Chroma, The New Dragon Frame (Re-Megathread)

[arch111]

There are many who say Tenno do not have eyes. Along comes Mirage with two perfectly placed eyes.

There are many who say Tenno do not have mouths. Along comes a frame that spits fire. From the forehead.

Why not from the region where the mouth is? A Warframe is a battmearmor anyways with magical abilities.

I know it is the warframe who do the power, but the Tenno pilot brings the mojo.

I actually hoped there would be no firebreathing. I hoped that the focus on color would mean more special effects than that.

Now that we know we will be breathing cold fire it cements the Dragon. So now I fully expect dragon flight, dragon summons or energyshape like a dragon, and aoe based on color: healing, poison, fireblast, coldblast, corrosive blast, toxic blast.

Something along those lines. Then a syandana like dragon wings, a dragonthemed sword or greataxe and cosmetics with basass deagon motiffs.

Its better to go to far, than to fall short.

[Invalid_Infinity]

This isn't to "going to try and make others look bad for the sake of making yourself feel good?"  You are just trying to swat aside the truth of the matter, Invalid.  You are unable to let it go, you are unable to tolerate anyone who views anything differently from you and you are a broken record.  We, EVERYONE who has spent 10 minutes on the forums... knows how YOU feel.  DE knows how some people on the forums feel, is that not enough?  Maybe you can let other people talk about the POSITIVES instead of being a negative nancy all the D#$% time dude, Its sickening, it's beating a dead horse and it's immature. 

 

Once again, You've made your stance clear, now... you are NOT the ONLY person with a opinion.  Quit trying to steamroll anyone with your whole "If you continue to speak about the appearance then I will reply in kind."  You have just stated in NO uncertain terms that if ANYONE talks positively about Chroma you will seek to destroy their opinion.

 

This isn't healthy, and you need a break dude.

I stated that if they use the same argument as everyone else and can be easily disproven then I will do my best to disprove it. That is how an argument works in the real world. Deal with it. I am not going to hold back just because you people feel threatened.

 

I will not allow someone to claim something to be truthful when it is in fact not truthful. That is disinformation and I despise it. If there are any positives about Chroma's appearance that you people can show me that do not require you to misinterpret or misinform others then I will gladly accept it. It is no fault of my own that you do not properly back up your argument with facts. Instead you use half truths and blatant lies.

Take the eastern dragon inspiration argument for example. 

You people try and make it seem that that was what DE was going for considering the games eastern influence. The only thing vaguely eastern dragon like about chroma is the "whiskers" on the helmet! The muzzle does not fit the shape of a traditional eastern dragon. You are deliberately misinforming people! I cannot tolerate that kind of stuff! 

 

I have stated that I will reply in kind. That is how I deal with things. If we want to change the topic I would be more than happy to but I will not allow something false to slip by without comment. 

[GreyEnneract]

-

You're wrong here in a multitude of ways.

In the end, you're just trying to censor this man.

[vaugahn]

Does me defending our right to state an opinion mean that I am not willing to let go of the argument? No, it does not.

 

Yes, it definitely does.

[achromos]

I stated that if they use the same argument as everyone else and can be easily disproven then I will do my best to disprove it. That is how an argument works in the real world. Deal with it. I am not going to hold back just because you people feel threatened.

 

I will not allow someone to claim something to be truthful when it is in fact not truthful. That is disinformation and I despise it. If there are any positives about Chroma's appearance that you people can show me that do not require you to misinterpret or misinform others then I will gladly accept it. It is no fault of my own that you do not properly back up your argument with facts. Instead you use half truths and blatant lies.

Take the eastern dragon inspiration argument for example. 

You people try and make it seem that that was what DE was going for considering the games eastern influence. The only thing vaguely eastern dragon like about chroma is the "whiskers" on the helmet! The muzzle does not fit the shape of a traditional eastern dragon. You are deliberately misinforming people! I cannot tolerate that kind of stuff! 

 

I have stated that I will reply in kind. That is how I deal with things. If we want to change the topic I would be more than happy to but I will not allow something false to slip by without comment. 

 

Trying to prove something to you is like trying to prove anything to a brick wall, we aren't here to "Prove" ANYTHING to you.  You are obviously going to hate on ANY opinion because that is your stance.  "Half truths and blatant lies"?  We don't know the truth, being honest Invalid.  All we know is the wide catagory of "Dragon theme"  which if you use your head-meat you will be able to stand back for two seconds and realise how vast that is.  It's like DE saying "I'm going to paint this picture with JUST red as the theme"  and they use pink,  pink is still red but it is a mixture of other things.  You are unfortunately unable to see that.

 

"Not allow someone to claim something to be truthful when it is in fact not truthful"  It is not disinformation, it is OPINION, just like yours.  People can interpret things differently, you need to allow this.  THIS is what helps a healthy discussion.

 

"You people"?  I only see Tenno, I only see people wanting to have fun with a game, and I see you yelling, raging, screaming, breaking everyone opinions because you have such a unhealthy dislike for a PIXILATED CHARACTER IN A FICTIONAL GAME.  Just because he dose not fit the direct 'main stream' look of a Dragon... Does not mean you can stomp on other peoples interpretations of it because you are so narrow minded that unless it has claws, and a vague draconic helmet you cannot see "dragon" 

 

http://i.imgur.com/9Evbgrk.jpg

p.s. this is not any more draconic than Chroma, it's just a person/robot with clawed hands and a very vague dragonic/samuraiish  helmet

 

Get off your high horse, and quit thinking that you can dominate the conversation or force people to view things differently, you are becoming a toxin in the forums.  Let people breath D%$#it, this isn't me telling you that you cannot voice your opinion, this is me telling you that we have heard your opinion, over, and over again.  It still does NOT change my opinion and obviously other people view things differently so why not do yourself a favor and take a break.

 

 

 

You're wrong here in a multitude of ways.

In the end, you're just trying to censor this man.

 

He is trying to Censor EVERYONE who has a opinon opposing his, he obviously said it.  His words, not mine.  You can see it through his aggressive actions too, this is the "Warframe" forums.  not "Invalid" forums.  I don't care how he sees Chroma, he has every right to, just as you or I do.  He has his right to express it, I'm suggesting he takes a break.  Yet you think I'm trying to do something that I'm not.

 

I'm NOT trying to censor him, I'm trying to open his eyes to the cold hard fact that he is trying a bit too hard, and going overboard.

Edited March 16, 2015 by achromos

[Ronyn]

 

 Does me defending our right to state an opinion mean that I am not willing to let go of the argument? No, it does not.

Honestly...

 

Yes, it definitely does.

However I still say that if someone wants to go n and on about something that is their business.

 

------

You have just stated in NO uncertain terms that if ANYONE talks positively about Chroma you will seek to destroy their opinion.

 

He is trying to Censor EVERYONE who has a opinon opposing his, he obviously said it.  

Wait....When did he say that?

Edited March 16, 2015 by Ronyn

[Invalid_Infinity]

Trying to prove something to you is like trying to prove anything to a brick wall, we aren't here to "Prove" ANYTHING to you.  You are obviously going to hate on ANY opinion because that is your stance.  "Half truths and blatant lies"?  We don't know the truth, being honest Invalid.  All we know is the wide catagory of "Dragon theme"  which if you use your head-meat you will be able to stand back for two seconds and realise how vast that is.  It's like DE saying "I'm going to paint this picture with JUST red as the theme"  and they use pink,  pink is still red but it is a mixture of other things.  You are unfortunately unable to see that.

 

"Not allow someone to claim something to be truthful when it is in fact not truthful"  It is not disinformation, it is OPINION, just like yours.  People can interpret things differently, you need to allow this.  THIS is what helps a healthy discussion.

 

"You people"?  I only see Tenno, I only see people wanting to have fun with a game, and I see you yelling, raging, screaming, breaking everyone opinions because you have such a unhealthy dislike for a PIXILATED CHARACTER IN A FICTIONAL GAME.  Just because he dose not fit the direct 'main stream' look of a Dragon... Does not mean you can stomp on other peoples interpretations of it because you are so narrow minded that unless it has claws, and a vague draconic helmet you cannot see "dragon" 

 

Get off your high horse, and quit thinking that you can dominate the conversation or force people to view things differently, you are becoming a toxin in the forums.  Let people breath D%$#it, this isn't me telling you that you cannot voice your opinion, this is me telling you that we have heard your opinion, over, and over again.  It still does NOT change my opinion and obviously other people view things differently so why not do yourself a favor and take a break.

 

 

 

 

He is trying to Censor EVERYONE who has a opinon opposing his, he obviously said it.  His words, not mine.  You can see it through his aggressive actions too, this is the "Warframe" forums.  not "Invalid" forums.  I don't care how he sees Chroma, he has every right to, just as you or I do.  He has his right to express it, I'm suggesting he takes a break.  Yet you think I'm trying to do something that I'm not.

 

I'm NOT trying to censor him, I'm trying to open his eyes to the cold hard fact that he is trying a bit too hard, and going overboard.

I WANT people to research their damned topic instead of providing already disproven or weak arguments!

 

 That is what I want and rarely do I see people make that damned effort! 

 

I am not trying to censor anyone. Your accusation is hypocritical. 

[tocorro]

Yes, it definitely does.

 

Neither side is willing to let go ;] And we probably won't let go, or change our minds. Best proof is those hundreds of pages in megathread.

[vaugahn]

I WANT people to research their damned topic instead of providing already disproven or weak arguments!

 

And this is where you continue to fail.

 

You've yet to disprove any arguments, and there are no weak arguments, because art is subjective. I have an abstract painting on the wall in my apartment. It's a big ol' mess of color, and if someone tells me they see a dragon in it I don't launch on a diatribe about how wrong and weak they are. 

 

Everyone has an opinion, you're welcome to yours. You're not welcome to try and claim that your opinion is somehow objective.

[Buzkyl]

Ah so we moved onto from thrashing Chroma to thrashing each other's opinions?

 

Wonderful! We're making progress.

 

 

At this point is where a mod would come up and just clean up the thread, because both sides of the current argument aren't willing to just let it die, justified or not.

Edited March 16, 2015 by cozzi21

[achromos]

I WANT people to research their damned topic instead of providing already disproven or weak arguments!

 

 That is what I want and rarely do I see people make that damned effort! 

 

I am not trying to censor anyone. Your accusation is hypocritical. 

 

Seriously, the people who bring up their "Disproven or weak arguments!" are bringing up arguments that make sense to THEM.  The whole "Greek dragon" thing makes sense, as well as a plethora of other things.  Perception is key and in terms of "Seeing people make the effort!"?  They shouldn't have to think like you to enjoy the game, they shouldn't have to get their opinions and views checked by YOU in order to have them validated.

 

You stated in no uncertain terms, here and i will quote:

 

"If you continue to speak about the appearance then I will reply in kind."

 

This is a aggressive, and unhealthy stance and it speaks in clear terms.  These are your words, go and read your post.  These words clearly state that "If they continue to speak about Chromas appearance and I don't have the same view I WILL take it upon MYSELF to prove them wrong because I am the one with the right opinion and THEY are wrong."

 

So... you are really going to have to explain that part to me.

[GreyEnneract]

-

He isn't censoring anyone, he is trying to correct people. Nothing that he has posted thus far is him trying to censor someone.

Yet you are blatantly telling this man to stop posting. If you are against free speech then I suggest not using a forum.

[GreyEnneract]

"If you continue to speak about the appearance then I will reply in kind."

 

This is a aggressive, and unhealthy stance and it speaks in clear terms.  These are your words, go and read your post.  These words clearly state that "If they continue to speak about Chromas appearance and I don't have the same view I WILL take it upon MYSELF to prove them wrong because I am the one with the right opinion and THEY are wrong."

 

So... you are really going to have to explain that part to me.

That is not an aggressive statement, unless for some reason replies in general trigger you.

If that is the case, then once again, I don't think using a forum will be beneficial to your health.

[Ronyn]

And this is where you continue to fail.

 

You've yet to disprove any arguments, and there are no weak arguments, because art is subjective. I have an abstract painting on the wall in my apartment. It's a big ol' mess of color, and if someone tells me they see a dragon in it I don't launch on a diatribe about how wrong and weak they are. 

 

Everyone has an opinion, you're welcome to yours. You're not welcome to try and claim that your opinion is somehow objective.

 

 

  All we know is the wide catagory of "Dragon theme"  which if you use your head-meat you will be able to stand back for two seconds and realise how vast that is.  It's like DE saying "I'm going to paint this picture with JUST red as the theme"  and they use pink,  pink is still red but it is a mixture of other things.  You are unfortunately unable to see that. -- Everyone has an opinion, you're welcome to yours. You're not welcome to try and claim that your opinion is somehow objective.

 

 

This is a aggressive, and unhealthy stance and it speaks in clear terms.  These are your words, go and read your post.  These words clearly state that "If they continue to speak about Chromas appearance and I don't have the same view I WILL take it upon MYSELF to prove them wrong because I am the one with the right opinion and THEY are wrong."

 

So... you are really going to have to explain that part to me.

 

 

eh....This is the thing I cannot seem to get across to folks.

 

Abstracts and impressionistic pieces can evoke the feeling of many things to many different people. Subjective.

However, the shapes in these paintings will either match the source material or not. Objective. 

 

There are indeed a whole lot of different historical depictions of dragons from various cultures.

Asian, Greek, aztec, etc....yet NONE of them share the same shaping with what we have seen in Chroma's reveal.

Moreover, no mixture of their heads (not even just the top portion like a headdress) would result in the shaping of Chroma's helmet.

It's like suggesting that putting a circle and a triangle together could somehow form a square. It doesn't work like that.

So no, Chroma is not like any classical depiction of any dragons from any historical depiction. 

Anyone saying otherwise is either lying or mistaken.

 

HOWEVER...

Does that mean that someone cannot get the vibe of dragon from Chroma? No, of course they can.

Does that mean that someone cant enjoy Chroma's look? No, of course they can.

 

DE did something unique. That's their thing. Like it, don't like it. Whatever....

Edited March 16, 2015 by Ronyn

[achromos]

He isn't censoring anyone, he is trying to correct people. Nothing that he has posted thus far is him trying to censor someone.

Yet you are blatantly telling this man to stop posting. If you are against free speech then I suggest not using a forum.

 

That is not an aggressive statement, unless for some reason replies in general trigger you.

If that is the case, then once again, I don't think using a forum will be beneficial to your health.

 

I'm not trying to censor him, I'm trying to tell him to just chill.  People know how he feels and disallowing other people to have other opinions is not healthy for discussion.  He is free to do as he wishes, I'm not a moderator and I'm not trying to be [Don't want to be, no offense]  I'm not against free speech, he is, I'm getting the "I agree with invalids opinions so i'm going to defend him' vibe from you. 

 

I'm blatantly telling him to take a break, 15 minutes?  A hour?  A day?  I never specified, that is just ... omg your perception, just like other people have about this frame.

 

To me, to others obviously it is a aggressive statement and being so aggressive is not healthy for social conduct.

[Invalid_Infinity]

Seriously, the people who bring up their "Disproven or weak arguments!" are bringing up arguments that make sense to THEM.  The whole "Greek dragon" thing makes sense, as well as a plethora of other things.  Perception is key and in terms of "Seeing people make the effort!"?  They shouldn't have to think like you to enjoy the game, they shouldn't have to get their opinions and views checked by YOU in order to have them validated.

 

You stated in no uncertain terms, here and i will quote:

 

 

 

 

This is a aggressive, and unhealthy stance and it speaks in clear terms.  These are your words, go and read your post.  These words clearly state that "If they continue to speak about Chromas appearance and I don't have the same view I WILL take it upon MYSELF to prove them wrong because I am the one with the right opinion and THEY are wrong."

 

So... you are really going to have to explain that part to me.

 

And this is where you continue to fail.

 

You've yet to disprove any arguments, and there are no weak arguments, because art is subjective. I have an abstract painting on the wall in my apartment. It's a big ol' mess of color, and if someone tells me they see a dragon in it I don't launch on a diatribe about how wrong and weak they are. 

 

Everyone has an opinion, you're welcome to yours. You're not welcome to try and claim that your opinion is somehow objective.

It is amazing how little you people understand my argument. 

 

To start this entire conversation began when I made an offhand comment about someone asking people to stop providing their opinions. I told that person to not limit what people say just because they didn't like it. Maybe in not so many words but that was my intention. 

 

Someone can explain why they see a dragon in an abstract painting quite easily if they make the effort. That is all I ask.

I do however have an issue if someone calls a seahorse a dragon because those are two different things. There is a distinct difference in what can be proven and what cannot. I know what can be proven as I have done the research. It is no fault of my own if you don't make the effort to have a strong argument. 

For example, the "sea dragon" seahorse as an inspiration for the frame is a weak one. The only thing that would have reflected a sea dragon (seahorse) would have been the muzzle of chroma's helmet which will likely be changeable with another helmet and thus invalidate their claim.

There is nothing of a seahorse in the body of chroma therefore it is a weak argument. 

 

What I had said (and this is copy pasted) is this: "I stated that if they use the same argument as everyone else and can be easily disproven then I will do my best to disprove it. That is how an argument works in the real world."

There are always weak arguments. Use facts, pictures, and explanations about why you think this is valid otherwise it is a WEAK ARGUMENT.

You don't see many people who debate for a living spewing out their opinion as a fact with no proof or explanation about why they think that way now do you? Make the goddamn effort to be informed otherwise face the consequences. 

[vaugahn]

Asian, Greek, aztec, etc....yet NONE of them share the same shaping with what we have seen in Chroma's reveal.

 

That's hardly true.

 

Someone can explain why they see a dragon in an abstract painting quite easily if they make the effort. That is all I ask.

 

Which people have done, time and time again. Facts, pictures, explanations, all of those have been given. They're all met with the same response. None of those things seem to matter to you.

 

There's only so many times people will beat their head against a wall.

[Invalid_Infinity]

I'm not trying to censor him, I'm trying to tell him to just chill.  People know how he feels and disallowing other people to have other opinions is not healthy for discussion.  He is free to do as he wishes, I'm not a moderator and I'm not trying to be [Don't want to be, no offense]  I'm not against free speech, he is, I'm getting the "I agree with invalids opinions so i'm going to defend him' vibe from you. 

 

I'm blatantly telling him to take a break, 15 minutes?  A hour?  A day?  I never specified, that is just ... omg your perception, just like other people have about this frame.

 

To me, to others obviously it is a aggressive statement and being so aggressive is not healthy for social conduct.

Your idea of a break and my idea of a break are two very different things then. 

 

Telling me to chill while trying to argue with me does not make me chill. Just so you know.

[GreyEnneract]

To me, to others obviously it is a aggressive statement and being so aggressive is not healthy for social conduct.

Are you saying replies are aggressive?

Who else is claiming that "If you continue to speak about the appearance then I will reply in kind." is aggressive? 

[Invalid_Infinity]

 

eh....This is the thing I cannot seem to get across to folks.

 

Abstracts and impressionistic pieces can evoke the feeling of many things to many different people. Subjective.

However, the shapes in these paintings will either match the source material or not. Objective. 

 

There are indeed a whole lot of different historical depictions of dragons from various cultures.

Asian, Greek, aztec, etc....yet NONE of them share the same shaping with what we have seen in Chroma's reveal.

Moreover, no mixture of their heads (not even just the top portion like a headdress) would result in the shaping of Chroma's helmet.

It's like suggesting that putting a circle and a triangle together could somehow form a square. It doesn't work like that.

So no, Chroma is not like any classical depiction of any dragons from any historical depiction. 

Anyone saying otherwise is either lying or mistaken.

 

HOWEVER...

Does that mean that someone cannot get the vibe of dragon from Chroma? No, of course they can.

Does that mean that someone cant enjoy Chroma's look? No, of course they can.

 

DE did something unique. That's their thing. Like it, don't like it. Whatever....

 

Agreed. You sir actually think.

[Buzkyl]

 

Someone can explain why they see a dragon in an abstract painting quite easily if they make the effort. That is all I ask.

I do however have an issue if someone calls a seahorse a dragon because those are two different things. There is a distinct difference in what can be proven and what cannot. I know what can be proven as I have done the research. It is no fault of my own if you don't make the effort to have a strong argument. 

For example, the "sea dragon" seahorse as an inspiration for the frame is a weak one. The only thing that would have reflected a sea dragon (seahorse) would have been the muzzle of chroma's helmet which will likely be changeable with another helmet and thus invalidate their claim.

There is nothing of a seahorse in the body of chroma therefore it is a weak argument. 

 

 

So people's opinion must be okayed by you, followed with strong reasoning or else it is weak? Sheesh no wonder this thread is going so long, you are relentless. It's like arguing against a wall.

 

Reply or not, i don't care for this thread until something relevant to Chroma shows up

Edited March 16, 2015 by cozzi21

[Invalid_Infinity]

So people's opinion must be okayed by you, followed with strong reasoning or else it is weak? Sheesh no wonder this thread is going so long, you are relentless. It's like arguing against a wall.

Damn straight!

That is what an argument is.

 

Now people are we going to sit here all day and complain or are we going to talk about something more interesting?

Like.....Chroma's abilities? Like what people wanted before all of this unpleasantness? 

[vaugahn]

Agreed. You sir actually think.

 

As seen here. You only accept opinions that support yours. If they don't support yours...well, good luck I guess. No matter how strong the evidence, they will be dismissed as irrelevant.'

 

Which is not what an argument is, just FYI.

[HolyDonut3]

Damn straight!

That is what an argument is.

 

Now people are we going to sit here all day and complain or are we going to talk about something more interesting?

Like.....Chroma's abilities? Like what people wanted before all of this unpleasantness? 

 

On the topic of his abilities, the energy color will affect both their element and function. I imagine that fire abilities will focus more on straight damage output and destruction, with minimal CC, while ice would result in lower damage but better CC, slows and freezes. I guess electric would be focused on buffing allies and toxin on debuffing enemies?

[Ronyn]

That's hardly true.

Its entirely true. There has been no evidence to the contrary.