Arcane Helmets – Reintroduction Into The Game.

[WaRDeMoN787]

Yes, another one of these topics....

So, I really liked the original idea DE had by adding stats to the helmets of our warframes, I also understand where they're coming from and why they had turned them cosmetic. Before I knew the difference between an arcane and non-arcane helmet, I was wearing each helmet believing they had stats bonded to them. In some sense I felt restricted, and even disliked the idea of wearing some helmets, just because of their appearance, but I did it thinking it benefited my warframe and game play. Sometime down the line, I had actually figured out that I only had a handful of arcane helmets and completely felt silly I was wearing each helmet according to the arcane stats, even though most of the time the helmets I was wearing weren't arcane. I also had warmed up to a lot of the helmets I originally disliked and favor them cosmetically now.

However, I really do understand how it feels to be on both sides. Wanting the extra stats on your warframe but also wanting to cosmetically style your warframe. But why can't we have both? Currently it's still possible to buy/trade for arcane helmets between users but stock is very limited. Why not reintroduce them into the game, while also keeping the cosmetic variant in circulation via alert?

What I propose:

1) Treat the Arcane helmets as a corrupted mod, have them drop in the derelict as corrupted reward.

2) Make them super rare, have the drop rate at 1%. Make them something elusive. Something for us to look forward to hunting. If we want these, they should be something we have to work hard for!

3) Keep the cosmetic versions in circulation via alert.

Why?

1) There's something new to farm for in the orokin derelict vaults

2) To make it rewarding. But, for the people who paid a lot of platinum for it, this insures they can still maintain a good heavy price in the market. A win/win, right?

3) Why change anything up? This will insure people will still have their cosmetic variants.

This would give a great opportunity to the player base to once again earn the Arcane helmets has a prize. Would it be truly hard to reintroduce it into the game? You'd be giving us more incentive to run into the derelict while also giving us something more to grind on. For the players who fancy the capitalist life, they can benefit from selling these rare helmets to make more of a profit (Oh you corpus, you). But most importantly, DE would have full enjoyment that RNGesus gets another laugh at the tenno, as we grind all day hoping to get that one helmet that would give us a bit more of an edge in late game.

Other thoughts:

1) If the helmets are brought back, why not give them a glowing aura that matches the color of the warframe energy.

2) If not an aura, then perhaps have the arcane helmet with cracks (indicating it's corrupt/broken) with the warframe color flowing through the crack).

3) Give newer helmets arcane versions.

I'm truly hoping to avoid the one worded posts of "no". I know a lot of you feel differently about bringing back the arcane helmets. However, I am interested in everyone’s feedback. If you agree, what do you think about my proposal? Would you alter anything? If you disagree, why?

Thanks for reading everyone!

-WD

Edited March 10, 2015 by WaRDeMoN787

[Sifu]

I honestly think that helmets should get stats back. I dont like this arcane thing at all... 

 

The question is - how the community will react on it, DE stated that cosmetics shouldnt have stats, but they just cant change the old helmets and a few weapon skins. 

 

The real fix for this might be adding some functions to default helmet, so alternative ones will have different bonuses and support different roles for frames.

[Hallowieners]

They already have plans of allowing players to embed stats to cosmetic items. It was mentioned at PAX. 

[NinjaSnipe11]

I honestly think that helmets should get stats back. I dont like this arcane thing at all... 

 

The question is - how the community will react on it, DE stated that cosmetics shouldnt have stats, but they just cant change the old helmets and a few weapon skins. 

 

The real fix for this might be adding some functions to default helmet, so alternative ones will have different bonuses and support different roles for frames.

The problem with giving default helmets stats is you'd always have a disadvantage of some kind no matter what helmet you switched to. The way the regular stat helmets balance out against the default one with no stats is the disadvantage they give.

[(PSN)Hollow118]

"No"

All jokes aside, I believe these Arcane enhancements coming from raids have proc requirements (I.e get 10 headshots and get 10 secs of health regeneration) I don't think these new arcanes are stat based.

I'm kinda yes and No on this, but I'm curious as to how the Arcane helms can be further implemented back into the game.

Edited March 10, 2015 by (PS4)Hollow118

[The_Real_007]

I kinda wish that the helmets all got their stats back, but I also wish that the enhancements they are making from raids were auras that could go to primary and secondary weapons. (Firearms 2.0?)

[izzatuw]

I honestly think that helmets should get stats back. I dont like this arcane thing at all... 

 

The question is - how the community will react on it, DE stated that cosmetics shouldnt have stats, but they just cant change the old helmets and a few weapon skins. 

 

The real fix for this might be adding some functions to default helmet, so alternative ones will have different bonuses and support different roles for frames.

I don't see the issue. Stat helms are still here, anyone can get them from trade. Just make arcane helms and statless helms in different categories in the market. We could also make them rare drops for perfect spy missions.

[Karlox]

In one hand I think they're some kind of hypocrites. So arcane helmets aren't offered anymore because the stats limited you to use only one or another to have a minimal buff but faction sigils have those % bonus that makes you only use the last one because reasons. All or nothing.

[BlueAnchorite]

I think a fix to this should be the stat burn-in they are using for cosmetics should have all of the arcane helmet stats brought into the pool and given from a separate source of the raids. This allows us to use the stat bonus we prefer without having to use a specific helmet.

[Davoodoo]

Dont ever make the same mistake again and dont match specific stat boosts with specific cosmetic items. 

Also that was community original idea to resolve this problem, split stat boost and cosmetic helmets so you could keep both, not to make them limited supply trading commodity.

 

Im kinda ok with de new arcane cosmetics idea, though i feel they will still be inferior to old arcanes, yes chorus and vespa, im looking at you and putting it on cosmetics which are obtainable only through considerable grind or limited time offers(some with again considerabe grind involved) are my biggest concerns.

Edited March 10, 2015 by Davoodoo

[WaRDeMoN787]

I honestly think that helmets should get stats back. I dont like this arcane thing at all... 

 

The question is - how the community will react on it, DE stated that cosmetics shouldnt have stats, but they just cant change the old helmets and a few weapon skins. 

 

The real fix for this might be adding some functions to default helmet, so alternative ones will have different bonuses and support different roles for frames.

So, you'd want to get rid of cosmetics and make the alternative helmets purely stat based?

 

They already have plans of allowing players to embed stats to cosmetic items. It was mentioned at PAX. 

Interesting, I started the first few minutes but some things came up and I wasn't able to watch most of it. I'm slacking!

 

The problem with giving default helmets stats is you'd always have a disadvantage of some kind no matter what helmet you switched to. The way the regular stat helmets balance out against the default one with no stats is the disadvantage they give.

Yes, but the negative stats could always be balanced. Just like using corrupted mods!

 

"No"

All jokes aside, I believe these Arcane enhancements coming from raids have proc requirements (I.e get 10 headshots and get 10 secs of health regeneration) I don't think these new arcanes are stat based.

I'm kinda yes and No on this, but I'm curious as to how the Arcane helms can be further implemented back into the game.

I'm not sure how I feel about this. The original arcane set up sounds better. I wonder how it'll affect the current arcane helmets.

 

Dont ever make the same mistake again and dont match specific stat boosts with specific cosmetic items.

I don't know where you think I made a mistake, I just wanted to input some feedback for DE and see how the community felt about the arcane helmets. I clearly acknowledged there was a difference; unless you meant something else, then perhaps you could give me a better explanation. =/

Edited March 10, 2015 by WaRDeMoN787

[Kasarian]

In one hand I think they're some kind of hypocrites. So arcane helmets aren't offered anymore because the stats limited you to use only one or another to have a minimal buff but faction sigils have those % bonus that makes you only use the last one because reasons. All or nothing.

 

The % is only for the Rep Points you get, besides that they are pointless so you can use any you want, even even if you get 10k rep on one mission, whether you get 1.5k more (+15%) or 300-700 (+3-7% for example) does not make as huge difference to rant about it.

 

With old Cosmetics the problem was that not only you tied Specific Stat boost with one Helmet Forcing people to wear it if they wanted to max their specific build (even though they hated how it looked) but also it seemed like a PayToWin advantage, hence they were removed from the market.

[Davoodoo]

I don't know where you think I made a mistake, I just wanted to input some feedback for DE and see how the community felt about the arcane helmets. I clearly acknowledged there was a difference; unless you meant something else, then perhaps you could give me a better explanation. =/

Devs not you.

[Karlox]

The % is only for the Rep Points you get, besides that they are pointless so you can use any you want, even even if you get 10k rep on one mission, whether you get 1.5k more (+15%) or 300-700 (+3-7% for example) does not make as huge difference to rant about it.

 

With old Cosmetics the problem was that not only you tied Specific Stat boost with one Helmet Forcing people to wear it if they wanted to max their specific build (even though they hated how it looked) but also it seemed like a PayToWin advantage, hence they were removed from the market.

 

The same solution that you propose can be applied to helmets as well, you know it, right?. Is not mandatory to have some helmets to get a perfect build. You must be a real useless one-handed blind player if you need +15% energy eff from a helmet to change your streamline with other mod and feel like you rock over 9000 now. As if with the change you would be 200% more useful than the streamline user.

 

EDIT: Pay to win... here? Please, I really invite you to play any mmorpg such as Metin2 for example. You will really start to drop tears of friggin blood and will understand the true meaning of a pay to win esque.

Edited March 10, 2015 by Karlox

[Richtor2415]

They already have plans of allowing players to embed stats to cosmetic items. It was mentioned at PAX. 

Yes, but not in the way WD is saying. And, it's PROC based enchantments, not stuff like '20% extra speed, -5% power strength'.

 

 

Personally, I agree with bringing back Arcanes, mostly because I joined shortly AFTER they got rid of Arcane alerts.

Just my thought on this. 

Edited March 10, 2015 by Richtor2415

[Kasarian]

EDIT: Pay to win... here? Please, I really invite you to play any mmorpg such as Metin2 for example. You will really start to drop tears of friggin blood and will understand the true meaning of a pay to win esque.

 

No thanks, I got recently a payload of "This is Bull$h!t" from playing Ghost Recon Phantoms.

 

And no, Helmets are not just Energy Efficiency. It's more Speed (Rhino Vanguard - 25%, that's almost maxed out Rush mod), Strength, Duration, Range, with little to no actual drawback.

 

Also no, to get that perfect build you need Arcane Helmets, otherwise it's not perfect. Also if those 15% you mentioned weren't all that great I wouldn't have bought Primed Continuity and get it to r9 because its just 20% more than normal Continuity.

 

Also by going by your example of 15% Energy Efficiency on a Arcane Helmet. Instead of putting a mod that will take away a mod space, I take an Arcane with those "useless" 15%, and then I can free one slot and put any other mod in it that will further enhance the build in some way.

[Davoodoo]

EDIT: Pay to win... here? Please, I really invite you to play any mmorpg such as Metin2 for example. You will really start to drop tears of friggin blood and will understand the true meaning of a pay to win esque.

Better doesnt mean good. Something having worse pay2win doesnt mean that warframe cant be pay2win.

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

I'd rather they give them an extra mod slot for specialized cards like Enemy Radar and Loot Dector, perhaps offer differing hud views, or a Helios Vision option effect. The side effect would be the more player join your game the less effect or range happens. That way it's a solo player's best friend, while minimizing the advantage on other players... Why? No Idea...

I don't know why players always want to punish other players, but there you go.

[Adder9]

Ehhhhh, I kinda like the idea of the helmets having different stats, but I know I'll wear my favorite regardless of what it does. Choice isn't artificial if the helmets all have +/- stats; then the base helmet is just an as is variant.

[WaRDeMoN787]

The % is only for the Rep Points you get, besides that they are pointless so you can use any you want, even even if you get 10k rep on one mission, whether you get 1.5k more (+15%) or 300-700 (+3-7% for example) does not make as huge difference to rant about it.

 

With old Cosmetics the problem was that not only you tied Specific Stat boost with one Helmet Forcing people to wear it if they wanted to max their specific build (even though they hated how it looked) but also it seemed like a PayToWin advantage, hence they were removed from the market.

Pay to win? Weren't the arcane on alert before they made a cosmetic version? Going even further, couldn't you say there's already a pay to win advantage established? For example, player with platinum can purchase Forma, Potato’s, and even boosters. So, isn't that kind of an irrelevant argument? o.o

 

Devs not you.

Oh okay, sorry about that confusion! Now I fully understand, I'll reply to the rest of your post!

 

Also that was community original idea to resolve this problem, split stat boost and cosmetic helmets so you could keep both, not to make them limited supply trading commodity.

 

Im kinda ok with de new arcane cosmetics idea, though i feel they will still be inferior to old arcanes, yes chorus and vespa, im looking at you and putting it on cosmetics which are obtainable only through considerable grind or limited time offers(some with again considerabe grind involved) are my biggest concerns.

I hadn't realized the community had made the idea. For the most part, I always though each helmet had a specific attribute on it.

 

I hope the new arcane ideas won't erase our current helmets.

[Kasarian]

Pay to win? Weren't the arcane on alert before they made a cosmetic version? Going even further, couldn't you say there's already a pay to win advantage established? For example, player with platinum can purchase Forma, Potato’s, and even boosters. So, isn't that kind of an irrelevant argument? o.o

 

I don't think Helmets were on Alerts when they had stats. At least when I played for the time (for 2-3 months after release of update 9, the Nova update, then I had a break till I returned on September last year) I did not see any alert for any Helmet. Unless with next few updates until 13.2.3 they changed that but I highly doubt that. In order to get them you either traded for plats or payed. Though with more thought you could say that those helmets were not exclusive to paying users but at the same time the difficulty to get them was very high.

 

As for the rest. Here's why your argument is far-fetched.

 

Forma Blueprint is obtainable for FREE in the Void. What you're paying for when buying completed is the need of getting resources and waiting 24 hours to take it out of Foundry. By paying plats for Forma you're bypassing all of that. That is Advantage not P2W as this resource is available to not paying user.

 

Potato Blueprints are given out (though rarely) both on alerts and events for free. Same as Forma, what you're paying is simply for not being patient enough (and not collecting resources). You have too many weapons/warframes but far too few Potatoes? Be patient or make your choice really matter. If you payed you have the Advantage or being more Potato happy. There's also trade and by any means, getting 20 platinum is not that hard, again, patience.

 

Boosters? For impatient people who want to bypass the grind. That is an Advantage. You can gain Affinity, Credits and Resources as player who plays with boosters, the difference being the pace at which you acquire those things.

 

Advantage =/= Pay to Win

Edited March 10, 2015 by Kasarian

[Davoodoo]

-snip-

Yes helmets with stats were in alert pool just as they are now.

 

Advantage of paying customer over one who doesnt pay is exactly what pay2win is.

Edited March 10, 2015 by Davoodoo

[Karlox]

Yes helmets with stats were in alert pool just as they are now.

 

Advantage of paying customer over one who doesnt pay is exactly what pay2win is.

 

And that's ridiculous when you can get them via both, alerts and shop as they were. The platinum spender just could have it SOONER.

 

And with that thing of Rhino and his speed... Anyone keeps sprinting yet? Lol. Coptering, we salute you. As I said before, the buffs on them are negligible. If you see them as pay2win, there's something wrong with you.

 

 

But anyway, I just see that his argument was based on the thinking of the helmets weren't obtainable for free players as formas are. It's pointless now.

Edited March 10, 2015 by Karlox

[WaRDeMoN787]

I don't think Helmets were on Alerts when they had stats. At least when I played for the time (for 2-3 months after release of update 9, the Nova update, then I had a break till I returned on September last year) I did not see any alert for any Helmet. Unless with next few updates until 13.2.3 they changed that but I highly doubt that. In order to get them you either traded for plats or payed. Though with more thought you could say that those helmets were not exclusive to paying users but at the same time the difficulty to get them was very high.

 

As for the rest. Here's why your argument is far-fetched.

 

Forma Blueprint is obtainable for FREE in the Void. What you're paying for when buying completed is the need of getting resources and waiting 24 hours to take it out of Foundry. By paying plats for Forma you're bypassing all of that. That is Advantage not P2W as this resource is available to not paying user.

 

Potato Blueprints are given out (though rarely) both on alerts and events for free. Same as Forma, what you're paying is simply for not being patient enough (and not collecting resources). You have too many weapons/warframes but far too few Potatoes? Be patient or make your choice really matter. If you payed you have the Advantage or being more Potato happy. There's also trade and by any means, getting 20 platinum is not that hard, again, patience.

 

Boosters? For impatient people who want to bypass the grind. That is an Advantage. You can gain Affinity, Credits and Resources as player who plays with boosters, the difference being the pace at which you acquire those things.

 

Advantage =/= Pay to Win

Funny, I had arcane helmets without ever purchasing them.

 

Advantages, as you call them, can be seen as a method of pay to win. You're "paying in advance" for items you may acquire through your warframe career. Pay to win never meant, getting the item nobody else could obtain to win.....or at least, in none of the free to play games I ever played; instead, showed how players could easily spend money to get ahead of the player base and win because they have better arsenal/upgrades way before they should have.

 

Buying items nobody else could obtain is a form of DLC; respectfully.

 

Yes helmets with stats were in alert pool just as they are now.

 

Advantage of paying customer over one who doesnt pay is exactly what pay2win is.

 

Thanks for the clarification! I knew DE didn't just love me that much :p

[Kasarian]

Then I guess I was wrong and everyone has different concept of what pay to win is. My loss there. (like really, I give up on that matter)

 

Still what's the point of getting them back again? Those are relics of the past and in my opinion should stay as they are.

 

Now about the idea itself (since I am already here)

 

while also giving us something more to grind on

 

While I wanted to give some feedback on the idea, once I got to this phrase (and further on)... Ugh... really? Like Really? More Grind? You're insane or what? This game has already problem in my opinion with the frikin RNGesus when it comes to getting Primes and before that the Void keys. Then we have R10 mods which are god damn expensive to level up (not to mention Prime mods) and even then we have lots and lots of affinity grinding for weapons (whether mastery fodder or forming weapon you fancy for 4-5th time) ending it on farming rare resources as Neurodes, Neurals and Orokin Cells. Not to forget getting trivial in my opinion things like BP for Frame from a Boss or the one Corrupted Mod you need/want but instead get that Tainted Shell instead... I say "Hell no." to any additional Grind to this game.

 

 

 

What I propose:

1) Treat the Arcane helmets as a corrupted mod, have them drop in the derelict as corrupted reward.
2) Make them super rare, have the drop rate at 1%. Make them something elusive. Something for us to look forward to hunting. If we want these, they should be something we have to work hard for!
3) Keep the cosmetic versions in circulation via alert.

Why?

1) There's something new to farm for in the orokin derelict vaults
2) To make it rewarding. But, for the people who paid a lot of platinum for it, this insures they can still maintain a good heavy price in the market. A win/win, right?
3) Why change anything up? This will insure people will still have their cosmetic variants.

-snip-

Other thoughts:

1) If the helmets are brought back, why not give them a glowing aura that matches the color of the warframe energy.
2) If not an aura, then perhaps have the arcane helmet with cracks (indicating it's corrupt/broken) with the warframe color flowing through the crack).
3) Give newer helmets arcane versions.

 

1) Why exactly and why in derelict? Why not Void or Starchart?

2) "something we have to work hard for!" in other words "Something to get after 5 minutes if you're lucky, or be stuck in RNG hell for 100h before you get one. And not the one you wanted exactly, what's more, the one that is not worth a broken plat to anyone"

3) Would there be need to delete them in the first place?

 

1) As if Derelict Vaults were fun to begin with.

2) Win/win for who exactly? I only see losses for anyone who has them already...

3) They will still have their cosmetic variants, YAY! Then again it'll mean they will be paying Plats in the Shop for useless cosmetic. Or they can spend much much more by buying it from someone else before you give up after grinding in Derelict.

 

1) Because we need more bling!

2) Because having a small boost to stats isn't enough!

3) Just... why?

 

 

To me all these ideas and the arguments to back them up are... ridiculous?

 

DE will be giving everyone a chance to get an enchantment for every Helmet (so Prime Warfarmes will NOT be left out) and you will be able to pick up the one you want with Arcanes (as DE named them on PAX) that will be a reward for Raid. Why are people still hung up on getting those old Arcane Helmets? I mean, some stated that it's insignificant small boost anyway...