Loki Is Just Too Strong

[-InV-igo95862]

Great reading comprehension. You do realize that I got that from the patchnotes right? https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/252764-1390-13901-the-venka/ First line under "Changes:" if you have trouble reading.

Regarding Hysteria and Riftwalk. You don't say? The difference between those 2 abilities and Invis is that they make you completely invulnerable. While with Invis you can still be hit by AOE, stray bullets, grenades, and as shown in your vid melee units. With rift walk and Hysteria you don't take any damage no matter what. Also in Limbo's case he can extend this invulnerability to his teammates and toggle it on and off as he pleases.   

 

You link me this statement after I said "Invisibility =Invulnerability" As I have shown with my video enemies don't use "AoE, grenades, stray bullets" if you are invisible. Running around does not make them damage you.

[RealPandemonium]

I don't disagree with most of what you said. The bits I disagree with are mostly opinion based but I'll go ahead and underline it so it is known that I disagree.

You think it's ok for Grineer armor to increase with level?  Why should one faction's health scale up many times faster than the other factions'?

 

Also, if the Mk1 Braton performs serviceably against level 50 enemies when maxed out and pretty much every other weapon is stronger than it then what's the point of even stronger weapons coming out every month?  Do you think that weapons should be calibrated based on only using five mod slots or something?

[SquirmyBurrito]

You think it's ok for Grineer armor to increase with level?  Why should one faction's health scale up many times faster than the other factions'?

 

Also, if the Mk1 Braton performs serviceably against level 50 enemies when maxed out and pretty much every other weapon is stronger than it then what's the point of even stronger weapons coming out every month?  Do you think that weapons should be calibrated based on only using five mod slots or something?

 

Honestly I believe their armor should scale while their health doesn't. IMO Grineer should have scaling armor, Infested should have scaling health, and Corpus should have scaling shields. All EHP values should still end up being roughly the same between comparable units (you shouldn't be comparing a Bombard to a leaper). 

 

The Mk1 Braton only performs 'servicably' if you're okay with standing around dumping bullets into one enemy. I'd use the phrase 'laughably bad' to describe how it performs.

Edited March 9, 2015 by SquirmyBurrito

[RealPandemonium]

The Mk1 Braton only performs 'servicably' if you're okay with standing around dumping bullets into one enemy. I'd use the phrase 'laughably bad' to describe how it performs.

My Mk1-Braton performs fine against level 40 Corrupted.  Have you maxed yours?  The buffs that came to it in U14 were pretty significant, in case you're thinking of its pre-buff iteration.  

Edited March 9, 2015 by RealPandemonium

[RealPandemonium]

So does Boltor Prime,Synoid Gammacor,Opticor....and all seemingly OP weapons.

Btw, how is disarming not playing the game? Its as much playing the game as a Mesa continuously using Peacemaker until energy runs out,a Vauban setting up Bastille and vortex at chokepoints,a Banshee stunlocking a huge area or the whole map in some cases,a Limbo making it teammates invulnerable.....and it goes on....

Those are all problematic to an extent.  We need to revise them and move away from a paradigm that stopped making sense when corrupted mods became available.  Corrupted mods are overall a good thing but warframe abilities need to be adjusted to accommodate the possibilities created by their availability.

[-InV-igo95862]

 

Yes,you can die when you run out of Riftwalk. But you never die,no matter how many stray bullets or rather enemies shoot you while you are in Riftwalk.

 

About Hysteria running out.....Did you read my previous posts? Do us a favor and try to read or else,don't comment at all.

I already explained the things which are better ib Hysteria than Invisibility.

Also,no......With Valkyr,you have enough time to recast Hysteria even under heavy fire due to Valkyr having highest armor in the game. Yes,even in T4D when you are bombarded with 3 missiles from Corrupted bombards,you will be left with enough health to recast Hysteria,given that you are using Max rank Steel Fiber. And then you can lifesteal to regenerate your health.

 

Those spells have huge downsides. Invisibility does not have such.

 

Rift Walk. Can't damage enemies directly. Banish is only single targeted, makes you waste a lot of mana if you banish enemies one by one. Limbo most of the times is an asset to Press4ToWin or a revive *@##$.

 

Hysteria. Forces you melee. Bad scaling. Costs a lot of mana.

 

And the biggest downside of those spells is a Nullifier. You can't kill him from Rift and he will remove Hysteria if you step in. With Invisibility you can just shoot him until he dies.

 

Also Invisibility will keep your sentinel safe and he will Vacuum stuff around.

[SquirmyBurrito]

My Mk1-Braton performs fine against level 40 Corrupted.  Have you maxed yours?  The buffs that came to it in U14 were pretty significant, in case you're thinking of its pre-buff iteration.  

 

I haven't maxed my newest one (sold mine a while back and purchased it again). But warframe builder tells me all I need to know.

 

Those spells have huge downsides. Invisibility does not have such.

 

Rift Walk. Can't damage enemies directly. Banish is only single targeted, makes you waste a lot of mana if you banish enemies one by one. Limbo most of the times is an asset to Press4ToWin or a revive $#*(@.

 

Hysteria. Forces you melee. Bad scaling. Costs a lot of mana.

 

And the biggest downside of those spells is a Nullifier. You can't kill him from Rift and he will remove Hysteria if you step in. With Invisibility you can just shoot him until he dies.

 

Also Invisibility will keep your sentinel safe and he will Vacuum stuff around.

 

 

Rift Walk can't be damaged, at all. Invisibility can. Banish is single target but is super cheap and sets enemies up for a ground finisher (which does extra damage). If you want to 'banish' a crowd you use his ult, which you can cast remotely and then shoot into with rift walk.

 

Hysteria benefits from the same melee multiplier that normal melee weapons do IIRC, but makes you invulnerable so its easier to take advantage of. Costs peanuts compared to how long it lasts. Mod for duration then efficiency and slot an energy siphon and you'll make more energy than you spent by the time it ends.

 

One enemy that loki has an easier time dispatching. Oh no. Loki 2 stronk.

 

You can banish your Kubrow, going by that I assume you could probably banish your sentinel too if you could manage to aim at it.

Edited March 9, 2015 by SquirmyBurrito

[NN13]

Those spells have huge downsides. Invisibility does not have such.

 

Rift Walk. Can't damage enemies directly. Banish is only single targeted, makes you waste a lot of mana if you banish enemies one by one. Limbo most of the times is an asset to Press4ToWin or a revive $#*(@.

 

Hysteria. Forces you melee. Bad scaling. Costs a lot of mana.

 

And the biggest downside of those spells is a Nullifier. You can't kill him from Rift and he will remove Hysteria if you step in. With Invisibility you can just shoot him until he dies.

 

Also Invisibility will keep your sentinel safe and he will Vacuum stuff around.

Why are you people only talking about downsides of other abilities and only the upsides of Invisibility. If you are comparing,stop being biased.

I do not appreciate that you are doing this.

 

Invisibility-

Pros: Can't be targeted. Stealth Multiplier. Can revive allies.

Cons: Not Invincible. Can take damage due to stray bullets,AoE attacks,prod swings. Can die while reviving allies due to AoE or enemies shooting the revived player.

 

Riftwalk-

Pros: Immortal while active. Regenerates energy at 2/sec. Can revive allies. Will never die while reviving allies.

Cons: Can't target all enemies at once. Can't pick up loots.

 

Hysteria-

Pros: Immortal while active. Can revive allies. Will never die while reviving allies. Has crit shots on melee. Lifesteal to regenerate own health.

Cons: Can't use ranged weapons.

 

"Limbo most of the times is an asset to Press4ToWin or a revive $#*(@."

Dude,you need to play with Limbo properly. In certain cases,Limbo is so damn OP. And Limbo is one of those frames which are NOT PRESS4TOWIN.

 

"Hysteria. Forces you melee. Bad scaling. Costs a lot of mana."

What the hell does the underlined line mean? Its a ulti that takes equal energy(not mana) as other ultis. Also,the maximum time limit is more than double of Invisibility. Invisibility is 30secs at max. Hysteria is 77secs at max.

Do the math.... You need to cast Invisibility 3 times by the time Hysteria ends....

3*50 Energy=150energy w/o efficiency mods.

150energy>100energy of Hysteria.

 

"And the biggest downside of those spells is a Nullifier. You can't kill him from Rift and he will remove Hysteria if you step in. With Invisibility you can just shoot him until he dies."

 

Nullifiers are the biggest downside of any ability(not spell). To kill nullifiers,you always need to shoot. No matter which frame you are using. Also,Nullifiers are just one enemy among 50 other enemies,who were added only recently and might be changed in the near future.

So,Loki is good against Nullifiers....true......But also,Loki is utterly useless against a whole faction,Infested.

All other frames are good against everything except Nullifiers.

So,this means Loki needs a Buff.....Buff Loki nao....

No, seriously,what were you trying to prove with your point?

 

"Also Invisibility will keep your sentinel safe and he will Vacuum stuff around."

So does As'hs Smokescreen....What's your point?

Also,just so you know,enemies don't target you Sentinel as long as you are alive and they can see you. Except Djinn....Djinn's job is to pull aggro.

Edited March 9, 2015 by NN13

[-InV-igo95862]

 

 

Rift Walk can't be damaged, at all. Invisibility can. Banish is single target but is super cheap and sets enemies up for a ground finisher (which does extra damage). If you want to 'banish' a crowd you use his ult, which you can cast remotely and then shoot into with rift walk.

 

Hysteria benefits from the same melee multiplier that normal melee weapons do IIRC, but makes you invulnerable so its easier to take advantage of. Costs peanuts compared to how long it lasts. Mod for duration then efficiency and slot an energy siphon and you'll make more energy than you spent by the time it ends.

 

One enemy that loki has an easier time dispatching. Oh no. Loki 2 stronk.

 

You can banish your Kubrow, going by that I assume you could probably banish your sentinel too if you could manage to aim at it.

 

Rift Walk can be damaged by eximus units like Toxic Ancient. Also then you Banish a target a bullet or two can hit you.

 

Banish is quite expensive if you want to kill 10-20 units. Its base cost is 25 half of Invisibility but to kill 10 enemies you need to spent 250 mana.

 

Cataclysm is a death sentence if you drop it on enemies. They will immediately shred you with bullets. Never do so. It is only useful ti protect defense objective or team mates.

 

Hysteria is much slower at dealing damage as you need to run between the targets. Plus it is impossible to kill flying units due bad aerial attack.

 

Nullifier is the key enemy that renders half of warframes and weapons useless. Dealing with Nullifiers is a key of team composition of any high level Void mission.

 

Kubrows pretty useless anyway. Carrier is what everyone should take. Invis can protect Carrier and it can Vacuum things around.

[SquirmyBurrito]

Rift Walk can be damaged by eximus units like Toxic Ancient. Also then you Banish a target a bullet or two can hit you.

 

Banish is quite expensive if you want to kill 10-20 units. Its base cost is 25 half of Invisibility but to kill 10 enemies you need to spent 250 mana.

 

Cataclysm is a death sentence if you drop it on enemies. They will immediately shred you with bullets. Never do so. It is only useful ti protect defense objective or team mates.

 

Hysteria is much slower at dealing damage as you need to run between the targets. Plus it is impossible to kill flying units due bad aerial attack.

 

Nullifier is the key enemy that renders half of warframes and weapons useless. Dealing with Nullifiers is a key of team composition of any high level Void mission.

 

Kubrows pretty useless anyway. Carrier is what everyone should take. Invis can protect Carrier and it can Vacuum things around.

 

So can Invisibility. I've never had this issue, are you sure it is real?

 

Banish costs peanuts if you have max efficiency AND being in rift walk applies a passive energy regen that stacks with energy siphon leading to ludicrous amounts of energy. I have never actually run out of energy while playing Limbo.

 

Cataclysm can be terminated whenever you want. You can also leave rift walk to if you feel you're talking too much damage but don't want to drop cataclysm.

 

Same would apply to a Loki using a comparable DPS weapon, but again hysteria makes you invulnerable. It isn't impossible, but it is hard. Good thing you can just ignore flying units or rip line them.

 

In a team, dealing with nullifiers can be left to someone that isn't you.

 

Kubrows are actually pretty useful when it comes to utility. If you aren't too lazy to pick up your own loot, a Sahasa>Carrier as the Sahasa will spawn more loot. Huras cloak>Shade's cloak. Raksa shield restore>Sentinel shield restore (and the Raksa has nekros' terrify). Sentinels currently benefit from the side effects of having been around for far longer and therefore having more mods (and having a better damage delivery system). Carrier is what you should take if you're lazy and willing to waste orbs and life support in survival. A Kubrow or Wyrm/Dethcube is what you should take if you're not too lazy to pick up your own loot. Actually, if your sentinel will target a nullifier (haven't tested it) you can probably use them to take out nullifier shields while rift walking or in hysteria.

[RealPandemonium]

I haven't maxed my newest one (sold mine a while back and purchased it again). But warframe builder tells me all I need to know.

Warframe builder doesn't factor in critical headshots and status utility.  Theoryframe is one of the driving forces behind the ridiculous weapon powercreep we've been subject to over the past year.

[SquirmyBurrito]

Warframe builder doesn't factor in critical headshots and status utility.  Theoryframe is one of the driving forces behind the ridiculous weapon powercreep we've been subject to over the past year.

 

No, but I can factor in my aim to compensate for that, and as if I cared about status, I'd bring my tysis.

[Kihana]

His 4 needs a rework. The effect is permanant on all affected enemy. It needs to be channeled or have a duration.

 

Alternatively, the enemy need to be able to *find* a ranged weapon if their AI uses one. It doesn't just disarm. It makes their ranged weapons disintegrate.

[-InV-igo95862]

So can Invisibility. I've never had this issue, are you sure it is real?

 

Banish costs peanuts if you have max efficiency AND being in rift walk applies a passive energy regen that stacks with energy siphon leading to ludicrous amounts of energy. I have never actually run out of energy while playing Limbo.

 

Cataclysm can be terminated whenever you want. You can also leave rift walk to if you feel you're talking too much damage but don't want to drop cataclysm.

 

Same would apply to a Loki using a comparable DPS weapon, but again hysteria makes you invulnerable. It isn't impossible, but it is hard. Good thing you can just ignore flying units or rip line them.

 

In a team, dealing with nullifiers can be left to someone that isn't you.

 

Kubrows are actually pretty useful when it comes to utility. If you aren't too lazy to pick up your own loot, a Sahasa>Carrier as the Sahasa will spawn more loot. Huras cloak>Shade's cloak. Raksa shield restore>Sentinel shield restore (and the Raksa has nekros' terrify). Sentinels currently benefit from the side effects of having been around for far longer and therefore having more mods (and having a better damage delivery system). Carrier is what you should take if you're lazy and willing to waste orbs and life support in survival. A Kubrow or Wyrm/Dethcube is what you should take if you're not too lazy to pick up your own loot. Actually, if your sentinel will target a nullifier (haven't tested it) you can probably use them to take out nullifier shields while rift walking or in hysteria.

 

It often happens when you banish fast firing enemy like Heavy Gunner. Also you can banish in wrong time when enemy is immune to knockdown. Heavy units slam for example. They will immediately start attacking you.

 

If you intensely kill tons of enemies you will run out of mana. And you still will only damage one enemy at a time. With Invis you can get a weapon with punch through or AoE and kill multiple enemies on short period of time.

 

If you drop Cataclysm you will probably die before you can even react. If you cancel Rift Walk you will probably die because of enemies outside Cataclysm.

 

If you can't deal with Nullifiers who will? Oh wait, it is Loki with Invis. He can deal with everything.

 

Sahsaa won't spawn loot in a middle of a fight. Both cloaks are not useful in a fight as they are dispelled by attacking. Raksa shield restore is much weaker Sentinel's as it only restores 150 shield against 100% of shields. Burst shield restore is much better as it will save your life in difficult situation. Vacuum is not about being lazy but saving time for movement and making sure that you don't miss any loot.

 

Why are you people only talking about downsides of other abilities and only the upsides of Invisibility. If you are comparing,stop being biased.

I do not appreciate that you are doing this.

 

Invisibility-

Pros: Can't be targeted. Stealth Multiplier. Can revive allies.

Cons: Not Invincible. Can take damage due to stray bullets,AoE attacks,prod swings. Can die while reviving allies due to AoE or enemies shooting the revived player.

 

Riftwalk-

Pros: Immortal while active. Regenerates energy at 2/sec. Can revive allies. Will never die while reviving allies.

Cons: Can't target all enemies at once. Can't pick up loots.

 

Hysteria-

Pros: Immortal while active. Can revive allies. Will never die while reviving allies. Has crit shots on melee. Lifesteal to regenerate own health.

Cons: Can't use ranged weapons.

 

"Limbo most of the times is an asset to Press4ToWin or a revive $#*(@."

Dude,you need to play with Limbo properly. In certain cases,Limbo is so damn OP. And Limbo is one of those frames which are NOT PRESS4TOWIN.

 

"Hysteria. Forces you melee. Bad scaling. Costs a lot of mana."

What the hell does the underlined line mean? Its a ulti that takes equal energy(not mana) as other ultis. Also,the maximum time limit is more than double of Invisibility. Invisibility is 30secs at max. Hysteria is 77secs at max.

Do the math.... You need to cast Invisibility 3 times by the time Hysteria ends....

3*50 Energy=150energy w/o efficiency mods.

150energy>100energy of Hysteria.

 

"And the biggest downside of those spells is a Nullifier. You can't kill him from Rift and he will remove Hysteria if you step in. With Invisibility you can just shoot him until he dies."

 

Nullifiers are the biggest downside of any ability(not spell). To kill nullifiers,you always need to shoot. No matter which frame you are using. Also,Nullifiers are just one enemy among 50 other enemies,who were added only recently and might be changed in the near future.

So,Loki is good against Nullifiers....true......But also,Loki is utterly useless against a whole faction,Infested.

All other frames are good against everything except Nullifiers.

So,this means Loki needs a Buff.....Buff Loki nao....

No, seriously,what were you trying to prove with your point?

 

"Also Invisibility will keep your sentinel safe and he will Vacuum stuff around."

So does As'hs Smokescreen....What's your point?

Also,just so you know,enemies don't target you Sentinel as long as you are alive and they can see you. Except Djinn....Djinn's job is to pull aggro.

 

It is very rare you will die in Invisibility. If someone is down the only reason for enemies to shoot are sentinels. You can use Radial Disarm or Decoy to distract the enemies. Plus you don't pick Loki as a support to revive people.

 

If your ally is surrounded by Nullifiers, Limbo and Valkyr can't revive him. With Loki you can deal with Nullifiers around.

 

I said "asset" primary use of Limbo is to banish your typical press4towin frame so that they can push it while being invulnerable and regening mana.

 

In the duratoin of Invisibility Loki can do much more then a Valkyr in Hysteria. Ranged weapons will not lose time on movements around.

 

Invisibility allows you to shoot to deal with Nullifiers. Limbo and Valkyr are forced to lose powers.

 

Loki is not useless against Infested. They can't melee you if you use silent weapon and Decoy is great at distracting them. Plus Irradiating Disarm makes Radial Disarm useful against them.

 

With Limbo and Valkyr enemies will use ground slam, rockets, grenades and your sentinel will die shortly. With Invis sentinel is as safe as you are.

[SquirmyBurrito]

It often happens when you banish fast firing enemy like Heavy Gunner. Also you can banish in wrong time when enemy is immune to knockdown. Heavy units slam for example. They will immediately start attacking you.

 

If you intensely kill tons of enemies you will run out of mana. And you still will only damage one enemy at a time. With Invis you can get a weapon with punch through or AoE and kill multiple enemies on short period of time.

 

If you drop Cataclysm you will probably die before you can even react. If you cancel Rift Walk you will probably die because of enemies outside Cataclysm.

 

If you can't deal with Nullifiers who will? Oh wait, it is Loki with Invis. He can deal with everything.

 

Sahsaa won't spawn loot in a middle of a fight. Both cloaks are not useful in a fight as they are dispelled by attacking. Raksa shield restore is much weaker Sentinel's as it only restores 150 shield against 100% of shields. Burst shield restore is much better as it will save your life in difficult situation. Vacuum is not about being lazy but saving time for movement and making sure that you don't miss any loot.

 

It has never happened to me. That's a matter of using your brain. Don't try to banish enemies while their in a CC/recovery animation and you'll be fine. Same goes for their slam. If you're rift walking you have all day to pick your time to banish. Don't rush it.

 

HAHAHAHAHA, run out of energy as Limbo? Lolnope. I can do the same with Cataclysm, except unlike Loki I also get a damage buff.

 

I already addressed how to deal with nullifiers as those other frames. Just shoot the dude.

 

Keep away from enemies and he'll spawn in tons of loot. They aren't dispelled by all forms of attack. If you start firing your synoid gammacor at full capacity, you'll often get cloaked while you're still firing it. Some abilities don't break the cloak either. The Raksa will use its shield restore far more often than the sentinel will, thus making it better. http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Protect. Protect can and will get activated long before your life is even in danger. You can still miss loot with Vacuum if the loot is outside vacuum's range. Stop being lazy and you'll never miss any loot.

[NN13]

Rift Walk can be damaged by eximus units like Toxic Ancient. Also then you Banish a target a bullet or two can hit you.

 

Banish is quite expensive if you want to kill 10-20 units. Its base cost is 25 half of Invisibility but to kill 10 enemies you need to spent 250 mana.

 

Cataclysm is a death sentence if you drop it on enemies. They will immediately shred you with bullets. Never do so. It is only useful ti protect defense objective or team mates.

 

Hysteria is much slower at dealing damage as you need to run between the targets. Plus it is impossible to kill flying units due bad aerial attack.

 

Nullifier is the key enemy that renders half of warframes and weapons useless. Dealing with Nullifiers is a key of team composition of any high level Void mission.

 

Kubrows pretty useless anyway. Carrier is what everyone should take. Invis can protect Carrier and it can Vacuum things around.

Yes,you are right. Riftwalk can be damaged by a handful of Eximus aura. Infact,this needs to be fix. If I,being the master of Rift,can not damage enemies with my AoE weapons on other plane,then enemies should never be able to do so. This makes sense. Not the other way around.

 

Yes,Banish is quite expensive. But we all use efficiency mods. And when you compare it with efficiency mods,you will see that the energy lost from Banishing 10 enemies can be recovered very quickly by using riftwalk and being in the rift.

 

Cataclysm should only be used on enemies for quick-CC scenarios. It procs Impact. Otherwise you are right.

 

If we are comparing DPS of frames....Loki loses big time to Ash,Excal,Saryn,Nova,Nyx...And many other damage-dealers.

Just so you know,comparing weapon DPS when comparing frames is the worst idea one can get. Also,this essentially proves my point,that Loki is nothing without good weapons.

And if you are comparing Valkyr's Hysteria with Loki's stealth bonus.....Both depend on melee.....so,they are almost at par.

 

I talked about Nullifiers in previous post. Won't repeat same thing.

 

Talked about Sentinels in previous post as well.

 

You know what,I am fed-up. No matter how reasonable arguments I offer,you people are so ignorant that you will ignore those and keep on going about your own stupid arguments.

I am done.

Edited March 9, 2015 by NN13

[themartinc123]

Do op play loki? Like in Lv 150+ t4s, loki will get his &#! kicked.( fire wave will kill him) Why do loki need a nerf? He need a buff instead.

[izzatuw]

Do op play loki? Like in Lv 150+ t4s, loki will get his ! kicked.( fire wave will kill him) Why do loki need a nerf? He need a buff instead.

It only takes one prova hit at level 40+ I recall...

[Warlord1400]

The more OP, the better?  Now that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

 

How about an ability that freezes all enemies that come within 100m of you for 5 minutes?  Sounds like fun, right?  

 

 

Yep, with modification. I'd rather have the best abilities in the game than beg on my knees on the Forums for better abilities.

Does that sound like fun?

Plus, your example is ridiculous. Loki, the Warframe this topic is even about, doesn't have such a thing, he can't even go invis for more than 2 minutes. To add on, DE wouldn't allow that.

Edited March 9, 2015 by Warlord1400

[sanj66]

It has never happened to me. That's a matter of using your brain. Don't try to banish enemies while their in a CC/recovery animation and you'll be fine. Same goes for their slam. If you're rift walking you have all day to pick your time to banish. Don't rush it.

 

HAHAHAHAHA, run out of energy as Limbo? Lolnope. I can do the same with Cataclysm, except unlike Loki I also get a damage buff.

 

I already addressed how to deal with nullifiers as those other frames. Just shoot the dude.

 

Keep away from enemies and he'll spawn in tons of loot. They aren't dispelled by all forms of attack. If you start firing your synoid gammacor at full capacity, you'll often get cloaked while you're still firing it. Some abilities don't break the cloak either. The Raksa will use its shield restore far more often than the sentinel will, thus making it better. http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Protect. Protect can and will get activated long before your life is even in danger. You can still miss loot with Vacuum if the loot is outside vacuum's range. Stop being lazy and you'll never miss any loot.

is that the same that can be said of nn13 who wasnt monitoring his invis duration and got shot down twice and then said its a flaw in invis? the 2nd part you dont seem to understand what he meant, he said it can save you better in a situation 300 shields vs a full, if you are running around like a headless chicken vs low tier fodder yes the raksa would be better, it procs more often, but if you are skilled and you get yourself in a pinch a full shield restore maybe and probably would be better to save you, in that 7 seconds of cd on the raksa they could kill you, but it depends on which frame you are using and how much shield capacity you have stacked. loki has it easier vs nullifiers, every other frame presents a clear tangible target, while cloaked loki does not, note they said basic general awareness, plus you got the fastest run speed to run and gun with. every frame has a chance of dying on entering the nullifiers bubble depending on how many mobs are around it , but staying far and gunning the bubble down loki has the easiest time.

[GhostMelody]

To the op, first... that solo requires some skill... or you.. or your friends could solo escalation with Loki?... at least i know i can't

Your arguments points toward his advantages... but you seem to neglect his weaknesses

- Just by reading his stats he is very squishy (low health, low shields,¿armor?) the only things that keeps him alive are his powers.

- He is very dependant on energy, one smash from magnetic proc and he is pretty much screwed.

- None of his powers dispatch enemies whatsoever.

- Requires late game mods to be usable in high skirmishes. (not newbie friendly).

- Very limited usage in infested maps. (Radial disarm is useless here without augment, invis is negated by area of effect attacks, typical decoy tactics are useless here, switch teleport is not viable except to escape and you could still be surrounded)

And that is great, all that (advantages and disadvantages including he not requiring strength mods are part of his uniqueness) yeah stay all the invisible you want until you are hit by a stray bullet...or area of effect attacks.

Loki had almost no changes in two years you know why?... because he is balanced in comparison to early game rhino, valkyr invulnerability (not invis... here you do not take damage unless you are afk) or full cure duration trinity.

It's funny... that same Loki you say is "too stronk" (hate that term) was demmed as under powered around 2 years ago...people said radial disarm doesn't kill anything...

And please Loki press 4 to win?... ok go to any open map in the solar system... get enemies around you and cast full range irradial disarm, then don't do anything... go to the bathroom, take a glass of water or whatever you like, come back and see if you are not dead or being hit by the same enemies affected by your ID .

...then do the same with full strengh excalibur. Then tell me who requires Homer's drinking bird...

on this note; I love how OP is complaining about loki but not valkyr, you know, the frame with literally non stop invincibility

Loki has no flaw because he is fairly balanced compared to almost 80% of the frames

If any frame needs a nerf at this point it's that god-forsaken cat lady valkyr

Love how DE didn't hesitate to change diamond skin into iron skin removing invincibility from rhino, and invincibility from bless, but somehow managed to keep invincibility on a frame that kinda doesn't need it for survivability pretty sure 1500 armor is more than enough.

Please find something better to complain about...

[SquirmyBurrito]

is that the same that can be said of nn13 who wasnt monitoring his invis duration and got shot down twice and then said its a flaw in invis? the 2nd part you dont seem to understand what he meant, he said it can save you better in a situation 300 shields vs a full, if you are running around like a headless chicken vs low tier fodder yes the raksa would be better, it procs more often, but if you are skilled and you get yourself in a pinch a full shield restore maybe and probably would be better to save you, in that 7 seconds of cd on the raksa they could kill you, but it depends on which frame you are using and how much shield capacity you have stacked. loki has it easier vs nullifiers, every other frame presents a clear tangible target, while cloaked loki does not, note they said basic general awareness, plus you got the fastest run speed to run and gun with. every frame has a chance of dying on entering the nullifiers bubble depending on how many mobs are around it , but staying far and gunning the bubble down loki has the easiest time.

 

Those are completely different kinds of activities.

 

It can save you because it only tends to proc when you run out. The Raksa will spam its protect skill which ends up providing you with far more than just 300 shields in the end. It is just a matter of a different delivery system. One lump sum when you need it, or tons of mini-heals when you only sorta need it. If you're skilled and you get yourself in a pinch, the Raksa would have already proc'd and restored some of your shield long before you were at the point where the sentinel would think to help. And once the sentinel procs, it isn't going to be procing again anytime soon. If the cooldown on Protect is really just 7 seconds you just shot your argument in the foot. 7 seconds means (ignoring cast time as I'm not about to thaw out a Raksa, wait several hours, and then time it) roughly 4 casts of Protect. Four casts of 300 comes out to 1200 shields. A Mag with maxed redirection and vigor on will only have 1290 shields. So that's a difference of only 90 shields. On the average frame, the Raksa's 4 300 shield restores will come out to more than the Sentinels <1290 shield restore.

 

Ash also has invisibility, not idea why you guys are ignoring him. Yes, loki has it easier against nullifiers, but as NN13 said, that's one (two if you count corrupted) enemies out of the numerous other enemies in this game. Fastest sprint speed means nothing, and he's actually tied with Vanguard Rhino Prime. Nova is only slightly slower than him. No, Volt has an easier time than Loki. Ash has just as easy a time as Loki.

[-InV-igo95862]

Those are completely different kinds of activities.

 

It can save you because it only tends to proc when you run out. The Raksa will spam its protect skill which ends up providing you with far more than just 300 shields in the end. It is just a matter of a different delivery system. One lump sum when you need it, or tons of mini-heals when you only sorta need it. If you're skilled and you get yourself in a pinch, the Raksa would have already proc'd and restored some of your shield long before you were at the point where the sentinel would think to help. And once the sentinel procs, it isn't going to be procing again anytime soon. If the cooldown on Protect is really just 7 seconds you just shot your argument in the foot. 7 seconds means (ignoring cast time as I'm not about to thaw out a Raksa, wait several hours, and then time it) roughly 4 casts of Protect. Four casts of 300 comes out to 1200 shields. A Mag with maxed redirection and vigor on will only have 1290 shields. So that's a difference of only 90 shields. On the average frame, the Raksa's 4 300 shield restores will come out to more than the Sentinels <1290 shield restore.

 

Ash also has invisibility, not idea why you guys are ignoring him. Yes, loki has it easier against nullifiers, but as NN13 said, that's one (two if you count corrupted) enemies out of the numerous other enemies in this game. Fastest sprint speed means nothing, and he's actually tied with Vanguard Rhino Prime. Nova is only slightly slower than him. No, Volt has an easier time than Loki. Ash has just as easy a time as Loki.

 

Raksa only restores 150 shields. At least it currently does. Maybe it is bugged. Plus it will restore 150 and waste cooldown even if you lost a bit.

 

Ash's invisibility lasts shorter plus you don't use as you are invulnerable in Blade Storm.

 

 

Cataclysm should only be used on enemies for quick-CC scenarios. It procs Impact. Otherwise you are right.

 

Cataclysm has no CC. Here is quick HTML5 video:

http://gfycat.com/BothOpulentCrab

Limbo is extremely vulnerable when using Cataclysm.

 

Plus "Loki is bad against Infested" is a myth.

 

If you out a decoy like this:

http://i.imgur.com/yfA8Wbt.jpg

You are basically have a shooting gallery from Infested.

Also you can Radial Disarm Infested Moas and Ospreys so that they don't use their attacks.

[SquirmyBurrito]

Raksa only restores 150 shields. At least it currently does. Maybe it is bugged. Plus it will restore 150 and waste cooldown even if you lost a bit.

 

Ash's invisibility lasts shorter plus you don't use as you are invulnerable in Blade Storm.

 

 

Cataclysm has no CC. Here is quick HTML5 video:

http://gfycat.com/BothOpulentCrab

Limbo is extremely vulnerable when using Cataclysm.

 

Plus "Loki is bad against Infested" is a myth.

 

If you out a decoy like this:

http://i.imgur.com/yfA8Wbt.jpg

You are basically have a shooting gallery from Infested.

Also you can Radial Disarm Infested Moas and Ospreys so that they don't use their attacks.

 

Check the wiki, it says 300.

 

Its duration is slightly shorter, but it also has an aoe stagger. Not everyone builds Ash around blade storm.

 

Infested were changed a while back to compensate for fancy decoy placement. If they can't reach it after a certain amount of time they will switch to another source of aggro, meaning you. Ancients can drag you off your perch and ranged infested can hit you unless you disarm them. Loki is near the bottom of the list of frames to take against infested.

[osheroth]

While I deffinetly think he's one of the most unbalanced frames in terms of what he can do (which is basically anything), it doesn't end with him. Solo-ing stuff is limited to 4 frames at most, "usefulness" is only slightly bigger with a number of 8 frames that people ALWAYS go for when setting up squads.

I can only hope the difficulty setting hinted by the Devs will solve this problem.