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[DE]Drew

March 13Th: Community Hot Topics!

Community Hot Topics  

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AFK system
The AFK system is the subject of a preponderance of community hot topics right now, so we’ll cover it first in this week’s Community Hot Topics. Apart from any bugs that might be caused by the AFK system, what are your thoughts on its current implementation? Do you think 2 minutes of inactivity is fair? Players have suggested a few alternate ideas - like a vote system after 2 minutes. Would you do anything to improve the current AFK system (assuming any bugs have been fixed)? Please, answer in the polls, this thread, or the source threads. 
 

 

 

Frost
I have received requests to cover Frost in the past few Community Hot Topic threads, so finally, the iceman cometh. What are your thoughts on Frost’s current iteration? Do you think his powers are cool or are they not so hot? What would you change, if anything? How do you feel about Frost, overall? I have included the usual Warframe ability poll so that you can vote for the powers with which you are the least satisfied. 
 
Source threads:
 
 
Capture the Cephalon
Mastikator2 has a hot thread that asks players to rate their excitement for the upcoming “Capture the Cephalon” pvp mode (it is similar to traditional “capture the flag” game modes). I’ve included a poll that is aimed towards players who are interested in the new PvP system. In February, we had a Community Hot Topics poll that asked players if they would be more inclined to play PvP after the upcoming changes, so if you think you’ll be inclined to play Capture the Cephalon, please answer in the poll and give your feedback in this thread. If you’d like to see other PvP modes, feel free to post about those as well. If you’re not interested in PvP, feel free to skip this topic. You can read more about the coming PvP changes here
 
Source thread:
 

Sniper Rifles
Sniper rifles are a minority in the primary weapon slot, but they frequently become hot topics in the community. This week, we’ll cover them the same way we’ve covered other weapon groups in previous Community Hot Topic threads. What changes would you make to Sniper Rifles, if any? Do you think they fit as a primary weapon? Would you change their ammo drops at all? How often do you use sniper rifles? Is there a change that would make you use them more? Answer the polls and post your thoughts/comments on Sniper Rifles in this thread or in the source threads below. 
 
Source threads:
 

 

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AFK should be timed, and act differently, according to the types of missions and objectives.

2 minutes is too much when doing invasions/infestations etc, but 2 minutes is too low for endless missions and longer missions types.

And from what I understand the game only is paying attention to the wasd keys, so it ignores if the player is actively killing with either the mouse or powers...

 

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Frost? Really? Again? How about paying some attention to frames that never got reworks, like the living trash can known as limbo.

Or maybe trinity, she hasnt been nerfed in months now, she still can move her feet, use powers and weapons, nerf the b*tch, she is too OP.

 

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Snipers are cool, but not for this game, were there is no maps or situations to snipe, and were we fight a constant 7 to 20 enemies at a time, nobody got time to shoot 1 bullet that doesn't 1 shoot the enemy.

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Can I mention that one major improvement to Frost's bubble would be to add some way of telling how much health it currently has. Same thing goes for Nyx absorb and Rhino iron skin, but given the way you can 'renew' the duration and add the previous bubble's health (particularly given that it also absorb some damage, so its total value can be unpredictable) it really would help a lot. If you could see the health of the last cast bubble, maybe in with the status effects or something, it would really, really help.

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AFK should be timed, and act differently, according to the types of missions and objectives.

2 minutes is too much when doing invasions/infestations etc, but 2 minutes is too low for endless missions and longer missions types.

And from what I understand the game only is paying attention to the wasd keys, so it ignores if the player is actively killing with either the mouse or powers...

 

----------------------

 

Frost? Really? Again? How about paying some attention to frames that never got reworks, like the living trash can known as limbo.

Or maybe trinity, she hasnt been nerfed in months now, she still can move her feet, use powers and weapons, nerf the b*tch, she is too OP.

 

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Snipers are cool, but not for this game, were there is no maps or situations to snipe, and were we fight a constant 7 to 20 enemies at a time, nobody got time to shoot 1 bullet that doesn't 1 shoot the enemy.

 

Errr.. firstly Limbo is actually a really strong frame, you just need to think about how you use him. Secondarily, Trinity is still one of the most powerful warframes in the game - no one else can face-tank lvl 200+ enemies like she can. Thirdly, snipers DO one-shot enemies more often than not unless you've modded them really badly. They're little different from bows, only more accurate and don't have a charge time. And if you have issues with lots of enemies, your can give it punch through and use your own movement to line up double, triple etc headshots quite easily once you get used to it, let alone how easy it is to get multiple body-shots.

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I still strongly feel like AFK players shouldn't be determined entirely by the game; once the game thinks someone is AFK, it should then ask the other players if they wish to kick them.

 

The out-of-the-blue system it currently uses is constantly hurting people when it shouldn't.

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Errr.. firstly Limbo is actually a really strong frame, you just need to think about how you use him. Secondarily, Trinity is still one of the most powerful warframes in the game - no one else can face-tank lvl 200+ enemies like she can. Thirdly, snipers DO one-shot enemies more often than not unless you've modded them really badly. They're little different from bows, only more accurate and don't have a charge time. And if you have issues with lots of enemies, your can give it punch through and use your own movement to line up double, triple etc headshots quite easily once you get used to it, let alone how easy it is to get multiple body-shots.

 

Sorry, but i no longer play against enemies below level 20, in that rainbow world, yes, all you said is true, even limbo haves a chance of killing stuff.

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I still strongly feel like AFK players shouldn't be determined entirely by the game; once the game thinks someone is AFK, it should then ask the other players if they wish to kick them.

 

The out-of-the-blue system it currently uses is constantly hurting people when it shouldn't.

^ this. Please. As it is, the AFK system is far too clunky. I have had far too many games with smart leechers, who know how to hide and every now and then come back to press a button and stay in game. However, when someone you've been valiantly fighting through more than 40 minutes of a survival with has to go for a moment and gets kicked... it is not good. My advice, shorten the timer but make it vote-based. Assuming it's still on a timer people can't abuse it, but it still enables actual issues to be removed.

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1: PVP needs to have Sniper Rifles, because if we dont have any on PVP, Vantage / Sniping area spots will be useless.

2: Make the Sniper Rifles Extremely Powerfull when I comes to DPS so every single bullet can really kill a person or a high lvl mob.

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AFK

The amount of time isn't what's the issue. Players being tagged as AFK when they aren't is.

Some strategies require you to not move for optimal results. Honestly there's kind of a problem with the game when it's hard for your detection to tell the difference between AFK and "optimal strategy".

 

Frost

Slightly below average seeing as there's other frames that can do what he does but better.

The HP damage limit on his Freeze makes his only stun pretty crap and his Avalanche suffers from the same problem Mag's Crush does. Having the freeze on Avalanche last for a few seconds after it ends similar to what Mag's Crush is getting would make it better.

 

Snipers

Didn't we already have Snipers on these hot topics? I don't think our opinions have changed at all on the subject. At least mine haven't.

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Sorry, but i no longer play against enemies below level 20, in that rainbow world, yes, all you said is true.

I apologize for transgressing on your transcendent wisdom then. I shall return to my rainbow world of T4 survival runs, happily skipping along for an hour, waving around my Vectis as it fires party streamers with 20k damage each shot, as I run around in circles in my Limbo bubble, happily bursting into laughter at each enemy that walks into my bubble, staggering them, while I do an extra 200% damage to them. Meanwhile, I laugh gaily as my friendly Trinity runs around us all, giving us invulnerability from damage for 30 seconds, every 32 seconds.

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-- Is 2 minutes enough for AFK timer to kick in? --

Yes!

 

-- Should AFK players get nothing? --

Yes!

 

-- Which of Frost's abilities could use some love and what do you think of Frost overall? --

I think his first and second ability need some love but I have no real opinion on Frost overall since I do not play him.

 

-- Sniper Rifles compared to other weapons. --

Definitely weaker. Their often higher base damage cannot match the raw firing speed of most primaries, so they are by default weaker. I use Lanka on some rare occasions but that is only for fun and not when being serious. 

 

-- Should more Sniper Rifles be added to the game? --

No. Show us that you take this "Year of Quality"  seriously by start fixing the things we have rather than adding new crap. 

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With AFK players,  I think it could be handled based on how you've joined the party with a person. If you're playing in a pre-made group of friends, if someone has to go AFK most of the time everyone is okay with it and can handle what is going on until they get back. In this situation, I think the need for punishment via rewards isn't quite as necessary. But, when you're running public matches and getting partied up with random people, you often get people who are just there to try and mooch, who just afk from start to finish without saying anything. I think in that situation, when your group is random public, AFK players should face some penalties to rewards for not participating.

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AFK System

 

If a vote system is implemented (to ask the party whether or not they think the person is actually trying to sit this one out) as suggested in the main post (but oddly not in the poll), then I'd be fine with it remaining presently at 1 minute. If not, 2 minutes sounds fair to me - any longer and you may as well not have an AFK system at all, since non-Endless missions run shorter than that despite being the most frequent offenders.

At present, it seems too restrictive (when it's relevant), treating the person who took a second to warn us he had to run to put a fire out as equally deviant as the guy who clicked on the Alert and let the team collect the reward for him. I've had situations where I had to step away to use the restroom, take out the trash, or pull something out of the oven during a Defense with some clan mates, and not gotten any rewards despite only being away for one wave of a twenty or thirty wave run.

 

Frost

 

So, remember that first time Frost was put up for revision, and a Dev Workshop was put up explaining all the changes coming to him? Snow Globe was nerfed, Avalanche buffed, and Freeze was "Codenamed Ice Blast internally".

Well, up until Freeze became an AoE, most players have been hung up on that "Comparable to Fireball" promise that was never delivered (literally just a damage buff). It's always had an issue with how accurate it needs to be to affect a target, which has never worked well with its travel time and (at the time) lack of AoE. Now it has AoE, but that only deals partial damage and slow, still having zero forgiveness if it needs to be used as a hard CC. To top it off, it also has a damage cap on the actual freeze, which makes it nigh useless by comparison to just knocking the target down, like half of the other 1 skills in the game can.

Meanwhile, Avalanche is just damage at this moment, in spite of freezing targets solid during the cast. Quicker cast than Crush, higher damage than most ultimates, but just damage.

 

To sum up my suggestions quickly:

- Freeze needs the AoE portion of it to freeze targets too, and for the damage cap to be removed.

- Avalanche needs a scaling effect, like a mass version of Freeze's current damage-capped CC that persists after the damage.

- Frost could also use a way to evict foes from his Snow Globe, like a knockback on Ice Wave (since building on Frost's ability to actually freeze foes would make its slow worthless).

 

Snipers

 

To be honest, I have a Snipetron Vandal collecting dust since I picked up Dread and put Shred on my Opticor.

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Sniper Rifles should have an unmoddable 100% crit.  That way they always crit, but never have a chance for a red crit.  Additionally, instead of having a 4x crit headshot multiplier like all other weapons, they should have an 8x multiplier.  Last, all snipers should have at least some Finisher damage.  If you're hit with a sniper round, all the body armor and shields in the world aren't going to save you.  (Of course, the Ballistas shouldn't have the Finisher damage.  it wouldn't be fair to players.)

 

People with high accuracy are the kinds of players that like to use bows and sniper rifles.  My proposed changes would reward them for getting the headshots they generally aim for and make sure that the sniper rifle's damage is viable when compared to top-tier rifles and shotguns.

 

For the AFK system, when the game detects a player it thinks is AFK, it should poll the rest of the players to see if the person is actually not helping.  Sometimes, people have to step away from the computer, especially during long runs.  If the rest of the squad is okay with it, the game should be, too.

 

AFK players shouldn't lose the ability to gain energy.  Even if all they're doing is macro-ing abilities, the rest of the squad might be depending on that person to use the abilities.  Punishing an AFK-er that way punishes the entire squad, which isn't fair to the ones who are actually playing the game.  One example is when Hydroid is using Undertow.  Undertow & Cataclysm is a viable tactic to use for Mobile Defense and Interception, and it's one of the only ways it was possible to beat the Phoenix Escalation.  When trapping enemies like that, it's not possible for the Hydroid player to reset the AFK timer.  Stopping his energy gain from being in the Rift would completely destroy the point of using Hydroid for high-level missions.

 

For Frost, the biggest issue is that you need to give Avalanche some CC.  It's currently almost damage-only, and it does pretty low damage of a pretty bad element.  Let power strength or duration keep the enemies frozen for longer.  That bug was the best thing to happen to Frost in... well, ever.

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The problem I have with the AFK system is that it punishes in the wrong way.

 

By all means the current system is good for punishing the wrong sort of AFK players, ones who set up macros or just sit at the start of the map and don't do anything, but I feel like they hit people who have a real reason to get up off their chair and do something in real life a bit too hard.

 

One solution could be a /afk command

 

You put it in chat, and your Tenno sits and meditates, in this state they are unable to do anything, except for take damage.

 

In this state you are put on a timer, 5 minutes in endless missions and 2 minutes in non endless missions. If the player does not return and re-enter /afk before this time is up, then they are kicked from the game.

This timer would still count down even if they player has died.

 

In addition, this timer would not re-set upon exiting the AFK state, so if you have used 3 minutes of it up going to the bathroom, you had better make your next break less than 2 minutes.

 

Basically, it is a system for people who have a legitimate reason to be AFK to not be punished as harshly for helping to bring in groceries or moving their car.

 

 

As far as Frost goes, he needs something... more... to really feel good.

 

Globe and Ice wave are both in good places, but Avalanche and Freeze could use a bit of love.

 

For avalanche I propose adding a knockback effect to all enemies in the radius of the ability. If you were getting slammed in the face with an avalanche you'd probably get knocked off your feet.

This would give the ability a bit more CC, and would synergise well with snow globe, allowing him to push enemies out of the globe

 

Freeze is an ability that is almost there, it just needs a little bit more oomph to it to make it worth using.

I would say giving it a small debuff (say 25% extra damage taken by target for X seconds) or increasing its AOE would do nicely to make frost a top tier defensive pickup.

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That you would ask questions 1 and 2 is frankly terrifying.

 

Where can those questions go except down? These forums blow up with people claiming the game is ruined and the sky is falling whenever we see patch notes moving us away from those... "playstyles". 

 

Any vote by the forums is going to look exactly what this one looks like already. Then DE is in the terrible position of either "not listening" or having to compromise with botters and farm/grinders who want to do one node over and over and over using the easiest and most boring strategy possible to get rewards ASAP.

 

That Q just shouldn't be asked publicly IMO. It's like asking how hard you should try to stop cheaters or if you should remove exploiters from leaderboards or not. You guys should define AFK and work out these systems internally, then present them to the player base as a constant so we all know where you stand. Involving the community in things like this invites both nonconstructive arguments and defensive entitled responses when people get hit with penalties they didn't understand or didn't know had changed.

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As far as Frost is concerned Ice Wave needs a new augment and Ice Wave Impedance needs to be integrated into the base ability, it should be doing what that augment does from the get go.

 

Freeze is a terrible ability in that it does paltry damage and the freeze effect practically breaks if you sneeze on it. It would be better if Freeze froze enemies within a very tight small radius (aoe) then anyone beyond the freezing radius but still in range could be chilled. Freeze should only break once a certain (reasonable i.e; 55% of current health) damage threshold was passed or its duration runs out.

 

Snowglobe is a decent skill, its always been the only decent ability Frost has ever had; I wish it was decided whether or not Snowglobe was affected by either duration or health alone because both make this ability tedious to use at times, but overall its in an "ok" place.

 

Avalanche doesn't necessarily need massive amounts of damage to be a viable ultimate ability. Some time ago Avalanche was bugged so that when certain mods were equipped it would freeze enemies over a large range for an extended period of time then deal damage and unfreeze them; unlike where it now freezes enemies for a split second then unfreezes them dealing damage. Avalanche could freeze enemies for a certain period of time and significantly reduce their armor for that time, once the enemies take a certain % of health damage or the freeze duration runs out they are thawed but chilled(slowed) for a short time. 

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I am just saying that the AFK system is suppose to stop people from joining games and doing nothing and getting rewarded.(Like in invasions)

 

1-2mins is plenty of time to be considered afk but how is a penalty on energy suppose to do anything if they are "not playing". If it is an anti farm/macro tactic then you should call it something else.

 

For the snipers I would prefer if it had its own set of mods instead of sharing rifle mods.

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Avalanche, as-is, is buggy/weak/worthless. The freezing part happens before the damage, so all of the enemies you just froze immediately unfreeze. There's no real point to freezing them in this fashion. The other stats on avalanche seem to suffer in exchange for the boon of freezing enemies, but as it doesn't actually freeze them(as stated), that ultimately is just kind of a sucky ult. If a frost is using avalanche, in 9 out of 10 cases, he's wasting energy, and you should yell at him.

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Everyone hates AFK people ingame. So do I. Sometimes when I'm playing with friends, someone goes away for more than 2 minutes to take a crap or eat lunch. No one in our group cares about him being AFK. Maybe a setting that turns off punishing AFKs in private games with friends?

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About Sniper rifles, well i see two problems, first the scope, in lanka or vectis really sucks too many datails and useless numbers and just one tipe of zoom, but the worst problem is the low capacity of crowd control, i my opinion the best option is give sniper rifles innate puncture damage, and some speed buff, like an automatic rifle
And a big buff to lanka, its a rank 7 weapon and have, travel time, low damage, and low charge time, opticor have 2.5 more damage, splash damage, is a hitscan and have a fast charge time, whit these point there is not reason to use lanka.

Maybe adding especial bullets, like explosive bullets or smoke bullets

Or do special sniper maps.

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As a s dedicated Frost user, I can tell the following:

His other skills are need some work, but Snowglobe is Frost's bread and butter. Currently Snowglobe is extremely overpowered at low and midlvl and performs somewhat ok at higher lvls and drastically underperforming at endgame. There is a very simple way to fix it - make snowglobe health based not on damage, but on hits - this way it will be equally useful on any level.

The other skills could use some change too: Freeze - it should freeze for 3 seconds completely, without damage unfreezing target, and only after 3 seconds have passed the target can-be un-frozen by damage (or stay frozen for 5 more seconds), but even after un-frozen wlll have a cold proc. It also quite hard to land a freeze on randomly moving target due to it's small hitbox and slow travel time.

Ice wave - should apply a Freeze effect without base 3 freeze seconds bonus described above.

Avalanche - should apply a Freeze effect with 3 freeze seconds bonus described above. Actually it worked that way for a short period of time but was "fixed" back into another boring nuke skill.

 

 

And a big buff to lanka, its a rank 7 weapon and have, travel time, low damage, and low charge time, opticor have 2.5 more damage, splash damage, is a hitscan and have a fast charge time, whit these point there is not reason to use lanka.

 

Very true, sadly.

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Frost

Freeze and Avalanche could use a buff, it doesnt have to be dmg but more CC. He is a cold frame, give him some more and durable cold procs.

As a side note and I know its too much to ask, Frost could have a passive ability or an augment mod that slow enemies down like coolant leak.

Snipers

They seem to be a bit out of place with the current game mechanics and playstyles. Why use a sniper if I can do the same with a soma prime?

My idea to make snipers useful is create an exclusive Sniper Warframe that allow us add useful mechanics to our snipers. This mechanics, as example, could be explosive bullets after getting a head shot, innate punch trough, bullet trails with elemental DoT, remote controlled bullet? The sky is the limit!

Also, they need variable zoom function.

AFK

Why people started macroing and afking? Why they do it? Is it because the game allows them to do that? Is it because the time they need to gather and level what they have is too much?

Personally I think the AFK system shouldnt exist if the game gave us less grind and more fair rewards. The grind involved in maxing a legendary mod is too much, the time needed to gather all those mods and credits is huge. Thats a reason to search for better and faster methods of grinding.

If the game had less grind and balanced better rewards maybe the afk system wouldnt be necessary. Also, mods like greedy pull and pilfering swarm help the afk behavior.

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Sniper Rifles

Sniper rifles are weaker for the most part due to the lack of ability to deal with crowds, while not dealing enough single target damage to be considered for the role of focusing on heavy units. They also in general require more focus to use, which bothers players enough to opt for similarly functional but easier to use alternatives instead.

 

I would also like to suggest a buff to automatic secondary SMGs similar to Cestra, Furis, and Viper. Perhaps a new stat which determines a percent chance as to whether or not ammo is consumed per round fired. That should help with their general inefficiency.

 

Frost

I'm satisfied with Ice Wave and Snow Globe, however a lot is to be desired in Freeze. Although Avalanche is also slower and less helpful compared to similar radial damage abilities, I do not think it would be wise to add yet another damage + stun infinite target radial to the game through this warframe.

 

New PvP mode

I'm all for it so long as balance is achieved and maintained. Keep everything standard and balanced, and build from there. The weapons seem fine. As for Warframe PvP balance, that will definitely be more difficult.

 

AFK Farming Prevention

Your implementation of the restrictions for AFK players are okay, but you wouldn't need to go so far if you didn't allow us players to stack corrupted mods in the first place. We already have an efficiency cap, but it doesn't matter when using Blind Rage. Have you considered a range or target cap?

 

Still, there is the remaining problem of building around your best ability. Even with such caps, if the ability is the best ability in the kit, players will use it the most. If said ability also performs damage, stun, and other support better than the other abilities in the kit, players will use nothing but this one ability. Please consider shifting stats around in the kit, with priority on more difficult and limited abilities. You wouldn't care to aim with Slash Dash or Shuriken to hit one target when there's the option to press 4 and do the same task way better and more efficiently.

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