My Opinion On De's Work-In-Progress Raids So Far

[Sarmon]

So, I was getting quite hyped for these raids, and now that I've seen them in action... That hype kinda died. Here's why.

 

First of all: The enemies. I expected some unique enemies that have unique AI compared to general enemies you meet. Enemies that would have more than just fire-at-enemy abilities. What did we get? Level 80 bulletsponges because DE thinks combined power of warframes is enough to take them on.

 

It is true, that more warframes = more killing power, but really? Putting enemies to level 80 does not make them challenging. It just requires more 4-spam and boltor primes.

 

Second of all: The puzzles. I expected something along the lines of Payday 2. If you ever played Payday 2's BIG OIL mission, you know exactly the kind of puzzles I expected. (Maybe that's a bit too much, but I love that puzzle.)  What did we get on the livestream? Stand on the buttons as their symbol glows on a big screen in the room. If one person steps off, everyone standing on the buttons gets zapped to near-death or DEATH. Big oil on payday 2 does not punish the players by damaging everyone for doing the wrong thing.

 

And then you realize that there's scorpions everywhere, a bombard might blast you off, or a shield lancer is gonna smack you in the face. The worse issue is that players are VERY FAR APART from each other, meaning they can't really help out a frame who came to do focused DPS. What does this mean? More Ironskin Rhino and Lokis are needed!

 

On Commmunity Hot Topics 30th January, you can see that not a lot of people voted for best/raid-specific gear to beat the raid, and sadly, the complete opposite happen.

 

Seeing as this is still work-in-progress I will give DE some leeway here, before giving my final opinions and suggestions, to see what they change about this. Right now, I'm not too fond of this. Hopefully there will be more challenge than frustration when these raids do come out.

 

And that's about it on what I find not too good about the raids that DE previewed. Hopefully, someone here will see this the same way I do.

Edited February 20, 2015 by Sarmon

[TheErebus.]

So, I was getting quite hyped for these raids, and now that I've seen them in action... That hype kinda died. Here's why.

 

First of all: The enemies. I expected some unique enemies that have unique AI compared to general enemies you meet. Enemies that would have more than just fire-at-enemy abilities. What did we get? Level 80 bulletsponges because DE thinks combined power of warframes is enough to take them on.

 

Second of all: The puzzles. I expected something along the lines of Payday 2. If you ever played Payday 2's BIG OIL mission, you know exactly the kind of puzzles I expected. (Maybe that's a bit too much, but I love that puzzle.)  What did we get on the livestream? Stand on the buttons as their symbol glows on a big screen in the room. If one person steps off, everyone standing on the buttons gets zapped to near-death or DEATH.

I attribute the enemies to WIP, but I think they'll stay the same in the full release.

 

To be fair, Payday 2 has a very well done stealth system, so missions like big oil can be done easily and the puzzles can be well handled. You also don't need to deal with the amount of enemy units in Payday 2 as you do in WF. I mean yeah the bulldozer is like a bombard, but imagine even more enemies comin' at ya at the same time as that one. In WF, I think simplistic puzzles are the way to go.

[Bazools]

+1

 

(i'm so mad and dissapointed that for the time being i won't say anything else about this subject)

[Lord-Taco-the-Great]

I was actually kind of expecting the raids to be something like a mix of the Shadow Raid and Diamond Heist from Payday 2.

[(PSN)NearlyDedicated]

I thought they were gonna have sentients.

[Sarmon]

I attribute the enemies to WIP, but I think they'll stay the same in the full release.

 

To be fair, Payday 2 has a very well done stealth system, so missions like big oil can be done easily and the puzzles can be well handled. You also don't need to deal with the amount of enemy units in Payday 2 as you do in WF. I mean yeah the bulldozer is like a bombard, but imagine even more enemies comin' at ya at the same time as that one. In WF, I think simplistic puzzles are the way to go.

 

But a bulldozer downing someone or pushing someone aside, won't reset a whole section and damage everyone. That's the issue I have with these puzzles. The whole team should not be punished for A HORDE OF ENEMIES swarming into the room, every 10 seconds. Payday has long breaks between streams of enemies. Warframe does not.

 

Edited February 20, 2015 by Sarmon

[TentownsRaid]

Sadly these raids seem to be as punishing as some of the old World of Warcraft raids and doing those in pubs were terrible without communication or coordination or premades.

[unknow99]

I think that people were expecting a revolution or the definition of endgame & seeing a puzzle(okay) with the usual opposition with more bulletsponge-property wasn't what they thought...

[Gelkor]

+1

 

(i'm so mad and dissapointed that for the time being i won't say anything else about this subject)

 

Well, this and the coming weeks is the time to give DE well thought out feedback on what we want to see in raids, that's why it's WIP. Don't be mad and silent, be communicative.

[TheErebus.]

But a bulldozer downing someone or pushing someone aside, won't reset a whole section and damage everyone. That's the issue I have with these puzzles. The whole team should not be punished for A HORDE OF ENEMIES swarming into the room, every 10 seconds. Payday has long breaks between streams of enemies. Warframe does not.

 

I know I know, and I agree. The puzzle they had shown wasn't handled correctly. All I'm saying is that it isn't that valid to compare Payday 2's puzzles with WFs puzzles as both have different pacing and different forms of challenge.

[Bazools]

Well, this and the coming weeks is the time to give DE well thought out feedback on what we want to see in raids, that's why it's WIP. Don't be mad and silent, be communicative.

I will be communicative and i'll try to give constructive criticism after i cool down and start collecting my thoughts. Yeap we need to intervene now as a community while there is still time to do so, agreed. 

Edited February 20, 2015 by Bazools

[Feallike]

Ummmm What did you expect.... The DE won't make a whole faction for one gamemode that would be stupid. I am still hyped because this is going to be very hard without a good team.

 

Also its a WIP so I am fine with it. I would suggest they add more puzzels and enemies. Also some nightmare debuffs. I really expected their to be nightmare mode debuffs (I scimmed over the dev stream so I might have missed them if they where their)

Edited February 20, 2015 by Feallike

[Blackout751]

What a surprise that this is the case. People begged for raids and here you guys are... I can only hope it'll be different on launch.

Edited February 20, 2015 by Blackout751

[TaylorsContraction]

I think it's way too early to say much about it. There are new enemies there (that were shown in previous dev streams), the stealth grinner units as I understood. Also what I got from the dev stream is there are plans to add more enemy variety over time. This game has so many things going on now, it takes a while to get new stuff out.

[BluelitHalo]

Sadly these raids seem to be as punishing as some of the old World of Warcraft raids and doing those in pubs were terrible without communication or coordination or premades.

A mission that requires actual teamwork, good team composition and wits to beat in Warframe? I'm all for it, then. It would be extremely dissapointing if these Raids were just a cakewalk.

Edited February 20, 2015 by Sonitorum

[Bazools]

 

What i was expecting (What follows is an idea that i came up with in a few minutes, not perfect but way more interesting imo):

 

A new tileset that would lead to two of the most anticipated bosses of the game, We would be dropped in a new bad ! tileset with crazy architecture and we would need to kill our way in to this new massive majestic building/structure in front of us, surviving hordes of enemies... while inside the squad would need to branch out and deactivate security systems (puzzle) while the rest of the squad members out stay and cover their backs against a new type of badass enemies... 

 

There would be one or two more sections set of fighting against enemies and two mini-bosses and one more puzzle till we all reached a portal that would lead to our final bosses that would be in their throne room (two of them actually, that would consist of several stages/transformations like Vay Hek and Lephantis). 

 

The bosses (The Grineer Queens) would in their final form be beaten but not killed, dropping actual rewards like pieces to weapons that would have their damage scalling according to the enemies that we would face at higher levels (that would solve the damage falloff issue in Warframe). 

 

That ^ is what a Warframe Raid should be imo and... i know there are far better ideas in this community that can surpass the one i just came up with in a few minutes so why DE came up with what was previewed is beyond me. 

 

This ^ is not by far a perfect raid but would be way more fun and would still require team coordination.

[KirukaChan]

Not liking the enemy levels in the raids. When they're that high, I know there's going to be backseat drivers attempting to call the shots on what Frames and weapons are "acceptable" and which aren't. That's anti-fun.

[vaugahn]

This ^ is not by far a perfect raid but would be way more fun and would still require team coordination.

 

It's basically the same thing as what they showed but with a unique tileset.

[MartinVole]

Was KIND of hoping for crazy over-the-top raid bosses more than awkward puzzles/compilation missions.

[Davoodoo]

Ill put whole fault at raids state to procedural generation and resource reusage.

 

Its basically 8 man mix of few non endless missions with higher lvl enemies.

 

Steve said its made to be punishing and thats actually true, only challenge ive seen so far is getting group which actually listens and knows what to do at puzzle or if you want to call it that, group which knows basics of teamplay.

 

 

 

Not liking the enemy levels in the raids. When they're that high, I know there's going to be backseat drivers attempting to call the shots on what Frames and weapons are "acceptable" and which aren't. That's anti-fun.

Thats the reason to actually start demanding balance, so your favorite frames would actually become viable.

Edited February 20, 2015 by Davoodoo

[Glitchesarecool]

The stream confirmed exactly what I expected would come along with the raid. Puzzle aside, I'm disappointed that DE's version of "hard" is just going to be bullet sponge enemies.

Edited February 21, 2015 by Glitchesarecool

[Feallike]

What I wanted from raids: A unique Tileset (didn't happen didn't expect it to happen, though it could happen in the future), High level enemies (check), Puzzels (check), A hard mission(check), Teamwork is required(check), A boss at the end of the mission(didn't happen but could still happen), and a implementation of different mission types.

 

 

I really hope the DE makes raids randomly select 5 different mission types to have every mission. So you can get a Survival, defense, Spy 2.0, Capture and then a assassination. Or a escavation, genocide (or elimination), Crossfire, Assassination, and then survival.

 

^ That would be so fun, every mission isn't the same so you have to think of every way the mission could play out. This could work with 8 Tenno allowing you to bring tenno for every type of mission. :D

[LeshJaeThiHah]

1) level 80 are not bullet sponges. (+ if those are grineer you just use 4 CP for the win.)

2) i can't understand all this hype - warframe is a nice game to play on low level, mid level. high level of the warframe is not balanced at all. you either steamroll mobs or mobs steamroll you by a oneshot. and level 80 mobs can very well one-threeshot you.

3) in the warframe when you face highlevel enemies you don't tank and you don't heal.

 

you don't tank because hp, shields and armor are meaningless simply because of damage output of the mobs. even let say 75% damage reduction by link power is useless.

for the same reason you don't heal - because you or your teammates will die anyway. and even if you spamm blessing like there is no tomorrow, you and your teammates will die.

so in order to play against highlevel enemies - you must not take damage. at all. which leaves us with very little choice of what frames to use.

best setup for the raid? x4 Loki x4 Limbo = for the win.

 

Again, somebody told  me - that only 00.01% of the player base actually playing after 1h of T4Survival. And this is why - there is no reason to balance the game or make changes for these 00.01% of the player base. However - we will have a game mode that already making us play on level of T4S past 1h mark. So we could all see how unbalanced warframe is at that level. So unless U16 will come with some changes in damage system - i call this entire 'raid' idea as farce.

 

And i am waiting for capture the cephalon. Because if DE can't deliver pve experience, i really hope they can manage with pvp.

Edited February 21, 2015 by LeshJaeThiHah

[FlyDungas]

At this point you guys should know that new content just means more normal missions with some gimmick thrown in. Bullet sponges aren't going to stop people from throwing money at them so why would they go any other way? This game is driven by quick and easy profit not innovation.. "Freemium Isn't Free"

[noveltyhero]

I have to agree on the puzzle, getting zapped because we let that one noob in shouldn't be a thing.

or the more frustrating situation, random scorpion pulls you off, not much you can do about it other than shoot them before they shoot you (which is already a thing in WF).