Crit, Rof, And Offspec Elements - A Conclusion

[Darzk]

Hey guys. [iNCOMING WALL OF TEXT]

 

Been doing some math in Excel, looking for the ideal setup for an automatic rifle against Grineer.

 

The Three Setups

 

Elemental (Elem)

• +165% Dmg
• +90% Multishot
• +90% Cold
• +90% Elec/Fire
• +90% AP
• +5% Reload

Criticals (Crit) (GrakCrit = this Setup on Grakata)

• +165% damage
• +90% Multishot
• +90% Elec/Fire/AP
• +150% Crit
• +120% Crit Dmg
• +5% Reload

Rate of Fire (RoF)

• +165% Dmg
• +90% Multishot
• +90% Cold
• +90% Elec/Fire/AP
• +60% RoF
• +5% Reload

X/Y is choosing the best of them. /AP is assumed to be 11 points for simplicity (the 2 'hidden' can go to reload or ammo cap).

 

I chose not to include a build based around +Clip or +Reload simply because I reload often in between fights, and have no idea how to incorporate this into sustained DPS. I never have trouble reloading - ducking behind cover to reload has the additional tactical advantage of shield recharge, so I don't mind doing so.

 

 

The Results

 

Edit: OH FFS I somehow was using 90% ap damage in my calculations, not 60%. Actually, only Crit vs Elem for is wrong proportionally, its even better than posted. Lvl 40 burst against Grineer; Crit is slightly better than RoF, actually, and GrakCrit greatly surpasses it.

 

Edit2: Removed the rankings, charts in next post. They are not updated post-AP% mistake yet, need to sleep will fix later.

 

TLDR:

 

Thus we can see the best builds for each, burst DPS wise, is always RoF. The RoF build comes with increased ammo consumption, and proportionally less sustained DPS, however. It will also increase ammo wasted when firing at already dead targets.

 

For the Grakata, crit builds are particularly effective against Grineer, where the offset element (ie not AP) does considerably less damage than the offset for Corp/Infest (AP).

 

For other rifles such as the Braton, a crit build is still better than using cold/fire or cold/elec on Grineer once you pass level 35 or so, as the damage from non AP elements becomes increasingly reduced.

 

The 'normal' elemental build is the most efficient for Corpus and Ancient Infested. Crit builds do poorly against shields, so they are not recommended for Corpus missions. Crit builds work well against everything Infested at low levels, but poorly against high level Chargers, where the missing AP becomes problematic, and the crit build doesnt include +freeze damage, which is incredibly useful for Infested due to the snare. AP becomes highly effective against high level Chargers as it is not reduced by level increases.

 

The TLDR is TL;DR!

Use RoF builds if you dont care about ammo consumption/Ammo wasted/Reloading more often. Otherwise;

Use Critical builds on the Grakata against Grineer. Use Crit builds on anything else against the Grineer if facing lvl 40+.

Use Elemental build against low level Grineer, Corpus and Infested.

Edited May 13, 2013 by Darzk

[Darzk]

Grakata DPS Charts

 

Braton DPS Charts

Edited May 7, 2013 by Darzk

[hypnopotamus]

assume ranks of mods are the number of tick marks +1 (so instead of starting at rank 0 as many places reference it [and me, most times] they start at 1 and unequipped is 0)  these apply to rifles (except the paris that has its own special mod now), as shown by the names of the mods but these formulas should work for all guns as long as the values per rank are changed to be appropriate

damage per shot=(base damage)(1+.15*serration rank)(1+.15*cryo rounds[*3 against shields]+.15*hellfire[*3 against infested]+.1*piercing hit[*3 against armor]+.15*stormbringer)[(crit damage+.2*vital sense)(crit chance(1+.25*serration))+(1-(critchance(1+.25*serration)](1+.15*split chamber){*2 for headshots}

[(crit damage+.2*vital sense)*(crit chance(1+.25*serration)) is your crit chance times crit damage
(1-(critchance(1+.25*serration)) this is your non crit chance times normal damage
(1+.15*cryo rounds[*3 against shields]+.15*hellfire[*3 against infest]+.1*piercing hit[*3 against armor]+.15*stormbringer) is the contribution of any element type
   not positive if ice is triple against shields

   piercing hit doesnt actually do triple damage to armor it does triple effective damage
     armored targets take 1/3 damage (for enemies, not players [last I checked]) and piercing ignores that effect (unlike other damage sources) doing triple effective damage
the rest seems pretty self explanatory

dps within a clip=(firing rate)*(damage per shot)*(1+.1*speed trigger)
this assumes you don't miss, of course

sustained dps=(dps withing a clip)-(reloadtime(1-.5*fast hands)]
damage per second minus seconds spent reloading (and therefore not dealing damage

now all together (assuming I didn't make any mistakes copying and pasting the substitutions):
sustained dps=[(base damage)(1+.15*serration rank)(1+.15*cryo rounds[*3 against shields]+.15*hellfire[*3 against infested]+.1*piercing hit[*3 against armor]+.15*stormbringer)[(crit damage+.2*vital sense)(crit chance(1+.25*serration))+(1-(critchance(1+.25*serration)](1+.15*split chamber){*2 for headshots}]*[[(firing rate)(1+.1*speed trigger)]-[(reloadtime(1-.5*fast hands)]

Edited May 7, 2013 by hypnopotamus

[Darzk]

assume ..

 

Yeah I didn't use any of this because it doesnt tell you anything about level reductions or effective elemental damage. I used the formulas off here:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/34956-weapon-stats-and-enemies-101-unofficial-stats-calculator/

[hypnopotamus]

the arguement against RoF being the best hands down is that it will also increase miss chance in addition to using more ammo per second.  even if all the shots land some weapons will do better without it or at whatever rank the player is comfortable with for head shots not to mention many full auto weapons are best used in controlled bursts, devaluing pure rate of fire.

additionally and in the same vein, reload time being used as a pure dps number this way doesn't really work out in practice since most times players can be intelligent and reload as soon as combat is over and/or will need to take cover for shields to recharge anyways and can reload then.

[hypnopotamus]

Yeah I didn't use any of this because it doesnt tell you anything about level reductions or effective elemental damage.

effective elemental damage is included unless Im wrong about it being triple against the correct enemy type. I havent noticed enemy level changing the damage I deal but I didn't test for that extensively. The only thing Ive noticed changing my damage numbers is shooting at armored enemies, which is included. They seem to gain health, not take less damage and even so it doesnt matter since everything on our end is linearly increasing.

if you meant level reductions like for polarities thats not included in the sustained dps equation. to use mod cost and polarities for max dps you need to use a system of two equations, the second being

max mod capacity=(ammo drum*rank)+(cry rounds*rank)+...

Edited May 7, 2013 by hypnopotamus

[Darzk]

Edit:

 

OH FFS I somehow was using 90% ap damage in my calculations, not 60%.

 

So a lot of this thread is invalid.

 

God dammit.

 

Actually, only Crit vs Elem is wrong proportionally, its even better than posted. Gonna do a quick recalc to see if its better than Elem, otherwise leaving the thread as-is.

 

Edit2: The mistake actually helped, Crit surpasses RoF at level 40 against Grineer (Braton), and Grakata Crit surpasses RoF against Infested Chargers across the board, and is roughly equal to Ancients. I still wouldn't use it for Infested however, as it doesnt include cold damage and the slow is incredibly helpful against Infested.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Darzk

[Darzk]

effective elemental damage is included unless Im wrong about it being triple against the correct enemy type.  I havent noticed enemy level changing the damage I deal but I didn't test for that extensively.  The only thing Ive noticed changing my damage numbers is shooting at armored enemies, which is included.  They seem to gain health, not take less damage and even so it doesnt matter since everything on our end is linearly increasing.

 

You are wrong. All classes of enemies take different amounts of elemental damage, even if they're unarmored. 

 

The third post in this thread goes into most detail:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/34956-weapon-stats-and-enemies-101-unofficial-stats-calculator/

 

TLDR is Elec is better against Corpus, AP against Grineer, Fire against Infested. But AP is sorta good against Corpus and Infested, while Fire/Elec is terrible against Grineer.

[hypnopotamus]

 

Actually, only Crit vs Elem for non-Grineer is wrong proportionally, its even better than posted. Gonna do a quick recalc to see if its better than Elem, otherwise leaving the thread as-is.

Im willing to bet you made the same mistake I did.  point strike is not +crit chance, its multiplicative.  tested before the patch that changed all the crit chances and moves point strike up a whole bunch.

[hypnopotamus]

You are wrong. All classes of enemies take different amounts of elemental damage, even if they're unarmored. 

easy fix if you already know, change whats in the brackets or make it into a system of equations, 1 for each enemy type

if youre trying to calculate the best omnipurpose dps loadout you want to be taking minimum values and not including damage bonuses (possibly making intelligent choices, overriding what may be calculated for things like always taking piercing hit)

[Darzk]

Im willing to bet you made the same mistake I did.  point strike is not +crit chance, its multiplicative.  tested before the patch that changed all the crit chances and moves point strike up a whole bunch.

easy fix if you already know, change whats in the brackets or make it into a system of equations, 1 for each enemy type

if youre trying to calculate the best omnipurpose dps loadout you want to be taking minimum values and not including damage bonuses (possibly making intelligent choices, overriding what may be calculated for things like always taking piercing hit)

 

Nope, no mistake, I've calculated crit as +%age of base modifier or base crit chance.

 

I am using a different equation for each enemy type. I'm not looking for the best omnipurpose DPS, but the best specific DPS for facing each faction, so I'm specifically looking to incorporate damage bonuses, hence the complexity

 

the arguement against RoF being the best hands down is that it will also increase miss chance in addition to using more ammo per second.  even if all the shots land some weapons will do better without it or at whatever rank the player is comfortable with for head shots not to mention many full auto weapons are best used in controlled bursts, devaluing pure rate of fire.

additionally and in the same vein, reload time being used as a pure dps number this way doesn't really work out in practice since most times players can be intelligent and reload as soon as combat is over and/or will need to take cover for shields to recharge anyways and can reload then.

 

RoF *will* increase burst dps as well as sustained (more bullets in the same 0.5 sec trigger squeeze). I've included note that RoF builds will use more ammo for the same dps, will add a quick note that it also increases ammo wasted if you shoot dead targets.

 

Reload time being hard to incorporate lead to the charts being divided into burst and sustained - Burst does not incorporate reload times, sustained does to show proportional DPS against bosses.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Darzk