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Math On Why The Synoid Gammacor Is Massively Nerfed

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Uh that's not the best build... Remove Magnum Force and add Lethal Torrent...you'll increase Accuracy, Status Chance, Damage per bullet, burst DPS, and sustained DPS.

 

Synoid Gammacor doesn't have to be the best gun at everything, it still holds its niche of having pinpoint accuracy, high burst DPS, and energy restoring proc. It also kills weaker enemies very well because of it's 150 magazine size. Vaykor Marelok and Rakta ballistica do high damage per shot, which is better for end game content.

 

Accuracy doesn't matter with the SG as it is a beam weapon which is why Magnum Force is used. Lethal Torrent adds in the problem of going through ammo too damn fast. It bumps the fire rate up to 24 and makes you burn through a magazine in 6.25 seconds and your whole ammo capacity in 31 seconds with continuous fire. That is far to fast to find ammo enough to keep up a continuous stream of fire with the weapon if needed even with the pistol ammo mutation mod in it.

 

Again, why do that when I can easily select many other weapons which CAN maintain a continuous fire rate and out dps the SG? You seem to have a failure of comprehension here. Why would anyone select a weapon that is inferior in that regards? With the SG you either mod it to maintain near continuous fire rate but suck on DPS, or bump the dps without having continuous fire rate. No matter what you choose there are weapon that can out dps it while maintaining continuous fire rate.

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Okay, lets do a better comparison then? Soma P versus SG without primed mods which not everyone has.

 

http://warframe-builder.com/Primary_Weapons/Builder/Soma_prime/t_30_22233220_132-2-5-133-4-5-134-7-4-137-1-10-140-5-5-141-3-5-150-0-10-159-6-5_150-8-137-7-132-8-141-6-133-6-140-5-159-5-134-10/en/2-0-65/0

 

26K burst, 21K sustained. Can fire for 10.67 seconds per magazine and has 5 magazines. Reload is longer at 3, but that is already factored into the sustain dps. So the Soma P with this build can fire continuously for 61.35 seconds. 1 full minute is a good time to find ammo drops enough to maintain fire with a nekros in the group. That is comparable to what the old SG was when modded out for fire rate which made it have a 6.44 fire rate with 75 magazine and could fire for 11.65 seconds. Basically a second longer.

 

The SG proposed by ZechsX18999 is the following.

 

http://warframe-builder.com/Secondary_Weapons/Builder/Synoid_Gammacor/t_30_33302220_193-5-5-195-0-5-198-3-5-202-2-5-204-4-10-206-6-5-209-1-5-210-7-5_195-6-209-6-202-6-198-9-204-7-193-6-206-6-210-9/en/3-0-55/

 

Which is 32K burst, and 24K sustain. The problem is the ammo consumption still. 24 fire rate with 150 magazine and 4 magazines means 6.25 seconds to burn through each magazine and a total of 31 seconds of continuous fire. That is half the time of continuous fire rate of the Soma P and not even double the DPS to make up for that. Which makes the effect dps of the weapon in comparison to the Soma P build even crappier. One can drop the Lethal Torrent from the build, but there isn't really anything one can add for more dps beyond another elemental mod or Magnum Force. Either of which brings the continuous fire rate closer to the Soma P, although still trailing, while having far worse DPS as I showed in the previously linked build.

 

So why the HELL would you bring an SG to end game content when it is clearly inferior to the Soma P build I just listed? Let alone something I could out for any of the other currently viable top end game weapons people are using?

 

This is why I made the original post in the first place. SG went from unarguably the best weapon to not a viable end game weapon anymore with the nerf. It was TOO MUCH. I am not asking for DE to put it back to what it was before the nerf. I am asking DE to look at the math and numbers and put the SG back into viability as an end game weapon in competition to what is already considered end game weapons.

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If you have to use ammo mutation to get a gun to function, it's a crap gun.

Rakta Ballistca and Vaykor Marelok are now superior weapons.

Main reason I used Synoid Gammacor so much was because I didn't have to reload every 3 seconds. This game is so god damn reload heavy.

 

LOLOLOLOLOL

 

Wow i just busted out laughing, about a month ago the Rakta was regarded as the worst of the syndicate weapons, even worse than the regular ballistica, now you're saying its better than the Sgammacor. This is priceless how the tables have turned.

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Several things. First off, if you know that the fire rate mods for secondaries increase dps a lot (more than pretty much any other secondary mod due to how the mods for secondaries are structured) then you wouldn't be making the arguments you are.

 

There is a reason why no one uses the Twin Vipers, AFuris/Dex Furis, Dual Cestas, and other inefficient ammo guns for end game content currently. Because the most effective method of bumping up dps for secondaries for the most part is through the first rate mods. Specifically Lethal Torrent and Anemic Agility. Using those mods on any secondary weapon which has a base fire rate that consumes an entire magazine in 10 seconds or less right now makes that weapon worthless. No one uses those weapons for anything other than mastery fodder and for good reason.

 

Here is an example build of a Dex Furis.

 

http://warframe-builder.com/Secondary_Weapons/Builder/Dex_furis/t_30_30000000_193-5-5-195-0-5-200-7-5-204-6-10-206-3-5-209-1-5-404-4-5-487-2-10_195-6-209-11-487-16-206-11-404-9-193-11-204-14-200-9/en/3-0-43

 

36K burst dps puts it above all primaries. The theoretical sustained dps puts it above most of the "best tier" primaries as well. So why doesn't everyone run around with Dex Furis late game? Because you can only fire it for less than 2 seconds and you are out of ammo. To mod it a different way so that the ammo problem isn't as drastic a problem drops the DPS for the weapon into useless territory because other true end game weapons outclass it. Here is modding it so that the ammo consumption isn't nearly as drastic a problem as you can now fire the weapon for almost 10 seconds before running out of ammo on a single magazine.

 

http://warframe-builder.com/Secondary_Weapons/Builder/Dex_furis/t_30_30000000_193-5-5-195-0-5-196-3-5-204-6-10-209-1-5-408-7-5-452-4-5-487-2-10_195-6-209-11-487-16-196-11-452-11-193-11-204-14-408-9/en/3-0-4

 

But check out the dps numbers. Drops from 36K to 8K. Sure you can fire all you want now and not nearly have to worry about ammo, but you aren't going to be kill stuff. Which therein lies the next problem. With 8K dps it may take up to 4 times more ammo to take down a target since you deal 4x less dps. So while you can shoot longer, you need more shots to take out high level content. Which means you may still eventually run into ammo problems. On top of that, since it takes more shots to kill a target, that means targets live longer and can have more shots to kill YOU.

 

There is a reason those guns are NEVER used in late game content currently. They suck compared to better guns.

 

The SG is now in that same category. Sure you can mod it to do high dps, but you run out of ammo so fast it can't be used on more than a few targets. If you don't mod it to use fire rate mods for raw dps output, then the dps output it has without fire rate mods is junk.

 

One last thing, you don't really believe a prime pistol ammo mutation mod solves the problem do you? Because it doesn't. Regular pistol ammo mutation mod max converts 80% and primed only changes that to 100% maxed. What does that mean? It means for ammo drops, which come as 10 or 20 rounds depending on the ammo type will be converted at either 8/16 or 10/20. The extra 4 rounds of ammo you get max from the conversion doesn't mean squat to maintaining ammo for the weapon. I ran with a pistol ammo mod along with a greedy mag, nekros, and ogris setup into a T4S game and it doesn't matter. Even with pistol scav on, one has to use ammo restore gear on top of that to even begin to maintain a modicum of consistent fire rate needed for 30+ minutes in a T4S. Which doing all that with pistol scav, ammo mutation, and ammo restores drops your potential dps that could be had with a weapon that doesn't require any of that.

 

As to why no one cries over the other bad ammo inefficient guns, it is because that is how those guns were introduced to the game. It's completely different to have a gun perform one way and be change so drastically that the performance of the weapon is completely different. I'm fine with the Dex Furis, Twin Viper guns in the game. There are already plenty of those style guns and we don't need more.

I don't understand you. You added Creeping Bullseye? Now you're just putting anything for a lower DPS.

The point is to increase AMMO ECONOMY, not time it takes to kill stuff. The way to do that is to maximize damage per ammo. 

Dex Furis

24k DPS with better ammo economy.

While it is objectively worse than your 38k, it can actually keep firing for twice as long. That's 1.5x more enemies dead.

 

And yes. Ammo Mutation does decrease DPS. But the point of a nerf is so that the weapon is not insane anymore.

Consensus shows that Synoid Gammacor needed a nerf. It got one. I'm just arguing that it really isn't as terrible as people make it seem.

 

Nobody argues that the damage is not enough (I think/hope). They argue it doesn't keep up enough damage for the effort and other mods it takes to manage ammo.

7.5x ammo is quite a bit. But it's definitely manageable.

 

You seem like never used any "beam" weapon in this game as they do not do hitscan damage

Beam extends and actualy you need to spent fair amount of ammo to hit anything past point blank

1/2

35 minutes in survival you need full mag to down one Ancient healer eximus (well with magnum force you can down two)

And not everyone have primed pistol mutation / not mentioning needing to put another forma just to not fixing ammo problem at all as conversion is still too weak and will not keep up after 40 min mark (thats considering you will run point blank most of the time to save up ammo)

I like how everyone slaps primed stuff on weapon in weapon builder site and use it as argument its still powerfull enough

With primed mods even those Lato will take a cut

Yes. You do. But beam weapons are mean for point blank range, when they're right up close to you (as with all automatic guns).

There is no full-automatic sniper. Even mid-range guns are better semi-auto (Latron P/W, etc.)

 

As for the Primed mods stuff: If you think adding an extra forma is too much, then you're not building for end-game. If you're not using every mod to its high potential, you're engineering a worse weapon.

 

Nobody ever complains about an Unranked Soma Prime being weak (It really is. DPS is worse than Karak.) If you're not willing to go the entire distance and max everything before checking viability, your feedback is worthless.

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"7.5x ammo is quite a bit. But it's definitely manageable."

It isnt, not without ammo and scavenger mod.

 

Thats even worse than a fricking amprex in terns of ammo economy and the amprex has chainshot.

Anyway, what the heck is wrong with you people?

 

Are you going to defend a S#&$ty balance decision to death? This weapon sucks now and there isnt a single argument on the planet that changes that fact.

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"7.5x ammo is quite a bit. But it's definitely manageable."

It isnt, not without ammo and scavenger mod.

 

Thats even worse than a fricking amprex in terns of ammo economy and the amprex has chainshot.

Anyway, what the heck is wrong with you people?

 

Are you going to defend a S#&$ty balance decision to death? This weapon sucks now and there isnt a single argument on the planet that changes that fact.

Of course. But an ammo mod makes it just fine.

 

It was the perfect balance decision. No change in actual damage in high levels. Just need to be a bit more careful with ammo.

Like automatic weapons should require you to do. -.-

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"7.5x ammo is quite a bit. But it's definitely manageable."

It isnt, not without ammo and scavenger mod

 

....And anybody who seriously considers bringing pistol ammo scavenger to high level gameplay in the void (which is where most of the high level games happen) doesn't understand that corrosive projection is not optional.

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If they lower that stupidly high armor scaling in end game content than CP would not be NEEDED for longer runs
But as it stands now its either 4x CP or having only 1/10 of dps most of the time

So anyone suggesting to bring Ammo scavenger obviously never been there (oh yes you can theoreticaly run all tissis for dealing with armor, still it would cut your aviable dps down considerably

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So anyone suggesting to bring Ammo scavenger obviously never been there (oh yes you can theoretically run all tissis for dealing with armor, still it would cut your aviable dps down considerably

Ammo scavenger is a non-viable option, if trying to use corrosive instead.

 

If you're dealing with high level armor values (over 1000) it takes many application of corrosive to provide a benefit. Armor and health scale so aggressively past 60 that numerous application of corrosive proc still leaves the NPCs with enough armor to shrug of the damage your doing. 

 

If an NPC has 1000 armor, it would take at least 5-7 application of corrosive to stats seeing your damage numbers go up meaningfully. If an NPC has 10000 it would take 10-15 application ( or the full 20 to just strip it to a red bar) for the benefit to start kicking in.

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When there's one weapon in the game that makes all other weapons of its class practically obsolete, something is wrong and needs to be dealt with. That's what they've done with S.Gammacor. It still melts faces, but it no longer is the only "viable" secondary weapon in the game.

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When there's one weapon in the game that makes all other weapons of its class practically obsolete, something is wrong and needs to be dealt with. That's what they've done with S.Gammacor. It still melts faces, but it no longer is the only "viable" secondary weapon in the game.

Did it need a nerf, yes. The one it got, however, locked it as a low level NPCs novelty weapon. Same as Kohmak.

 

NPCs bellow level 20 have almost no heath: an Akjagara, Telos, Brakk, and a bunch of other weapons, that could make a good sized list, would have nearly identical Time to kill on a heavy gunner or anything else. This does not change much unit  NPCs hit near 35, Synoid has no real advantage and just burns ammo.

 

After level 35 it will become painfully apparent just how bad Synoid's ammo problems are. It's not even top tier burst, as that spot is owned by Brakk, and Brakk will not run out of ammo either (exaggeration, it takes very high level NPCs for ammo to be an issue).

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Its overnerfed now, nice one, OP.

 

Brakk and vakyo also melt enemies, even on higher distance and with a possible 100% proc, why was range-limtied synoid anywhere unbalanced? Upping its ammo consumption by x3 would have been enough.

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/thread.

Never ran out of ammo once

lets see 40 mins + where proper higher tier enemies spawn, 20 mins is easy enough to get to and is hardly called higher tier game play. Seriously even ceres has higher lvl mobs than 20 mins. Highest in that video was like what?  27? Thats hardly even considered mid lvl.  Besides if your AOE blast from the syndicate can kill everything you know its not even close to being a proper late game weapon

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Never ran out of ammo once

Was the topic about running out at the 20 minute mark? Had it been that would have been good proof. 

 

Also, one little critique about making videos for proof, show load-out before launch. Not that it makes a difference because it was not in doubt that it could handle sub-level 40 with a primed mutation.

 

It's not an 2nd C rotation weapon. There are far better pistols to use for people that care about their keys.

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Doesnt matter, the proof is people crying that it runs out of ammo in 40 seconds.

Also, my loadout is shown at the end, watch the video next time please

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Doesnt matter, the proof is people crying that it runs out of ammo in 40 seconds.

Also, my loadout is shown at the end, watch the video next time please

The issue is that it has been taken as a endgame gun and been nerfed to the lower middle stages because the ammo consumption makes it near impossible to handle enemies at the higher end without running out. As well as taking its purpose as a beam weapon and turning it into a burst weapon. The DPS has been dropped considerably because of the ammo consumption increase. Next time please read the thread and all of the replies before posting

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Doesn't matter, the proof is people crying that it runs out of ammo in 40 seconds.

Also, my load-out is shown at the end, watch the video next time please

I never said you did not show it, I said show it before launch. Reason being, I do not want to sit there for 20 minutes to see what version of mutation mod you had equipped or if you have maxed ranked damage mods.

 

Your video is not proof about the 40 second thing, because you were not even going past 20 minutes. Sigh, I do not care anymore, If you want a gun that is capped at such low NPCs levels, have fun.

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this is probly a realy old thread but meh i just came back to the game again so yolo i kinda miss my weapon to just run around with a death lazer and have fun with, all the people complaining about balance GO PLAY A PVP GAME. who gives a flying donkey about balance when all you do is fight bots with it.

 

all those people saying it makes the game too easy may i rimind you all of viver and while viver is gon its memory lives on with people doing the same thing even today. its been nerfed into the ground and people still do it :\

 

also may i remind people about vauban making T4 survivals into see how long untill bordom consumes you 

 

the game is easy its never going to be hard no matter what DE add because there IS going to be somone who finds a game breaking strategy / glitch or simply can use there abilitys in a way that make them almost unkillable so... now thats out the way

 

if somthing is overpowered and fun to use then its better than somthing thats overpowered and boring to use so leave the FUN things in the game, i can litteraly list off things that are borderline cheating that have not been fixed and things that are fun get nerfed into the ground?

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I think it helps if you think about the change as a change of the weapon type. By that I mean where the old Gammacor had a damage format similar to semi-auto secondaries like Marelok and Lex, the new Gammacor is more like a machine pistol akin to Furis, Vipers, AkZani, AkSomati, Akstiletto, etc.

 

Or just in terms of syndicate weapons, it was changed from being a contender of the Vaykor Marelok to a contender of the Secura Dual Cestra.

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The Synny was just nerfed too hard, yes you never had to reload and that was bad, but every other kind of viable secondary can sustain itself (mara detron, brakk, rakta ballistica, VAYKOR MARELOK oh boy this thing never runs out of ammo).

they just had to make the weapon not ideal for all firerate mods at once and keep it's normal mag size.

i think a ROF of 6/7 would have been perfect

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I think it helps if you think about the change as a change of the weapon type. By that I mean where the old Gammacor had a damage format similar to semi-auto secondaries like Marelok and Lex, the new Gammacor is more like a machine pistol akin to Furis, Vipers, AkZani, AkSomati, Akstiletto, etc.

 

Or just in terms of syndicate weapons, it was changed from being a contender of the Vaykor Marelok to a contender of the Secura Dual Cestra.

So it was changed form a usable and strong gun to mastery fodder? fair 'nuff

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What you all should be discussing in this thread is why it had to be nerfed to begin with. Balance? Can DE claim it was for that reason when they later released the Atomos, which is basically the same weapon, but with auto-targeting? Hardly. To all of you that liked the Sycor, my advice is to go for the Atomos. For now, it's a nice weapon, but I'm assuming they're going to nerf that too and then release a new sidearm that's OP again.

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