Tactical Alert - Phoenix Intecept Pls No More Until Changes

[Qynchou]

Sensitive topic in general.

 

Think about it this way: these are level 100+ enemies that 1 hit you and youre able to easily beat them with only 400 conclave. Dont you think something is wrong with the game when no matter how hard the enemies hit, no matter how many there are and no matter what their movements are and how much health they have - you can completely destroy them by using these simple abilities.

 

Problem lies with the fact that enemies can be permanently disabled with ease in an entire map. DEs bandaid for that was nulifiers, instead of fixing the fundamental problems of OP powers (in perspective to enemies that we face) being spammable or being applied permanently.

 

tl;dr Enemies can be level 1000 and it wont make a difference. You can permanently disarm them, slow them to a halt or just completely avoid them with ease to complete the mission. The problem isnt within strategies, its within warframe powers and the frequency of their usage.

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

Moved to General Feedback.

[AngelGuardcc]

Now wait for Raids

 

 

enemies are passive lvl 80+, better not cry then

[perfect-insanity]

This Tactical alert made me realize. that i was not useless to my team. It made me realize that by truly working together to do something. We would accomplish it.

Edited March 1, 2015 by perfect-insanity

[egregiousRac]

Sensitive topic in general.

 

Think about it this way: these are level 100+ enemies that 1 hit you and youre able to easily beat them with only 400 conclave. Dont you think something is wrong with the game when no matter how hard the enemies hit, no matter how many there are and no matter what their movements are and how much health they have - you can completely destroy them by using these simple abilities.

 

Problem lies with the fact that enemies can be permanently disabled with ease in an entire map. DEs bandaid for that was nulifiers, instead of fixing the fundamental problems of OP powers (in perspective to enemies that we face) being spammable or being applied permanently.

 

tl;dr Enemies can be level 1000 and it wont make a difference. You can permanently disarm them, slow them to a halt or just completely avoid them with ease to complete the mission. The problem isnt within strategies, its within warframe powers and the frequency of their usage.

 

In order to feasibly do this, you do need a fair amount of coordination. The only feasible ways of beating it I see are solo as Loki or in a team of at least two working together well. You can use pretty much anyone in that team, but the teamwork is needed.

This is a game that is supposed to promote teamwork. If well-polished teamwork makes any level of enemies manageable, that is fine with me.

 

What isn't fine with me is the massive scaling issues with anything that is damage-focused. Many abilities and all weapons are completely OP in standard missions, but fall off hard at 2x-3x that level. They shouldn't be nearly as powerful as they are, but enemy scaling shouldn't be this wonky either.

[PapaFragolino]

Now wait for Raids

 

 

enemies are passive lvl 80+, better not cry then

 

I'm more worried about the players than the enemies.

[Qynchou]

In order to feasibly do this, you do need a fair amount of coordination. The only feasible ways of beating it I see are solo as Loki or in a team of at least two working together well. You can use pretty much anyone in that team, but the teamwork is needed.

This is a game that is supposed to promote teamwork. If well-polished teamwork makes any level of enemies manageable, that is fine with me.

 

What isn't fine with me is the massive scaling issues with anything that is damage-focused. Many abilities and all weapons are completely OP in standard missions, but fall off hard at 2x-3x that level. They shouldn't be nearly as powerful as they are, but enemy scaling shouldn't be this wonky either.

Agree that teamwork should overcome challenges. I dont agree that teamwork should overcome ANY challenge no matter how ridiculous it is. Honestly, I can design, in theory, an impossible tactical alert that you would still be able to beat due to the nature of spammable OP warframe powers.

You may say this tactical alert is hard and requires teamwork. Well you know what, opening a locked door requires teamwork aswell.

 

Trinity + loki + any nuker and you can beat any content in the game for as long as you want. Make the enemies practically impossible to kill, level 5000, that comp beats it.

 

This is why DE added nulifiers. Enemies that completely stop powers. Why do you think such unit was needed in the first place? Bingo, because warframe powers are too spammy and have too much permanent control over the enemies and in order to pose ANY threat AT ALL for the player, to raise ANY challenge they had to add a unit that stops powers.

Edited March 1, 2015 by Qynchou

[Stefe]

But framesshould be balanced. You want to play RPG game where only 3 classes of 12 are good and others are trash. Or a fighting game with weak and strong characters that are not balanced.

 

The frames ARE kind of balanced. 4 out of the 5 frames you mentioned can excel at end-game content where enemies can kill in 1-4 shots (this event can be included in this category). Before that, they are still effective, but perhaps not as much (due to everything dying so quickly, rendering their abilities uneeded).

 

Loki is a frame with pretty much no damage abilities. He is a manipulator of the battlefield through and through. As such, he's great at endgame stuff and not so much earlier on due to things dying so quickly.

 

Trinity is pretty much in the same category, but able to provide ample support abilities to the team. Again, great for later stuff and not so much before that, since things don't tend to deal enough damage to require healing.

 

Nyx is another frame that excels in crowd control. Again, things die awfully quickly earlier in the game so crowd control isn't valued as much.

 

Valkyr is pretty self explanatory -- invincibility is great for the really tough stuff and for reviving allies in the middle of a firefight. However, the damage drops off hard later in the game and she is BOUND to melee attacks while in Hysteria.

 

And finally, Nova. The ability that is valued here is M Prime, used for its slowing ability. Yes, it is capable of dealing damage but for this particular event, it's negligible due to their abundance of hitpoints.

 

 

Do you see the trend here? Since we cannot overcome sheer brute force with our own, we look to other methods -- namely, crowd control and survival. There is a frame for every situation, but no frame really fits them all. Stop trying to fit the square block into the circular hole; I know you have a brain, OP. Use it.

[Davoodoo]

I'm more worried about the players than the enemies.

Im not, if they believe its what they want to do and ask for it let them have it.

 

If majority decides ill comply, im gonna lock myself within alliance chat and run with my clanmates until i get rewards.

[Davoodoo]

The frames ARE kind of balanced. 4 out of the 5 frames you mentioned can excel at end-game content where enemies can kill in 1-4 shots (this event can be included in this category). Before that, they are still effective, but perhaps not as much (due to everything dying so quickly, rendering their abilities uneeded).

 

Loki is a frame with pretty much no damage abilities. He is a manipulator of the battlefield through and through. As such, he's great at endgame stuff and not so much earlier on due to things dying so quickly.

 

Trinity is pretty much in the same category, but able to provide ample support abilities to the team. Again, great for later stuff and not so much before that, since things don't tend to deal enough damage to require healing.

 

Nyx is another frame that excels in crowd control. Again, things die awfully quickly earlier in the game so crowd control isn't valued as much.

 

Valkyr is pretty self explanatory -- invincibility is great for the really tough stuff and for reviving allies in the middle of a firefight. However, the damage drops off hard later in the game and she is BOUND to melee attacks while in Hysteria.

 

And finally, Nova. The ability that is valued here is M Prime, used for its slowing ability. Yes, it is capable of dealing damage but for this particular event, it's negligible due to their abundance of hitpoints.

 

 

Do you see the trend here? Since we cannot overcome sheer brute force with our own, we look to other methods -- namely, crowd control and survival. There is a frame for every situation, but no frame really fits them all. Stop trying to fit the square block into the circular hole; I know you have a brain, OP. Use it.

Im amazed that you actually justify 1 problem with other.

 

If things die too fast at early for cc to be useful then it doesnt mean that cc is endgame only but design made a mistake at adjusting our dmg which lead to frames becoming unviable.

 

At the same it doesnt really happen until you get some mods, but until then power usage is really limited, steep power curve.

Edited March 1, 2015 by Davoodoo

[Lumin0r]

*Swimming in the OP's tears*

[VoidWraith]

I played Loki Prime... I didn't have Irradiating Disarm so I stuck with a Invisibility Duration mix with Disarm Range hybrid. Had ES aura.

 

Team:

Another Loki Prime with Irradiating Disarm.

Ash with a Bladestorm build, and Smokescreen duration?

Nova Prime with Slow Build.

 

I didn't really have that much problems. I forgot what Auras my teammates were using, but I got through the run with maybe 4-5 deaths at most?

It was a non-English speaking team though, but we generally tried to revive each other when we could. I think a couple of the teammates were packing Shield and Energy restore packs. So yeah.....

 

But I think that was basically it for the set up....

I know I was running with Scindo Prime, and one other teammate as well.

Nova Prime was using a Galantine. I don't know what the last team mate was using.

 

But yeah... there were some deaths. Nova had a Shade with her I think, since she would occasionally go invisible, and there were no Kubrows.

I wouldn't say it's hard, but I wouldn't say it's easy either. Al lot CC-based powers were used. But all in all, I think the mission ran pretty well.

[Stefe]

Im amazed that you actually justify 1 problem with other.

 

If things die too fast at early for cc to be useful then it doesnt mean that cc is endgame only but design made a mistake at adjusting our dmg which lead to frames becoming unviable.

 

Considering that "endgame" in the current Warframe consists of enemies with obscene amounts of hitpoints and damage, CC is required to progress further. We only decide things are unviable because they aren't the right tool for the situation -- in this case, an interception mission with the aforementioned deadly enemies. The problem is that the content that hardcore players really consider "relevant" is endless survival/defense, leading to frame tiering, exclusion and our argument here. I'm not trying to justify anything, but telling it as it is.

 

Unless DE releases anything else that they themselves consider "endgame", this is the rut we're stuck in.

Edited March 1, 2015 by Stefe

[Davoodoo]

Considering that "endgame" in the current Warframe consists of enemies with obscene amounts of hitpoints and damage, CC is required to progress further. We only decide things are unviable because they aren't the right tool for the situation -- in this case, an interception mission with the aforementioned deadly enemies. The problem is that the content that hardcore players really consider "relevant" is endless survival/defense, leading to frame tiering, exclusion and our argument here. I'm not trying to justify anything, but telling it as it is.

 

Unless DE releases anything else that they themselves consider "endgame", this is the rut we're stuck in.

It shouldnt be a tool which we use just at endgame.

 

No arbitraty "lvl60 enemies, finally can use cc" switch.

[Stefe]

It shouldnt be a tool which we use just at endgame.

 

No arbitraty "lvl60 enemies, finally can use cc" switch.

 

I'm not saying that you can't use CC with the earlier stuff. It's just not as valued.

 

 

Loki: "Radial Disarm... HAAAAHH!-"

 

Excalibur: *pew*

 

Loki: "..."

 

Excalibur: "...well then."

[egregiousRac]

Agree that teamwork should overcome challenges. I dont agree that teamwork should overcome ANY challenge no matter how ridiculous it is. Honestly, I can design, in theory, an impossible tactical alert that you would still be able to beat due to the nature of spammable OP warframe powers.

You may say this tactical alert is hard and requires teamwork. Well you know what, opening a locked door requires teamwork aswell.

 

Trinity + loki + any nuker and you can beat any content in the game for as long as you want. Make the enemies practically impossible to kill, level 5000, that comp beats it.

 

This is why DE added nulifiers. Enemies that completely stop powers. Why do you think such unit was needed in the first place? Bingo, because warframe powers are too spammy and have too much permanent control over the enemies and in order to pose ANY threat AT ALL for the player, to raise ANY challenge they had to add a unit that stops powers.

 

There are really two kinds of teamwork in a game like this: Real teamwork and forced teamwork. Real teamwork is missions like this, where you have to think and work together to achieve your goal. Things requiring real teamwork make a good co-op game shine.

Forced teamwork, on the other hand, is things like friendship doors. There isn't any thought or cooperation needed to get past them. They are only there to keep the team together.

 

I do like the addition of nullifiers to reign in the ability spam. They add a fair amount of teamwork to the game because more weapon-heavy players can focus on taking them out while the ability-heavy players do their thing. I hate the units themselves because they also promote bullet-hoses, but that is a different issue.

[Davoodoo]

There are really two kinds of teamwork in a game like this: Real teamwork and forced teamwork. Real teamwork is missions like this, where you have to think and work together to achieve your goal. Things requiring real teamwork make a good co-op game shine.

Forced teamwork, on the other hand, is things like friendship doors. There isn't any thought or cooperation needed to get past them. They are only there to keep the team together.

 

I do like the addition of nullifiers to reign in the ability spam. They add a fair amount of teamwork to the game because more weapon-heavy players can focus on taking them out while the ability-heavy players do their thing. I hate the units themselves because they also promote bullet-hoses, but that is a different issue.

I find both examples to be forced, you dont exactly require that player, if you were given 4 additional abilities that his frame possesed you could do it without him.

 

You dont care about other players because they can increase chance of succes and make your life easier, you simply require them to live in order to spam that single power their frame posseses.

 

They force you to bring more ppl by limiting how much you can bring yourself.

And this forced teamwork shows when loki can simply solo this.

Edited March 1, 2015 by Davoodoo

[IfritKajiTora]

Did it with Hydroid. I have no regrets.

Solo? You are pro. With squad of Nyx, Nova or Loki nach too easy.

[InoxMaximus]

Op is an troll. Dont feed the troll.

[ChloeSakuna]

I think there are a few things to address though with this Alert.

 

1. When coming onto the forums to help each-other take a good look at all of the strategies to come up to beat the super-creep.

 

2. Super-creep this is a major problem and we've been seeing it more and more as players get more powerful developers tac on more health and this is not what makes the game fun. What makes the game fun is the variety of skill mechanics to complete each mission.

 

3. I totally disagree with people who think doing certain strategies makes the game super easy. It still took brains and time and skills to come up with a strategies that created a meta that would make the mission easy and for those people who did it. We salute you problem solvers and those who failed thousands of times to understand how each mechanic works. It's not exploits it is innovation and experience and enjoyment to solve the puzzles which are part of the game mechanics.
 

4. If you don't like how a squad makes this game easy then this isn't the game for you. Warframe forces people into teams. I've failed more missions with teams that are either A. Ill equiped, B. Unskilled at the task, C. Not-attentive. This is the sad truth about the community in my eyes is that it's a virus and it plagues team games with these three sins. Now, I feel like developers expect those who want to excel at a game will even the playing field or will create groups that will only run those things together but in reality casuals bring down elites and elites are not around enough to be constant because they feel like this game is a rotating door.

[TheBrsrkr]

Here's what we did:

Trinity for enery

Vauban for Bastille and the occasional Vortex

Nova For M Prime

Loki with Irradiating Disarm and invis for reviving

The Great Specter Army

 

Seriously, it was diifficult, and it did drag on a little too long, but it was a fun alert. We learned some things, we had some laughs, we murdered a couple thousand Grineer skoom, and we showed the unstoppable might of the great specter army courtesy of me. It was a joke event, really, and I kept that in mind every time I got 1 shotted.

 

Recipe for the Great Specter army:

1) Have 99,000 standing with the Arbiters of Hexis (3rd rank)

2)Have no Bo Prime Handle

3)Spend all that standing on corrupted crewmen

4)Buy like 15 Rollers from Steel Meridan and 10 Shield Ospreys from Cephalon Suda

5)Get a Loki to Switch Teleport you somewhere high on the map

6) Throw. Everything.

7) Wreck the place.

[Borockobama]

Nova, Loki, Trinity and Excalibro.

whats the color scheme on your trin?