worse with primed mods requiring triple degree grind to get(ducats, credits, cores) and with Syndicates being introduced, another layer of grind.

[pungent.snatch]

It's a game. You don't have to do anything. There's no excuse to introducing a massive grindwall, removing proper methods of getting through it and then justifying it as 'oh, you don't have to do it, so it's fine if we punish people that try to do it!'.

You don't have to leave mercury, so I guess we can make nav coordinates drop in a 0.00001% chance from Vor. You don't have to do it, so it's ok.

You don't have to get any item after the MK-1 stuff, so it's ok for everything to cost 50k plat and have a three year build time. You don't have to do it.

The only thing DE wants us to do is grind for ever decreasing rewards on an ever increasing grindwall and buy plat. Everything else is just pointless.

 

Grind isn't the only answer for a large community that plays a game, grind is the only answer DE knows. There's a multitude of options available to make fusion core grind efficient and rewarding, but DE doesn't want that. This happens in the same week Scott says 'we don't want the game to feel like a massive grind'. Think about it.

 

You seem to take things in the wrong order. DE didn't make a game where the only thing you can do is grind because their player base only knows grind. The player base only knows grind because that's the game DE made. Every update, every hotfix, it's just 'grind more 10o'.

 

 

This is not necessarily just about R5 cores in survival, it's about this awful, RNG based, unrewarding, ever increasing grind as a whole. They said about a year ago that they wanted to decrease grind. One year later, it's just plain worse with primed mods requiring triple degree grind to get(ducats, credits, cores) and with Syndicates being introduced, another layer of grind.

 

This. Thanks, you worded it way better than I ever could. Added your post to the original post. It helps explain an argument that hasn't been addressed yet.

[ograzzt]

Furthermore, Dark Sector nodes were omitted from this simply because they already have added bonuses (XP, etc). However, we have added Rare 5 x 5 Cores to these missions and this will also be deployed today.

 

Can you confirm is this the same 25%/50% chance for cores on DS missions? 

Edited February 12, 2015 by ograzzt

[DitsyPixie]

The striking thing is, this complaint is mainly driven by primed mods... which are legendary, and thus should be a long-term goal to max... and which also give double the upgrade of the regular(or more!).

 

The argument that primed mods are "legendary" is BS seeing as some of them are legendarily useless or mods where the base mods simply should have gotten a boost. Considering how many of them are being pushed out and that so many of them are lazy cheap fixes to cover up inconsistencies in the mod system there's nothing "legendary" about them.

 

Also there are lotsa places for ducats fodder, aside form the fact you're totally missing the point with that argument - it's not like you're taking a ton of additional prime parts out of your t4s runs, only a truckload of ocells...

 

 

They said they were working on this in phases, and that they're on phase one. They have no reason to "trick the community", and your "research" so far hasn't proven in any way that they have.

They could start by sitting down and doing at least some elementary school level math before pushing these major changes (let alone some basic stochastics)

 

I agree on the "no reason to trick" tho, it's just DE being incredibly shortsighted yet again...

I mean... just the utter gall to call a single 5min run a sufficient "test" of the rates says everything you need to know.

 

 

Grind isn't the only answer for a large community that plays a game, grind is the only answer DE knows. There's a multitude of options available to make fusion core grind efficient and rewarding, but DE doesn't want that. This happens in the same week Scott says 'we don't want the game to feel like a massive grind'. Think about it.

 

You seem to take things in the wrong order. DE didn't make a game where the only thing you can do is grind because their player base only knows grind. The player base only knows grind because that's the game DE made. Every update, every hotfix, it's just 'grind more 10o'.

 

 

This is not necessarily just about R5 cores in survival, it's about this awful, RNG based, unrewarding, ever increasing grind as a whole. They said about a year ago that they wanted to decrease grind. One year later, it's just plain worse with primed mods requiring triple degree grind to get(ducats, credits, cores) and with Syndicates being introduced, another layer of grind.

 

Take my upvote good sir, also iirc they've been talking about grind being an issue even when the void was first added... but like you pointed out always do a 180 and turn up the grind ;o

Edited February 12, 2015 by DitsyPixie

[archyzzy]

Incoming wall of text + PSA Phase 1.

The news of adding Rare 5 Code Bundles in missions throughout the star chart was first met with optimism, but over this past week the volume of reports that ‘this is bad or broken’ have had us investigating why this could be so very bad.

In a quick test case on Nuovo, we are came pretty good in 5 minutes:

Granted, it’s not identical to the prior method, but there is no Key burned, new scenery and new enemies involved.

Then we investigated the advertised claim that missions with enemies starting at Level 20 or more will reward Rare Cores, and the issue became clear: Some Level 20+ Enemy missions are using Medium Tier Rewards. The theoretical tables players have been producing as well as their experiences is a result of misassigned reward tables.

This is absolutely not working as intended and we will fix it today (which by consequence is extending the time needed to deploy the small Update we have planned).

Digging resulted in revealing that this is how Hard mission Rewards are set up:

Rotation A, Survival, Hard Mission Reward Rotations.

Fusion Core (RareModFuser) x5 =  25%

Rotation B, Interception, Hard Mission Reward Rotations

Fusion Core (RareModFuser) x5  =  50%

Some missions with Enemies starting at Level 20 or more are not hooked up to distribute R5 Cores. Which is to say, the following are using Medium Tier Rewards instead of Hard:

Sedna: Yemaja.

Uranus: Ophelia, Cupid, Stephano.

Europa: Ose, Zagan

Phobos: Flimnap, Opik

& More issues with ambiguous ranges (17-23, etc).

These will be fixed today.

Furthermore, Dark Sector nodes were omitted from this simply because they already have added bonuses (XP, etc). However, we have added Rare 5 x 5 Cores to these missions and this will also be deployed today.

This roughly concludes PSA Phase 1. The issue has been identified, fixes are in progress, and deployment will follow. PSA Phase 2 pending this all being fixed + reparations for everyone's time and frustrations.

If you want add additional opportunity to get 5r cores - great, but don`t need nerf T4Survival!

I have 500+ Orokin Cell. Just remove @(*()$ cell`s from t4s!

[Tulzscha]

General Discussion isn't the place for feedback threads, please read and understand:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/318374-please-read-before-posting-threads-what-is-and-isnt-general-discussion/

 

Moved to the proper section.

[Hotshot0507]

Tried the new changes today...

 

6 runs, 10m each (one had to leave 20s early due to oxygen).... total cores: 10....

 

18% drop rate, spent over an hour grinding some boring maps with nothing to offer but hoping id get lucky and get cores...

 

Also three times my rewards was 2500 credits, is this really considered a good reward or is this another 'bug'...

[Fubukin]

The core thing is a step in the right direction. Good.

[pungent.snatch]

 

General Discussion isn't the place for feedback threads, please read and understand:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/318374-please-read-before-posting-threads-what-is-and-isnt-general-discussion/

 

Moved to the proper section.

 

 

This is not a feedback topic. I read the rules and I understand them. Feedback would constitute a reaction to a change made. This is more of a PSA. Since this does not fit strictly in the definition of what a feedback topic is, it should be categorized as General Discussion. The data was included in as a support for the claims and the original post has been constantly changing/updated each day which is why it may seem like a feedback thread. The reason why it placed in General Discussion is because that category is one of the most popular boards and is bound to gain attention, not only alerting the community but DE as well. Not to mention, there are various community members who helped with this thread and those that visit it each day might not be able to find it. I can't help but feel like this is an attempt to bury the thread. I hope you can understand the damage that moving such a thread can do and would respectfully ask you revert the changes you have made.

 

I have sent you a PM and would prefer if this was moved back into it's proper section.

 

EDIT: I have tried PMing you but apparently you cannot receive messages anymore. I will ask another mod to help.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Delirin

[Speedingbus]

This is not a feedback topic. I read the rules and I understand them. Feedback would constitute a reaction to a change made. This is more of a PSA. The data was included in as a support for the claims and the original post has been constantly changing/updated each day which is why it may seem like a feedback thread. The reason why it placed in General Discussion is because that category is one of the most popular boards and is bound to gain attention, not only alerting the community but DE as well. Not to mention, there various people who helped with this thread and those that visit it each day might not be able to find it. I can't help but feel like this is an attempt to bury the thread. I have sent you a PM and would prefer if this was moved back into it's proper section.

Its DE secret weapon to send threads they don't like to feedback section to die. Its pretty ingenious by the way they made the forum rules so broad any complaints are considered "feedback" even though your just complaining and aren't suggesting any kind of change.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Speedingbus

[pungent.snatch]

Its DE secret weapon to send threads they don't like to feedback section to die. Its pretty ingenious by the way they made the forum rules so broad any complaints are considered "feedback" even though your just complaining and aren't suggesting any kind of change.

 

I expected this would happen sooner or later. Unfortunately, I can't seem to get in contact with any of the moderators to move the thread back. Seems like some of them are not accepting private messages. I'll try to get this moved back. Already messaged three community moderators.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Delirin

[Kinjeto]

It's a game. You don't have to do anything. There's no excuse to introducing a massive grindwall, removing proper methods of getting through it and then justifying it as 'oh, you don't have to do it, so it's fine if we punish people that try to do it!'.

You don't have to leave mercury, so I guess we can make nav coordinates drop in a 0.00001% chance from Vor. You don't have to do it, so it's ok.

You don't have to get any item after the MK-1 stuff, so it's ok for everything to cost 50k plat and have a three year build time. You don't have to do it.

The only thing DE wants us to do is grind for ever decreasing rewards on an ever increasing grindwall and buy plat. Everything else is just pointless.

 

Grind isn't the only answer for a large community that plays a game, grind is the only answer DE knows. There's a multitude of options available to make fusion core grind efficient and rewarding, but DE doesn't want that. This happens in the same week Scott says 'we don't want the game to feel like a massive grind'. Think about it.

 

You seem to take things in the wrong order. DE didn't make a game where the only thing you can do is grind because their player base only knows grind. The player base only knows grind because that's the game DE made. Every update, every hotfix, it's just 'grind more 10o'.

 

 

This is not necessarily just about R5 cores in survival, it's about this awful, RNG based, unrewarding, ever increasing grind as a whole. They said about a year ago that they wanted to decrease grind. One year later, it's just plain worse with primed mods requiring triple degree grind to get(ducats, credits, cores) and with Syndicates being introduced, another layer of grind.

Yeah and a happy player environment is a positive player environment. Casinos don't let their patrons leave with a bad experience. If you're winning they make sure you're having a good time.

Its DE secret weapon to send threads they don't like to feedback section to die. Its pretty ingenious by the way they made the forum rules so broad any complaints are considered "feedback" even though your just complaining and aren't suggesting any kind of change.

I guess we'll have to take that as a "comment" then.