Hotfix 15.16.2

[SoanoS]

Still no fix for...

 

The broken AFK detection system.

Instead it was made worse.

[SpiralSilver]

I have two suggestions regarding the AFK detector.

 

1: Remove it. Plain and simple.

2: Increase timer to 3-5 minutes AND make it react to jumping, powers, aiming, shooting, crouching and everything that indicates the presence of a human being at the computer.

 

It's more than 40 hours that DE is ignoring this massive amount of complaints. How can you state that there will not be more hotfixes until U16, make a hotfix anyway with ridicolous and senseless changes, disrespectful red text and pretend nothing happened?

 

I will not side with either part concerning E-Gate. I support fair and honest play, but I also think that exploiting something's weakness or characteristic is part of human intellect. It had to happen, it happened in the past and will happen again. There will always be a "loot cave", whether you want it or not, and there's probably nothing you can do to stop this forever. Just get over it.

 

I also wouldn't have cared if AFK detection worked properly. I don't understand who thought it was a good idea however, but this is quite far from the quality you promised us.

 

I like thinking that this is just a huge misunderstanding, that the real DE members were taken as hostages and the Grineer are now running the game and deciding updates and hotfixes. Also, only a Grineer could have written a red text like that one.

[007-MusicalMind]

So,  Hydroid undertow and banshee sound quake restricted to 1m only now...?

 

efficiency mods waste ?

[Sekshunate]

Umm, what? They fixed a glaring exploit and you're mad?

 

No not an exploit. These were mechanics implemented by DE, we just found a really good synergy. I know its still "beta" but I don't buy that excuse anymore.

[SmallSabba]

How about fixing some of the accually broken stuff for once instead of removing any farm- exploids?

i am quite displeased with the direction your updates are headdet. Its like you are trying to fight against your own players.

[Shimekiri]

As for AFK, I know for a fact that being immobile while using an ability for a long period of time does NOT invoke the AFK penalty.  Otherwise my Hydroid would be in serious trouble.

I can state, as a fact, that staying immobile while using an ability or spamming abilities, for an extended period of time, will get you marked as AFK. Try doing a max range/power/efficiency Mag and do 5 waves of any lowbie defense mission, using nothing but "Pull". You won't get the reward, nor will you get energy after the 1 minute marker, if you don't move/kill targets with your weapon(s).

[gyubal]

DE Dev  01 : Less grind more fun!

DE DEv 10 :...let's implement unswichable "return to the last played node" feature...

De Dev  01: That's sound's like more...fun!

Lotus : Looks like heavy activity ahead.....

Just saying...anyway keep up the good work gals und guys XD

[Fifield]

Build a stricter AFK detection system, and they will build a better macro. You aren't going to stop them. It's just like DRM, pirates always find a way around it, and what it ends up doing is punishing the legitimate paying customer by making it harder on them. Look at all the complaints you are already getting on stationary frames like Mesa or anyone who snipes.

 

There's apparently no problem with Mesa, Bansheee, snipers or any defense mission: kills stop you being marked as AFK (even if it's a macro triggering them).

There may be a small problem with Nyx.

I posted 2 solutions to the endless ability spamming problem that eliminate the need for AFK detection here: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/416568-how-to-kill-ability-spamming/page-3#entry4611901

BTW, your argument about 'don't bother with AFK detection because it's avoidable' is a bit like saying don't make biological weapons illegal because terrorists will ignore the law.  However, we've seen that current implementation is insufficient and I've shown that none is needed if DE address endless ability spamming.

@Shimekiri, that may deliberate.  If you get some kills, AFK apparently won't be triggered.

Edited March 13, 2015 by Fifield

[Doxorn]

Play a trinity in a T4 defense and you will see that there is big problems, because you didn't kill, you just spam Energy Vampire to support your teammates to help them kill everything. But suddenly you stop gain energy because of this screwed up system and can't do more energy vampire thus no more energy even for your teammates. gg

[MechaTails]

Dear DE,

 

On one hand, your playerbase is horrible. It's full of whiny exploiters who like to break the game then cry when you fix your game.

 

On the other hand, it is just a game, but it's also a business. Do whatever makes you more money. If letting the brats masturbate to how little time they spend pressing buttons makes you more money, then let them. Check the accounts of everyone whining about the changes, do they buy Prime Access packs? Are they regular plat buyers?

 

If they don't make you money, ban them or whatever for being parasites that won't let the game improve.

[Dolmaran]

^ someone mad

[Alvarez-b]

• AFK players will no longer receive any increase to their Warframe’s energy supply.

this is dumb when l am using mesa lt just stop gain the energy. its killing this warframe

Edited March 13, 2015 by (PS4)IIIDevoidIII
Language

[MechaTails]

^ someone mad

 

Not at all, I'm just rustling their jimmies lol

[xacegod]

Dear DE,

 

On one hand, your playerbase is horrible. It's full of whiny exploiters who like to break the game then cry when you fix your game.

 

On the other hand, it is just a game, but it's also a business. Do whatever makes you more money. If letting the brats masturbate to how little time they spend pressing buttons makes you more money, then let them. Check the accounts of everyone whining about the changes, do they buy Prime Access packs? Are they regular plat buyers?

 

If they don't make you money, ban them or whatever for being parasites that won't let the game improve.

Ban someone for playing a game that is supposed to be free?

What if they buy something in a month, or a year? I played this game for more than 1 year before I bought platinum, so by your standards it is like it or gtfo?

If they made forum and want the feedback to improve their game, this is the feedback. There are too many bugs and too many holes in gameplay, more new things won't fix anything.

There has been bugs that are present since Warframe was in beta (it is not in beta anymore, all the beta testers received rewards 50 plat and unique weapon) and still are present, to say that this is a fix it is far from it, gameplay I'm looking at you. Too much grind - the idea is to kill more in less time, of course there will be exploits since it is less rewarding to just run missions slowly and to enjoy the battles, where all that is means to an end, which is better mod, part, etc...

 

The solution for afk is to have pause ingame, or kick players who don't do anything or implement bots (like Specters are, so afk for a while then turn to bot and kick player).

And speaking of business this game is full of bugs. Name some other game franchise that has this many bugs and want more and more money for it? We are not happy customers and we want money back. It is the way of the world, you are unhappy with something you bought, you won't do it again... I don't think we will get money back or time wasted, but we can complain all we want...

[MechaTails]

Ban someone for playing a game that is supposed to be free?

 

Ban them for being obnoxious brats that contribute nothing but strife, yes, not that completely unassociated reason you gave.

 

It's time to drop the hammer, DE!

[TheMagicalSharpie]

Dear DE,

 

On one hand, your playerbase is horrible. It's full of whiny exploiters who like to break the game then cry when you fix your game.

 

On the other hand, it is just a game, but it's also a business. Do whatever makes you more money. If letting the brats masturbate to how little time they spend pressing buttons makes you more money, then let them. Check the accounts of everyone whining about the changes, do they buy Prime Access packs? Are they regular plat buyers?

 

If they don't make you money, ban them or whatever for being parasites that won't let the game improve.

 

It's full of whiny exploiters because there's no way to legitimately progress in this game at any reasonable speed without using form of exploit, whether it be a power maxed team of nuke spammers and a trinity or the team make up that rocked E-gate and Viver like it was 1969.  The grind wall is too large and the pay off too small to condone normal gameplay.  You could play captures and exterminates in the star chart all day long and get 2-300 standing and maybe a few hundred exp depending on what enemies are killed.  And then you get a E-Gate team together and go run T3S for 40 minutes and get 15K standing and max out the 2-3 mastery trash items you brought to take advantage of it.  Why spend all day doing crappy missions that at most give you 2-3K standing in 15-20 minutes, when you can do a 40 minute run and get quadruple that?  That's the point here, it's why pirating is more of a service problem rather than a criminal one.  People pirate because the alternatives can be mindlessly annoying: Invasive unplayable DRM, hoop hopping just to play, bad community, etc.   Same thing here, People do things like E-Gate because the alternative is sitting down 7-8 hours a day just to level 2-3 guns,  when I can do that in 40 minutes instead.  Then there's the primed mod cards that take enough money to put a corpus chairmen out of business to level up and use more gold cores than any 3 gold 10 mods you can name.

 

Simple way to fix this?  Make drops more rewarding, Lower the grind ceiling so it doesn't bankrupt you to max out mods and fix resource drop rates so that bosses Like Alad don't drop freaking Salvage when I kill them.  It's not like he's carrying scrap metal around in his pockets.  If we're going to fight a boss at least make each fight worth the effort or we'll find something different that gives us a better return for our time.

 

THAT in a nutshell is the argument, problem and solution.

 

"Do whatever makes you more money."

 

Except alienating and insulting half your user base is tantamount to walking into a biker bar and telling them all that their mothers have very good leg strength to be able to remain on their knees for so long.

 

"do they buy Prime Access packs? Are they regular plat buyers?"

 

This is an even worse business practice, catering to the people who buy things with real money, which should in and of itself be the only thing that's catered to them. Anything past that is in poor taste and judgement. A purchase should remain a purchase without any side benefits or favors from the seller, treating people like second class citizens or even criminals because they cant afford a purchase is a serious disrespect.  This is a F2P game, so until such a time that monthly payments are required to play the game, DE should not, nor ever treat a paying player differently from a non-paying player.

 

Let me put it this way.  Would you honestly buy from Baro Ki Teer in real life if he constantly insulted what you wear?  Just because you didn't have something he respected on you?  I know I wouldn't tolerate it.

Edited March 14, 2015 by TheMagicalSharpie

[ScorpDK]

So...question. The AFK thingy...that's obviously only active on co-op mode, and disabled on Solo...yes?

Because you are the only guy there, nobody is going to carry you through the mission, therefore making the system pointless. Sentinels already enter brain-dead mode, and Kubrows do not attack unless you do. And I do like to take a short pause during my Void exploration to regen energy without having to plop down a pad. 

[Shimekiri]

@Shimekiri, that may deliberate.  If you get some kills, AFK apparently won't be triggered.

That's my point, you get all the kills by using the Pull, but AFK will still be trigged.

[Ghosthail]

I usually lurk on forums in read-only but last update was soo "cool" that i even logged in to actually post.

 

The second i saw th e-gate farming i thought "this will be nerfed to oblivion ASAP"  Srsly guys, DE can and WILL protect their money income. even if it means to add massive "crutch-tower" patching.

 

but i have a strong feeling, that their greed is  dulling their minds to "sharpness" of Siberian valenok\ugg boot. Current  "AFK" mechanics is seriously  broken.

 

-Waiting in the end of map for slower teammates? You`re damned AFKer

-lying wounded on a floor just to be resurrected and shot down again? AFKer

-defending objective shooting and casting? AFKer.

 

Spawn rate "fixed".  I usually play game for slaughter. And i really don`t like to run a map with no single enemy after 10 seconds of moderate brawling.  base in a state of alarm, and no reinforcements? Seriously? Tennos running somwhere near reactor and noone goes to defend it? Hmmm... makes perfect sence. [/sarcasm.]

 

Srsly DE, are you hired some walking oaks as a game designers for this so-called update?

 

How staying in one spot, but aiming and shooting like crazy can be considered AFK? You can`t detect  fact of shooting or aiming?

 

That "update" looks like " To hell with game mechaniks, sanity, common sence or  players. we losing MONEY!!!!oneoneeleven . We should stop that at once!

Edited March 14, 2015 by Ghosthail

[SpiralSilver]

So...question. The AFK thingy...that's obviously only active on co-op mode, and disabled on Solo...yes?

Because you are the only guy there, nobody is going to carry you through the mission, therefore making the system pointless. Sentinels already enter brain-dead mode, and Kubrows do not attack unless you do. And I do like to take a short pause during my Void exploration to regen energy without having to plop down a pad. 

I tried personally the AFK mechanic when I was solo. Not invite only or just friends, I was solo. The AFK detector just did what is doing to everyone.

[Fluttershy93]

The big problem is yes AFK timers are ok if they are implemented the right way, which DE has not done. Legit players should not have to FEAR the AFK system and it's strict rules. Changing how it marks players as AFK should be looked into further rather then releasing a system which is marking people left and right.

[Shimekiri]

Current macros can be used to have your own "pressing delay", basically, you press buttons a certain amount of times and those delay times are saved, then you can set the macro to "toggled", so it repeats itself until turned off, so having it track a "specific repeated delay in a row" won't work on atleast half of the macros in existence.

[Shimekiri]

The only way to "prevent" the abuse of macros(There are legit ones, especially rapid-fire macros for mouse f.ex. when using weapons that don't have full-auto feature.) would be to have a tracking script, that would take random, let's say 3 second segments of button presses over the course of the first 3-5 minutes of a mission and then it have compare those segments fulltime to every action sequence taking place for the next 3-5 minutes and if it detects repetition of more than 1 segment, it would kick that person out of the game without any warning, instantly.(Note: It wouldn't wait for the "tracking" timer to end before the kick, the kick would take place as soon as any segment repetition would be noticed. This process would also repeat itself for the full duration of the mission, so it wouldn't lose any of its effectiveness. The downside is that this kind of a script could be fairly heavy to run, depending on its execution.) The script should also ignore any and all LMB presses/repetitions as aimbots are pretty much non-existant and no "effective farming" techniques rely on weapons fire. To further prevent the misuse of this exception, you could make the LMB button completely unreconfigurable in the game settings, so that it can only, ever, be used for channeling/firing a weapon. This would also make the weapon firing macros for non-auto weapons safe to use, whilst still detecting all of the ability spam, which is what all of the "efficient/afk farming" bots/macros are using.

 

This wouldn't prevent the use of macros for legit users or for users that use some generic macros to afk quickly for, let's say a bathroom break on a long t4 survival/defense mission, but it would hamper the use of the generic/easy-to-use macros/toggle macros/repeat macros for afking extended periods of time, such as what was done at E Gate. 

 

On another subject; This would, still leave the fully non-functional afking script still in place though, which should be fully removed from the game and redesigned from scratch, as a priorty #1 hotfix to the game though. It really is so utterly broken, it doesn't prevent any level of macro use from anyone who knows anything about macros, but it absolutely destroys most of the currently used/valid/common tactics for high level play in the game.

 

Edit: Typos and a little clarification.

Edited March 14, 2015 by Shimekiri

[MechaTails]

It's full of whiny exploiters because there's no way to legitimately progress in this game at any reasonable speed without using form of exploit, whether it be a power maxed team of nuke spammers and a trinity or the team make up that rocked E-gate and Viver like it was 1969.  The grind wall is too large and the pay off too small to condone normal gameplay.  You could play captures and exterminates in the star chart all day long and get 2-300 standing and maybe a few hundred exp depending on what enemies are killed.  And then you get a E-Gate team together and go run T3S for 40 minutes and get 15K standing and max out the 2-3 mastery trash items you brought to take advantage of it.  Why spend all day doing crappy missions that at most give you 2-3K standing in 15-20 minutes, when you can do a 40 minute run and get quadruple that?  That's the point here, it's why pirating is more of a service problem rather than a criminal one.  People pirate because the alternatives can be mindlessly annoying: Invasive unplayable DRM, hoop hopping just to play, bad community, etc.   Same thing here, People do things like E-Gate because the alternative is sitting down 7-8 hours a day just to level 2-3 guns,  when I can do that in 40 minutes instead.  Then there's the primed mod cards that take enough money to put a corpus chairmen out of business to level up and use more gold cores than any 3 gold 10 mods you can name.

 

Simple way to fix this?  Make drops more rewarding, Lower the grind ceiling so it doesn't bankrupt you to max out mods and fix resource drop rates so that bosses Like Alad don't drop freaking Salvage when I kill them.  It's not like he's carrying scrap metal around in his pockets.  If we're going to fight a boss at least make each fight worth the effort or we'll find something different that gives us a better return for our time.

 

THAT in a nutshell is the argument, problem and solution.

 

"Do whatever makes you more money."

 

Except alienating and insulting half your user base is tantamount to walking into a biker bar and telling them all that their mothers have very good leg strength to be able to remain on their knees for so long.

 

"do they buy Prime Access packs? Are they regular plat buyers?"

 

This is an even worse business practice, catering to the people who buy things with real money, which should in and of itself be the only thing that's catered to them. Anything past that is in poor taste and judgement. A purchase should remain a purchase without any side benefits or favors from the seller, treating people like second class citizens or even criminals because they cant afford a purchase is a serious disrespect.  This is a F2P game, so until such a time that monthly payments are required to play the game, DE should not, nor ever treat a paying player differently from a non-paying player.

 

Let me put it this way.  Would you honestly buy from Baro Ki Teer in real life if he constantly insulted what you wear?  Just because you didn't have something he respected on you?  I know I wouldn't tolerate it.

I havent read anything in this topic, im just here to provoke walls of text rofl

[AdeptJR]

This might be breaking promises, but this is good sign.

 

If they're able to allocate coders to tasks other than Update 16, then it is clear that development is nearing completion faster than we think.

I've a good feeling about this.