A Theory On The Lotus, Stalker, Tenshin, Corpus Age, And The Orokin (Copypaste From Another Thread)

[Morec0]

Original thread: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/417900-lotus-an-orokin/#entry4636214

 

My own thoughts on the Orokin: it's' just what humanity was calling themselves at that time. If I was then, I'd be Orokin. If you were then, you'd be Orokin. It was a great age of prosperity, humanity united under singular Emperors, chances are they'd call themselves such.

 

"But we slaughtered the Orokin! Stalker's Codex says so! So if everyone was Orokin did we kill civilians too?"

 

Stalker's Codex never says the word "Orokin" - he only says Emperors. I think who the Tenno targeted were the rulers, the higher-ups, the people who had made the big calls and were responsible for the creation of things like them, the Infested, and other such powerful tools. The Emperors, scientists like Davis, possibly military leaders, everyone who would have been able to keep the Empire in order. Hence, the empire fell, their technology was lost, Origin turned into something of a "dark age".

 

As for Lotus' "is she an A.I.?" bit, I'm not going to argue what some people have - "that she has emotion! she has to be a living creature!" because ORDIS shows Emotion and he's a machine too! Simaris shows emotion! I think if Lotus IS an A.I. she was one designed to act a mother figure to the Tenno, but that's besides the point at this juncture. I'm going to argue she may be a living creature because she seems to have lost some of her memories, a trait associated with the Cryosleep. Why would an A.I. need to go into cryosleep?

 

Now, normally I'd say this is a moot point, but one of the ways that DE described Tenshin as being a figure who "didn't go into Cryosleep with the Tenno" - and he looks very much the same as the Lotus - albeit much older - so I think the two are linked in some fashion. What Tenshin is remains to be seen, and that may change anything, but given his elder appearance and fact he didn't sleep with the Tenno, it's entirely possible he himself is similar to the Lotus, a living creature.

 

"But... shouldn't he be dead?" NOW we come to an interesting point I thought of....

 

Consider the fact that Darvo is "105 years old!", and that age is apparently young enough that he's something of a rebellious teenager to his dad... HOW ANCIENT IS HIS DAD? As medical technology progresses, people can live for longer and longer and become older and older. Multiply that trend by a few millennium and...

 

Well, here's the interesting bit: where did that technology come from? Well, it's the Corpus, where do you think?

 

Now, reconsider what I said above "a dark age" spawned by our actions. Technology destroy, the people who would have known how to make it slaughtered. Only the faintest memory of how it works... Does Frohd Bek always sound so sickly? What if that's not just because they were running out of good voice actors? What if that's intentional?

 

He sounds that way because he's basically on old, Orokin life support, malfunctioning and salvaged and barely able to keep himself alive.

 

BECAUSE HE IS ANCIENT. I propose he, and other of the older Corpus, were alive during the Orokin Era, and they were among the first to crawl up to the wreckage of the empire and try to rebuild it as the Corpus. That would explain "betrayers", but would ALSO explain Frohd hesitation to even want to confront us - "the Tenno are TOO dangerous", he's not just basing that on the present but PAST EXEPRIENCES AS WELL.

 

Hell, we already KNOW something like the Corpus existed in the Orokin Era because of the Mara Detron! SO that lends credibility as well!

 

For figures that were closer to us, figures that would have been higher up but sided with us during the Orokin assassinations, they would have had access to the highest-end technology of the time but wouldn't have been punished for it. Tenshin has been able to survive all this while as a living creature BECAUSE HE IS VIRTUALLY IMMORTAL because of that medical tech. Stalker too, to some degree - although, whatever he did to himself to make himself be able to stand up to us may also have something to do with that.

 

This is the tinfoiliest of tinfoil hats thus far, but something about it feels right.

[GunDownGrace]

similar to the lotus..much older,antagonist...

 

i hope they didnt turn janus into a guy X.X

[Morec0]

similar to the lotus..much older,antagonist...

 

i hope they didnt turn janus into a guy X.X

 

Who? Tenshin? Who said he was an antagonist? I think he's just a man with a different view.

 

And I don't think Janus be a character, it's just the name of Vor's void key - perhaps class or make. Best theory I saw about it was that it was a Master Key to the Void.

[(PSN)TheArrowOfGod]

Lotus isn't AI they're trying to give her a body like the people in the relays soon

[Morec0]

Lotus isn't AI they're trying to give her a body like the people in the relays soon

 

I'm starting to agree, but, to play Devil's advocate: could be a robotic body.

[AM-Bunny]

Upon inspection of Vay Hek (as well as other Grineer) he seems to be little more than a head with a mechanical body. Perhaps there's a heart somewhere in there? Nonetheless, he is 90% machine.

 

If the braindead Grineer are able to make fully functional robot bodies, I find it highly likely that Corpus are also mechanically augmented, but in a way that preserves their appearances. I've always felt that Corpus are more like synthetic humans like Bishop from Alien. But then, perhaps this technology was created by the Orokin...

 

As far as Orokin being regular humans, I'm with you 100% on that one.

 

I used to think that Lotus was an AI, but learning that she will be inhabiting the relays I find that increasingly unlikely.

[meIody-]

Who? Tenshin? Who said he was an antagonist? I think he's just a man with a different view.

 

And I don't think Janus be a character, it's just the name of Vor's void key - perhaps class or make. Best theory I saw about it was that it was a Master Key to the Void.

But with how much it warped Vor's mind, who are we to say it isn't sentient and very much alive?

 

I know the answer. The answer is, "Not DE".

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

May I also add that I believe the Grineer Queens are likely from the Orokin Era, if not close descendents of people from it? That's why they warned Vor not to free us, and I think that's also why some of the Grineer seem to know mre about us than we do; the queens told them about us and about the Lotus.

[Katinka]

Ordis has memory loss too.  (For the record, I don't think Lotus is an AI.)

 

I also believe that the Queens probably know A LOT more than we might think.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Katinka

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

But with how much it warped Vor's mind, who are we to say it isn't sentient and very much alive?

 

I know the answer. The answer is, "Not DE".

I don't think Vor's mind has been warped as much as everyone else seems to. It seems that the key did, in fact, fulfil a primary objective of Vor and his people: granting lasting life in a world where his people degenerate and die rapidly. That's why, after the Rebirth, he was able to bring so many Grineer willingly to the Void.

[Morec0]

But with how much it warped Vor's mind, who are we to say it isn't sentient and very much alive?

 

I know the answer. The answer is, "Not DE".

 

We can't say for sure, but I still find it unlikely. Maybe you should have asked Cordylon something about that instead of focusing on "robot dating"?

 

May I also add that I believe the Grineer Queens are likely from the Orokin Era, if not close descendents of people from it? That's why they warned Vor not to free us, and I think that's also why some of the Grineer seem to know mre about us than we do; the queens told them about us and about the Lotus.

 

THIS FALLS IN LINE WITH MY THEORY PERFECTLY! HOOOOLLYYY SHIIIIIIT!

 

It upsets me because it kinda ruins my theory that the Queens are genetic freaks held together with augmentations... But maybe they still could be? I can only hope.

[meIody-]

Upon inspection of Vay Hek (as well as other Grineer) he seems to be little more than a head with a mechanical body. Perhaps there's a heart somewhere in there? Nonetheless, he is 90% machine.

 

If the braindead Grineer are able to make fully functional robot bodies, I find it highly likely that Corpus are also mechanically augmented, but in a way that preserves their appearances. I've always felt that Corpus are more like synthetic humans like Bishop from Alien. But then, perhaps this technology was created by the Orokin...

 

As far as Orokin being regular humans, I'm with you 100% on that one.

 

I used to think that Lotus was an AI, but learning that she will be inhabiting the relays I find that increasingly unlikely.

[Morec0]

Ordis has memory loss too.  (For the record, I don't think Lotus is an AI.)

 

I also believe that the Queens probably know A LOT more than we might think.

 

Ordis was also torn apart and practically dissected by the Grineer in the area. His "misplaced memories" might be more due to components being stolen him him being cracked.

 

 

I don't think Vor's mind has been warped as much as everyone else seems to. It seems that the key did, in fact, fulfil a primary objective of Vor and his people: granting lasting life in a world where his people degenerate and die rapidly. That's why, after the Rebirth, he was able to bring so many Grineer willingly to the Void.

 

^ I think he went a LITTLE nuts, but for the most part he still seems as sane as he was in Real Space before his death. Even IF he has come down with a bad case of Third Person Identification.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Morec0

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

We can't say for sure, but I still find it unlikely. Maybe you should have asked Cordylon something about that instead of focusing on "robot dating"?

 

 

THIS FALLS IN LINE WITH MY THEORY PERFECTLY! HOOOOLLYYY SHIIIIIIT!

 

It upsets me because it kinda ruins my theory that the Queens are genetic freaks held together with augmentations... But maybe they still could be? I can only hope.

They likely didn't have access to the resources people like Frohd Bek did, assuming he was rich since before the fall, so I think it's quite possible that they used augmentations instead of whatever life support Bek's on.

[Blackout751]

Original thread: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/417900-lotus-an-orokin/#entry4636214

 

Hell, we already KNOW something like the Corpus existed in the Orokin Era because of the Mara Detron! SO that lends credibility as well!

 

I've just got one thing to add. The origins of the Corpus, according to the Mara Detron's description and your theory, would be that they started out as smugglers of some kind and gradually formed into one conglomerate or corporation.

[Morec0]

I've just got one thing to add. The origins of the Corpus, according to the Mara Detron's description and your theory, would be that they started out as smugglers of some kind and gradually formed into one conglomerate or corporation.

 

*nods* And, as Smugglers, they might have had been able to hold onto a little of the precious high-end Orokin tech through the Tenno purge. They may not have known how to use it properly due to class division, but the fact of the matter being they'd have had it - and likely had past experience with it - would speak volumes.

[Urlan]

I think that it would make sense for the Grineer to be decended from the zero tech soldiers mentioned in Mag Prime's codex entry since similar to the warframes' their armor and weapons seem to be at least partially techno-organic in origin. I like to think that they are using flawed cloning mainly because the cloning process that is being used is the one for our Kubrow. This would make Tyl Regor's work at stabilizing the genetic templates and cloning process to more of a power altering event than it already is. Also, I want to be able to steal Tyl Regor's work to use on my Kubrow so I might be biased :)

 

The Corpus might have been lowering caste Orokin society workers, merchants,  or scientists having survived on the edges of the Orokin Sol Empire, they might have developed their own social order and society that venerates profit and Orokin Tech going back to R+D type origins.

 

The Stalker seems to be using Void powers so that seems to suggest that all void exposed humans became Tenno but some were put into lower groups that did more menial tasks. The Stalker seems to have a modified Excalibur warframe suit but we can't be sure he had access to those before or after the fall. He may have modified himself and equiped himself for his brand of vengence by allying himself to the survivors of the Empire as both a way of perserving what was and getting even with any of us that show our faces.

 

This seems like an interesting area of thinking on the Lore.

[SilverZs]

Well something to note.... the infested (Technocyte virus) existed before the Orokin Era started.

[Morec0]

Well something to note.... the infested (Technocyte virus) existed before the Orokin Era started.

 

Not sure where you're going with this, doesn't contradict anything I said. Orokin simply weaponized it to a degree thus unseen - turning their people (likely the lowest class) into living weapons that the Sentients couldn't "turn... against us".

[WERElektro]

Forgive me, I haven't rad the whole thread, Just wanna say that I'd also really like to know more about lifespans.

 

Cordylon Said that grineer lifespans only last a few years... now a "few" years is relative.

And what about the corpus? How do their ranks influence their lifespans.

 

Btw.. could you provide a picture of tenshin? i think I haven't seen him yet.

[Morec0]

Forgive me, I haven't rad the whole thread, Just wanna say that I'd also really like to know more about lifespans.

 

Cordylon Said that grineer lifespans only last a few years... now a "few" years is relative.

And what about the corpus? How do their ranks influence their lifespans.

 

Btw.. could you provide a picture of tenshin? i think I haven't seen him yet.

 

Indeed. Would be something to ask Cordylon (I'd do it myself, but I've already put out like 5 feelers into the current pot)

 

 

He's called Teshin here, but I do recall him being called "Tenshin" in the TennoLive stream. I may have been mistaken, but I'm thinkin' he's got a renamed since then.

[WERElektro]

Indeed. Would be something to ask Cordylon (I'd do it myself, but I've already put out like 5 feelers into the current pot)

 

 

He's called Teshin here, but I do recall him being called "Tenshin" in the TennoLive stream. I may have been mistaken, but I'm thinkin' he's got a renamed since then.

 

Ah, Thank you!

 

I'd also ask, but instead of answering serious, interesting questions, they answer questions like "What side is john prodman on?". -_- srsly?

[AM-Bunny]

Indeed. Would be something to ask Cordylon (I'd do it myself, but I've already put out like 5 feelers into the current pot)

 

 

He's called Teshin here, but I do recall him being called "Tenshin" in the TennoLive stream. I may have been mistaken, but I'm thinkin' he's got a renamed since then.

 

Nah, pretty sure it's Teshin. The devs kept getting his name wrong in the devstream they were talking about him. At first they called him "Tenzan" then "Tenshin" and they even joked about how they couldn't remember it. I still don't think I've heard one of them say Baro Ki'Teer.

[Morec0]

Ah, Thank you!

 

I'd also ask, but instead of answering serious, interesting questions, they answer questions like "What side is john prodman on?". -_- srsly?

 

They answered my serious question of "whose that little guy who handles the medallions for Cephalon Suda?", and from that we learned a bit about Cephalon capabilities. But, still, it's always worse to not ask than it is to ask.

 

Nah, pretty sure it's Teshin. The devs kept getting his name wrong in the devstream they were talking about him. At first they called him "Tenzan" then "Tenshin" and they even joked about how they couldn't remember it. I still don't think I've heard one of them say Baro Ki'Teer.

 

Damn, that's significantlyless awesome if it is. For a moment I thought there was something name theming going on with: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenshin_Sh%C5%8Dden_Katori_Shint%C5%8D-ry%C5%AB

[arch111]

As for Corpus age. Something Darvo said is stuck in my mind.

He says that his dad breathes gas. Take that and add the Gas City. Then add the crewmen suits.

What if the Corpus need this gas to function and sustain themselves?

I like the theories here, but I am still doubtful that Lotus is human. Cyborg maby.